Rocky

Congratulations Twinky!

Thanks Nathan. That comment has some intriguing insight. Would love more if anyone has any.

At the heart of all manipulation is CONTROL. In case the manipulation Victor Wierwille used in his Way Corpse letters isn't 100 percent clear to you, I offer this YT video by Brené Brown.

Indeed. But why?

Do any Greasespotters have any introspective insights on why people, even young children, might be drawn to NPD types?

Since we KNOW... or recognize a consensus that Victor Wierwille was a malignant narcissist, I found this article particularly intriguing. I put it in the OPEN forum because it's not about TWI. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-narcissists-emerge-as-leaders-even-in-childhood/ probably not behind a paywall. Many children choose to follow peers with more narcissistic tendencies—and self-esteem may be part of the complex power dynamics involved Narcissistic leaders both fascinate and repel us. They can be charming, act assertively and articulate visions that may inspire confidence, especially in times of uncertainty. This can attract many followers. In 1931 Sigmund Freud, the father of psychoanalysis, echoed this belief: “[Narcissists] impress others as being ‘personalities’; they are especially suited to act as a support for others, to take on the role of leaders and to give a fresh stimulus to cultural development or to damage the established state of affairs.” But narcissists famously have a dark side as well that includes unethical, autocratic and aggressive behavior. They often stifle collaboration and dismiss expert advice. Given those trade-offs, why do narcissists often end up in positions of leadership, and who is drawn to them? (much more)

Yes. But since I started the thread, I am not bothered about it.

Excellent resource. Thank you. And thank you for making it a gift article.

I did hit the NYTimes paywall. I'm very interested. Thanks.

Somebodies must have been bored this weekend.

Great question(s).

We rejoice with you Joe!

Btw, willingness to be vulnerable (Brené Brown) is an indicator of personal strength rather than shame. THIS video with Steven Hassan is an interview with Nori Muster, author of a Cult Survivor Handbook AND one about children born into cults.

Btw, those letters demonstrate the Victor Wierwille was indeed a cult leader who used (at least) emotional abuse. I am listening to Steven Hassan's most recent YT video. Which includes an interview with Nori Muster, who had been involved in the Krishna cult and wrote a Cult Survivors Handbook.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/cocoon A cocoon is a silky web spun around the larvae of many insects. Caterpillars emerge from their cocoons as beautiful butterflies. The word cocoon can also refer to a form of self-protection for humans. For some people, their house is a cocoon, a cozy retreat from which they can escape the world. They cocoon themselves away for a whole weekend, Thanks waysider for mentioning this notion. In the religious world, some have "retreats." In wayworld, we had "advances." Not that many got the connection with cocooning themselves away. These days I just see it as the contrarian nature of wayworld.

Dr. Steven Hassan, two minute YT video on the subject of whether a person can be HYPNOTIZED without realizing it. This video does NOT comment on Power for Abundant Living; The Way International; Victor Wierwille or Loy Craig Martindale. It DOES, however SUGGEST the practice has been around for decades. I would SUGGEST that if anyone has (unauthorized or authorized) access to PFAL class recordings, it would be very intriguing to have someone like Dr. Hassan listen to those recordings to provide professional assessment thereof.

YIKES! You're still on their mailing list?!

I misunderstood. My apologies.

Nevermind.

A key benefit you will receive by reading these letters: melting the mask off of the face of TWI's founder. I think of a quote from Soren Kierkegaard: Life can only be understood looking backwards; But it must be lived forwards. You'll be able to understand much more about Victor Wierwille and his cult by reading these letters.

YIKES! What a thought. We don't grow without enduring difficult times, as I now understand it.

Oh the irony! In the late 1980s, I married someone who had never been in twi. I tried (too hard) to do that too. It didn't work at all for me. My divorce was final in 1996. The irony is that my ex was proselytized by a Mormon divorce attorney and has been a practicing LDS follower ever since. She even (re)married someone from that church. That didn't work out for her either. One marriage was more than enough for me. I've also observed that the whole man is the head of the woman and/or marriage thing has very much gone out of style, I suppose except for hard core religious types. Socks, I too hope Mary Ann decided for herself and is happy now with her life as she is living it.

you sound delusional.

How many would want to follow along with such a group? How many would want to follow along with any other such group that exercises such apparent "undue influence" which is inherently deceptive? Is this simply an example and an instance of something inherent in humanity and/or human nature because "we" (humans/humanity) crave something in particular that this deluded NPD "minister" promised? Is this an instance of... I propose answers to these questions may be alluded to, if not explicitly articulated in the writings of Steven Hassan, who has researched the phenomenon for nearly 50 years? I don't know. But I wonder about it a lot. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/steven-a-hassan-phd Hassan's books include: Freedom of Mind Combating Cult Control Releasing the Bonds The Bite Model THE BITE MODEL OF AUTHORITARIAN CONTROL: UNDUE INFLUENCE, THOUGHT REFORM, BRAINWASHING, MIND CONTROL, TRAFFICKING AND THE LAW Hassan also wrote a book explaining cult influence in a particular political figure in America today The common thread in all of his writing is undue influence. He's not anti-religion. He's not inherently political. But he does have insight related to understanding what Victor Wierwille tapped into in order to capture or corral tens of thousands of us to follow his teaching. What I suspect these Way Corps letters can provide to us now in retrospect is how Victor's emotional condition when he wrote those letters bely his underlying psychological vulnerability was perhaps one key to enable many of us to escape what we had not yet recognized as Victor's undue influence over us.