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  1. 6 points
    Ok, here goes. I grew up mostly at HQ - not in the frying pan; in the fire. The standards for children there were ridiculous. Basically, be perfect. Listen, remember, obey. Be a good example. Don’t be a stumbling block. Dress appropriately. Speak respectfully. Don’t be angry. Don’t be sad, be thankful. I watched some kids, especially as teenagers, become angry and rebellious. Others, like me, became as compliant and people-pleasing as a person could possibly be. I was complimented often on my “meekness.” In childhood, this meant a rather controlled atmosphere. As a teenager, it was absolutely suffocating. I’m now well into middle age, and I find that I have very little sense of self. The mental work I’m doing now is mostly about separating my “cult self” from my “authentic self” (as Steven Hassan labels it in Combatting Cult Mind Control) - I also think of it as new man vs. old man with the new man being false behaviors smothering my real personality. I’ve always thought I had pretty good self esteem. I realize now I feel fine about my cult self - being disciplined, keeping things clean, being a high achiever, serving others to the detriment of self. I have a deep self-loathing for that hidden authentic self that isn’t “perfect” - is spontaneous, joyful, sexual, angry, free, artistic, childlike, grieving. It’s taken months of counseling, thinking, reading, and agonizing just to realize this. Still working on how to let it out. Another part of growing up that still affects me is hyper-vigilance about “danger.” The idea that the devil was out to get us; and if you are “out of alignment and harmony” you’ll be outside of God’ protection; and we were taught that people we knew had DIED because they didn’t follow their schedules or didn’t follow their leadership’s advice; this adds up to a brain trained to be alert to the smallest inconsistencies in the environment (PTSD). Then put in the strong imagery of Athletes of the Spirit. My friends and I were obsessed with it. We learned the seed of the serpent dance and would argue over who got to be her and which devil spirits we got to be. That imagery was so strong for our young minds. Taking the advanced class made it even more vivid and more urgent. Then, if you were at HQ in the 90s, you remember lunch time. LCM would talk for hours every week sometimes, lecturing about the things God was “showing him” or about how we all needed to be so vigilant or about people - telling their personal lives and struggles to everyone and talking about how the “adversary” had gotten into their lives and how devil spirits were infiltrating their minds. Is it any wonder I was terrified to drink? To try drugs? That has seemed like a good thing to me for a long time, but I now realize I was so constrained by fear that the mere idea of losing control sends me into a near panic. It wasn’t good. And along with all that came the underlying belief that if I wasn’t all those “good” things - a strong disciple, believing positively, behaving according to the Word, doing what my spiritual overseers told me to do, blah blah blah - I wouldn’t be loved. Discipline of children was so strongly emphasized (and LCM criticized parents so heavily) that as a child, I subconsciously picked up that I wasn’t good enough and wasn’t lovable if I wasn’t right in line. Now, as a parent, I really do think at least my mother loved me unconditionally, and she told me that when I left the way. I have a lot of family left in the way. I stay anonymous because of it. Still afraid of losing their love over my “disobedience.” I guess posting here is one way for me to push back and not allow myself to be silenced, even if I’m not fully out there. Baby steps. In a lot of ways I was lucky. I went to college instead of going Wow or Way Disciple right away. I of course wanted to go in the corps - because how else were you really somebody? - but was lucky enough to get through college and realize I didn’t want to do that. I spent my 20s wading through all the doctrines I tried so hard to keep believing in, but I just couldn’t get them to make sense with real life. I rejected them. And didn’t realize the mess all this has made of my psyche. I was a true believer. I did the things you were supposed to do. I toed the line. I put my heart and soul into it. And all I got was this broken spirit.
  2. 5 points
    So, I’ve lurked here for a long time, and now with my heart pounding, have created an account and am saying hello. I’ve been out of TWI for over 10 years; it took me almost 10 before that to work my way out. I grew up in twi, birth to twenties. Now I’m working my way through diagnoses of PTSD, anxiety, and depression, all after I thought I’d dealt with the big stuff. I hope you all are faring better, but I’m guessing maybe not if you’re here. A book that is really helping me understand all this is “Combatting Cult Mind Control” by Steven Hassan. If you’re looking for a sometimes distressing but very revealing read, it’s excellent and totally relevant. Happy to be here and hope to “meet” some of you soon. :-)
  3. 5 points
    yeah Rocky - I agree. I think of Twinky as looking at a bigger picture – “in the Christian world” as she put it; from meeting her at the Texas BBQ and going on things she shares in her posts, I really believe she is a woman with a mission AND with a compassionate heart for service; some of the stuff she shares about her street pastoring sounds like it could be in a new chapter in the book of Acts. I’m not qualified to speak about gift ministries or know much about them – but as far as I’m concerned she’s got something special up her sleeve – I believe she definitely has a calling...of course she brings a lot of good "things" here also - let's not forget that. folks like Skyrider and Don’t Worry often focus on all things way-world; they’ve got that warrior ethos – never leave anyone behind…they pack some serious heat - - as well as some serious therapy. They are the big guns that expose and obliterate the hypocrisy of “those lying, thieving weasels” (as Don’t Worry calls them); then there’s the healing side of their ministries (there – I said it… and I’ll say it again through an amp that goes up to 11 ) – then there’s the healing side of their compassionate ministries reaching out to those who were hurt by “those lying, thieving weasels”. I hope I haven’t embarrassed you all in some way – just thought I pass along some praise and encouragement. like Skyrider was saying the extent of the consequences is relative to one’s life and experiences…this stuff may not matter much in the Christian world at large - but it matters to me - since part of my life was in way-world. ...every once and awhile I get to feeling down about how I devoted 12 years of my life to a cult and however much mental baggage I’ve been dragging around since then. There’s the shame…embarrassment… the… stigma that some folks associate with cults…sometimes I don’t mind that…maybe that keeps me on my toes…maybe it’s something I’ve got in the habit of doing from technical work – where I double, triple and quadruple check some things cuz I know I’m not perfect – me or someone else is going to screw up or a part will fail – so be prepared. I often look at it as a challenge to do my best critical thinking if we happen to get in a doctrinal or philosophical discussion..i know I’m rambling here – but trust me I’ll bring it back to this thread in a minute or two. I’ve always tried to live my life like an open book – I have nothing to hide – I’ve really tried to live a good Christian life while in TWI and afterwards too! On occasion I have even shared with co-workers of my experiences in a cult as some tough lessons on the importance of a Christ-centered faith and giving heed to one’s authentic-self…the machinations of TWI went so counter to anything that had to do with your authentic-self… some of that crap from the mouths of those lying thieving weasels was really just blowing smoke up my a$$ - to make me think I was destined for greatness. I used to think I’d better go in the corps cuz God has some big plans for me…maybe I’ve got a gift ministry…I tried to picture myself as being the perfect PFAL believer spreading blessings and good fortune wherever I went…alright…about to reconnect to this topic in 3..2…1… If I would have stayed in TWI I believe I would have been groomed to follow – on a small scale – wierwille’s power grabbing style: I think I was a restless and unfulfilled leader - going through the motions of handling my TWI assignment – oh the drudgery...trying to act enthusiastic about moving “the word” – I’m wondering if that’s the equivalent of a woman faking orgasm.…and I was a searching opportunist – taking the same classes again and again, going to advances, special events, joining programs…looking for direction and opportunity to advance spiritually – whatever the hell that means…I was even like my Plagiarizing “mentor “ – making PFAL my own, writing songs about it; looking for other verses to prove some point wierwille had made…and listening to the ensnaring supplanter - I learned to choose TWI’s “household” over family, friends and whatever I was taught in the Roman Catholic Church…in ignorance I endorsed that usurping authoritarian…and revered the consummate cult leader – I volunteered to be isolated, immersed, indoctrinated so I could teach and recruit others. Reflecting on my life since I left TWI: I have such a sense of fulfilment from just trying to be a good husband, dad and competent technician. That may be underrated in some folks’ book but that’s my “ministry” and I’m damn proud of it! I also get a sense of fulfillment and some peace of mind from Grease Spot. To me it’s a far cry from getting the halfway-house-treatment by well-meaning Christians who try to take me on as their next project – that has happened several times over the years in different places where I’ve worked. I can figure out a lot of $hit myself, thank you very much – but there’s nothing like the cyber-camaraderie of folks who have survived a cult. Sorry for the long post, major detour and cuss words but I sure do feel better. Sweet dreams all – nighty night.
  4. 5 points
    Another wonderful post Skyrider....encouraging both critical thought and self-reflection. Your willingness to reveal your deepest personal “lens” view of experiences you witnessed or endured, without worrying about covering for your own naïveté at the time, due primarily to the vibrant idealism of youth at the time many of us got involved, is most admirable imho. I appreciate your honest insight and your reflection of TWIt “history” as you experienced it then, and as you understand it now, some 40 years later. I am far less “kind” to dictor paul than you are. From my own interpersonal interactions with dp, I don’t think he had near the cleverness you give him credit for, Sky. He was a spoiled little brat, sexually abused baby of an Aryan family of 8. His intellect was a C- at best throughout his academic career, when he wasn’t failing. He mastered one thing. Plagiarism. Vic was a charlatan from the beginning. But, he was just a small-time crappie in a huge pond of Elmer Gantrys in the 1940s who were looking to make a comfortable living and stay outta WWII. Plus, Adolph Ernst...his daddy...was a Nazi supporter in the German-American Bund founded by Lindbergh and Fritz Kuhn in 1936. Young dictor grew up in that racist, fascist environment, and they even spoke German in their home, before they learned English! So, dp’s “call to ministry” was nothing more than a fortunate turn of events which got him through a cheap Evangelical and Reformed seminary, and ordained as a clergyman in that denomination with his own church, St. Jacob’s in Payne, OH, as Skyrider has recorded. That began a bumbling, stumbling, rumbling, bull-in-a-China-shop romp through the Bible Belt Fundamentalist Jesus culture of the post-war Midwest. Quite a conservative area of the USA at that time. His entire Chimes Hour Youth Caravan “founding” of TWIt was just the beginning of his hustle. He saw what worked with kids, had a nice, steamy affair with Rosalind Rinker, and had his first child, a son, Donald Ernst. Then he got a promotion to a bigger, more important, better tithing E&R church in Van Wert, St. Peter’s. Got him out of Payne before his shenanigans could be uncovered, settled him into a comfortable, economically stable community with a built-in guaranteed flock to fleece. He was simply playing the denominational pastor game and really just wanted to be as big as his heroes, Oral Roberts and Billy Graham. At the AC at HQ in the sumner of 1972, dp said: “I’m not an Evangelist like Billy Graham, or Oral Roberts! I’m a teacher! I tried to reach out to them in the 50s to work together for the Lord. You know, when they pack ‘em into their tents and stadiums, get ‘em born again and then what?? Send them to ME! I’ll teach them the greatness of the accuracy of Gawd’s rightly divided word!” He said that right after he finished playing a tape of Oral Roberts’ preaching his famous 4th Man Sermon. Dic was just a greedy young ne’re-do-well from a hick German farm town in the middle of nowhere Ohio, who got outta the hard work of taking over daddy’s farm, or starting a business of his own like his brothers, by choosing the easy, well-respected con of Midwest clergyman, knocking up his HS sweetheart, and grabbing and groping his way through one small group of suckers after another. When he was lucky enough to stumble across folks like Peter J. Wade, David Anderson, John Somerville, Ken Klug, Walter Cummins, Jim Doop, Steve Heefner, and Donnie Fugit, it was THEIR gifts, abilities and enthusiasm that made dic’s class a hit, not dic’s personal presence. Often, his personal presence just caused trouble for everyone! He was a jerk in the opinion of many. Until those same men had the Bible ministry they loved stolen from them and brought under the iron fist of Herr Victor the First. The progress of dic’s new possession really took off when he got rid of his competition. He started the corpse in 1969 with Ken Klug in it, John Lynn, Pat Browning, Johnny Townsend, and couple of others. The famous Zero corpse. Started again in 1970 with the first corpse of 9, including 1 guy at ECU. Again, not really planned or thought through beyond the free-spirited idealism of young hippies who really believed ole Dic was teaching the word like it hadn’t been known since the 1st Century and there were miracles, signs, and wonders everywhere! Dic wanted a core group as disciplined and tough as the Marine Corps after the Zero corpse pooped out to get married and take care of other personal priorities. That’s why he loved ECU so much. John and Tim Somerville started the “work” at ECU. John volunteered for Vietnam Nam to prove the revelation and power manifestations to himself, and was truly a hero and esteemed warrior among his fellow Marines. Dic said if John could do all that for the Marines, why can’t I get people to do that for God and His word??! Why can’t God have a Marine Corps?? Hence, the concept of the way corpse was born. Again, no cleverly calculated, sinister, MLM plot. Just the continued outworking of one man’s pathology now gathering steam through a serendipitous cult of personality that was building around a completely incompetent, dumbass, perverted drunk. Imho, Dic had a lot less to do with building his cult than the first 5 corpses and the WOW program. It was those groups that most adored dictor, enjoyed the thrill and joy of genuine Christian revival when they first took that class thing, were free enough to just pick up and go wherever the man-o-gawd told them too. It was not dictor or the stupid class that got me into TWIt. It was my closest and most beloved friends. It was the power of miracles, signs, and wonders and no authoritarian control. As the money began pouring in, Harry and Vic figured they better invest it. Best investment?? REAL ESTATE! Emporia, Rome City, Gunnison, Limb homes in OH, IN, MI, NC, KS, CA, NY, all bought by TWIt in the early 70s. The Colleges, campuses, camps, limb homes, etc., were all money-laundering schemes that Dic and Harry stumbled into, which were then “perfected” by Howard and Don, and all the new early corpse grads flooding HQ and all the new “Root Locales” with millions of laundered abundant sharing dollars. The only names on ALL the deeds to those properties were those of TWIt trustees.....Harry Wierwille, Ermal Owens, dictor paul, Howard, Don, and da Forehead. That was it until the Allen lawsuit was settled. Whose names are on the remaining deeds?? Ohio? Gunnison? That’s when the real systemization of dic’s evil began imo. Dic himself was too dumb to do anything but drink and molest women while reading anyone else’s Bible teachings a couple of times a week in some quaint little midwestern hamlet in Ohio. He was a slick con. He knew the game. He was always on the prowl. He was clever, not intelligent. He was deceitful, and ambitious, not honest or humble. He was mentally ill....untreated, uncontrolled mental illness dysfunctionally working itself out since his teens. He was a charmer and manipulator, not by will, but by nature. No redeeming social value, spiritually empty, and intellectually vapid. So, though dictor paul was lucky enough to attract some very talented people into his sex/personality cult, I don’t give him credit for diabolically planning, thinking through, or conceiving what he eventually destroyed. Sadly, he used a lot of wonderful, smart, talented, authentically loving, idealistic young people, who loved Jesus and just wanted to do the right thing to pay for and fulfill his own hubris and lusts. A pimp and a whore and a bully. What a ministry!
  5. 5 points
    Freedom from the way international cult..........never grows old. Freedom of thought.......to explore the world in which I live. Freedom of speech........to disagree, or agree and explain why. Freedom of religion........or have no religion at all. Freedom of the press......er, GSC. TWI and the Splinters hate this site. Freedom from public character assassination......without representation. Freedom of privacy.........and fellowship and associations of my choosing. Freedom from mandatory meetings, meals and yell-fests. Freedom to be me. This list could be endless. The more I think about all the harassment and spiritual abuse that I put up with in twi.............I cannot believe that I stayed that long. The cult puppeteers were daily pulling the strings of what was spiritually important each day. What a load of BS. And, to this day......there are dozens of splinter groups that still idolize wierwille as the grand wizard........er, great one. Deceived and deceiving others. What a delusional way to live. Freedom. Fresh air. Life.
  6. 5 points
    Hey, Moynihan............... If wierwille had lived longer........maybe we would have seen him led away in handcuffs (like Harvey Weinstein).
  7. 4 points
    Wierwille continues to be a polarizing figure of huge dimensions and consequences......as another generation of youth are indoctrinated by cult elders. Some view his life and "ministry" on par, or greater, than biblical prophets or apostles. Others have documented accounts of wierwille as a sexual predator, deceiver and opportunist. Few, it seems, have moderate views of the man. Of course, twi-headquarters and splinter groups, hold a superlative opinion of "Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille." They have a vested and profit-making interest in cheerleading his legacy. Splinter groups have little relevance without clinging to the wierwille brand and all that he taught. I tend to see wierwille in terms of his narcissist pathologies to acquire power and dominance over others. It was only after he had "cornered the market" of stolen and plagiarized work from others that his "ministry" came to the fore and he made greater strides of controlling others. Dependence on twi was the alpha and omega.........not independence. Everything in the cult is a sequence..........of followship. Not once in all my years in twi did any leader encourage me to "go to the Lord in prayer." Every cog in the twi-machine functions on OBEDIENCE TO WIERWILLE-DOCTRINE..........not biblical authority. To study the effects of wierwille's cult...........one needs to analyze the evolution of wierwille. I submit my thesis........ The Six Stages of Wierwille's Climb to Power The Unfulfilled Pastor..............church pastor in Payne (1941-1944) and Van Wert, Ohio (1944-1957).......restless and unfulfilled. The Searching Opportunist......traveling to seminars, retreats, and church camps looking for direction and opportunity to advance. The Plagiarizing Teacher.........starting December 1957, wierwille is now unhindered from church boards to plagiarize and teach others' work. The Ensnaring Supplanter........filming pfal in 1967, vpw uses preemptive strikes against family, church and community to entrap followers. The Usurping Authoritarian......wierwille power-grabs movements (Way West/East) in 1969-1970 and operates with stealth & subterfuge. The Pinnacle Cult Leader..........5 corps training campuses embody isolation, immersion and indoctrination --- to teach and recruit others. Base Camp...........scripture and homiletics training. From this starting position, wierwille could always rely on his "supplies" to climb greater heights. Who doesn't want to hear about God's love, abundance and power? Who doesn't thirst to know that a Merciful God will bestow health and prosperity to them and their family? Who doesn't hunger to know that a Righteous Heavenly Father will guide them thru life and into eternity? With homiletics training, vpw was adept at uplifting many who heard his sermons. But.............church was confining. And, wierwille was a man on the move. Clearly, his seminary classes and life's experience were limited. He needed to learn more, much more.....to advance his thinking beyond its confinement. His narcissism wanted to stretch its legs........and, besides, every seminar or retreat that wierwille attended gave him the opportunity to get out of Van Wert. Did it also give him opportunity to see other women? Probably. Wierwille was a man who didn't like boundaries. In the late 60s, he headed to California to check out the orgy action in Haight-Ashbury, didn't he? Yep. And, in 1953..........B.G. Leonard's class, The Gifts of the Spirit, changed wierwille's life and trajectory. It was THE ROPE that aided wierwille to climb higher, much higher. After leaving the Van Wert Church in December 1957.......wierwille, the plagiarizing teacher, hit the highways month after month to teach "his" foundational class and pay the bills. He not only needed students........he NEEDED faithful people to tithe to his fledgling work. From 1958-1967, wierwille was a one-man show........teaching classes, city after city. Wierwille's class and marketing strategy was to reach church people. What he didn't seem to grasp.........is that nearly 85-90% of these students went BACK to their churches and communities. They were not looking to be transformed or transplanted into twi-servitude for a lifetime. Mrs. W's book, Born Again To Serve, documents years of classes and confrontational letters that wierwille sent out at certain points of frustration. The Troy believers launched a mass exodus in 1960 when vpw and harry voted to move the Van Wert Headquarters to the family farm. They believed that the wierwilles could not be trusted in keeping the finances separate from the farm and The Way, Inc. The filming of the 1967 class...........had a subterfuge agenda. What was this new hidden objective? To entrap new students into his organization by destroying their old support systems of family, religion and community........and erect a new system, a spiritual family that replaced their "earthly family." In essence: A Cult. Add lots of homespun stories........intermix ridicule of church denominations......then, demand that all students ---- "stand with the ministry that taught them the Word. Having done all, STAND." Oh, and just write the teacher. Make sure to come visit the farm. See the wierwille barn. Meet "Uncle Harry" and "Aunt Sevilla" and have lunch in the Ecumenical BRC basement. Cult Warning: The agenda is to replace your "earthly family" with this NEW spiritual family, the Household of God. In 1969.........wierwille's narcissism flares up big time when Heefner and Doop [Way East and Way West] are pulling in MORE students and growing exponentially. According to Doop, he and wierwille had an agreement that 15% of all tithes would be sent to headquarters and the other 85% would stay in the area. [I will look for that GSC-information for confirmation.] So, what does wierwille do? He goes into their statewide meetings and power-grabs the movement. The Usurping Authoritarian HAS to be the Top Dog of the Show. Wierwille NEEDED young ministers and firebrands to advance his climb to power. The Corps Training Program was the final act of betrayal by wierwille. It will always entail "The Zero Corps"...........the ones who would NOT commit to wierwille's demands. Though wierwille turned the reins of this program over to others, he was always hiding in the shadows to plunder the youth. Spiritual abuse was part and parcel to its methodology. It was subtle and deceptive and devious. For years, wierwille traveled on his motor coach to these corps campuses and preyed upon these young, innocent corps girls. When he summoned the unsuspecting girl, she had no idea what was about to happen. The cult leader had reached his pinnacle of power over others. He was "untouchable." This 58 year-old sexual predator made sure that he had consumed several cups of Drambuie coffee so that he was well liquored up for these late night sexual romps. With absolute power over others..............wierwille had reached his summit and fulfilled his narcissistic pathologies. ~~~~~~~~~~~
  8. 4 points
    Remember that cigarette commercial............"You can take Salem out of the country but, you can't take the country out of Salem." While in college, I was studying Business Management and Marketing......and we delved into marketing techniques. How they work. What constitutes a snazzy slogan. What type of technique leaves a subliminal message that lingers. And, the "Salem commercial" was worth studying, because it encompassed all of those...........especially when the commercial ends by "You can take Salem out of the country but [Ding]...........and your mind sings, and fills in, the rest of the song diddy. THAT is what I think about the cult's pseudo-Christianity. You can keep smoking those twit-teachings, but you can't take wierwille out of those teachings!! You can leave the cult, but if you continue smoking those "rightly-divided" teachings.......you can't take wierwille out of the brand. For some 30 years, corps leadership have been leaving the cult-mothership ........yet, they STILL market the wierwille-mystique. They cannot separate Christianity from the "Wierwille-Cult Christianity"..... it's just not possible, in their minds. Wierwille is their mediator between God and man. He ushered them into the Age of Grace. It's his teachings that open the doors to understand "the word as it has not been known since the first century." He is the modern-day Apostle Paul. He is the one who found the keys to the "more abundant life." To them, wierwille is to be placed on a pedestal that is revered. Move over Jesus Christ.....there's a new man of God in town. The manifestations are a non-sequester, it seems. No one really takes them serious anymore. What a stark difference from the early-70s......when walking in power was the deal-breaker of being sincere or being genuine!! On one level......it seems, that they are simply marketing this message for ROI (return on investment). They've spend over 4 decades in promoting pfal......and now, after distancing themselves from the machinery want to call the shots and count the money. The R&R group is the latest in this endeavor. Gawd, it is so nauseating to see their pathetic pandering to the wierwille-adulation when GreaseSpot Café has been documenting this stuff for nearly 18 years. Yet, on another level..........maybe, these guys truly believe that wierwille had it going on........right doctrine, right practice, right on before God Almighty. Could it be that these guys are SO INDOCTRINATED and INSTITUTIONALIZED that they've lost all grasp of critical thinking? Just seems to me that I Timothy 3 would be enough to show gaping discrepancies of wierwille's manner of life as opposed to the Scriptures. Or, pointing out the putrid fruit of sexual predation, lock box doctrine, absent-Christ, etc........to name a few. All in all, I think it's about..... Saving Face Being Unrepentant Establishing a lane to run in during retirement Desiring to be the lead dog ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  9. 4 points
    Hey.........take this class, it will change your life! At the end of pfal class.......you need to be sure to sit in the next pfal class that's available. No one gets the depth of it the first time. And then, ........ the Renewed Mind class will be running in a couple of months, followed by Dealing with the Adversary class........and Christian, Family and Sex will be running in July, just before we go to the Rock of Ages. You are now qualified to take your place on the class crew treadmill to help others......i.e. helping others means to get them to take class after class, too. So, you faithfully witness, sign up friends and family and neighbors.........little do you realize, at first, that false teachers using feigned words covet your involvement, because YOU are the targeted product. They want YOU to become the walking, talking billboard of their classes, events, camps, and advanced class specials. These false teachers (cult leaders) want you to follow them in their "pernicious ways" [II Peter 2:1-3]........loss, ruinous, destructive ways. Loss of money. Loss of family ties. Sabotaging marriages and careers........for the sake of zealously moving the cult's classes and agenda. Up your commitment and go WOW or Way Corps.......i.e. putting yourself in a position to "lead others." LOL As you keep co-joining in THEIR agenda, you become complicit in their pernicious, evil ways. If you were paying attention........you will have noticed that the cult hierarchy has dropped the advanced class cliché of reaching spiritual maturity. See.....EVEN AFTER the advanced class, you're not really that "advanced." Same deal with WOW....or the Way Corps. Once you "graduate" from the corps, you start at the bottom rung of "a lifetime of twi-servitude" and are often kicked around in a menial job at twi-hq. Like a cog on a big wheel, you may be on top for a short period of time.....only to find tremendous stress when you're on the bottom, again. You're "free".......as long as you stay committed to twi-servitude. The dirty little secret is that once you start connecting these dots, they VERBALLY ABUSE you with fear! In closed meetings, the cult uses words like "cop-out, possessed, worldly, lost his salt, loss of rewards, greasespot by midnight." How did it turn so ugly? Or, was it always ugly.....and masked to look good? Now, not only do they threaten you with words, they institute the practice of ex-communication. After 15-20 years of institutionalized indoctrination, one is more likely to succumb to cult obedience than to dissent. It's a matter of social psychology, not spirituality. How did it all get so crazy? How did you get trapped in the hall-of-horrors at this amusement park? Simple: False teachers used fabricated classes to indoctrinate the unsuspecting.......and coveted your involvement to make merchandise of you. How could you NOT suspect that splinter groups will do the same....... .
  10. 4 points
    Taxi, I think if JAL had done "some actual research," he would know that most of VPW's teachings about the Bible were off! If VPW was wrong, than JAL would be wrong, because he followed after VPW. I don't think JAL would ever publicly admit that most of what he has been teaching, is wrong. John has a huge ego, and he isn't a humble person; God forbid that he admit to being an ordinary person like you, and I.
  11. 4 points
    (blushes again) Thank you, Skyrider. Yep. If it's "you" that got hurt, it is a big deal. "You," basically are all you've got. Yep again. I've posted this before: I was so desperate and destroyed that I was prepared to crawl across broken glass to get back to TWI after ten years in the wilderness. I got on the net to find their zip code. The first result for TWI was - GreaseSpot Cafe! I looked. I was appalled, horrified. And ultimately healed. My grovelly letter of apology for my imagined sins never got written. I thank God for Saint Pawtucket and this place.
  12. 4 points
    Okay so this has come up in several discussions, so I wanted to put it in a place where cult questioners can find it better. Mainstream Christianity teaches according to I Corinthians 12 - which incorporates Jesus body as an analogy or figure representing each follower as they band together. This teaching would dovetail into his ceremonial handling of the Last Supper - and the eucharist, or "body and blood" of Christ teaching is a common one in Christianity today. It is very clear that Jesus vision as well as God's vision to Paul was of Jesus followers being united together and functioning as a human body functions today with each of its parts working together. Victor Paul Wierwille, and every ensuing Way International President after him, taught and supported the idea of a "household of God". Their logic is since there is so much division in Christianity today Jesus couldn't mean all the denominations since they will never work together. Therefore the logic is the "one body" has to describe a certain group of people, a subset of the entire body of Christ that is inspired by the present truth and moves as one and works together at a very high level exactly like the pulse of the human body with the brain sending signals to the hand and the hand responding immediately. The Way and splinters label this subset the "household of God" and seperate off from the body of Christ in mainstream Christianity practically and organizationally. The Way Presidents have used this teaching to set themselves up in the position of Jesus as the head of the body of Christ, and to have complete authority over this "household of God" including the expectation that they respond quickly like the human body does. They ignore considering and discussing other Christians in the body of Christ. They work with no other Christian organization. They consider no other Christian input. They have a little closed system they have built for themselves where they have absolute control and are accountable to nobody. This teaching and functioning is ANTICHRIST. Why? Every single implementation of it sets up a single person or small elite group of people as the intercessor between the follower and God. There is an inordinate amount of control. There is the crossing of boundaries in lives. There is the using of people for their own ease. People aren't free to make decisions for themselves and their families with God and Jesus, they have to obtain approval from overseers. The logic is "since we are all one body, why wouldn't you want to share these things?" and they use good words and fair speeches to cross boundaries and control people and their finances and futures. ANTICHRISTS So folks you heard it first here on the 'SPOT. THERE IS NO HOUSEHOLD OF GOD. THERE IS A BODY OF CHRIST.
  13. 4 points
    Exactly................"people wouldn't stick." This is well documented in Mrs. W's book as she details a list in 1958, 1959 and 1960 of wierwille's pfal classes in various cities. When you consider the hundreds of people who sat thru his classes each year (1957-1967)........the question becomes, "What happened to all these people who, having heard these truths taught live by Dr. Wierwille (cough, cough), were supposed to commit their lives, effort and money toward word-over-the-world twi servitude?" Apparently, they didn't see -- 1) power or 2) abundant living.........as highlighted in its promotion. So......when vpw films the class in 1967, what does he do? He adds and augments certain preemptive strikes against the denominational churches. Wierwille not only wants his new students to sit thru his series of classes, but to stick with him. He demonizes church elders and their motives.......to guilt and shame anyone who, having taken pfal, would even think of going back to their church. With each passing year, the rhetoric escalates.........until vpw and others were teaching that denominational church hierarchy have the seed of the serpent. Egads! The level of hyperbole and accusations was absurd. Then, once you attend the "advanced class".......you hear about the Illuminati, the Thirteenth Tribe, Marxist Minstrels, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, Seed of the Serpent, etc......you're indoctrinated into the inner sanctum and servitude. Add......a year or two of going WOW, or Corps Training and you become absorbed into the cult blob. Leaders over leaders over leaders......each following orders of next higher (or lower) unit. As a leaf on a mighty tree (LOL).....you give respect to the twig leader, branch, limb, and trunk leader. Seems like more and more.......you are getting closer and closer to the dirt. Then, work on staff AT THE ROOT.........now, you've gone underground. Wowsers!!! It seems clear to me that wierwille took stock of all those pfal students LEAVING HIM IN THE 60s.............and struck out on a subterfuge agenda. What was this new hidden objective? To entrap new students into his organization by destroying their old support systems of family, religion and community........and erect a new system, a spiritual family that replaced their "earthly family." In essence: A Cult. Wierwille needed to separate these young students from their support systems for longer and longer periods of time. Not just a three week class.......else, they go back to friends, family and work/education. Start summer camps......like the churches do, but for the purposes of building an *us versus them* mentality. Later, add WOW program......and then, the corps program. The youth are malleable and fall prey to indoctrination. The corps program was a multiplier in wierwille's climb to power: 1) Isolation of these "training centers" gave twi the availability, time and power over the individual without outside interference, and 2) Conformity to be obedient and follow "elder" corps established a pecking order that permeated the campus and fed the egos of even the most inept "elder" corps. In the end..........it all came tumbling down. Lots of reasons, I suppose......but the youth grew up and real life responsibilities, decisions and motivations were staring them in the face. Who has the means to give "volunteer services" to twi for a lifetime? Why? Why is this opportunistic cult hoarding millions? Where is this power and abundance that wierwille taught? Everyone is selling soap........and it's all being washed down the drain. The whole damn thing was a scam........as wierwille took every opportunity to advance himself into the spotlight. It's a scam...........and that's why "people don't stick." .
  14. 4 points
    There was an episode of "Gilligan's Island" where the Professor did "word association" with Thurston Howell III. At every word, the first thing that came to Thurston's mind was "money." "Hot." "Money." "Cold." "Money." (Until he finally gave a different answer...) "Child." "Tax deduction." lcm had this fixation that became an obsession with homosexuality. Eventually he started seeing it everywhere. So, "What was the original sin?" "Homosexuality/" "What is the worst sin?" "Homosexuality." "Why did we have problems with this program that's tanking?" "Homosexuality." "How can we make twi better?" "Remove homosexuality." "What's twi's biggest problem right now?" "Homosexuality." "What's the capital of Paraguay?" "Homosexuality." "Who was the 16th US President?" "Homosexuality." "What do you see when you look at art?" "Homosexuality." I don't think it was a matter of plagiarism, as much as it was playing a piano that only had one key.
  15. 4 points
    Thank you Waysider. Thank you T-Bone. And thank you Skyrider for starting this thread. Given that critical thinking is the antithesis of the Wierwille mystique, it should surprise no one, especially here at GSC, that the R&R RR is stuck in neutral. Anyone who tries to duplicate -- albeit refine and distill the organizational model back to how it was in the good old days of TWI -- has ZERO chance to establish a thriving fellowship centered on godliness. At it's core, the model of bombarding "students" with hours and hours of bible teachings, in which they ONLY are given information and expected to absorb it, can do very little critical thinking. To build churches, fellowships, and a way corpse that would actually be better described without the letter "e" in the title, would have to honor the students with the dignity of allowing them to think... critically. The approach is called, Socratic. The student is actively engaged and CHALLENGES the teacher. But if the teacher cannot cope with that kind of student, you get cults instead. Does that make sense?
  16. 4 points
    At this point, it pretty much goes without saying, yes, they HAVE lost all grasp thereof... as WE did when we fell under the influence of Wierwille, a master manipulator. However, it also has occurred to me that "critical thinking" is the antithesis of the Wierwille Mystique. Skyrider, perhaps you could weigh in on that idea. Very brief and cursory research on the subject brought my attention to the following excerpts from a few people who have written on the subject of critical thinking: Someone with critical thinking skills can: Understand the links between ideas. Determine the importance and relevance of arguments and ideas. Recognize, build and appraise arguments. Identify inconsistencies and errors in reasoning. Approach problems in a consistent and systematic way. Reflect on the justification of their own assumptions, beliefs and values. In essence, critical thinking requires you to use your ability to reason. It is about being an active learner rather than a passive recipient of information. Critical thinkers rigorously question ideas and assumptions rather than accepting them at face value. They will always seek to determine whether the ideas, arguments and findings represent the entire picture and are open to finding that they do not. 6 Crucial critical thinking skills (and how you can improve them) Critical thinking is a skill that allows you to make logical and informed decisions to the best of your ability. For example, a child who has not yet developed such skills might believe the Tooth Fairy left money under their pillow based on stories their parents told them. A critical thinker, however, can quickly conclude that the existence of such a thing is probably unlikely—even if there are a few bucks under their pillow. Critical thinking is the objective analysis of facts to form a judgment.[1] The subject is complex, and several different definitions exist, which generally include the rational, skeptical, unbiased analysis, or evaluation of factual evidence. The habits of mind that characterize a person strongly disposed toward critical thinking include a desire to follow reason and evidence wherever they may lead, a systematic approach to problem solving, inquisitiveness, even-handedness, and confidence in reasoning. Critical thinking...the awakening of the intellect to the study of itself. Critical thinking can be seen as having two components: 1) a set of information and belief generating and processing skills, and 2) the habit, based on intellectual commitment, of using those skills to guide behavior. It is thus to be contrasted with: 1) the mere acquisition and retention of information alone, because it involves a particular way in which information is sought and treated; 2) the mere possession of a set of skills, because it involves the continual use of them; and 3) the mere use of those skills ("as an exercise") without acceptance of their results. Critical thinking varies according to the motivation underlying it. When grounded in selfish motives, it is often manifested in the skillful manipulation of ideas in service of one’s own, or one's groups’, vested interest. As such it is typically intellectually flawed, however pragmatically successful it might be. When grounded in fairmindedness and intellectual integrity, it is typically of a higher order intellectually, though subject to the charge of "idealism" by those habituated to its selfish use. Critical thinking of any kind is never universal in any individual; everyone is subject to episodes of undisciplined or irrational thought. Its quality is therefore typically a matter of degree and dependent on, among other things, the quality and depth of experience in a given domain of thinking or with respect to a particular class of questions. No one is a critical thinker through-and-through, but only to such-and-such a degree, with such-and-such insights and blind spots, subject to such-and-such tendencies towards self-delusion. For this reason, the development of critical thinking skills and dispositions is a life-long endeavor.
  17. 4 points
    The splinter groups will continue to market the wierwille mystique and his legacy..........to bring notoriety to their doorstep and money to their coffers. Wierwille was a showman and a storyteller. He trafficked in deception and exploiting others thru the subtle power of spiritual abuse. He traveled up and down the highways searching for the new shtick that would arrest the public's curiosity and attention.......wherein, he could run full-throttle with his narcissism. From retreats to seminars to camps farthest out, wierwille was intently looking for a pyramid of his own making. The youth had the time, and zeal, to make things happen. And, when the youth leaders [Way West / Way East] surged forward with throngs of people, wierwille walked into those meetings and power-grabbed their movements for himself. The revisionist history that accompanied his "God-ordained greatness" was a slick ploy to build this mystique of "the man of God." Yet, in reality.......Wierwille's legacy is one of stealing, exploiting, and destroying others for his own opportunity. Splinter groups need to keep the wierwille-mystique in place........thus, they will not abandon him, nor will they come to GSC and step into the area of open discussions on the matter. Mystique only plays well in shades of grey.......not in open sunlight.
  18. 4 points
    I ( personally ) have found 'believing' to work. It's actually believing IN believing...and then taking up the necessary 'works' to hook up to your faith. As a side note, my wife and I were told ( by leadership in the R&R movement ) that when we left the way our kids would grow up to be homos. 20 years later we have 7 grand children
  19. 4 points
    Mr I'm-the-super-believer wierwille was supposed to be Par Excellence for the so-called "law" of believing, the "law" that has failed so many people, so many times. Supposedly, his believing was the Top Tier on the planet, so it should have been a piece of cake for him to believe for more years. Instead, he died too young. In his final hours, he was STILL the captive of his own teaching- he was literally trying to figure out what was blocking his ability to believe for his own healing. Even as death approached, he wouldn't, or couldn't, be honest with himself. You don't have a "prison" of your own making, in your mind. You do, however, have a "prison" that HE made. Step outside of it. The entire "Word-Faith" thing has shown to be toxic. When people suffer, the "Word-Faith" people are REQUIRED to blame them, kicking a man when he's down. Miserable comforters blaming those suffering are as old as the book of Job. They were wrong then and they're wrong now.
  20. 4 points
    "And if you ever want to talk, if you every want to do anything, we're here." In other words, YOU come to us. We are not going to find you (and apologise). No, Jacque. YOU come here, you apologise. You will get a lot of flack. But you might find a little forgiveness or compassion, too, IF if if you are humble enough. You will need to LISTEN and not to (pretend to) preach.
  21. 4 points
    What I think is so amazing is how these people thought it was okay not only to expel people (at will) from various programs, but to order them out of the state or the town. And the victims complied! This, to people who may have given up good jobs, sold property at a loss, moved hundreds of miles (if not to say, moved from another country), disrupted children's education, etc - probably having become alienated from their family and friends who would form a support group - and it's okay to tell people who have demonstrated so significantly their commitment to the cause, that they've gotta be out of town in a few hours. Talk about a power imbalance - "leadership" exercised unfettered "rights" and the victims were so bullied and weakened that they were unable to resist. All because they were being "obedient to God." Grr! It's easy to see to whom such leadership had demonstrated so significantly their commitment - to the one who steals, kills and destroys. God might have a few things to say to such bullies about obedience and meekness.
  22. 3 points
    I find it hard to believe that its been 20 years since I finished my final task............then............TOOK THE EXIT RAMP TO REALITY. Even though it was gut-wrenching to stay those last two months.......it was something that I felt I needed to do. In all good conscience, I just couldn't walk away and leave the whole state of Oklahoma in a mess. The advanced class grads had been preparing for these 4 weekends for nearly a year...........and were deeply committed to finishing the Way of Abundance and Power series by attending this final August weekend. [ I stayed for the advanced class grads of Oklahoma........no one else. ] As I have documented here at GSC the growing chasm of distrust and disdain for trustees, most especially beginning in August 1995 (when martindale assigned corps to be on twi's payroll full-time).........what a fast 3-year roller coaster ride! Once we signed on the line (full-time employees).......they treated us like slaves/property. I am not sure that I've ever adequately expressed the box and conundrum of those three years. Martindale claimed that he'd received prophesy from the Lord for all corps to be full-time......and that with this commitment, the spiritual growth in twi was going to be exponentially prevailing. Expect it. Believe it. We labored for 3 years like it was wheat harvesting time EVERY DAY.........14, 16, 18 hours a day. At the Limb level, it was totally crazy the amount of hours we spent each week to keep up with all the faxes and corps assignments from the trunk. Heck, we were crossing over the bridge into the "Promised Land of the Prevailing Word"......and everyone needed to be sanctified and pure from any scintilla of doubt, fear or evil. Not only were we to keep up with all the new information from the newly-embraced wap classes, but martindale would ramble on for 2 1/2 hours every corps meeting, each week. I doubt that I've ever been so busy in my life.....in getting nothing done. What a circus........with elephant man, bearded-lady, dancing bears, and six-legged goats. I have lived to tell my story.......and what a damn scam I found myself in. When I found Waydale two years later.......a new day dawned. Thank you Paul Allen and Pawtucket.........you two are saints !!
  23. 3 points
    Not sure why I am commenting, as I have nothing new, but over the years since being out, I get moments of clarity on things that I always knew. All of these classes laid a groundwork for what we were supposed to believe and how we were to act. Any hint of thought or behavior that didn't jibe with those primers were alarm signals and justification to reprimand, yell at, devalue, criticize and find some existing 'fault' that needed to be corrected , until you were back to parroting the 'word' taught in the classes at all times. After several years of reproof sessions for various crimes, it dawned on me that I could avoid much of it be keeping my mouth shut, cleaning my room, and appearing to be onboard with any and every thing the way did. At one point, I was coordinating a twig, running a way home, class 'instructor', and bookstore manager for the state all at the same time. Thankfully I resisted going into the corps, largely because deep down I knew I would never live up to that standard 24 hours a day, and had no desire to live in a compound. All those classes created a core group of otherwise 'regular' people who had been indoctrinated with just enough way think to make independent goals and actions extremely difficult.
  24. 3 points
    Thanks, DWBH............ I always look forward to your posts. Yes, wierwille was a bumbling, stumbling, rumbling opportunist that was looking for something, anything that would give him a new shtick of relevance. When I posted about the "climb of power" and the summit of control over others..............that, in no way, credits wierwille. His narcissistic pathologies held sway over any measurable thought or character. The guy's narcissism, undiagnosed and unchecked...........left thousands abused, wounded and/or destroyed. A grifter and opportunist scheming to ease his way thru life........not an honest day's pay.
  25. 3 points
    yah I'm looking at it. Jalvis may possibly have some logic but you just can't get past the guy's obvious worship of himself and his own thoughts. I swear it is just so tedious to work through this BS. Self-promotion interlaced all the way through, with the beginning section dedicated to establishing his credentials and credibility. "I'm the most original OG of the fired OG's in '87 from the Way". At the end pitching his over 50 hours of Youtube teachings, along with 3 linked specific teachings. Multiple times he talks about how he doesn't have the time to dissect Dan's paper, then proceeds to quote a dozen verses and teach anyway. Incongruent, inauthentic. His sidekick for whatever ministry he is currently bilking followers out of money with his "coffee can" Jon T0uchstone came on here and tried to dialog, then bailed pretty quickly. His main point is that speaking in tongues is proof that you're born again. Jesus taught that you know people by their fruit. As a further explanation on that topic, here on GSC we had quite the long discussion and investigation into factual evidence that exists in the world today regarding speaking in tongues, and how it is commonly counterfeited. I'll search for the links if any are interested. Actually if you want a summary of this 13-page self-promotional document, I think I can give it to you in a 19 second YouTube video and spare you the agony of watching any more of Jallyroll's teaching videos.