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  1. 1 point
    That's better than six feet under.
  2. 1 point
    I listened to the YouTube – it hit me as a lot of political and conspiratorial rhetoric. As far as putting my two cents in this thread “The 'end' is nigh...or is it ?!” I’ll say this – folks who have a fatalistic attitude toward a situation, often means they are expecting things to turn out badly and see no point in trying to change that outcome. I don’t consider myself in that category. I don’t ever like the idea of giving up – especially if it’s something worth fighting for – and I think if we all follow the good advice coming out of the science and health care communities that will help towards flattening the curve. We will get through this together – even though we’re six feet apart. Existentially speaking – perhaps the way of life as we know it will significantly change...and currently the situation will probably get worse before it gets better – some scientists speculate that even with the curve flattening from everyone’s efforts we could still see a resurgence in the fall… hopefully they’ll come up with a vaccine sooner than much later (I’ve heard a few folks in the news mention the typical span of time for developing a vaccine is in years). I’ve heard someone comment on this new “war” of humans vs covid-19 that it’s like a call for many of us to stay at home – so we don’t overtax the system…that’s something to think about…that’s some paradigm shift. This is not your typical conflict between another nation or group, with military personnel on the front lines of the battlefield. I’m not a medical professional, police officer, firefighter, grocery store / pharmacy / delivery worker, fast food drive-thru or restaurant take-out worker, waste management personnel, a technician who helps keep infrastructure (utilities, internet, etc.) up and running, or the many other essential jobs on “the front lines” who preserve life and our way of life. I’d rather be a part of the solution than part of the problem.
  3. 1 point
    I saw this revision of a familiar motto on Stephen Colbert - - collaboration in light of physical distancing: United we stand divided we fall
  4. 1 point
    I'll join you for that tea, George. Well, I went to church this morning. Online church. Those necessary recorded their parts - prayers, notices, songs, and of course sermon (very good, encouraging - we have a great new vicar) - and there's a chat box at the side where the congregation can log in and greet others, and another more private chat box for those who want prayer. It works really well, there's still a real sense of community and shared worship, and yet personal succour.
  5. 1 point
    I look at the 'last days' as being anytime directly after the day of Pentecost...the Messiah could have come back at any given moment.
  6. 1 point
    Nevertheless, keeping physical distance (6 feet) from each other is the MOST important thing we can all do to limit the reach of the virus in this pandemic.
  7. 1 point
    Hi George. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we've met, long long ago. Gartmore, Birminghamor possibly London?
  8. 1 point
    No problem. You didn't misinterpret my post. I just dragged it off-topic. I like the "holy kiss" advice, also. (Won't you be glad when it's OK to pick your nose again?)
  9. 1 point
    Am I? Ok. This actor or actress was in: Les Miserables (not the musical) Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl Shine
  10. 1 point
    He didn't mention Cartels, I'd just assumed that. Had no idea Cartels were a modern innovation, thought they'd been around since forever. We're going to meet the dude again, all of us, and we're going to live together with him forever, you know, for eternity. I'm trying hard to get my head around that and learn to put the past behind. It isn't easy sometimes.
  11. 1 point
    He and Barbara once travelled up to Aberdeen from Gartmore to visit my home church. Found out something rather interesting about him afterwards while chatting. Before he got in the word, he ran drugs across the Mexican border. Considering his Cartel links, I think he did try to do something worthwhile with his life. God will sort it all out after the return, so relax, everything will be put right. If he can sort things out for me, I don't think anyone else will be much of a problem.
  12. 1 point
    A Tribute to E.W. Kenyon E.W. Kenyon: A Tribute Essek William Kenyon (1867-1948) was considered one of the all-time greatest of God's teachers of the 19th and 20th century. He did more to teach and spread the truth of Christ's finished work on Calvary than perhaps any other ministry in the 20th century. Although he spent many years as an evangelist, and then a pastor, he was known as the teacher of teachers. Over the air on his radio broadcasts, he was known as "the faith builder." Every preacher and teacher has his mentors. For E.W. Kenyon, these were the leading evangelical preachers of his day: D.L. Moody, the American evangelist; Dr. A.J. Gordon, under whose ministry he rededicated his life to God; Dr. A.T. Pierson, one of the strongest voices for evangelism and an associate of D.L. Moody; and others of Moody's "warriors" such as R.A. Torrey, S.D. Gordon, A.B. Simpson, G. Campbell Morgan, Andrew Murry, F.B. Meyer. These were all household names in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Articles by many of these writers can be found in our Library. Having a long and fruitful ministry for over 50 years, the Word of God was taught by this devoted man of God with unusual clarity, as deep and profound revelations of the Word were preached and taught in the Divine simplicity of the Gospel. His sermons were filled with incredible love, inspiration and Divine anointing, and were all geared towards increasing the faith of the hearers. In the days when many holiness pioneers were teaching sanctification as a second work of grace, Kenyon boldly heralded the biblical truth of sanctification by the finished work of Jesus Christ alone. This won a decisive victory for God's people. Kenyon's ministry has inspired millions to believe God for healing, deliverance and salvation all upon the finished work which our Lord Jesus Christ accomplished for us on the cross! E.W. Kenyon was a man of God who lived a devoted life to God above reproach. When faced with the seemingly impossible adversities of life, he conquered them all confidently, and victoriously by his simple faith in the Word of God. Kenyon's ministry needs no other vindication when we realize that his faith teachings have produced the exact same transformations in his converts. It is no small surprise that his ministry continues today, 50 years after his death, through his writings -- which are producing the same faith results in those who read his books! Kenyon's biblical teachings place us into the realm of a superman! John 14:12, "He that believeth upon Me, the works that I do, shall he do also" becomes a living reality! Kenyon's life and ministry was so faith inspiring and uplifting that many ministries today emulate his life and faith teachings! The words and teachings of E.W. Kenyon are quoted by more ministers who teach faith and healing today than perhaps any other minister of the 20th Century! Some have suggested this is a negative thing, but this is a not a negative thing, but a positive one, because it clearly shows how one man of God has influenced an entire generation for God! The Apostle Paul continually reminded his disciples to say just what he said, because what he said was Scriptural! E.W. Kenyon was used by God to lead men back to faith in the Word of God. Men of God such as F.F. Bosworth, who had a notable healing ministry throughout his life, continually referred to and applied E.W. Kenyon's teachings throughout his entire life. John G. Lake was also fond of E.W Kenyon's teachings. The great healing revivalist T.L. Osborn considered E.W. Kenyon one of the greatest exponents and teachers on the subject of Divine Healing in his book "Healing The Sick." E.W. Kenyon influenced a generation for God! In a day when very little real faith in the Word of God existed, E.W. Kenyon began teaching people how to have faith based upon the Integrity of the Word of God alone. He taught and demonstrated to people of all walks of life, how to live by faith in the Word of God, based upon the sole foundation of the Authority of God's Word. He dominated and utterly mastered all circumstances supernaturally by his simple faith in God's Word. You can too! Kenyon's teachings will make your Bible a new Book! If you have never read any of E.W. Kenyon's books, I strongly encourage you to order some of E.W. Kenyon's books [see below], for your faith will be strengthened, Jesus will become an absolute personal Reality to you, and you will truly learn what is is to walk by faith in God's Word! His books will teach you how to have your own faith life, how to be a master of circumstances, how to pray for sick folk and see instant results, and most of all, how to have a close and deep relationship with God through our Lord Jesus Christ! Articles by E.W. Kenyon These extracts are from books and articles gathered from all over the Internet. Some are short; some are long. Enjoy! Claiming Our Rights The Danger of Seeking Experiences Do You Believe in Miracles? God-Inside Minded God Reproducing Himself The Helpless Babe The Integrity of the Word Jesus the Healer The Price is Paid Raised With Him The Reality of Redemption Satan Defeated! This Jesus Kind of Love What We Are In Christ Why Have the People Failed? Books by E.W. Kenyon See the complete collection of individual titles online. This page layout Copyright © 2000 Peter Wade. The Bible text in this
  13. 1 point
    I think it is fascinating to try and deconstruct wierwille’s patchwork theology - though I believe there was something mercurial about him - be it his temperament...mood...thought process...persona ...whatever...I don’t know - I’m not a real behavioral psychologist, I just pretend to be one on Grease Spot ...perhaps "mercurial" might describe how wierwille could assume various roles to fit his agenda (man of god, bible scholar, charismatic leader, a loving and caring pastor, etc.)...kinda like the T-1000 in Terminator 2....ok, that was silly - so here's the real thing where the T-1000 is the tile floor moving like liquid mercury he shape-shifts to move in on his prey. . But seriously - I think you do bring up some intriguing ideas...I tend to get frustrated trying to fathom the rhyme or reason on some of his theology...I mean, he wasn’t an absolute idiot - he had something going for him - after all he had mastered the art of deception ...but thinking back now to some of his live teachings to the corps, PFAL ‘77 and Advanced Class ‘79, I must say :wierwille was sometimes inconsistent in using the principles of interpretation that he himself taught in the original PFAL class and occasionally revealed his incompetency by failing to show the work of how he arrived at a conclusion. I remember times where he would just say “father showed me this”...the reason that bugs me now is because it's along the lines of a teacher suspecting a student had copied off of someone else during a math test - so the teacher asks "the alleged" copycat to "show me the work" and the student can't solve the problems from scratch. busted ! Trying to understand what drove his plagiarism might prove more interesting though. Now I’m no real theologian - but I pretend to be one on Grease Spot . I tend to think the common threads of his patchwork theology were his baser instincts for fame, power and pleasure.... Fame: Plagiarizing the work of others to garner the admiration and allegiance of folks. Power: Construe teachings and policies in such a way so as to manipulate and control followers; use his position of authority to take advantage of others. Pleasure: twist scripture and foster ideas to justify (and also to hide) his sexual predations and lascivious and decadent lifestyle.
  14. 1 point
    T-Bone, that's the only way I've ever done it. I didn't know the other way to get the thread! In answer to the original poster, what I know offhand isn't much. I know that he started "his ministry" while on the denomination's dime. While taking his paycheck for work as their pastor, he was quietly looking for enough material and enough people to make it alone as a separate church organization. (I thought of that while reading the Pillai links above- looks like Pillai- or whatever his real name was- was one of several people making up a sound-alike organization that sounded like an existing, respected church group. vpw might have copied him.) While vpw was doing that, he was trying to make contacts and connections. When he first set up "his ministry" called "The Way Inc" , his correspondence reflected both an ecumenical perspective as well as a Trinitarian one. The ecumenical one made sense to me whether he was sincere or not. If he was sincere, he might have considered an eclectic approach to Christianity. (When we thought he was legit, he resembled this to me.) If he was not sincere, it served him well to claim ecumenism as his ticket to enter where other Christians were. So, he either claimed to be a Trinitarian at the time, or he thought he was one at the time. vpw could always be counted upon to follow odd or idiosyncratic positions. Some of the time, I think it was because he could fake knowing esoteric things if he could spit back something esoteric that someone else said. Some of the time, I think it was because he thought obscure things were more marketable. I think the change in vpw's position was after his exposure to one of B.G. Leonard's books, "The Godhead, or The Water in the Bottle". It doesn't look like the same thing vpw taught, but it probably got him thinking. The exact position he arrived at was not the same as Leonard, Stiles, Kenyon, or Bullinger claimed to hold, so I don't know where he got it. He was so famously UNoriginal that it's my opinion he picked it up SOMEWHERE rather than actually arriving at it himself.
  15. 1 point
    Skyrider, WordWolf and any others I’ve failed to mention, I really appreciate the detailed work you all have done regarding wierwille’s plagiarism. I’ve got an open Word doc that I keep amending by copying the link to the starter post of threads that deal with plagiarism – Something I was wondering – there used to be a way you could download the whole thread on the old Grease Spot website – but this new format doesn’t seem to have that feature; if it does, would someone be so kind as to tell me how…I know at the bottom of the page there are various ways to share the page but all they appear to do is provide a link to the page…so again – just to be clear on what I’m looking for is a way I can download the entire thread. ...for now what I've been doing is copying and pasting a page at a time (from Grease Spot to a laptop Word doc); takes a lot of time and since I am a neat freak - I am compelled to reformat and delete all the big spaces in between some stuff. I don't mean to be such a worry wort but I feel if I don't have a neat and complete record of this stuff we're doomed ...just kidding...it felt good to be so melodramatic - even if it was only for A quadrillionth of a second...
  16. 1 point
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PFAL: A plagiarized (stolen) class .... run in a church basement (St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church) .... and one of the new students (Dr. E.E. Higgins) .... introduces wierwille to the influential research of E.W. Bullinger .... whereby vpw gains access to further plagiarize another. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In the Van Wert church basement, vpw ran Leonard's class. No charts. No books. No syllabus. One of the twenty-seven new students in attendance was Dr. E.E. Higgins, an osteopathic physician. She is pictured on page 99 of Mrs. Wierwille's book.....standing behind VPW and next to Dorothy Owens. Mrs. W's book [p.102] ..... "Dr. Higgins was the person who introduced Dr. Wierwille to the great and influential works of an Englishman named E.W. Bullinger (1837-1913). She gave Dr. Wierwille his first Companion Bible, containing the notes and appendix information of E.W. Bullinger, and a copy of How to Enjoy the Bible, also written by Dr. Bullinger." "After reading these books by Dr. Bullinger, Dr. Wierwille wanted to consume his Journal of Biblical Literature, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible and his other writings. Dr. Wierwille obtained the book The Witness of the Stars which aroused his curiosity concerning the star that led the wise men to the house of the young child Jesus. He read all the research he could find....."
  17. 1 point
    Obviously plagiarism was the linchpin of wierwille’s “ministry “.
  18. 1 point
    Thanks WW........yes, the different names of Pillai is very interesting. During the 1940s thru early-'50s........wierwille found "influential" men via three ways: Radio broadcasts.......programs and announcements Church congregants and others......relaying information of upcoming speaker, event or book Happenstance or divine intervention (as wierwille often claimed) Clearly, the E. Stanley Jones Ashram was announced well in advance.....as church leaders from near and far registered for this conference and traveled far distances to be there. This was in July 1944.......during gas rationing and World War II. Those four contacts: 1) Jones, 2) Moseley, 3) Daily and 4) Clark led the 27 year old wierwille to other men, books and writings. As noted above, every Sunday morning ( 1941, 1942) before wierwille went to church or his office, he listened to Rev. Charles Fuller's radio program......"The Old-Fashioned Revival Hour." This evangelist, Rev. Fuller, reached a vast amount of people with these radio broadcasts. On page 94.....Mrs. W depicts that Albert Cliffe was "a cold Episcopalian" until he heard Fuller's morning sermon......a phenomenal thing occurred. Cliffe was healed and born again......and later, wrote Let Go and Let God. Albert Cliffe was an invited guest of the Spiritual 40 Club in January 1953...and taught extensively on "The Miracle of Believing." The roots of wierwille's teaching, "The Law of Believing," can be traced back to Albert Cliffe. Another radio program.......E.W. Kenyon's morning broadcast, "Kenyon's Church of the Air." This program was an inspiration and blessing to thousands across the country. One woman who had brief involvement with the wierwilles told them her mother was a member of Kenyon's church......and thus, vpw began studying Kenyon's writings: Kenyon's fixed goal: Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman....." Writings: The Blood Covenant The Two Kinds of Faith The Two Kinds of Knowledge Identification Jesus the Healer Interesting of note, wierwille does not gain influential direction or contacts from the 1948 Pikes Peak degree-mill "educators. " None is recorded. Mrs. Wierwille's book gives a half-page overview of this commencement with a picture [p.67]. The brevity speaks volumes. .
  19. 1 point
    "Fear is the sand in the machinery of life."...E.Stanley Jones Even this quote, for which Wierwille is famously remembered, originated with a source other than himself
  20. 1 point
    Look at this expansive work! How much of it inspired wierwille? How much of it did he plagiarize? E. Stanley Jones books.......... The Christ of the Indian Road (1925). German transl. Der Christus der indischen Landstraße. Jesu Nachfolge in Indien by Paul Gäbler (1928). Christ at the Round Table (1928). German transl. Christus am Runden Tisch. Offene Aussprachen unter Jesu Augen in Indien by Paul Gäbler (1930). The Christ of Every Road – A study in Pentecost (1930). German transl. by H[einrich] Fellmann (1931) The Christ of the Mount – A Working Philosophy of Life (1931). German transl. by H[einrich] Fellmann (1933) Christ and Human Suffering - Hodder & Stoughton, First English Edition, August 1933. Christ’s Alternative to Communism (1935) US title Christ and Communism (1935) UK title Victorious Living (1936) (devotional) The Choice Before Us (1937) Christ and Present World Issues (1937) Along the Indian Road (1939) Is the Kingdom of God Realism? (1940) Abundant Living (1942) (devotional) How to Pray (1943) The Christ of the American Road (1944) The Way (1946) (devotional) Mahatma Gandhi: An Interpretation (1948); 2nd ed.: Gandhi – Portrayal of a Friend (Abingdon, 1993) The Way to Power and Poise (1949) (devotional) How to be a Transformed Person (1951) (devotional) Growing Spiritually (1953) (devotional) Mastery (1953) (devotional) Christian Maturity (1957) (devotional) Conversion (1959) In Christ (1961) (devotional) The Word Became Flesh (1963) (devotional) Victory Through Surrender (1966) Song of Ascents (1968) (autobiography) The Unshakable Kingdom and the Unchanging Person (1972) The Reconstruction of the Church – On what Pattern? (1970) The Divine Yes (1975) (posthumously)
  21. 1 point
    Hey Jim......good to "see" you again. To answer your two questions.......I have, again, searched Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, to attain this information. Yes, vpw was ordained in June 1941 as an Evangelical and Reformed minister. On July 6, 1941 "reverend wierwille" was installed as minister for St. Jacob's Evangelical and Reformed Church in Payne, Ohio. With this little church and limited activity, vpw was in constant search of other avenues and opportunities. Every Sunday morning before wierwille went to church or his office, he listened to Rev. Charles Fuller's radio program......"The Old-Fashioned Revival Hour." This evangelist, Rev. Fuller, inspired vpw with his charisma and moving sermons. In June 1944, the wierwille family of four, soon to be five, moved to Van Wert. The St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church enticed wierwille to pastor their church as it was a bigger church with a parsonage to accommodate his growing family. Van Wert was located on one of the crossroads of America. U.S. Route 127 ran north and south from Canada to Florida, and U.S. Route 30, called the Lincoln Highway, reached from the East Coast to the West Coast. 1) When did wierwille renounce the trinity? As far as I know.......there is nothing definitive in Whiteside's book, The Way: Living in Love or Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, that documents this transition. Clearly, wierwille built his ministry and mystique on "how he took truths from all these sources and put it all together." Even in the vaunted pfal class......there is one point where wierwille gets all hyper-excited and claims of Jesus Christ.......that he is coming back as "God Almighty." In my opinion...........wierwille's narcissism was undiagnosed, undetected and advancing in leaps and bounds by 1972. After power-grabbing the youth minister movements of Steve Heefner [The Way East] and Jimmy Doop's ministry work [The Way West]......wierwille consolidated power and funneled all monies into twi's headquarters. And, with in-residence corps in training (cough, cough)......wierwille's persona as "the man of God" had evolved to the point that he refused to be questioned or reveal his evolving on certain doctrines or beliefs. Others here at GSC might know the timeline better than I........but it seems to me the 1975 book "Jesus Christ is NOT God" was his definitive way of staking out his position that ran contrary to a widely-accepted denominational church doctrine. Wierwille had been searching and learning from his contemporaries since the mid-40s.........and, as documented in Mrs. W's book, most all of these men were teaching outside the confines of denominational churches of their day and time. In conclusion......I would say that attempts to get into the thicket of explaining the "trinity" was something most preferred to avoid. When people are moving thru the struggles of life and living, shortages and famine, the Great Depression, World War II, etc.......perhaps, even clergymen understandably kept it on the back burner. 2) Secondly, did VPW ever mention the evangelist William M. Branham? The short answer is no ........I never heard wierwille, or in his writings, ever mention Branham. Mrs. Wierwille's book gives us a timeline and listing of men who were influential to her husband and there is not even an acknowledgement of Branham. Although this book is sanitized and strategically attempts to prop up wierwille in every way ........it is clear that one of the MAJOR breakout points was in July 1944. Wierwille was a young preacher of 27 years old when he rode with three other people to North Carolina to attend E. Stanley Jones' Ashram ( a religious retreat ). E. Stanley Jones was nearly 60 years old at that time. He had amassed a mountain of powerful biblical work, writings and good will to others.......as church leaders from near and far gathered at this Ashram to learn from him. Young wierwille is among the younger participants and stands in the back row when the picture is taken to document the event. Rufus Mosely was also a key-noted speaker. So, when vpw later boasts of his time with "Brother Stanley"...... it is doubtful that wierwille had any personal contact with him at all. And, if he did, it would have been very brief at a retreat/conference with 220 or more. Rufus Mosely did visit wierwille later in Ohio on two separate occasions......and then, moved on. Starr Daily and Glenn Clark were also at this North Carolina Ashram. So, when one goes to the Founders' Room at twi's auditorium and sees those 12-14 pictures on the wall...... keep in mind, that FOUR of those men were from this one event: 1) Jones, 2) Moseley, 3) Daily, and 4)Clark. Birds of a feather, flock together.........and wierwille was "flocking" with those OUTSIDE the denominational church system, per se. In all this, I see wierwille as a "searching opportunist"......not as someone who wanted to infuse this gained knowledge back into his Van Wert church congregants. His narcissist pathologies were driving his interests and agenda toward a position of power and control over his surroundings, over others. Wrangling with church boards was growing tiresome. With each passing year, wierwille was searching for a path outside the confines of the church.......and B.G. Leonard's class and class-based ministry, in 1953, provided that lane to run in. Wierwille took it (literally). Whether it was another man's radio program, books, teachings or pamphlets.........wierwille garnered from these men, in full. Wierwille did not produce anything original. His claim "to fame".......as he said, was "putting it all together." Mrs. Wierwille's book unveils the timeline, the sequence, of wierwille's gleanings and relationships. Truth be told, some of it was pure happenstance......like when Harry Wierwille was traveling thru Tennessee in 1953 and ran across Bishop K.C. Pillai at a Christian children's camp called the "Tennessee Mountain Mission' [p.96]. Pillai, like other men through the years, was invited to Ohio to teach wierwille and his close-knit followers. In this manner, wierwille accumulated his "wall of fame" of men who were influential to his life. And then, after attending (twice) B.G. Leonard's class in February 1953 and July 1953 in Calgary, Alberta..... wierwille taught this same class for several years. Along the way, he was introduced to Bullinger's work so more research material was added.....and thereby, vpw had enough to RE-package the material. So, after the filming of the 1967 pfal class.......the doctrine was "set in stone." Within years, twi became a closed society...... a cult. .
  22. 1 point
    Yeah, T-Bone........if followers would only scrutinize [ aka - research ] ..... 1) wierwille's background and 2) the plagiarized work. Ain't it ironic.........folks who CLAIM to cleave to wierwille's research will not research wierwille's background and deception!!


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