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As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this). Consider this, Vern: Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to." In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way? This is just my opi

(Hope OK to do this; don't want the discussion to be buried in the old way tapes!) A few quotes from the Old Way Tapes thread that are on this excellent needed topic IMO, and my thankful reply: He was grooming us to extend our bounderies of acceptance. (Sorry, the belows didn't copy well) [Waysider posted: He was grooming us to extend our bounderies of acceptance.] [T-Bone posted: I agree. Wierwille’s modus operandi was in developing an undercurrent that grew stronger as one became more involved with the organization (like joining programs a

And he says all that with a great big smile on his face, and something of a chuckle in his voice. Love the way he says, TWI wants to help people become debt-free. I bet they have no idea of preparing a proper budget (a genuine budget to help a needy family that can hardly feed and clothe the kids), making arrangements with creditors for full or partial repayment on terms, what state or other benefits the people might be entitled to; and getting effective help from charities, power companies and other like organisations. I have helped hundreds of people become debt-free and I love d

Been there and done that. It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online. And then a couple years after that before I realized God wasn't going to "life his protection" from my life if I did. The first time I read a thread from Greasespot was when I saw a print out of it on Rosalie's desk while I was cleaning. I wasn't prying, just dusting around things. But I do remember that moment very well. At that point I was already questioning the things I saw at HQ, and it struck me as odd that the woman in charge of the ministry

@Lifted Up My post in this thread is the first time I've ever let the universe know about what happened. I was in FC 18 if anyone was there or knows anyone from that time. I know the exact person who did it and her entire family is still strongly in TWI as far as I know. "Saying" those words in an internet forum to complete strangers made me reach out to my brother who is younger than me and I told him about it. All he said was he knew I've been dealt bad cards my whole life and didn't even want to talk about it. I am 6 months shy of 40 and haven't cried this much in decades, or ever

There is a small number of survivors still alive, and some have written books. Others have died in the last decade or two. There's talk of 6 million people of Jewish extraction. There are also millions more of other groups: gypsies, darker skinned people, homosexuals, disabled people - and intellectuals. Some estimate these others at about 4 million; they're often completely overlooked. Even now, the true numbers murdered by the regime are unknown. For this reason, I'm very alarmed when any bunch of people start demonizing any other group. It starts somewhere. Let's demonize ..

I like the total of 1 comment at the very bottom of their web page. But I must say...I really like the comment. LOL

Being separated physically by many miles from our families presents it’s challenges. On our minds quite often is how they are doing, what’s the latest movie they watched, how is life with the new boy friend, did they gat the package you sent? Endless little things that make our hearts grow fonder each day. When I was in the Navy in Viet Nam, without a doubt, mail call was the high light of our day. We could not wait for a letter from home or a package containing cookies or candy. A picture of our family or buddies was the absolute greatest thing. Finding out the grandparents were doing j

Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980? Of course.....twi's practices have been self-serving.....and only self-serving......for a long, long time. It didn't have to end this way (spiraling down to its doom). It seems to me, those years 1977-1979 were ripe with outreach and "Word in Culture." With musical groups and outreach......some professional athletes from the NFL and tennis were taking pfal. A professional bull-riding clow

Mornin' y'all, I was born into this ministry about 21 years ago to two Way Corps(e? lol) ministers who worked at HQ from I don't know when to 2013. That means- yes, your logical inferences are correct- I had to spend my entire childhood living in f*cking New Knoxville, OH. There were, I think, only two other kids my age who were born in '98 and stayed through '13; certainly there were none whose parents were fired in '13. So I'm sure whatever poor guy they've got monitoring this has already deductively identified me- but I don't care, I've already put my name to a review on Google Maps

That's why it's good to hear alternate points of view- sometimes what you don't see is more important than what you DO. In regards to the GSC: A) the regulars who post here spend a few minutes a week here. (Any spending more are socializing and that's not twi-related.) B) The vast majority of people who've posted here have moved on with their lives and don't even check in here any more. Some places consider that bad for the place. However, since the GSC is partly about helping people move on and prosper after surviving twi, we consider them SUCCESS STORIES. They moved on an

Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time, or season. We are to do as Jesus did, in heart, soul, mind, and strength. That means: loving and obeying God. And then, loving our neighbours (=those around us, those we come into contact with). It doesn't mean: following all the ritual that Jesus followed, and much of which he poo-poo'd.

Well, I've been thinking about that... and how easily people get conned (in general) these days. So I found an intriguing essay about classic literature that contrasts with VP quite well. https://medium.com/@spencerbaum/3-reasons-why-you-should-read-more-classic-literature-in-2019-e762cb5c910c Call me Ishmael. The famous opening sentence of Moby Dick, so short and provocative, is welcoming and familiar to the 21st century reader, who is accustomed to snappy prose with short sentences and lots of white space. A few sentences later in Melville’s masterpiece we get

"The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearly a commandment in God's word) he gets a hiding. Wait till you face Jesus Christ- and your face will turn pale for rejecting what is clearly a commandment of God. I have showed you in so many ways why it's an immutable commandment of God- and scriptures, left, right and centre- I dont have any hiddent agenda unlike TWI. But if you want to analyse yourself not to do God's sabbath keeping c

"Drive-By Posters"...ah, those were the days! Greasespot Cafe is one of the things that helped me to get a post-TWI life. From the early days, when I was still an innie, venting about various nonsensical Way things, to being an almost daily poster and moderator; commiserating with other posters who were getting divorced from hard-core Way cultists to eventually moving on to other things. I've had the privilege to meet 30 or 35 of you over the years at the Jack Daniels Weinie Roasts, a wedding, my Oakspear 2002 North American Tour and some of you stopping in Lincoln for a cup of coff

Yup, the millet is long gone, but the gut reaction lingers. Ugh. In case you don't know, that's an analogy for the "Word" that VPW fed us, amounting to a con of Himalayan proportions. And I should know. I've actually been to the Himalayan mountains … in May 2009. Socks, eye-witnesses willing to give their two cents are few and far between. I get "fan mail" through the Contact page on my website from former Wayfers either defending VPW and "shame on me," or from some too afraid to speak up or out due to relatives still in TWI or due to their own weariness … which I totally understand. Who

You're welcome! Yes, I have. A little early in my youth but moreso in later adulthood. I've read quite a bit about it and have some favorites in the field, although not many. Philosophy wasn't a popular term in the Way anytime I was involved (68 - 89). Philosophy is often considered antithetical to Christianity which is thought to be anti-intellectual by many. That line of thought contrasts Christianity the religion as being a set of revealed truths, a faith in a revelation that defines life with Philosophy as an inquiry into the fundamentals of life that tries to consider it

Doing the word... well, I'll be out DOING THE WORD leading my team of four Street Pastors this evening, 10pm-3am. We will be handing out warm clothing if needed, and hot drinks to rough sleepers; picking up glassware (whole and broken) to keep damaging stuff away from causing injury or becoming weapons; helping drunk people to sober up sufficiently to get a taxi home; giving out flipflops to girls whose shoes are painful by the end of the night; helping people locate friends and their hotels/bed for the night; and offering kind words to any who are in need - the lost, the lonely, the bereaved

Why were those SIX YEARS (1992-1998) so agonizing?.........not because of the good-hearted folks in Oklahoma, that's for sure. But because of twi's "mission-creep" from elitists at headquarters (cough, cough) who dogged the way corps constantly with faxes, corps teachings, reports, phone calls, verbal attacks, encroaching legalism and more......proclaiming (and further indoctrinating us) that we were the (only) faithful remnant of God's Household standing on "The Word." Yearly themes like......Living Sanctified, Crossing the Bridge into God's Prevailing Word, and the new, upcoming class seri

Welcome, Zanezim, I hope you find some good virtual camaraderie here. I did. I spent 17 years in TWI (1970-1987) and the lovely, non-manipulative people I met but don't see anymore is what I miss most about that time. Over the years, though, I've made new friends whose love is not dependent upon whether I am like-minded with them about the Bible. Relief! Cheers and happy holiday season to you and to everyone here at GSC. Penworks

Think you might need another category. Life as a whole; time in TWI; time recovering from TWI. That's a harder time to quantify. From when one leaves, to the time one stops thinking like a Wayfer, or stops startling at key jargon words that have acquired other meanings; or until one has abandoned unhealthy TWI concepts. I call the ten years post-TWI the lost years - I was there in body (even doing things that I ought to have enjoyed), but in such a state that my mind was only partly there and I was actually in a state of profound depression. I think my recovery didn't start till abou

Wayfefe

It seems that we occasionally get posters who think they have some sort of inalienable rights to things they don't. Here's some friendly reminders. 1) The GSC is a private messageboard that is open to the public. The Admins and Mods determine the rules, and have final say on all disagreements. 2) You don't have any authority to overturn their decisions. You can make a logical case for something. If they disagree, you can either drop it or refuse. 3) Picking fights with staff results in warnings, deleted posts, deleted threads, and temporary or permanent bans. 4)

God bless you Grace! I believe your courage and empathy is a big deal - and a blessing - not only to the folks here at Grease Spot but also to anyone else who crosses your path.

First off, if you're trying to get someone to settle their differences with somebody else, shouldn't you try to get them to confront their demons, face-to-face? [This site is more about all the survivors OF those who held the microphone. Those who held the microphone have had plenty of chances to speak up. The GSC gave/gives a voice to those whose voice was stolen. However, the former and present leaders, as well as former and current members, are welcome to post here. People are free to use their own names as well as pseudonyms. A few of them HAVE posted here under pseudonyms.

Beguiled, it's my time, and energy. I love reading the various posts on the GSC. Some I agree with, some I don't. But, even with those I disagree with, I still find the posts interesting. I personally had no idea of all the drama, that went on in TWI, until I read all the posts here. Back when I was in TWI, everything was Moonlight, and Roses, or so it seemed. However, since I started reading the posts here at the GSC, I have learned that TWI, f--cked over tons of it's people in various ways. For many of us, we spent our youth, money, and energy in various TWI programs. Youth, money, a

THIS. THIS. This is why I could not leave the group for so long. 1. My family went into the FC when I was just over the age limit. So, my entire family left me behind. - RELATIONSHIP WEAKENED 2. Abandoned, I had nowhere else to go, so I obeyed my parents and went WOW so that I could have some kind of support around me. WOW became my family. FAMILY RELATIONSHIP REPLACED BY TWI 3. I stayed in Las Vegas with some of the WOWs on my team afterwards - where else would I go? My family was still in FC for another 2 or 3 years. FAMILY EVEN MORE WEAKENED 4. Family was

Beguiled, I don't give much time to TWI. I do visit here from time to time, mainly to see if there are any new people or visitors who can be helped. I learned stuff there (including "what it is not"), and I've learned stuff in the very good church that I attend now. You may find that most of the continuing Christians who continue to post here from time to time think much the same. Can't speak for others, but I find TWI increasingly diminutive in my rear view mirror. Too much to deal with in the here and now. I know the scars and long-lasting outcomes in terms of my life, both n

Hi Beguiled, I am blown away by your openness and honesty! That’s a tough situation with your parents choosing TWI over you - I hope something works out down the road. Not that you are part of the problem – but rather you are part of the solution – because they are the ones still stuck in the rabbit hole of a bizarre mindset…There’s something so hypocritical about TWI claiming that PFAL develops more harmony in the home (as stated on the back of the green PFAL sign-up card) and yet – truth be told - many longstanding grads found themselves in ultimatum-type-situations…with the pressu

Just finished reading the book. it was very easy to follow with a linear one dimensional storyline as well as it should be - a straightforward recounting of subjective events as they happened to one person. There was some, but not much, introspection during the telling of the tale because, for the most part, it wasn't neccessary; but rather the telling of the struggles for survival and mere existence. It's a tale that can only be fully understood by those who endured the horrors, but it's a tale we as humans should take heed. Reviewing the flow of this thread is a good reminder for me o

"Twinky said..."? No, no, no, no, no! Vern said! And Twinky says: "Yeah, riiiight...!" "Cease to be part of the problem"??? (They are the problem!") Be teachable"? (Don't make me laugh!) "See us and know we are His" (see us and run a mile, more like). Since TWI's own MO since its beginning was to be contentious, and thereby to be ... "dividing the body of Christ" I don't seen how things are going to change. What's your position statement, Vern? And where are your efforts to (re)join as "members of Christ’s Body" and fellowship with actual Christians, and even (ha!)

Yep. Everything I, and others on this thread, goes right over your head. We don't live in OT times, Waxit. We have a little more freedom than that. I am not "finding legal loopholes" (which you seem to think is wrong) - I am explaining how law works. I am jolly sure that God intended man to take regular rest from his normal labours. Absolutely! And I have always made it clear to you (should you choose to look) that I do exactly that. I set out in detail how I enjoy my "sabbath rest" and use it to glorify God. I love doing that. Where I absolutely do

Hi all! Wow what a trip this is here. I was marked and avoided in 1995. How many people get to say they were shunned? I became involved in 84 Little Rock AFB Ar. Was a WOW Amb and advance class survivor. They started to get a bug up their butts when I decided all the dead end jobs were dead end and wanted to go to college. The twisted justification on the Ways part was how dare I rely on education and advancement to supply my needs. Also Martindale was becoming a person who seemed far from Christ like. There was already strike one from moving to go to school.My questioning the crap coming out

That was a crazy time. I remember in late ‘69, the US held its first draft lottery, which gave young men a random number corresponding to their birthdays. I got a really high number from the lottery and so was never drafted. I think I have something like survivor’s guilt... whenever I meet and get to talking with a Viet Nam vet – at some point I get teary eyed and choked up. The last time that happened to me was a few years ago – on vacation in Westcliffe, Colorado. I paid the check for him and his family at this little bar & grill…To all you vets and current military, thank you for your s

Waxit: You point out you have had to explain the same verse several times and want to not dwell on it again. Fair Enough. In the same vain, why do you ignore responding numerous times to the following verses? Colossians 2:16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Romans 14:5-6: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not t

Most of the Christian world does not observe the Sabbath on Saturday. Why not get your message out to the rest of them, instead of butting heads with a few at GSC who you know have rejected your logic? Visit the local Catholic Church to see if you can get the priest to close their doors on Sunday, and have mass exclusively on Saturday. If he won’t, keep going back week after week, showing him the Word, and start throwing insults st him. Next hit the LDS church down the street. Pull all the missionaries aside and see if they will tell Salt Lake City to finally worship when God want

I guess at the time of my HQ assault in 1979, which was not too long after Rome City was acquired, the "loosening up" doctrine had been given to most of the corps, and I suppose staff that weren't corps. In "Undertow" Charlene Edge notes that when she learned that VPW had many women, and that many had been hurt, she notes that she also learned that there were women willing to go along with this doctrine. I figure that included helping to loosen up some of the men. I had not heard specifically about anybody, female or male, as young as you were being hurt, but it doesn't shock me. Yes, when so

I remember one day, in FellowLaborers, looking in the mirror and suddenly wondering "How did I become this person I'm looking at in the mirror?" It wasn't one of those moments where you somberly ponder the situation. It was jolting and instantaneous, like an unexpected slap in the face. It was depressing and horrifying at the same time. I chalked it up to unrenewed mind and silently chanted some since forgotten retemory verse.

Yeah I got a life...just so happens Grease Spot is an enjoyable part of my life. Raf, cheers to you and Paw and the moderators and everyone else that keeps this place going. stay safe!

Waxit: "The 7th day Sabbath was universally accepted by all and observed by both Jews,Gentiles and the apostles/leadership Acts 13: 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God." ===================================

Waxit: "Rocky, first of all Mark is not my enemy and secondly I definitely do not have the final word on what pleases God. Only the Lord Jesus Christ will judge rigteously in the end Only God knows who will and who will not enter the kingdom of God. I dont know whether you give a hoot about the sabbath which is a really important topic but instead you are picking to comment on something that you should think about before you tap on the keyboard To be honest, I did not want to comment to Mark's reply because I thought he might be in the twilight zone but i thought wait a minute,

Both may be true accounts of what wierwille actually said. I don’t think it’s a matter of conflation on wierwille’s part – where he had combined the two ideas. Maybe in a deluded mind that’s usually inclined towards plagiarism the source of the idea for The Way Tree simply “evolved” ... ...and the more I think about it, the imagery of the way tree may very well be the moot point in all this...as far as the structure - how the whole organization was arranged to supposedly function "properly", it does seem to emulate the AA somewhat - although I think TWI's HQ is far more overreaching in a

That gives me an idea for a bumper sticker: sleepwalkers are living the dream

I thought my parents were important too. Wonderful examples, both, of Christian love and support and selfless service to others, including respect and care for their own elders, taught to me and still carried on by me. I never understood why the "Wierwille family" was so important - and why TWI attempted to teach me that my own family was less to be respected and honoured. It didn't seem right at the time, and it never became "right" in my eyes. I'm jolly sure it wasn't right in God's eyes. If nothing else, they should have been honoured as brothers and sisters in the faith. Instead,

Thanks for the link - - and here is link to the 2nd part part 2 of vpw and plagiarism …and at the end of part 2, Charlene has this note: “Note from Charlene: Anyone who ever worked in The Way’s Biblical Research Department, as I did, knows the truth about Wierwille plagiarizing from others. We used to rationalize this by saying, well, he never said he taught anything original, he said he took what he learned from others, put it together (like a puzzle), and “made it accurate.” Really? Accurate according to whom?” The fact that the Bible clearly shows lying and stealing ar

Welcome to Grease Spot, Ghosted !!! Thanks for sharing your story. Enjoy your visit here. I was in Family Corps 11 and know firsthand how much bondage and stress all that stuff can put on someone – kids as well as adults. Grease Spot is great for encouraging freedom of thought and developing critical thinking skills.

Hello and welcome. PTSD is not uncommon among twi survivors, especially people who grew up in twi who now have to learn how to live all over again. As you no doubt know, differences of opinion are ENCOURAGED here, not simply allowed. So, you'll find posters on opposite sides of most discussions (at least when it's busy here.) That having been said, it's (obviously?) true that religious beliefs here run the gamut, ranging occasionally between "shut down all churches worldwide and arrest all the clergy" (a slight exaggeration, but it's sounded like that here at times) t

The coolest thing about Christianity is that it makes for a lot of wonderful friendships and relationships. I had to learn to not treat it as a company or a business or even an ideal that I was trying to put into action. In the beginning of my Christian faith I didn't see it that way but as time went on I gave little bits of that away in trade for my work, for acceptance and a social circle I felt I could depend on - boy, you find out real quickly in the Way that they really DO NOT have any friends when it comes to The Word, and in order to stay on year after year you have to basically ju