Rocky

Are you questioning my right to add (or try to) perspective? This question is rhetorical. Does not need to be answered.

No. I corrected your mistake. You referred to Wierwille's Birth Certificate. That's incorrect. The post in question actually referred to his DEATH certificate. It matters to me when materially incorrect posts need to be corrected in order to avoid significant misunderstandings.

Just another way to gaslight people (those still donating to their not-for-profit church). Does it matter anymore?

... nevertheless still emotionally immature. self-justifying rationalizations through and through (by TWI and Victor Wierwille).

Reminds me of that song "I saw the darkness..."

Except when one goes to the first post on the thread and clicks the link in that post. It directly references two LONG time twi followers. For reference, here is that link. https://restitutio.org/2020/02/06/313-questioning-way-international-doctrines-william-barlow/

Stoic philosophy can and does enable a person to walk in the confidence and calmness, etc. that Paul's epistles as we know them say are "fruit of the spirit."

Where'd you get your data to back up that (specious) claim?

It seems there were a couple of the ten commandments covering lying and stealing. I wonder if they might be the part of the Old Testament Law that we don't need to bother complying with these day.

You're entitled to have an opinion. That does NOT mean it's at all credible.

Btw, I don't project anything on to him. I was in the corps(e) 40 some years ago. I'm not interested in what he would or would not have wanted. I'm interested in what he said and did. From a strictly critical analysis perspective, it was his ministry. His organization. He wasn't about to let anyone disagree with him and get away with it.

How sure are you that he did NOT teach that HIS teachings were the Word of God? Whether he ever used those words or not is irrelevant. His actions, his exercise of excommunication ALL consistently DID mean that Victor's words were the Word of God.

IF anything, teaching the concept without the deceptive bias, TWI actually OWES service to the believers/followers.

Which translates to: Tithe Identification: What Tithe is Paid by Christians? I appreciate the practice with French language translation (I still have to use google translate). Immutable my BEE-hind.

Pardon me if I misunderstand, but if God had set it up as a law, wouldn't there be a one to one ratio of action and reaction? Why don't they (or anyone else) just call it the concept of giving (and receiving)? One would think they could expand on it to include the organization's understanding of what the believer's giving is conceptually supposed to be used for... and perhaps expand the teaching to include TWI responsibility to contribute to community support organizations, at least 10 percent of gross receipts.

IOW, if the organization badgers you about how much you need to give them, it's a cult. BTW, Mormon churches do that too.

A very insightful post that demarcates the difference between what "the Word" says and the organizational practices, which is the STORY of how the Word is actually communicated by way of do as I say, not as I do.

Very recently (in March 2025, I believe) Leor Zmigrod published a book on The Ideological Brain: the Radical Science of Flexible Thinking. In general (so far) she addresses religious AND political thinking but doesn't suggest she favors one side or another. This book, IMO, is germane to this thread's discussion because IN PFLAP we were indoctrinated to think according to how Victor Wierwille taught the bible. In the nearly 40 years since I left TWI, I've changed how I think about both religious and political subjects and values. I will not reference any such subject as if I believe what I used to hold as true is particularly wrong, or even right or correct. But I do now hold that the entire notion of private interpretation of "God's Word" is inherently NOT valid because I believe humankind is unable to authoritatively make such pronouncements due to our inherent neurological, emotional, social or otherwise psychological limitation. Nevertheless, carry on with the discussion of TWIs view of private interpretation of the bible. Rather, my view is encapsuled in the wisdom (of Solomon?) in Proverbs 2:1-5.

But I digress.

Do joyful souls generally project hate?

She taught music in Colorado.

Isn't the singer at the 15:40 mark actually Stevie Kay?

Glad I asked. I would never have known otherwise. :)

Including a prominent forerunner of GSC. Perhaps our "Joyful" "friend" encountered it back in the 1990s. ;)