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  1. I like to think I wouldn't have gotten involved, either. Truth is, though, it was 50 years ago. I'm not the same person now that I was then. Don't beat yourself up over decisions you made so long ago.
    4 points
  2. I left twice. In 1982 I got married without the "blessing" of "leadership" with the added bonus of having failed to secure enough Corps sponsorship to get accepted into the 13th Corps. I got into a few arguments with the Limb Leader over various things and stopped going to Way functions. However, in my heart and mind I still believed it all and just chalked up the problems to bad leadership. Around 1990 my wife and I started considering going back. We were unaware of the turmoil that had been occurring. My oldest step son was about the right age for PFAL so we signed him up and started,
    2 points
  3. Brandeis made his famous statement that “sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants” in a 1913 Harper’s Weekly article, entitled “What Publicity Can Do.” But it was an image that had been in his mind for decades. Twenty years earlier, in a letter to his fiance, Brandeis had expressed an interest in writing a “a sort of companion piece” to his influential article on “The Right to Privacy,” but this time he would focus on “The Duty of Publicity.” He had been thinking, he wrote, “about the wickedness of people shielding wrongdoers & passing them off (or at least allowing them to pass th
    2 points
  4. Your entire post/comment resonates with me. I believe I've said the same thing about the authoritarian structure in different words, a number of times over the last twenty years. I saw it as the accountability in the social structure was bass-ackward in twi. In Acts, the elders held themselves accountable to the people who supported them. IMO, the entire Christian church, at least in the Western world, looks at authority in such a way that the elders were considered "leaders" who must be followed. That's dangerous stuff all around. And I believe that's why sexual abuse is pervasive regard
    2 points
  5. I'll see your little dictator and raise you one big fascist
    1 point
  6. Grace – I know what you mean – I have thought the same thing myself many times…but the thing is, we are not all-knowing beings – so we are bound to make lots of mistakes. Actress Helen Mirren said something I thought was profound after winning an award (she’s won a lot of awards : Academy, BAFTA, Golden Globe, Emmy, Tony – so I don’t recall the occasion - but anyway she said) “If it were all truly known and planned and determined, life wouldn’t be worth living, just a giant to-do list waiting to be crossed off…” Something I wrote on another thread( see here ) got into “counterf
    1 point
  7. This post is golden, Waysider !!!!!!! “I'm not the same person now that I was then.” Wow! There’s something to that – and I don’t think about that as often as I should…A while back I reconnected with an old friend (by phone and email – since we live several states apart now) someone who was a good friend of mine from high school. We went on to separate colleges but still hung out together. It was about two and a half years into college that I got involved with TWI – and when I started witnessing to…and inadvertently scaring off…and sometimes even writing off my non-way friends. Long
    1 point
  8. T-Bone, yes! I agree with you, and Rocky. Future generations, need to know about cults, like TWI, so they don't get trapped in them. I wish I had known years ago, that the TWI was a cult. If I had known, I would never have gotten involved with it.
    1 point
  9. The museum idea came to me because of events last year around the country regarding removal of confederate monuments, which became a controversial issue. During a zoom meetup with historians facilitated by the Arizona Historical Society, some of them opposed removal. Others recommended the artifacts be preserved in museums dedicated to putting them in historical context so people now and in the future would better understand the changing times in our country. I'm all for preserving them, despite twi's practice of burning books and other objects they consider dangerous. Putting twi (and o
    1 point
  10. Not an endorsement of their message, but these gals are much more enjoyable to watch than the Renewed Mind singers.
    1 point
  11. Thanks for the link, Penworks that is a very engrossing paper you wrote; I think you still have an overstuffed quiver of arrows to arm folks against harmful cults – if we were talking a superhero franchise your Undertow book is like an origin story, only the beginning – so hopefully more books are in the works . Here’s a few of the things your paper got me thinking about...You wrote: “…cult leaders use symbols to control followers and how we can break the power of those symbols. As an example, I’ll use The Way International,™ the fundamentalist cult I escaped in 1987. High-control gr
    1 point
  12. Ever think about how being regularly faced with symbols in TWI like the old official logo of a globe with PFAL written on it, and hearing slogans such as "The Word over the World" and "The accuracy of God's Word" over and over and over ... helped VPW gain power over us? I have. A few years ago, I thought about this so much that I submitted it as a topic for a paper I could present at an annual cultic studies conference sponsored by ICSA (mentioned above): their international conference, 2017, in Bordeaux, France. They accepted it, and I delivered it. After my session, you can be sure
    1 point
  13. With you mentioning that you and your wife were considering going back and then later getting the boot in 2001 – for some reason that made me think of a quote from the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey HAL 9000: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.
    1 point
  14. In 1675, in a letter to his rival Robert Hooke, Isaac Newton wrote “If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants”…in 2021 a verbose post tried to reference that by gravitating towards the optics of what the sum of TWI-offshoots might add up to: If they have seen further into the darkness, it is by standing on the shoulders of sycophants who have had their heads up wierwille’s a$$.
    1 point
  15. Hi GreaseSpotters, Hope you are doing well! Just a note to let you know my blog post today is a special report on QAnon and whether it is a cult. The research was done by a long-time cult researcher, author, and counselor. To read it, click here.
    1 point
  16. well...you're close it's Long Distance Guy just kidding You got it George ! that's probably the most uncomfortable scene to watch
    1 point
  17. must be a thread of a tangled web "Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive”
    1 point
  18. Yeah Grace, sometimes I wonder if the top leadership of The Way International like being “under the radar” (not very well known) to avoid unnecessary attention – I know they’re probably considered small potatoes compared to bigger destructive cults like Scientology - but maybe they like it that way…being more in the public eye would leave them open to public scrutiny, criticism…and who knows, maybe even widespread demands for accountability… I wonder how many TWI-followers would still trust TWI-leadership if they found out even just a smidgen of the sexual abuse that’s been going on – a
    1 point
  19. Yes !!!! A case in point is the riveting film Spotlight - IMDB's brief description of it - "The true story of how the Boston Globe uncovered the massive scandal of child molestation and cover-up within the local Catholic Archdiocese, shaking the entire Catholic Church to its core."
    1 point
  20. Rocky, that is such a heart-wrenching article – and after reading it, I thought of a whole other aspect on the sexual culture and abuse in The Way. I realized my previous post over double standards and hypocrisy just scratched the surface. While reading that article – a thought occurred to me a couple of times. How could some TWI-leaders get that fvcked up? I think it comes down to systemic problems inherent in TWI. I believe one of the biggest systemic problems is the consequence of having an authoritarian pyramid structure with absolute power and influence being at the top – a position
    1 point
  21. My community believes Phil, and other men trained as ministers in The Way International, are righteous, knowledgeable authorities and that the beautiful women they surrounded themselves with are lucky to be in their presence. This organization, a recognized cult, has significant claims of sexual and spiritual abuse, dating back to the 1970s. In this community, these are swept under the rug and brushed aside as “how men behave.” Is that how your community behaves? Where a man “teaches” sexually starved young women, who believe him to be a friend and mentor, by forcing his fingers inside their v
    1 point
  22. A long time ago on a calendar far, far away… A False Hope It is a period of civil unrest. An unscrupulous pastor striking it rich from plagiarism has won some converts by hijacking many of them from organized religion and the Jesus Movement. During battles to control his own followers certain brave souls had managed to break open the lock-box of dirty secrets as well as reveal the cult leader’s ultimate weapon, delusions of grandeur with enough power to destroy one’s grip on reality. Pursued by ridiculous threats of oblivion and devil possession, rebel ex-followers established c
    1 point
  23. Mark, Have you thought of publishing it as an eBook? I’ve put a couple of how-to links below. I can’t give you any advice on which way to go since I’ve never published anything – but as an end-user (I like to read books ) I tend to buy eBooks more than printed books. I know my wife appreciates the fact that our home doesn’t look like a book hoarder’s convention . Seriously though, I like the convenience and portability of eBooks since I have some study Bibles, commentaries, and Bible encyclopedias on my Kindle and iPhone Kindle App…You sound like you’ve done a lot of the footwork
    1 point
  24. See, here's the problem. You guys seem to think Wierwille was actually interested in finding 'The rightly divided word". I think he really couldn't have cared less. He was looking for the perfect con, just like Harold Hill in The Music Man..... Grifers gotta grift.
    1 point
  25. The pfal Foundational class was billed as "foundational." It would be more fair to the material to point out that the class is a mix of material from BG Leonard's class, Bullinger's books ("How To Enjoy the Bible" early on, "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" later on) abd Stiles' "Gifts of the Spiirit" book, along with a few things tossed in here and there. Then it should look a little disjointed- because it IS. Look- I'm an eclectic. I LIKE the idea of drawing from diverse backgrounds. That's a SELLING POINT to me- you did the work and are trying to get the best, or the most rele
    1 point
  26. Ha ! I’m way ahead of you my dear sensei – after you had recently recommended it to Laura T on the Houston in the 70s thread – I ordered a new copy from Amazon – The Tao of Psychology: Synchronicity and the Self - it’s the 25th anniversary edition, January 2005 (Bolen explains why the longer title in the newer edition - "synchronicity" was an unfamiliar term years ago). Have already started reading it…easy read...great stuff!
    1 point
  27. Sorry, I didn't see this until now. Glad you found the book to be thought provoking. Another one you might find intriguing that I recently learned of is The Tao of Psychology by Jean Shinoda Bolen. IF you can find a copy. I bought one (used) on Amazon recently and now can't find the book by searching Amazon at all. But Bolen's website does have a link to it on Amazon. Immanence as described on your linked Wikipedia page seems to fit with Bolen's concept of synchronisity. The blurb on Amazon reads: Understanding the Moments That Touch and Transform Our Lives Who hasn'
    1 point
  28. Thanks for posting that, Annio. I read about this stuff in a CNN article February of 2021. I’ve watched about 6 minutes of it just now but will get back to this later since I have a lot of errands to run today. It’s a shame the Internet wasn’t around in wierwille’s heyday… Thank God for Grease Spot Café and the Me Too Movement that pulls back the curtain to expose $hit like this!
    1 point
  29. that's some good points JohnJ !!!!
    1 point
  30. Undertow rocks. Buy it and read it if you haven’t. I’m looking forward to a better 2021. The change in administration will be good. It keeps our country from becoming a monarchy. Some idiots should learn from that but they won’t.
    1 point
  31. With that perspective I personally have many memories that I have of enjoyable times, growth, life events. It’s amazing how removing the marionette strings allows the puppet to move freely.
    1 point
  32. Reconnected with an old Way friend over holidays. It’s amazing how the perspective of the rank and file believer just does not have any pertinent details of the real putrid fruit of the leadership. Ever since inception the Way has been hiding the insidious acts of its leaders and fleecing the unsuspecting kind hearted souls in the seats of their members homes. They sit there because the leadership has zero investment in any community across the world. Church in the home means there is no responsibility on the organization to provide the extras most community churches provide free
    1 point
  33. Memories good, bad or indifferent... I was just thinking a few days ago, as I prepared to visit a friend (in my "bubble") for our very quiet NY Eve celebration (a meal, a bottle of good wine, and a glass of port) than we once used to have to go to a massive Event in the auditorium. Way Prods would put on a show (sometimes quite good) and there'd be few comedy bits. And then it'd all cool down and there'd be prayers to bring in the new year. Do they still do that, I wonder? Can they even fill the front row in the auditorium nowadays? Or do they all "social distance" and sit 6 or 16 r
    1 point
  34. After I left TWI, I realized my pre-TWI life was just as valid as during TWI. As posted above, we were taught to disavow our previous life as "old man" etc. i came to see my life a single thread, not a before and after. I reclaimed my previous life. I made a pie chart of my life with time in TWI highlighted. It's about a fifth of the pie and this point. As time goes by, the TWI section gets smaller and smaller....
    1 point
  35. Gosh, I found one of those Red Thread long-sleeve shirts the other day. Had forgotten I'd got it. It could be a nice shirt to wear, but I don't like its connotations. And no doubt it has TWI's name all over it and I wouldn't want to "advertise" them. Might have to make dusters or some such out of it.
    1 point
  36. 1 point
  37. Thanks Grace, I haven't been around here much for a long time, and had never seen that link from Penworks (Thx, Penworks, BTW), but on all the other pretty current. I was at the reading of POP at corps week in '86. Have read portions since. My gawd, that poor man, look at the burden on him and how he really serves and shields the MOGFOT and how he tries so hard, and no matter what he just keeps trying, and the hurt and pain of OUR beloved MOGFOT, oh, I wish I had been there.....sob sniff tears.....NOT. I also know two fellas, 8th and 10th, who flew to Gartmore with ano
    1 point
  38. Great post, Grace ! right to the point ! Bingo…Yahtzee…and Parcheesi !!!
    1 point
  39. Nice summary. I think that hit the mark.
    1 point
  40. Taxi, I think if JAL had done "some actual research," he would know that most of VPW's teachings about the Bible were off! If VPW was wrong, than JAL would be wrong, because he followed after VPW. I don't think JAL would ever publicly admit that most of what he has been teaching, is wrong. John has a huge ego, and he isn't a humble person; God forbid that he admit to being an ordinary person like you, and I.
    1 point
  41. Questions about the identity of Jesus Christ are almost as old as Christianity itself. The gospels and epistles are, at least in part, a rebuttal to early claims about exactly who Jesus was, both before and after his resurrection. He's the Son of God. Why? In Mark it's at his baptism. In Luke and Matthew it's by virtue of him not having an earthly father. In John it's a relationship that predates his birth. All answers are Biblically defensible. The inescapable conclusion from the gospels: he is the Son of God. But John is the only gospel that explicitly appears to make the case that he is a
    1 point

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