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Showing content with the highest reputation since 05/12/2019 in all areas

  1. 2 points
    Hey everyone, I’ve been looking at this site for years and decided to join. I was raised in The Way and just left in 2017, with my husband who was also raised in The Way. We left after seeing the deep corruption and evil within the organization, and after becoming Christians within 24 hours of each other. We have found true freedom and healing over the past 2 years in getting to know Jesus as our God, and though our families have rejected us, have found an amazing family within our church community. Both my husband and I desire to help those who are struggling with leaving The Way, and who are struggling with doing the brain surgery required to unravel all of the lies. We have been able to maintain our faith through this process, and actually understand what “freedom in Christ” means. Personally, I am still working through a variety of issues resulting from my upbringing (both from TWI and a rough parent situation). Counseling and inner healing ministry have been incredibly helpful, and I am hopeful that with time, I will be completely free. Our prayer is to see The Way die completely, and we pray for healing to those who have left but still hold onto the harmful beliefs that the cult teaches its followers. So many people leave TWI but are never truly free from it. My husband and I are available if anyone has questions, or if you are hurting and need a friend who understands what you’re going through.
  2. 2 points
    The fact that these folks are just now leaving illustrates, to me, that their minds have been dipped in a formaldahyde type solution: they don't work well anymore. Their social circles won't change, they'll still live with their current worldview, they'll all be clinging like I did that what we were taught must be right? please? whoa, that is, IF they even question it. Manipulated by Holy Scriptures? Please, say it ain't so, Joe. My current view is all we got Theologically was an offspring branch of Protestant Christianity (yeah, I was reared Methodist), that started with Darby back then in the 1830's, Dispensationalism (a BIGGIE!) into the Revivalism movement, to the toned down Charismatic movement birthing from Pentecostalism (no pun intended). The basis for us being at the outside edge of the Standard Bell curve? Bullinger (not as hot as we were taught), Stiles (who?), Leonard (who?). In other words: hogwash. Others may even say the entire Bible. I know quite a few of those folks. I liked some of them then. I am saddened that they stayed. Sigh. I finally accepted my Geological tables, 9th grade Earth Science, the Brachiopods (fossils- at least 550 million years old) I found coupla' years later at 15 years old in a creek bed behind my home UP in my Hills at Elevation +800 ft. I quit on the vapor canopy theory of the Noahic Flood, and any glimmer of hope with Creationism died out, sadly, but refreshingly nice, too. I understand a lot more NOW, and am still exploring. From what I've read, I might be kinda' on the same page with a few others here. Some loudmouth guy here comes to mind. The steps toward resolving these conflicts is not as hard now, and my mind is full of more questions now, but not in a confusing way. This has been worse than getting a coffee stain on a brand new white shirt! These "jumps" or "parsing" in worldviews requires a flexible, unfearing mind to be able explore. Nimble. Aware. A true natural curiosity makes it more fun. I feel I am just getting started at times. I don't think they can do it.
  3. 1 point
    Hi WordWolf. I have interacted with Frontzcak numerous times. I lived at HQ for 8 years, and he was there for half of them. I interacted with his spouse also. When Barnard came to my house in Franklin, MA, to recruit me because “God showed him I was called to be his frontman and apostle”, and that Walter Cummins was ordained to be his “research man”, in the early 1990s, I spoke with Pam and Randy Roark (whom I knew from my time in MI) and Frontczak whom I knew from HQ. Barnard called them from my phone in order to have them “vouch” for his “man’o’gawd” status because I did not know him but I knew those three “well’ according to them. Barnard was driving an RV and they were holding down the fort at the RRF Camp in MN. I made him park on the street in front of my house because our driveway wasn’t big enough for his RV. I didn’t let him sleep in my house, and after reading his doctrinal research thesis “proving” that his ministry was Christ’s ministry, i told him that Lori would be happy to cook us all a nice breakfast, good coffee, in order so he could leave by 7AM so we could get our kids off to school on time the next morning. I also requested that he never come near my house again or ever contact me again. LOL! Then, when he was locked in his camper, I went and burned his stupid paper on my grill in the back yard and went to bed. I didn’t buy Frontczak’s lies back then and I don’t buy them today. So, I knew Frontczak fairly well back then, and my numerous personal interactions with him certainly helped me form my professional opinion of him then and now. I have never claimed to have diagnosed Frontczak “formally” or definitively. That’s your inference. I do claim to have the professional expertise to make some educated observations about his blatant malignant sociopathic behavior, based not only on “a handful of posts”, but also based on 4 years of interaction and personal interaction with and observation of Frontczak and many of those giving him cover today, like Quillen.
  4. 1 point
    I suspect that both the training to do so and the practice of same were more about interacting with a patient, observing them, and so on. That's not the same as reading a handful of posts and diagnosing someone formally.
  5. 1 point
    Hi Waykid and multiple blessings to you and yours. I't's great that you have found 'release from your prisons' and you can look forward to an enjoyable hodos ! ( Bear in mind not everyone here has thrown out all of twi's belief system, i.e. Jesus being Son of God and not God the Son !! ) love n blessings
  6. 1 point
    Hello Waykid. Hello, and welcome. I don't know if you, and your husband know Leah, LCM's oldest child. She has posted a few times here, and I find her posts very interesting, and informative. I joined TWI decades decades ago, and left after 10 years. At one time, I truly thought kids raised in TWI, were truly blessed. I thought they didn't have to go through all the S--t I did growing up in an unhappy home. Wow!! Was I ever wrong!!! I know that many of you kids growing up in Way World, had serious issues with drugs, and alcohol, among other problems. Not all of course, but some did. I could go on, and list more of the S--t, some of you kids went through, but I think you know about this, than I do. I am so happy that you, and your husband left TWI, and found a church that works for you!! God bless both of you!!
  7. 1 point
    Thanks Raf, it was a mistake for me to post under the mod name.. complete brain fart. So yeah I go to both the Novus Ordo Mass and also the Traditional Latin Mass, and guess what I do most during those? You guess it, SIT.
  8. 1 point
    Hello, Norbetow. Welcome to the Café. Little bit quiet at the moment, but wait till one or two people come through the door, and start throwing things at each other, LOL. Meantime, have a coffee and a cake.
  9. 1 point
    DWBH, I think I read on FB today that someone is making a movie about the cult on River Road. I can't imagine why anyone would do this, but I guess some people want to profit from VB's crimes. I hope the young female victims, are allowed to tell their stories. I personally think VB got what he deserved.
  10. 1 point
    We DO know! Lindsay and Jess TOLD EVERYBODY! If you choose to ignore that, regardless of the outcome of any of these charges brought against ALL those named people above, then that’s your choice. It surprises me that you, in some kind of attempt to be “fair minded” to these perverts, choose to give them the benefit of the doubt, while at the same time applauding Lindsay and Jess for their courage and truthtelling and supporting them vociferously. You got FB friends among those named? Got any friends who are “forgivers” of people on that list? And, NO!, those are not accusations or aspersions. They are simple yes or no questions. As to the contents of the posts, you’ll have to ask fellow Greasespotter, Karl Kahler, who posted the posts I linked to right here on GSC just about 5 years ago. I would caution you to be a bit more objective about the evidence, facts, reported and confirmed, regarding those that are as complicit with Barnard as anyone could be, including his own wife. You’re almost sounding like an Attorney General or someone like that. LOL! Regarding what allegations I make, they are in black and white and there are 19 pages of court documents to boot. Modcat5 has given Frontczak free space to respond here. Where is he? Waiting for someone to write a “summary” of his fraternal complicity with his Lord and Master, The Christ In Victor Barnard? LOL! He got caught. So far, his most loyal accomplices have not. “The Arc of the Moral Universe is long, but it bends towards justice.” Peace, Rock.
  11. 1 point
    Thanks for your take on the matter, Way back when. Not everyone reacts the same to adversity. I'm glad you were able to put yourself on a better course. Not everyone can do that on their own. And, sometimes things aren't as they appear to be. I suggest you stick around awhile and get to know people a bit more before you pass judgement. Well, anyhow, have a coffee on the house and look around a bit more.
  12. 1 point
    These threads with TLC seem to have a LOT in common with when Mike engaged in his incessant worship of Wierwille. I'm not suggesting TLC is Mike. The voice is definitely different. But there are parallels in that there was (is) no end to the circular nature of the bickering.
  13. 1 point
    Those who intentionally hide and dismiss wierwille's plagiarism, research foibles, and sexual predation AND have made it their business to lord over others.........THOSE SPLINTER GROUPS are worse! At the starting gate of splintering from twi, they are hypocrites before God and man.
  14. 1 point
    Yeah, Raf........it is a blanket statement, because (obviously) none of us have looked into every splinter group out there. But.....the way I see it, a splinter group is one that has people who've split from twi and want to continue in "the Word as wierwille taught them", and/or research the rightly-divided word" utilizing pfal material, and/or band together in home fellowships to embrace the nostalgia of the early days of twi. I'm sure that there are other derivatives "of fellowship" out there who may have drifted to more church-oriented doctrines, but have basic relationships and friendship that stem back to twi-days. The swath of splinter groups is wide......I certainly would not dispute that. Why is it that those with titles think that they are EN-titled to lead a splinter group? As I said before.......corps coordinators should have THEIR BUTTS in the seats and let others teach and lead. Their pride and arrogance is what makes it WORSE. .
  15. 1 point
    I'm drawing a distinction between some of the FOLLOWERS (quietly trying to do godly things, helping others, praying) and those who rushed to the front to claim the microphone. We don't hear about the usual adherent anywhere because it's boring news- few want to hear about those who run soup kitchens and build houses, but they'd stop to hear about the corrupt "leader" who got caught. Those who pushed their way to the titles, IMHO, are in it for the titles.
  16. 1 point
    Back when lcm drove off 80% of twi in 88-89 with his "line in the sand", a fellow with the screen-name of Cesar Salad said he thought the biggest problem with lcm was that he wasn't able to get humble enough to "wash the apostles' feet" and so he wasn't fit for ministry work, since it was for HIS OWN glory and not for Jesus. It's no different for any other alleged "leader" that vpw trained, or vpw's machine trained. They all want to be the top dog- so all of them are UNWORTHY to be ministers. All of them want to be SERVED and not to SERVE.
  17. 1 point
    Exhibit C: Victor Barnard Exhibit D: Chris Geer
  18. 1 point
    Fun to speculate on the conversation in the prison cell between VB and Carmen T0rnamb3. D'ya think they'd spend time wondering why they were there, what they had done wrong? Perhaps VB would make Carmen a procurer again for him, this time of fresh young inmates so that they could be his bitches.
  19. 1 point
    Browsing and reading.... I think it has to do with perspective. What's the fundamental place from which I view this or any "technical" question in the Bible and from which I then get my view, my perspective that informs me? Christianity, faith in Christ, life in "the way, the truth and the life" is a rebirth, a new birth, a new beginning for me. So then, a question - if I didn't know anything more about it than that, could I still live it? If all I knew was that I now follow Jesus Christ, and accept my own human condition as one requiring mercy and forgiveness to succeed, that Jesus Christ has acted on my behalf and bridged a gap I would have been unable to, and that the full life possible is to be "born again of God's spirit", or God's "life".....then what? The most basic place to go from there is "living the life". And the question would be is it "on or off", active or passive, in wait mode for a future or in act mode, living now? I think we could agree it's on, it's active, it's a life to be lived. Everything I read in the New Testament encourages me to be patient and steadfast in living this new life now, while knowing death is not the end, that there is a future beyond that, a "hope" and that I must transition to that future. So again and still - what is this new life, this place from which I now live and work? The question of "gifts or manifestations" and related issues answers itself then - we have a new life, in Christ. We are born again of God's spirit, we are God's children, we are new creation in Christ, we have a fresh new set of answers and ideas to bring to our fellow man - Accept God's gift of forgiveness and mercy through Christ. Believe that God showed us the Way through death in Christ's resurrection, believe that God raised Him from the dead and that now we too can be raised into new life believing in that, and that the new life to come is our future. Believe it, say it. Now - forgive as you've been forgiven. Extend mercy as it's been shown to you. Lift others as you have been lifted. Pray to God and seek Him, pray for others and that they will do the same. Act as Jesus did, do as He did, live the new life without owing anyone anything other than to love them. I encourage people to a living faith, an active lifestyle that embraces all the fundamentals, all the time. "All nine all the time" sounds childish, boorish, to me now, like somethng I'd hear in a football game analysis. The whole attitude takes something eternal and incredible and turns it into a list of things-to-do and "believe for", greek words to be twisted and squeezed to gain some deeper understanding of what is already here, now and living in me. One thing I learned in the Way - men will torture the life out of each other and every word in the Bible while condemning each other to hell, to get to some elevated stated of enlightened understanding and ignore mercy, forgiveness, grace. There's that old saying - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"......in the Way we saw it as no, you can lead that horse to water and if you hose it down, stand it in 10 feet of water, show it pictures of water all day and say "water water water water water" a million times it will eventually just swallow whatever you're giving it to just get you to stop. It doesn't mean it liked it or won't bolt the minute you're not looking. And that isn't belief or faith or trust. How can God have the heart of a man or woman if they're only trying to please some lesser power or get something of lesser value than to please their Creator? The line of people that want to start some new improved version of Christianity that's better than what's come before is pretty long. The line of those who give a shit about people, care for them and are willing to be as passionate about learning to forgive and love as they are about cutting out their lesser competition is much shorter. “The Lord is gracious and full of compassion, slow to anger and great in mercy. The Lord is good to all, and His tender mercies are over all His works.” Psalm 145:8,9.