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  1. 2 points
    Grace.......imo, there are MANY nefarious reasons for Rico to start a splinter group and run classes: At his age, his resume' would look like garbage to most all employers out there. Rico was a corps coordinator and long-time staffer....would have had lots of contact with recently-exited followers. Right place, right time......a shoo in for another splinter group leader to rise from the ashes. Opportunistic and aggressive.........fundamental qualities needed by any successful cult leader. The class money pays the overhead expenses......the faithful tithing/abs is the mother lode. Perks and privileges........exponential potential payoff, adulation, travel, leisure, flexibility and exploitation-longevity. Power and control over others.........perhaps someday, office staff, subordinate leaders, church building, etc. If narcissistic pathologies and power persists.........sexual predation and lavish toys will be extracted. Cults and splinter-cults grease the skids for lots of shenanigans.......tax exemption status, religious masking, access to people during vulnerable times, authoritative figure, no accountability, operating "off the grid," access to counting/reporting of money, offers to "counsel" in financial/funeral situations, etc. etc. With wierwille being Rico's "father in da verd"..........oh my, oh my!! .
  2. 2 points
    ""Leadership" treated me badly. " - about 1/2 the people who left, if not more. Welcome. Over the decades, the GSC has been host to lots of twi survivors, some of whom post to this day. There's all kinds of personal stories, but common themes creep up- like abuse by so-called leadership. "It’s an organization run by pompous, arrogant, narcissistic, power freaks who, in their eyes, can do no wrong. 2 Peter 2 describes them well. "- It's obvious in hindsight, but twi was designed that way. vpw wanted all the money and control for himself, so he made his own group, and plagiarized the heck out of other Christians and claimed he got almost all of it by special revelation so twi was special, and he was special- est of the special. He treated people as disposable resources, and had no problem cultivating a public image of a nice guy while being a sociopath behind the scenes. vpw cultivated all those petty traits in himself and others. He also had no real leadership training. He had no training in leadership, and he didn't seek any when starting his "Way Corps" program. So, he never weeded out any pettiness. He didn't do quality control, either- if you could raise the money, you could go through the program. So, twi's leadership roles had a lot of those, who filled it up. When corruption came out, all the REAL leaders walked off when nothing could be done to fix twi- which left the corrupt "leaders."
  3. 2 points
    When I think about my time in the Way Corps, I don't think I ever really fully identified with being a minister. I mean I was invested, and spent my early adulthood trying to be one, but I was always suppressing a part of myself to do so. Since I left TWI, I have spent years trying to rediscover who I truly am, and what my own ambitions are. I have observed that a lot of people never find their way back to themselves. They want to recapture that thing they had where they were important, and listened to, and looked up to. They think that's who they are and nothing else feels right. And you can't easily integrate into any other religious setting. So you roll your own. I feel sympathy for them. I notice as a cult survivor, I have a certain proneness to cult-like groups of all stripes. Art cults, fitness cults, education cults. I see them everywhere. I'm trying to understand and heal the part of me that needs them. Not posting as a counter point, just some additional thoughts. PEACE.
  4. 1 point
    I was involved with the Way International Ministry for over 20 years. PFAL class grad 1974, Advanced Class 1979, WOW Vet 1994-1995. I raised my family in the word, according to leadership. Three of my four children are Advanced Class grads. My oldest daughter went WOW after High School graduation, 1991-1992. When she came back home to Ohio, she married a wonderful man who was also raised in the word and involved with The Way International. When the "dang hit the Fan" - Martindale and the leadership doing their "mark and avoid" trip - my family was kicked out for standing up to leadership (NO disagreements allowed or condoned). However, my firstborn and her husband stayed in. So we joined the ranks, like so many other God-Loving families, of being split apart. We had many years of little contact. She moved around the country, and they became ever more active in the new regime headed by Rivenbark and crew. I started constant prayer when she informed me that her husband, herself, and my two grandchildren were committed to becoming Way Corps - #37. I have occasionally read the experiences of former Way Corps leadership who have left, on these forums. To mention I was "troubled" by the course their lives were headed is an understatement. They spent one year in-residence and became graduated Way corps leadership in the Post-Martindale Way international. Once again they moved across the country to serve in various leadership capacities. With the horror stories of experiences endured while living at Headquarters, I was disturbed (heart and soul) when my beautiful daughter told me that her family was moving back to Ohio and living as staff Way Corps at Headquarters. NO-NO-NO-PLEASE GOD NO!!! They were (WERE) on staff for a few years...and this is why I wanted to share the GOOD NEWS OF GOD'S DELIVERANCE--- My daughter and son-in-law have moved away from New Knoxville and they resigned their Way Corps status!!!!! HALLELUJAH!!! i have been praying for them to wake up and it took being on the inside at the Way International Headquarters to finally open their eyes to the corrupt rot that infests that Ministry. They bought a house and have secular jobs now. I just had a long conversation with my daughter and am thankful to know it was a fully-aware and committed joint decision to cut ties to the Way International and "lay low" in order to adjust to the real world. She didn't go into details, but my heart leaped within me for joy when she told me, "Mom, I quit drinking their kool-aid!" Our God Almighty is SO AWESOME!!! And His deliverance is available - in His timing. She's finally free!! Her husband and children are free!! I am so thankful that I learned the truth of God's Word via the classes and teaching of the Way, but after I left I experienced how large our heavenly Father is - He is not constricted in a box or by the dogma of The Way International. Now her family has that freedom to live a truly abundant life together. My prayers have been answered. God bless for allowing me to share the fullness of my heart right now. Above all, I know you all know what this feels like.
  5. 1 point
    Hi There, I recently left TWI almost two years ago after being involved for 27 years. I'm still trying to unwind it all, but I do want to say that over the years I would look at the information in this group and it helped me to eventually come out of TWI. I got involved when I was 13. Met my husband at The ROA, went Way Disciple Group 5, I don't know how often I will be able to come here, but I would love to talk with others who have done it too. Thanks.
  6. 1 point
    Insanity is often quoted as......"Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." ..........but with cult-splinter insanity, I find myself wondering if they are doing the same thing over and over again desiring the SAME results. With nearly 20 years of internet exposure..... Waydale and Greasespot Café.......surely IF these corps leaders had an ounce of integrity and empathy for others, they'd see the errors of their ways, no? What do ALL of the cult offshoots have in common? A self-appointed leader claims to have "the Word" and teach "it" to others. He offers up dissention and disagreements with martindale or rivenbark........and gives wierwille adulation. Without objective reflection and further seminary training or study, he tweaks the wierwille-teachings only slightly. Same pyramid structure is implemented..........same centralization, same lording over others, same rules on giving money. Now that you've met the *new boss, same as the old boss*..........how can you possibly expect DIFFERENT RESULTS? After exiting The Way International Cult.........how many got entrapped into another splinter group for another decade or more? Insanity right? And, within these various splinters......how many more twisted perversions were promoted and propagated by the spiritual elite (cough, cough) among us? The Geer group plunged into the posthumous indoctrinations of geer's idol, wierwille. CES/STFI grafted in new age, self-help quackery like Momentus and personal prophesies and nose spiders. Egads! And, CFF took you back to the nostalgia "good old days of twi" when that young blood was coursing thru your veins. Oh, the memories....... Here a splinter, there a splinter.............everywhere there is ANOTHER splinter. Whether the R&R group will get rooted is still questionable.......but Rico's upstart - Oikeos is another baby cult that is flailing its arms and legs. Nourished on the milk of "Wierwille's Word" this infant will grow up in the image of wierwille...........same result, same outcome as its mother-cult. IMO.........these splinters have NOTHING to do with serving and ministering to others, but rather are SELF-SERVING OVERLORDS. These corps cleave to the cult model, because they have no real-life job experience in the real world. At best, they would be hard to find middle management jobs, sales jobs or seek self-employment. There are near-zero employers out there who are willing to hire a 56-66 year old man who has been fossilized into an obscure "Christian" group for 35 or 40 years. Two years ago, I documented a timeline of my experiences during the Martindale Era.....Insanity on Steroids.......and it was crazy then. But now, seeing these corps who stayed ANOTHER 17 YEARS of Rivenbark's Reign of Error.........and now, wanting to claim the mantle of *Leadership* is laugh-out-loud appalling. What a bunch of weasels. Until they clean and sanctify themselves from all of wierwille cult, top to bottom, thoroughly and throughly............they are a blight on the body of Christ. They disappoint and diminish and destroy by seeking opportunities for filthy lucre's sake. Beware of their pernicious ways as they twist and pervert words to indulge and profit in this seduction. They seek those who've had their minds grooved with cult indoctrination and servitude, rather than do the hard work of reaching others. Beware of cults. Beware of groupthink. "In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. " Friedrich Nietzsche
  7. 1 point
    For, yea, God loveth a cheerful moocher.
  8. 1 point
    What Mr. Sebastian wrote in his blog is straight out of pfal. Almost verbatim.
  9. 1 point
  10. 1 point
    Yes, in this case, it's people who KNOW what a cult looks like. If they join up now, it's because they decided they can't cut it in the real world, and NEED a cult to tell them what to think, what to do, and to take their money and time, most importantly. Rico's counting on this- which says a lot about Rico. If Rico's right about their BEING a God, Rico will need to answer for this to Him at some point.
  11. 1 point
    Attention: Skyrider is running a 3-part series this weekend........February 23 and 24. The Bourne Identity The Bourne Supremacy The Bourne Ultimatum Open discussion will follow movie series........detailing aspects of intense-indoctrination, discovery and survivor. No charge. Bring your own sleeping bag. Popcorn and beer will be provided.
  12. 1 point
    A nest of scorpions devouring each other into the bottomless oblivion they have so richly earned. GOOD RIDDANCE!
  13. 1 point
    Whoa. In my neighborhood somewhere! I should ask him over for tea.
  14. 1 point
    The Momentus thread has resurfaced from the past (2004).......a reminder of another perverted version of scamming people. And......some twi-leaders, after exiting mother-cult twi, went forth with scams and schemes like Momentus. Men like Bo Reahard (1st corps), John Lynn (CES founder), John Schoenheit (6th corps) and Mark Graeser (7th corps) were strong proponents of this "thought-reform" process. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Some Excerpts from Steve Lortz: This is different from cultic groups and others that use thought-reform techniques. In these latter groups, there is deliberate deception about what the group is and what some of the rituals might be, and primarily, there is deception about what the ultimate goal will be for a member, what will ultimately be demanded and expected, and what the damages resulting from some of the practices might be. The hidden agenda of the Momentus trainers was to turn Momentus grads into recruiting machines, something they did with a vengence. They really liked John Lynn. The latest I read, John was bragging he had gotten 1,200 of his "closest friends" to take Momentus. At $150 a head, John Lynn was responsible for bringing $180,000 into the Momentus coffers. Here's how the life-boat exercise went. It was the last exercise of the day, after we were all worn out. The lights were dimmed. We were told to sit with our eyes closed while Larry Pinci led us through the guided imagery of being on a cruise ship, how wonderful everything was. Then the ship started to sink. (This just seemed hokey to me. Maybe it was because Larry's delivery wasn't up to snuff. Maybe it was the four years experience I had living on a submarine.) Next, each one of us had to get up in front of the group (about 60 in our case) and tell what he/she would do, and why. Any attempt to escape by a means other than the life-boat was disallowed by the trainers. Early persons who gave up their seat out of what Danny called the "well-known, traditional Christian virtue of 'self-sacrifice'" were hooted and jeered and mocked by the trainers, so that option suffered an early demise. What the trainers wanted was for everyone to make a pitch as to why he or she personally should be on the boat. But Momentus was designed, from the ground up, to be deceptive. Deception was in EVERYTHING the trainers did. They didn't care if people were hurt by what they were doing. They didn't care if people got anything beneficial out of what they were doing, either. They only cared about our money, and about breaking and remolding us into recruiting machines so they could get even MORE people's money. The Momentus training fostered an elitism among its grads that made the Way Corps look like the Mickey Mouse Club. I never attended any of the local grad meetings. After my experiences in The Way, I couldn't stomach the thought of being another "grad" of ANYTHING. If I HAD attended the secret grad meetings, I would have become aware sooner of the truth about certain things happening in The Living Word Fellowship. The Momentus grads hijacked the leadership team by driving non-grads out (using techniques learned in the Momentus training), and then began using parts of the meetings to promote Momentus. It looked very casual and spontaneous on the surface, but at heart, it was all carefully orchestrated, in order to maximize recruiting. The most insidious evil of the Momentus training is the hold-harmless agreement. Trusting people who mean what they say and say what they mean, in signing the hold-harmless agreement, unthinkingly commit themselves to NOT RECOGNIZING the true damage Momentus does. That includes the deceptive physical, emotional and spiritual manipulation involved in the exercises. Those people are primed to accept the trainer's deceptive, nonsensical explanations without asking any critical questions. The hold-harmless agreement also fosters a callous, cold-hearted indifference to the suffering of the people who succumb to Momentus' "psychologically dangerous" exercises. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Insidious groups often change the names of their courses, classes and conferences............when critics and dissenters raise awareness of their tactics. New names ............... https://www.therevenantprocess.com/ and https://www.bloodandethos.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Twi's in-residence corps program used physical, emotional and spiritual manipulation exercises to overpower and indoctrinate. And now, there are ex-corps leaders who, not only run offshoot mini-cults..........but parlay their manipulative skills into "self-help" quackery.
  15. 1 point
    I'm a GENIUS. I found da' link! Enjoy. BUT, the text of the pdf by Ralph that I posted from my personal files is cut off on the link above. I don't know why. I forgot how much info is in there from Dave Anderson and Evan Pyle, et al.
  16. 1 point
    Hi all, I used to be fairly active on Waydale. I stop in here occasionally for "gossip." Rarely post. These last couple of visits I just have to as I find it unbelievable that these folks are still involved. I took PFAL in '74, first ROA in '74. 10th Corpse, left in Oct. 1986 in that first major exodus. Interim year at HQ. This excerpt in toto is by Ralph and is from a thread I started in Waydale called "TWI I, II, and III." I believe it was one of the most illuminating threads ever because Ralph was involved as well as Dave Anderson. I think he summed it up well. I also do not believe Wierwille ever expected the growth that he got, but, let's face it: they used cutting edge media materials back then for the class. I have my own views on all this, but I also see that the later folks, those who did not get involved until the 80's or later seem to have missed a time when the Ministry was actually fun and healing. A lot of this info, and it's mutation into a cult, to paraphrase Ralph, is in that old thread mentioned above. I thought I found it many moons ago in the Waydale archives somewhere but had to look a bit for it. Some of you might find it useful. Here is the pdf of Ralph's take on it. I hope it sheds some light for you. January 2000. RalphDubofskySummation.pdf
  17. 1 point
    At his burial, she said "He was a mean man" to someone accompanying her. Considering the usual habit of people only speaking well of someone at their funeral, I think that said a lot.
  18. 1 point
    Are you asking if TWI is a cult? The answer, of course, is yes. Unless you ask them. In that case, they'll tell you they are a bible study group or a teaching ministry or whatever it is they currently say to be euphemistic. And, just so you know, they've been known to use a recruitment technique called "date and switch" to proselytize new members. I don't know if they still do this but, in essence, the idea is to feign personal interest in you. Once you are more committed to the group than your relationship with the individual, they move on to the next prospect. Speaking in tongues was supposed to be the hook that snagged you. I'm glad it didn't.
  19. 1 point
    I recently discovered this article that relates to cult brain. It describes a scenario much like Wierwille in the PFLAP class instructs students to reject anything other than what lines up with his fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible. Of course, many of us on GSC have discussed "waybrain" over the last nearly two decades. ... religious fundamentalism—which refers to the belief in the absolute authority of a religious text or leaders—is almost never good for an individual. This is primarily because fundamentalism discourages any logical reasoning or scientific evidence that challenges its scripture, making it inherently maladaptive. ----- The single most important thing I may have learned over the last 32 years is that God is bigger than any notion of humankind, written or imagined. How does this relate to Wierwillism? Well, the cranky old potentate(s) [Either Wierwille or Martindale, those were the only two I interacted with] of TWI was never allowed for discussion or disagreement. It was ALWAYS their way or the highway. As I can see now, that puts God into a very small box and twi followers into even smaller boxes. It's increasingly obvious that religious fundamentalism is having a profound negative impact on society. But I won't get into that in detail here.
  20. 1 point
    Raf, I beg to differ with you; Demons do exist! I know one lives here in DC!!
  21. 1 point
    Aloha Ann, welcome to Grease Spot and I’m so happy for you !!!! I first took PFAL in ’74 and went to Advanced Class ’79 too ! Wow it’s almost like we’re twins ! I can relate to your excitement of when family disentangles themselves from TWI’s web of deceit. My wife and I were Family Corps and we left in the maelstrom generated by G33r’s passing of a turd paper. Our exit wasn’t anything as dramatic as what you described (standing up to leadership); we just slowly drifted away…after resigning our position, putting our relationship with TWI on hold and following up on what we thought were “red flags” in doctrine in practice…kept on drifting ever since…once you get used to it, a self-directed journey is pretty nice…finding Grease Spot was a big boost to our confidence – that other folks saw these red flags too. Family…yes family is a big deal! …took me awhile to get that…in TWI it was pretty much shoved down everyone’s throat that you put God and the ministry first…but that all changed when we left…the way we raised our kids changed – not just a shift in what we thought was important for them to know, encouraging them to think, respecting personhood, etc. but also interpersonal-wise…for example, one of my new lifelong projects became working at being less and less of an a$$hole to my wife and kids…I’ve found a big secret to achieving that is simply following the golden rule – Luke 6:31, treat others the way I would like to be treated. my mindset used to be ensconced in way-dogma – so I had this vague idea that I should treat others the way I saw wierwille and certain other spiritual a$$holes treat people. Their rule was “it’s my way or the highway.” Speaking of dogma - I love when you said “but after I left I experienced how large our heavenly Father is - He is not constricted in a box or by the dogma of The Way International.” I feel the same way…I'm now celebrating life outside the box on a daily basis… Love, peace and best wishes to you and your family T-Bone
  22. 1 point
    This has been said before. There is the felt need to discard all when stepping out of the mire and crap of a very bad involvlement. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water - the word is the baby. TWI did teach some actual Biblical truths, if it did not, it would never have grown to what it did - TWI became corrupt. Hold close the truths of the Word of God and unshackle the rest. You will find it hard to identify with nearly all organized religeons, don't expect to get a total 100% fit. Go with what's comfortable. Seek fellowship, even if it's a guy/gal sitting on a park bench - that's fellowship that exceeds a structured church setting.
  23. 1 point
    Jesus is the healer. Anytime anyone's healed *he* gives the gift and should get the glory. Not a man. Not a ministry.
  24. 1 point
    Certainly, you know as well as I do that numbers are uber secretive. I have no way of knowing exactly how many. Here's what I do know to be true: 1.) The last service I went to, I saw about 80ish people in attendance. The same 80ish I saw each and every time sitting in the same 80ish seats. The aud. was a desolate wasteland filled with nametags. 2.) Many regions/areas continue to condense. There are "out to pasture" assignments that those who have fought in the trenches go to retire. I cannot speak to who are filling the roles of the "retiring" positions, as most are younger but not in my circle(s). 3.) The move to social media platforms (Twitter, digital Way Mags) have been implemented to increase the appearance of size/validity with the younger crowd. You'd have to be desperate to open up yourself to the potential ridicule and onslaught that a malicious few could do on Twitter. For those Boomers out there who need reference- Imagine being able to Google "The Way International" and have GSC come up as the first hit. That would be amazing! Well, Twitter and hashtags allow for the most popular/recent tweets to come up. You # correctly, and those curious about TWI could get whatever is being said by whomever most recently. It takes a desperate brand to open up to that much potential bad advertising. An interesting note, they have stayed off of FB for some bizarre reason. There are about 20 smaller groups (at least) that people have self organized, from singles to prayer groups to larger undertakings. There's even those who feel compelled as if it were their mission to post a thought of the day or mini teaching series. That can't be sanctioned. Why let that spin out of control and open up Twitter? Who's running this????? 4.) Same ole' same ole'. Everything looks/feels the same 10-20 years ago (except artwork. Why so bad?). Formulaic magazine articles, doctrine, overly-scripted and read word-for-word STS, Way Prod... There's small tweaks, but big parts are just stationary. Coasting off of long-term ABS investments and a system that has "worked" for decades. Don't rock the base that is left. And the base that's left likes it just the way it is, apparently. 5.) Huge push towards getting my (the younger) generation to take over. I suspect that has to do with the aging out of the boomers and older leadership. However, those in power still seem to have a reluctance to become more nimble, agile, and change. Go figure. But "GO CORPS!" and "WAY D!!!" ads are everywhere in the mag and onilne. I never did get that. Those who are sold out are going to anyway. 6.) The offspring of Corps are either way into it or way out of it. Very little of our generation can stomach just ho-hum attendance or be lilly poinsettias. Not sure where that comes from, but I don't think our attention span is long enough to put up with something we don't REALLY care enough about. We don't have time for that. Others have left because of the stance on gay marriage or the lack of community giving. They feel churches are a better fit. And they are. 7.) Most field corps have jobs, PERIOD. It doesn't really matter how much $$ comes in to a branch, but from the aging base I would say not much, you have to work. It was explained to me in the late 90's that it was essential to ABS because a portion of the area $$$ went to keep the Corps members in that area full-time ministers and not full time employees. They needed to be spiritually ready all of the time to move for God and the stresses of a job could not allow for that. Many peddle their part-time gigs or pyramid schemes to their followers. I remember finishing a DTA class and then being served a hard-sell on a reverse osmosis water system (with magnets!!!) during refreshments. They wanted me to sign-up right there and brought a laptop to do it. What? The company had lots of magnetic garbage that went counter to the DTA session we just finished. Hypocrite much? 8.) Many rules exist, but state to state, region to region, it can be like the Wild West. You never know what flies where and which rules are important. MI has some CRAZY folks following some 70's style fellowships/limbs and lock-step loyalty. East coast has literally CRAZY folks running things. Parts of OH are everything in between. It's a mess in terms of quality and consistency. There are still good folks (AND good fellowships), but good luck. 9.) I need more bourbon. I'll keep looking through the threads and add where i see appropriate. When I was in it, I was really in it. I think we all were. I really wanted to change the world and help people and thought I was the faithful remnant. These (very small and aging) people do too, and it seems without a younger group, it will just die out with its members. There's a big nest egg there, and there will always be a fight to control however much is there, so I never see it dissolving unless unforeseen liabilities drain the nest egg, but TWI will likely always be around, no matter how small, because of the $$$. *edited for bourbon mistakes
  25. 1 point
    In an effort to clarify the original rules, we have expanded them with specific items. I will be putting them up on the main site, but wanted you to have a chance to view them. Welcome to the GreaseSpot Café Forums! The forums are for the purpose of discussing The Way International (TWI)--and many other topics of interest. While our mission is to tell "the other side of the story" about TWI, we recognize that posters' opinions about their TWI experience range from pro to con to somewhere in between. We welcome them all. The GSC Forum Rules Be courteous, and please don't make it personal. Remember, others feel as strongly about their opinions as you do about yours. It's okay to disagree, but when doing so, criticize the message, not the messenger. For example, "I remember that event differently," is appropriate; "you're an idiot" is not. Also, don't assume someone is calling you a liar just because he/she disagrees with you. Please do not engage in insulting behavior, personal attacks, and inflammatory language. This includes: calling fellow posters names accusing them of "needing a therapist/shrink/meds" labeling others with terms such as "Wierwille apologist" or "perpetual victim" distorting another poster's name to insult or ridicule making disparaging remarks about fellow posters' character, motives, intelligence, religious beliefs (or lack thereof), or life outside these forums. Implying negatives about fellow posters is also not acceptable. Be aware that sarcasm toward another poster can quickly turn a discussion into a flame war. And by the way, "He hit me first" didn't work with your mom, and it won't work here. We disapprove of comments that stifle discussion or label a particular viewpoint as unwelcome. Such comments hinder thoughtful and open discussions. Do not accuse fellow posters of being "trolls." If you suspect someone is trolling, PM the moderators; please don't start a thread about it. Do not "stalk" another poster from thread to thread to perpetuate an earlier disagreement (but don't accuse someone of stalking if he/she just happens to disagree with you often). Do not talk negatively about a fellow poster in a thread where he or she is not participating or start a new thread to "call out" that person. Do not challenge a fellow poster's personal recollections of his/her TWI experience. People deserve the freedom to share how TWI affected their lives and should not have to fear interrogation or feel pressured to "prove the unprovable." Generalizations about how TWI affected everyone who was ever involved in the organization may be challenged, however. If you wish to question those generalizations, start a new thread. Violation of the above rules will result in deletion of the offending posts and/or suspension. Persistent refusal to follow them may result in permanent banning. If you have a specific problem with a poster, settle it outside the forums or use the "ignore" feature. Threads that deteriorate into little more than bickering will be deleted or sent to the Soap Opera Forum, at the moderators' discretion. These rules do not (and cannot) cover every possible eventuality, so please don't try to find loopholes. The moderators will use their best judgment regarding "grey areas." The Purpose of the Rules These rules are meant to encourage civil, courteous discussion. They are not meant to stifle your freedom of expression. We want everyone to have a voice here; please use yours wisely and considerately.