OldSkool

Cool, your welcome and very happy to hear you are on the mend!!!

I think there is room to maneuver on this one because forgiving a wrong brings up the ability to discern, or judge, right from wrong and take appropriate action according to the situation. Theres times I have forgiven unconditionally, in the case of the way international's leadership who wronged me, and thers times I havent. I feel that people equate unforgiveness with bitterness and hatred. Nothing could be further from the truth. Its a case by case scenario that has no room for black and white thinking, though modern day churchianity seems to handle the topic in said manner.

Agreed. The main point I was making is it's a bit easier to see people in person and communicate in a more intimate manner than the interweb. It does help to see people's expressions and such, body languaget, etc. But on the flip side many of our debates on GSC have yielded pleasant enough results. So we are here to discuss and debate and even argue...how else can we prove all things? Great points, Sir!

Exactly. Right on the money. This is the cornerstone to my cult recovery and recovery from alcoholism. Im simply not the same person as I was...true repentance and forgiveness has occured. It has encouraged me to read your summation on the matter. Thanks!

We need more cow bell....

No I dont. I dont think that at all based on the premise that without true repentance and an actual change on the offending party God will not forgive. He allowed his son to die for the sins of all...what else does he need to do? Rhetorical of course but its food for thought. God has moved and most people wont accept God's peace offering by giving his only begotton son for remission of sins. TWI still has an unsettled account but its not my account as Ive forgiven them...from here the Lord can decide how this all sorts out and in the end they are still my brethren in Christ, even though they are a corrupt organization. It would be great, say for example, that Charity wronged me and she could obtain forgiveness by me forgiving her. Forgiveness comes by true repentance and making amends where possible. I live this way faithfully and to the letter as a recovering alcoholic. Ive spent the last several years living exactly what Im preaching. And thus, I am forgiven of my many grevious sins and am at peace with God and Christ.

Very true. Online communications on an anon forums is difficult, especially in topics we are emotionally invested in such as those prevelant on GSC. Since the latest round of Mike wars Ive really desired to stop the bickering and I have. Im doing my best to stay objective and not get into the know you are but what am I type arguments that you guys warned me would ensue...lol. Peace all!

you havent missed out on anything. I reached out to them in my first 6 months out of TWI, somehow thinking something would be different. And to be clear, they are all different from each other as they have all taken what they liked from TWI and rebranded it with their own additions and spin. But at the end of the day its the same ole trap.

Hey, no doubt. I stated what I did not at you but to verify the authenticity of my statement with names of groups and also with the names of those who made the statements for clarity for our multitude of lurkers. I hold them no ill will and believe they meant well, but whats that saying...sincerity is no...gaurantee...o...of....truth...or something like that...

I dont know about you being a troll or not and dont really care. However, there is a simple solution to said problem of former TWI leaders when it comes to wierwille and his issues. Honesty. Just admit the man was a con and some of the things he taught are true and Biblical. Repudiate the lies and distance oneself from his sins. Its not feasible to expect everyone to sit around in sack cloth and ashes in memory of wierwille. Of the three offshoots mentioned STFI, TLTF, and CFF all three groups top leaders were the ones who told me to forgive and forget wierwille's sins and dont throw out the baby with the bath water. I dont know if these guys take notes from each other, or share the same playbook. Their last names were Gallagher, Lynn, and Guigou. All said the same thing to me. My healing depended on forgiving the way international and those who wronged me. And again, utter BS. My healing depended on my repentance and asking forgiveness for myself for being involved with a false prophet and spreading his lies. Thats where my freedom came from. Ive long since forgiven all things TWI and it made little difference in my day to day life. What made all the difference was accepting peace with my creator. God almighty, which many of you now say doesnt exist.

And thats true as can be...but it is not obligatory so fake churches based on the image of wierwille can continue to bilk money from people. Context. For offshoot groups "forgiving wierwille" and other non-penitent wierwille minions equates to forgetting the abuses and false doctrines so the cycle can continue. Not the cycle of sexual abuse started by wierwille on his congregation but the cycle of victimized parishinors caught in the same cycle of sitting in this false prophets shadow, soaking in wierwilleian false doctrines, and giving their hard earned money to corrupt organizations based on this man. I have a picture of an offshoot practicing forgiveness as it relates to coninuing under wierwilles shadow and false doctrines...this manner of forgiveness is necessary so people are free to continue follow wierwille's doctrines in the offshoot of their choosing...

I can say authoratatively from my own personal experiences with all three groups I mentioned that they all preached this false forgiveness doctrine they need to prop up wierwille and keep the gravy train chugging along. Perhaps require is a bit too strong of a word in this case. But all three groups hit me with the same drivel. Its likely their defacto sales pitch to try and snag defecting way corp.

The offshoots know dang good and well that victor Paul wierwille had issues as long as train smoke. They knowingly suppress this information on a false pretense of requiring forgiveness from victims when nobody has stepped up to ask forgiveness and make amends. They all do it. Cff, stfi, tltf, etc. It's just as bad as doing the deed because truth is suppressed in favor of an idolatrous lie.

There is literally no place in scripture that requires anybody to forgive so the person who was wronged can move on in life...thats utter BS. We shoudnt harbor bitterness or take vengance into our own hands, but forgiveness is given to the one who comitted the offence(s) after they repent and ask for it. Obviously, we can intercede and ask for forgiveness for someone else the same way Christ did with the malefactor or where Christ spoke of those who crucified him saying forgive them for they know not what they do. Offshoots, and I mean all of them. Offshoots of the way international have a VESTED interest in requiring victims forgive predator victor paul wierwille, et al., because how else can they keep people roped in, giving them money so they can have cushy little jobs at the local home church office? Jesus himself taught: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

I dont know much about what manifesting the power of God actually is for TWI...I tend to think manifesting the power of God for TWI means a person can believe to get stuff so they can give stuff to the way international. What has happened in my life is God has worked mightily in my life before, during, and after the way international...especially after TWI. And yes: signs miracles and wonders. God is not bound by the way international, or anyone's believeing for that matter. God is not bound at all and the way international does not accurately represent him or know him. Most people rationalize God away and deny his existance...strange wonder they "see" no signs miracles and wonders....even if God did them they would get rationalized away as something else.