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  1. 6 points
    DWBH, what can I say? Thank you SO much for the love and your comments. I can’t quite find the words to tell you all how much I appreciate being welcome here. To answer a couple comments - I have 4 therapists and am on a battery of meds. I’ve been doing this latest round of hard work with said therapists for a year and a half. I think what has discouraged me is how deep the injuries go into my subconscious mind. But I am and will continue working. Being ME here is a big step I’ve wanted to take for years. Thanks again for the comfort <3
  2. 6 points
    Hey, all. It’s been awhile since I’ve stepped into the diner. I’m outing myself today because it’s too painful to keep my silence anymore, and I’m struggling right now. My name is Leah - I’m LCM’s oldest child. I don’t know what to do next...I feel like I need to speak, but I don’t know what to say. I’m just so tired of hurting. Penworthy, it’s lovely to “see” you here. I so appreciate your compassion...
  3. 6 points
    I was involved with the Way International Ministry for over 20 years. PFAL class grad 1974, Advanced Class 1979, WOW Vet 1994-1995. I raised my family in the word, according to leadership. Three of my four children are Advanced Class grads. My oldest daughter went WOW after High School graduation, 1991-1992. When she came back home to Ohio, she married a wonderful man who was also raised in the word and involved with The Way International. When the "dang hit the Fan" - Martindale and the leadership doing their "mark and avoid" trip - my family was kicked out for standing up to leadership (NO disagreements allowed or condoned). However, my firstborn and her husband stayed in. So we joined the ranks, like so many other God-Loving families, of being split apart. We had many years of little contact. She moved around the country, and they became ever more active in the new regime headed by Rivenbark and crew. I started constant prayer when she informed me that her husband, herself, and my two grandchildren were committed to becoming Way Corps - #37. I have occasionally read the experiences of former Way Corps leadership who have left, on these forums. To mention I was "troubled" by the course their lives were headed is an understatement. They spent one year in-residence and became graduated Way corps leadership in the Post-Martindale Way international. Once again they moved across the country to serve in various leadership capacities. With the horror stories of experiences endured while living at Headquarters, I was disturbed (heart and soul) when my beautiful daughter told me that her family was moving back to Ohio and living as staff Way Corps at Headquarters. NO-NO-NO-PLEASE GOD NO!!! They were (WERE) on staff for a few years...and this is why I wanted to share the GOOD NEWS OF GOD'S DELIVERANCE--- My daughter and son-in-law have moved away from New Knoxville and they resigned their Way Corps status!!!!! HALLELUJAH!!! i have been praying for them to wake up and it took being on the inside at the Way International Headquarters to finally open their eyes to the corrupt rot that infests that Ministry. They bought a house and have secular jobs now. I just had a long conversation with my daughter and am thankful to know it was a fully-aware and committed joint decision to cut ties to the Way International and "lay low" in order to adjust to the real world. She didn't go into details, but my heart leaped within me for joy when she told me, "Mom, I quit drinking their kool-aid!" Our God Almighty is SO AWESOME!!! And His deliverance is available - in His timing. She's finally free!! Her husband and children are free!! I am so thankful that I learned the truth of God's Word via the classes and teaching of the Way, but after I left I experienced how large our heavenly Father is - He is not constricted in a box or by the dogma of The Way International. Now her family has that freedom to live a truly abundant life together. My prayers have been answered. God bless for allowing me to share the fullness of my heart right now. Above all, I know you all know what this feels like.
  4. 6 points
    Insanity is often quoted as......"Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." ..........but with cult-splinter insanity, I find myself wondering if they are doing the same thing over and over again desiring the SAME results. With nearly 20 years of internet exposure..... Waydale and Greasespot Café.......surely IF these corps leaders had an ounce of integrity and empathy for others, they'd see the errors of their ways, no? What do ALL of the cult offshoots have in common? A self-appointed leader claims to have "the Word" and teach "it" to others. He offers up dissention and disagreements with martindale or rivenbark........and gives wierwille adulation. Without objective reflection and further seminary training or study, he tweaks the wierwille-teachings only slightly. Same pyramid structure is implemented..........same centralization, same lording over others, same rules on giving money. Now that you've met the *new boss, same as the old boss*..........how can you possibly expect DIFFERENT RESULTS? After exiting The Way International Cult.........how many got entrapped into another splinter group for another decade or more? Insanity right? And, within these various splinters......how many more twisted perversions were promoted and propagated by the spiritual elite (cough, cough) among us? The Geer group plunged into the posthumous indoctrinations of geer's idol, wierwille. CES/STFI grafted in new age, self-help quackery like Momentus and personal prophesies and nose spiders. Egads! And, CFF took you back to the nostalgia "good old days of twi" when that young blood was coursing thru your veins. Oh, the memories....... Here a splinter, there a splinter.............everywhere there is ANOTHER splinter. Whether the R&R group will get rooted is still questionable.......but Rico's upstart - Oikeos is another baby cult that is flailing its arms and legs. Nourished on the milk of "Wierwille's Word" this infant will grow up in the image of wierwille...........same result, same outcome as its mother-cult. IMO.........these splinters have NOTHING to do with serving and ministering to others, but rather are SELF-SERVING OVERLORDS. These corps cleave to the cult model, because they have no real-life job experience in the real world. At best, they would be hard to find middle management jobs, sales jobs or seek self-employment. There are near-zero employers out there who are willing to hire a 56-66 year old man who has been fossilized into an obscure "Christian" group for 35 or 40 years. Two years ago, I documented a timeline of my experiences during the Martindale Era.....Insanity on Steroids.......and it was crazy then. But now, seeing these corps who stayed ANOTHER 17 YEARS of Rivenbark's Reign of Error.........and now, wanting to claim the mantle of *Leadership* is laugh-out-loud appalling. What a bunch of weasels. Until they clean and sanctify themselves from all of wierwille cult, top to bottom, thoroughly and throughly............they are a blight on the body of Christ. They disappoint and diminish and destroy by seeking opportunities for filthy lucre's sake. Beware of their pernicious ways as they twist and pervert words to indulge and profit in this seduction. They seek those who've had their minds grooved with cult indoctrination and servitude, rather than do the hard work of reaching others. Beware of cults. Beware of groupthink. "In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. " Friedrich Nietzsche
  5. 6 points
    Yes, I remember it well. It was at the end of my first year in the Way Corps. I'm in that film wearing a sweat suit, running down Wierwille Road with other members of the Corps. My to-be father-in-law at that time is the preacher on stage near the end who says, "May your tribe increase." He had no idea what he was really endorsing ... what a pity so many of us spent our youth as pawns spreading VPW's propaganda.
  6. 5 points
    Hi Leah..........welcome to the Café. For those of you who grew up at hq and had parents in leadership positions, I can only imagine the hardships, scrutiny, challenges and fear that were embedded into your psyche at such a young age. As you distinguished astutely in an earlier post.....it sounds like you are well on your way to separating your "cult self" from your "authentic self." And further, you have now established proper boundary lines with your family and loved ones by openly and publically stating what is acceptable, and not acceptable, to you. Good for you! Keep claiming what is rightfully YOURS.......an "authentic self." Individual sovereignty........to think, explore, believe, live, challenge, and commit to the passions that burn within your soul. My wife and I exited twi nearly 21 years ago after, what I would term, six turbulent years as leadership in Oklahoma. Suffice it to say that I spent time with your parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, and some of your first cousins. Look how their lives have changed in the past 20-something years! Commitments changed. Perspectives altered. None of what they were, or weren't, committed to should hold sway to YOUR goals, passions or self-esteem. You have every right and reason to pursue this journey of self-exploration. And, from the sounds of things.....you've read some good books and, for years, have read threads here at GSC. Good for you. Go at the pace that fits your schedule. Most all of us have a past of *burdens, hurts and fears* that we are working thru or have overcome........hell, I went thru 10-days of deprogramming to fight my way back to my fiancé and then, dealt with years of being estranged from my parents/family. So, yeah......I can relate to the challenges one faces of self-authenticity and autonomy. Live on the sunrise side of the mountain......and greet the days that are before you. You are a brave woman and I commend you for it.
  7. 5 points
    Welcome, Leah. About time!! You will get a lot of support here.
  8. 5 points
    When the rapture does take place, the world will not know it because so many people who CALL themselves Christians will still be here.
  9. 4 points
    Hey everyone, I’ve been looking at this site for years and decided to join. I was raised in The Way and just left in 2017, with my husband who was also raised in The Way. We left after seeing the deep corruption and evil within the organization, and after becoming Christians within 24 hours of each other. We have found true freedom and healing over the past 2 years in getting to know Jesus as our God, and though our families have rejected us, have found an amazing family within our church community. Both my husband and I desire to help those who are struggling with leaving The Way, and who are struggling with doing the brain surgery required to unravel all of the lies. We have been able to maintain our faith through this process, and actually understand what “freedom in Christ” means. Personally, I am still working through a variety of issues resulting from my upbringing (both from TWI and a rough parent situation). Counseling and inner healing ministry have been incredibly helpful, and I am hopeful that with time, I will be completely free. Our prayer is to see The Way die completely, and we pray for healing to those who have left but still hold onto the harmful beliefs that the cult teaches its followers. So many people leave TWI but are never truly free from it. My husband and I are available if anyone has questions, or if you are hurting and need a friend who understands what you’re going through.
  10. 4 points
    In my view, even though it's often revolting to read VPW's own incriminating words that illustrate how deranged he was, it's a valuable way to gain understanding of how he used classic cult leader tactics to keep us Corps from thinking independently and to make himself appear blameless in the face of evidence to the contrary.
  11. 4 points
    Parkland consumed our entire metro staff for the better part of a year. I talked to parents, interviewed witnesses, and have attended all but a few court hearings, sitting a few yards away from the young man who committed this monstrous act. My byline is on one of the 20 articles submitted. The fingerprints of every staffer can be found on every article. If ever there was a team prize, this was it.
  12. 4 points
    Oh Leah, I am so happy you are here. You know I love you and am here whenever you want to talk! I had no idea that you were BecomingMe. Wow! You are cared about here in ways you'll never fully know!
  13. 4 points
    Hi Leah! Don’t you dare quit! You ARE on the right path. It’s right because YOU are choosing it. YOU are determining who YOU are! That is the single most difficult task of human development, and at the same time, the most rewarding and fulfilling. That’s why I said, “don’t you dare quit”. You will make it to your authentic YOU if you just keep on going. Damn the hurt, the pain, the fear, the shame, the guilt, and the weariness. Just keep on keepin’ on! According to the 8 stages of human development, the 4th One is “identity formation”. Usually, according to the data, it occurs between the ages of 20-32. It follows adolescence, (12-19), and it is THE critical stage of human development. Observe the usual activities people in the age range 20-32 are engaged in these days in our frenetic culture.....college, trade school, the military, all crucial development tools which help one to self-determine her/his occupation, basic philosophy of life, and accepting who you have decided to be. For most of us here, those were the very years we got involved with TWIt. The TWIt cult stunted our development at the most critical stage. Dictor paul’s psychiatric dysfunctions and perversions, along with the Nazi-like authoritarianism and militarism of his corpse program produced what I term, a forced adolescence upon all wayfers, because the way took over determining our identities with it’s cult indoctrination and a rigid military-like discipline in order to “be the best” according to what the cult determined was “best”, period. But, the incredible cognitive dissonance we all experienced between what wierwille said and what wierwille DID became too much for us to bear, eventually driving our “authentic” selves back to the surface from under the smothering mind control and extreme peer pressure from the cult, and, avouding a psychological breakdown, we summoned enough personal courage to get the hell out of Dodge and retake control of our own, authentic lives....lives WE choose and people WE choose to be with. That’s where the anxiety and depression become an issue. There is so much cognitive dissonance that it usually requires professional help from a licensed counselor in order to sort it all out. It is, unfortunately, a necessity for most, because we have no sense of ourselves outside the complete dominance of the cult in every part of our minds and bodies. Our personal human development was detoured by a destructive religious cult, but by the strength of will and reason, WE now get to determine who and what we are according to OUR standards, beliefs, and desires. This takes time and a bunch of getting used to, but the end of adaptation is FREEDOM, liberty, and confidence that you can do it again as often as necessary. As you can see, I too can ramble! LOL. But more importantly, I want to strongly encourage you to keep on going! YOU ARE on the right path for YOU. We’ve all been at multiple crossroads in our lives, and we are here to help, to listen, to encourage, to inspire, and to hug whenever you need help along your journey to self-actualization. A cool glass of water and a cold, juicy peach on a hot day, passed on to a fellow traveller with love, unspoken understanding, and a joyful smile to help you hang in there baby!! That’s the GSC. As you said, by the grace of God, you have a full life! A loving partner, 2 lovely babies, a good career doing something YOU love because YOU love it and trained for it. YOU did all that! YOU! And YOU will conquer the current difficulties with the help of others also traveling the freedom road to self-identification and rewarding fulfillment......you’ll see REAL fruit of the spirit in your life and you will be happy and at peace. Don’t you dare quit! We love YOU because of who and what YOU are. You belong. You are free to be you. Just do it! We’ll help in any way we can. Peace.
  14. 4 points
    Well, I only feel comfortable speaking for myself, and I’m not so great. Working on it, though. I have a life that is full and that I’m really grateful for - two little girls, a husband (also a former Way kid), a career that I love in education. Now if I can work out really detaching the old way programming from my head, I’ll be all right...
  15. 4 points
    Gimme the sermon I heard in church last Sunday, any time. I really think that many of these people at R&R started out with a desire to love God, but got sidetracked along the way, fell into the ego tramp, and now they're climbing the greasy pedestal. Mary likes to hang about and talk to people, especially newbies. Is that because it gives her the opportunity to show off her supposed knowledge? It'd be nice if one or some of them spoke about the six months or year or more that they had spent volunteering daily (or at least weekly) at a shelter for homeless people, or for battered wives, or helping drug addicts, prostitutes, child laborers, and such like. You know, the ones with no money and a hard attitude to life. The ones who call "do-gooder" hypocrisy for what it is. Some place these teachers get their hands dirty in the sh-t of life. Fab opportunities to see people really turn their lives around; it's a very slow process.
  16. 4 points
    Thanks Everyone. I appreciate the warm welcomes. I honestly have no idea how many people are left there. They keep that stuff pretty close to the vest. I can say though, that when I went WayD in '99 there were probably 50 to 60 people going out on the field from Gunnison, the West of the Mississippi group. The last WayMag I saw had pics of the folks going out and the groups were significantly smaller, as in the 5 to 10 range. Also, a development that would affect the numbers involved is the split that was the final straw for us. Yes, there has been another split up. A number of WayCorps had apparently started a group to discuss some grievances that they wanted to address to address to Rivenbark about how she was running things and how people were not seeing signs, miracles, and wonders. And the teaching from HQ had become uber stale. Ok, so I'm trying to remember and I may have some of details wrong, but this is what happened to the best of my recollection. This group began calling themselves Revival and Restoration, because their original intent was to reform TWI not leave it. I believe they first sent a letter outlining their "challenges" and solutions, and their intent to be respectful and work together with the BOD to figure it all out. I think they did call for the resignation of Rivenbark though. Anyways, Rico Magnelli, I think, had a meeting with her after the letter was sent where she summarily dismissed everything and, If my recollection is correct basically fired him. The letter was signed by some names you might know like Fort, Roberts, Moynihan, Horney, and Carter, to name a few. Anyways, this group had a list of grievances, including financial transparency, BOD accountability, and punishment of way corp for questioning Rivenbark etc. There were quite a few accusations. Anyways, our branch coordinators, whom we loved very much, were dropped in a backhanded way of just not being given an assignment. Also, the folks who had been our area coordinators for only a year, The Stiles were dropped for questioning Rivenbark. So this group has broken off from TWI and has reformed. Last I knew they were still calling themselves Revival and Restoration. My husband and I had been eyeing the door for some time, so we took it as our opportunity to leave. I still love many people involved in both groups, but I am not interested in being a part of any of them. I've had my fill of authoritarianism. I have the letters and other emails describing what went down. Maybe I'll go back through them and refresh myself, idk. I know some of you said you left around the time I joined, which was only a couple of years after "the fog" in 1990. When I first joined my fellowship was a very relaxed sort of hippyish deal. I smoked my first joint there, and had sex with someone in that fellowship for the first time. As time went on it became more and more controlling, and much more conservative. At one point we were instructed that it wasn't wise to go anywhere alone. Also, we were supposed to let the state leadership of any group know if we were even just traveling through their state so that we would be "spiritually covered." My husband and I, who were in our early 20's, were thoroughly reamed out at a meeting in front of everyone of course, that we attended on a trip we were taking because we hadn't let anyone know we would be in that state on our way to our destination. There was a "homo hunt" at the rock of ages in 95. Martindale became obsessed with homosexuality and in included in his version of the foundational class The Way of Abundance and Power that the thing that Eve partook of was a lesbian relationship with Satan who appeared as a woman, and Adam accepted it. (They subsequently just left that whole thing out of the foundational class they recorded after he was kicked) I often wondered if it was because of the alleged relationship between Donna and Rivenbark. When everything went down with LCM we were instructed not to look up anything to do with anything about the ministry or any of the people involved on the internet. Of course, this was to "protect us from the fiery darts of the wicked." After LCM left, everything became super boring and repetitive. Say what you will about him, but LCM was at least charismatic and entertaining. Rivenbark has a quieter gentler form of control and abuse. Over the years people tried to get us to move to HQ, but I was always struck at how robotic and fake anyone who went there came back. We actually did end up deciding to go into the way corps in 2003, and had all of our paperwork in when I ended up accidentally getting pregnant with our first child. Thank God for that. By the time we were eligible again, my husband had decided it wasn't for him. Shortly after I found out we were pregnant we moved back to my home state because I wanted my kids to have their grandparents close, and my father was dying. I was a new mom and I was traveling the hour and a half to visit my dad as much as possible and my fellowship coordinator had the audacity to "encourage me to spend more time with the household that I was." At that point I had started to see how much the ministry had come between my family and myself and I was trying to heal those relationships. I basically told him that my father was dying and I was going to get every minute I could with him and that I would never again put the ministry before my family and he would just have to get used to it. That was the first time I ever remember standing up for myself. from there it took 14 more years to officially leave. That's the short version of everything. It wasn't all bad, but I'm still working through things. I feel like an idiot at times for letting some of the stuff go on, or being involved with some of the things I was. For the last couple of years since leaving I have thrown myself into other things. I think I just needed some distance. After appearing on a podcast to talk about my experiences a few months ago, I have started to realize I need to work through some of this stuff now. I appreciate your listening. I'm sorry if this jumps around and is choppy. I find myself a little lost for words when it comes to some of this stuff, which is very unusual for me.
  17. 4 points
    R and R - Martin Luther's objections to Roman Catholic doctrine and practice led his actions. RC doctrine was a hybrid of the Bible's "saved by faith" or as Paul put it another doctrine that wasn't really another doctrine but a completely different animal of it's own kind. Luther also objected then of course to them selling Indulgences, certificates that gave remission of sins after one died. Now THAT'S a scam worthy of some effort. If you're going to absolutely degrade anything resembling even the slightest bit of good, then go all in - put one's eternal future on it and sell that puppy. Sit back and watch it roll in. Pretty nifty. If you're THE DEVIL. Anyway, Luther wasn't really trying to demolish or destroy the Catholic Church, he wanted to clean it up, purge it. He also had some ideas that would become popular later, like getting rid of the Jews in Germany. Anyway... Restoring and reviving is only important to people's lives. I can say that easily because whatever I lost through my dis association with the Way has been far outweighed by not having to be entangled with their bullsh it. The only thing I care about still today are the people involved, but if they're happy stewing and simmering there I can't do anything about that. Frankly I've never made it a full time job to "save" them from themselves. Cuz they don' a wanna change, so they's a not a gonna change, no matta wattah I do. Luther never got the RC's to change. Well, maybe a teeny bit sort of over years but not in any real substantive way that they would recognize. More recently I think it was Pope Benedict who tried to establish some ecumenical platform for RC's accepting a couple tenets of Protestant theology buuuuuut I think that's just window dressing on the ol' RC Childcare Store front. I mean, they're church face. Anyway - that's why I don't worry about what the next wave of geezers leaving the Way is doing. The only advice I would give them is they aren't young anymore, so there's not a lot of years to burn doing something you don't really want to do. So get busy livin' and get on with it.
  18. 4 points
    I had the forums hosted by others for a number of years. We were shut down when Twi made complaints. This happened, I believe, twice. So the solution was to have my own server. And then we wouldn't be shut down. I covered the costs out of my own pocket up until a few years back. I moved from a physical server to a virtual server a number of years ago to reduce costs. Donations are completely voluntary, you are under no obligation to donate. I chose the most reliable companies, not the cheapest so there would be the least downtime. Companies like SiteGround are great, but they can shut you down. I have to ensure that the site can't get shut down. I've used PHPBB and I've found that Invision is more robust and have better support when you need it.
  19. 4 points
    Let's boil the cabbage down, shall we? We were The Way's sales force. No salary, no commissions, just ridicule and chastisement if we failed to meet sales quotas. It's important to understand that PFAL was not the main product. PFAL and the accompanying series of classes were the enticement The real product, or goal, if you prefer, was to find people who would faithfully donate 10, 15, 20% (or more) of their income... paycheck after paycheck, month after month and year after year. Yes, they made a profit on the classes, but it was chump change compared to a lifetime of handing over your hard earned cash. It was a scam, folks. The sooner someone comes to grips with that realization, the more time and resources they have left to rise back up from the rubble. Sunk Cost Fallacy
  20. 4 points
    Hi At A Loss! i am so sorry for the insane and totally unnecessary havoc wreaked upon your lives by the ignorant bigotry of moron wayfers. Greg Lewis was a loser before he was in the 7th corpse, and as usual, the corpse made him into an even bigger asshole and bigot! I knew him back then, and the fact that he was ever a limp coordinator ANYWHERE, let alone CA, proves how utterly and pathetically void of anything near “leadership” TWIt has been since 1986! The fact that an ignorant, talent-less, dumbass below average schlepp like Lewis would be assigned as anything above chair-stringer is yet more proof of the utter dearth of normal human beings in any nook and cranny of wayworld. LOL! If you were not so far away in miles, I would suggest you sue the shit out of them for kidnapping your grandson and estranging him from his father and paternal grandparents. That is illegal unless adjudicated by a court of law. Expensive yes! Maybe even prohibitively so. But, you do have the right to do so. Money may be the biggest hindrance. Whatever happens, DO NOT accept one ounce of bullshit from these morons. They are insane and immoral. They are a danger to the mental and physical well-being of your grandson. There are numerous effective anti-cult groups that may be able to assist you. But I warn you, anything less than cold-hearted JUSTICE will not help you. You must be tough as nails if you want access to your grandson. This is a child custody and child welfare issue. Don’t quit! You’ll win! Godspeed to you and your family! P.S.....BTW, shiftthis is FOS. If he’s still stuck on waybrain stupid the best thing you can do is ignore the identity confused adolescent stuck in the 1980s of TWIt idiocy and hypocrisy. LOL!
  21. 4 points
    Hey.........take this class, it will change your life! At the end of pfal class.......you need to be sure to sit in the next pfal class that's available. No one gets the depth of it the first time. And then, ........ the Renewed Mind class will be running in a couple of months, followed by Dealing with the Adversary class........and Christian, Family and Sex will be running in July, just before we go to the Rock of Ages. You are now qualified to take your place on the class crew treadmill to help others......i.e. helping others means to get them to take class after class, too. So, you faithfully witness, sign up friends and family and neighbors.........little do you realize, at first, that false teachers using feigned words covet your involvement, because YOU are the targeted product. They want YOU to become the walking, talking billboard of their classes, events, camps, and advanced class specials. These false teachers (cult leaders) want you to follow them in their "pernicious ways" [II Peter 2:1-3]........loss, ruinous, destructive ways. Loss of money. Loss of family ties. Sabotaging marriages and careers........for the sake of zealously moving the cult's classes and agenda. Up your commitment and go WOW or Way Corps.......i.e. putting yourself in a position to "lead others." LOL As you keep co-joining in THEIR agenda, you become complicit in their pernicious, evil ways. If you were paying attention........you will have noticed that the cult hierarchy has dropped the advanced class cliché of reaching spiritual maturity. See.....EVEN AFTER the advanced class, you're not really that "advanced." Same deal with WOW....or the Way Corps. Once you "graduate" from the corps, you start at the bottom rung of "a lifetime of twi-servitude" and are often kicked around in a menial job at twi-hq. Like a cog on a big wheel, you may be on top for a short period of time.....only to find tremendous stress when you're on the bottom, again. You're "free".......as long as you stay committed to twi-servitude. The dirty little secret is that once you start connecting these dots, they VERBALLY ABUSE you with fear! In closed meetings, the cult uses words like "cop-out, possessed, worldly, lost his salt, loss of rewards, greasespot by midnight." How did it turn so ugly? Or, was it always ugly.....and masked to look good? Now, not only do they threaten you with words, they institute the practice of ex-communication. After 15-20 years of institutionalized indoctrination, one is more likely to succumb to cult obedience than to dissent. It's a matter of social psychology, not spirituality. How did it all get so crazy? How did you get trapped in the hall-of-horrors at this amusement park? Simple: False teachers used fabricated classes to indoctrinate the unsuspecting.......and coveted your involvement to make merchandise of you. How could you NOT suspect that splinter groups will do the same....... .
  22. 4 points
    Taxi, I think if JAL had done "some actual research," he would know that most of VPW's teachings about the Bible were off! If VPW was wrong, than JAL would be wrong, because he followed after VPW. I don't think JAL would ever publicly admit that most of what he has been teaching, is wrong. John has a huge ego, and he isn't a humble person; God forbid that he admit to being an ordinary person like you, and I.
  23. 3 points
    As many of you know, I stepped back from active management of GSC a few years back. I left the management in capable hands. I had a nervous meltdown. Disagreement turned into verbal battles. I always wanted this place to be a safe haven for those that left or was in the process of leaving or was thinking of leaving. This would be a place of solace. Lately, for some, attacking seems to be the color of the day. Why the need to attack? Why the need to call people names. My attitude has been if you are getting in vicious place, step away from the keyboard! The internet is rampant with vicious bravery behind a wall of anonymity I only have one word to those guilty of this, Stop! At least on this site. And as an aside, the hosting company has been double billing me, we are trying to work this out. If the site is not accessible in the next few days, don't worry.
  24. 3 points
    Back when lcm drove off 80% of twi in 88-89 with his "line in the sand", a fellow with the screen-name of Cesar Salad said he thought the biggest problem with lcm was that he wasn't able to get humble enough to "wash the apostles' feet" and so he wasn't fit for ministry work, since it was for HIS OWN glory and not for Jesus. It's no different for any other alleged "leader" that vpw trained, or vpw's machine trained. They all want to be the top dog- so all of them are UNWORTHY to be ministers. All of them want to be SERVED and not to SERVE.
  25. 3 points
    Questions That Should Be Answered By R&R Leaders: Now that you guys are no longer with twi........are you, as described by wierwille, "cop-outs?" Do you think that you are possessed with *deceiving spirits* because you are not meek to twi's board of directors? If you are characteristically mislabeled (misjudged) and slandered......what about all other corps/clergy before you? Was wierwille using bully-tactics against others who "abandoned" his authoritarian rule? Since you've walked away from those who "taught you the Word"......have you lost all those rewards at the bema? Now that you are labeled "mark and avoid"......has your understanding of that term changed? Wierwille died of cancer.......do you still teach, as wierwille did, that cancer is a devil spirit? What about the "law of believing".......wasn't it misconstrued by cherry-picking scriptures? Let's address plagiarism. Wierwille stole B.G. Leonard's class and taught it as his own, didn't he? Books, articles, and sermons were "lifted" along the way....with hardly a mention to Stiles, Bullinger, or others? And, the "Red Thread" teaching was Rev. Oral Roberts "The Fourth Man" teaching......wierwille simply tweaked it, right? How about we talk about the *holy spirit field*..........if this was such a cornerstone of wierwille's ministry (cough, cough) why has it been neglected for the past 30 years? Who ever notes, in present-day reality......the demonstration of the spirit of word of knowledge, word of wisdom or discerning of spirits? Heck, I sat in the BRC in 1981 when Dr. Wierwille vehemently stated that an 8th corps guy had a daimon spirit......and after stern confrontation and fuming, wierwille walked away from this guy. No spirit was cast out and the corps guy went back to his unit, graduated, and went on LEAD staff. Huh? What are you guys doing to correct the DOCTRINAL errors that wierwille taught? What are you guys doing to "heal the bruised and broken-hearted" of those who wierwille and martindale sexually abused? Why are all of you guys "teachers?"...... Doesn't anyone have the gift of Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist or a Pastor? Sheesh.....it reminds me of the saying, "Those that can't do....teach." I've got lots more questions..............but this is a good start. And, another thing........you guys REALLY need to pull your head out of this echo chamber of self-congratulations and cognitive dissonance. Go to church for a couple of months and learn from them. You guys sound boring as hell.
  26. 3 points
    Step 2: Employ slippery slope fallacy Step 3: Do the non-sequitur/straw man two-step. If inerrancy is the lynchpin of your faith, you will be joining me in the ranks of unbelievers very soon. A reasonable person can only deny the obvious for so long. Regardless, there are a great, great many Christians who recognize that Biblical inerrancy is incompatible with the truth. The book has a LOT of errors and contradictions. It does not follow that recognizing the existence of actual errors and blatant contradictions will turn you into an atheist. But the cognitive dissonance that comes with dodging, denying, and never admitting an error is an error eventually gets to you. How much easier is it to say that different people telling a story passed down for decades transposed some of the details than to try to make those errors fit into one cohesive narrative that not a single writer managed to tell? Inerrancy is the atheist's best friend, I assure you. It should be noted that "the scripture cannot be broken" in John 10:35 does not refer to the New Testament or the gospels, as (assuming Jesus actually said it) Jesus said it decades before any of the N.T. was written. So we KNOW Jesus wasn't talking about inerrancy in the gospels.
  27. 3 points
    What does that mean. Dukie? LCM was insane, and caused so much pain and hurt? Because that's the reality. I suffered much because of this man and his perverted teachings. It has stolen many years of my life. It was painful. It isn't now. You will probably find most of the posters on this thread think similarly. We post here of our experiences, not because we hang onto the past in an unhealthy way, but because it seems that many still don't know or understand. It sounds rather like you are one of those people.
  28. 3 points
    Thanks Grace, I haven't been around here much for a long time, and had never seen that link from Penworks (Thx, Penworks, BTW), but on all the other pretty current. I was at the reading of POP at corps week in '86. Have read portions since. My gawd, that poor man, look at the burden on him and how he really serves and shields the MOGFOT and how he tries so hard, and no matter what he just keeps trying, and the hurt and pain of OUR beloved MOGFOT, oh, I wish I had been there.....sob sniff tears.....NOT. I also know two fellas, 8th and 10th, who flew to Gartmore with another Rev back then to get an OK to go around the overturned eighteen wheel "Yuk" twig, or get instructions on what to do. They wanted to see Geer. These three were doing the run around on their higher ups at HQ. Another mutiny inside a mutiny like the little Russian dolls. The one where DWBH was confronting all of 'em seems like. They were going to wrest back this "thing" away from them, or do whatever had to be done, and get it back on track. And, it would have been just as awful. Firstly, DWBH would have had to confront at least one of them, too. That was a sprout of the first offshoot...it died. Asked my old Bro' in person 3 years ago, "Why did you go?" "To find out how to save the minus-try." Said his plan had always been a "career" in the minus-try. He had climbed up to Limb Coor. by '85. "So, what did he tell you? Anything? Or, did he just sorta' look at you with that psychzoid I'm getting revelation don't mess with me kinda' look?" Hardly nothing, he says....a whole week! Hope they were Scotch drinkers! Hope it wasn't raining on your parade there in sunny Scotland! Honestly? It's really kinda' super hard to see miracles and have joy and love and those things without the Holy Spirit, who, best guess, had to grievingly depart from Twit, if it ever was really there much at all because of the corruption and sin. But, to me, most especially, the Holy Spirit had to leave because of the denial of Who Jesus really is...the Christ...the Logos in Person! Not a Book. Found in That Book...not the Book. Knows my name, every hair counted, loves me as the Good Shepherd that He is, Was, Always shall be. Mine. His. He's spoken of in the banned books section of the Twit archives: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. That's where I met Him before the way. He's still there. And, it seems, from what I've read, it didn't take long after the first coups of Heefner and Doop (not quite my time yet) for the fabric to begin to fray. Anyway, Grace, thank you. Boy, I sailed away on that one.
  29. 3 points
    Welcome to this site, sastain, where you'll read many posts that reveal other sides to The Way story than what you'll find on its website or from Wierwille's loyalists. I was in the 2nd Way Corps (with Gerry Wre*n) and a member of VPW's research team. So I invite you to check out my own website at https://charleneedge.com for blogs on cults and fundamentalism, and The Way. Cheers to expanding our understanding of our Way experiences! Charlene Edge
  30. 3 points
    1. "Sadly, I cannot get this man to accept the notion that the Bible really is the word of God." Ok, let's start there. The Bible never calls itself the Word of God. That's part of the problem right there. The Bible speaks of the Word of God quite often, but it never has the self-awareness to declare itself to be that Word. Maybe, just maybe, you can be wrong about the Bible being the Word of God and still be a good Christian. 2. "I think he would like it to be..." Well, no one asked you what you think, did they? Maybe he has no preference one way or another and is just waiting for you to make a plausible case for your thesis. 3. "... but is overly obstinate and has an awful attitude towards God and his plan for man's redemption." A lot to unpack there. Has it occurred to you that maybe YOU're the one being "obstinate" with an "attitude" that won't budge no matter how many facts he presents to counter your preconceived notion that the Bible is the Word of God? Like, maybe YOU're the stubborn one, not him? Because he shows you the Bible, and you start making excuses. Oh, that's the Old Testament. God's different now. He's really kind and gentle. He did what he did before because he HAD to to fulfill the plan of redemption. Problem: The plan of redemption is only the plan of redemption because God wanted it that way. It didn't have to be. He could just accept an apology without shrugging his shoulders and saying oh well because someone found a particular fruit of a particular tree to yummy to pass up (He also could have put that tree ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET but instead put it right in front of two people who did not know good and evil; then said don't eat from that tree. Not exactly a strong case for omniscience. It's like I put a cookie on the table in front of my 7-year-old and said "Don't eat that," then walked out of the room. He's gonna eat the cookie. I'm not all knowing, and I know that). So your friend, I submit, is not stubborn. Rather, he's amused at the contortions you'll twist yourself into to deny what's obviously written. There IS not idiom of permission in the Bible. Bullinger, for what he's worth, appears to be the only one who makes an issue of it. It's hardly a scholarly consensus. The existence of other figures of speech does not verify the "idiom of permission" as something the Bible employs on a regular basis. It is, however, an extraordinarily convenient tool for believers to employ whenever their holy book shows God doing what no good God would ever do, even though the book is unambiguous about it being God who did it. But that's just the old testament. Unless, of course, you're holding back tithes from the apostles in Acts, which is New Testament. (Oh, but it doesn't say God did that. It was Satan -- even though the Bible doesn't say THAT either). The Bible is filled with examples of God saying he'll do something and then saying He did it. It doesn't say he allowed it to happen or he allowed Satan to do it. It says HE did it. Now, it COULD have said he allowed Satan to do it, very easily. Look at Job. Satan did those things. It says so. Yeah, he got God's permission, but it says that, clearly. There's no ambiguity, and there's no "this is how it works normally." A figure of speech is supposed to be a statement that is true in essence though not literally true. "It's raining cats and dogs" is a figure of speech. "This car can stop on a dime" is a figure of speech. A figure of speech is not supposed to be a way for you to get the Bible to say the opposite of what it clearly says just because what it clearly says is inconvenient for your theology. God ordered the execution of a man for picking up sticks on the sabbath. He didn't give man permission to kill the offending sabbath breaker. He gave man an order -- cast those stones! God didn't allow divorce. He prescribed it. He didn't allow Satan to kill all the firstborn of Egypt. He had it done. And he DID have a choice. When my kid offends me, I have a choice how to discipline him. You have no idea how many times my discipline has stopped short of killing him because he did his chores between sunset on Friday night and Saturday night! So here's a thought. Bear with me: Maybe your friend isn't the stubborn one in this equation. Maybe he's not the one being inflexible. Maybe, just maybe, he's given this far more thought than you have.
  31. 3 points
    mmph mmmpphh mmmmmphhh mmmmphhh!!!!!!!! MMMPH!!!! You are indeed entitled to your opinion and belief. You are not entitled to make assertions of fact without anyone challenging the assertion. Prove you produced a language. "It sounded like one to me" is not proof. You don't have to "ponder" what to speak to fake a language. In fact, you have to NOT, surprisingly enough. We discussed this ad nauseum in another thread. Feel free to explore it. It got a little out of hand at times (mea culpa) but the gist of the thread holds up. SIT is obscenely easy to fake.
  32. 3 points
    I got involved in Sept. 2009. In the following 2 1/2 years i went to all the classes, including advanced class and met and married my husband (he was in for 40 years), I saw so much unbiblical and unloving (downright nasty and hateful) behavior that I would have left by a year later. Eventually my husband saw these behaviors directed at me and we finally left together in 2017. Im an old hippie rebel, non-conformist and never really fit the mold.
  33. 3 points
    It's never a good sign when you have to keep changing your group's name so that people don't know who you are. So, "The Revenant Process" and "Blood and Ethos" and "Master Coaches Academy" and "Efficacius" are all MOMENTUS with a name-change and some window-dressing? Oh, don't forget "Life Design Coaching" , "Legendary Life Strategy" and "the Hero Being Process." That's a LOT of names to lose in the shuffle, all for Momentus, which people steer clear of because they've been warned. https://www.therevenantprocess.com/ https://www.bloodandethos.com/ A "revenant" is a mythic creature, a corpse that drags itself from its grave to haunt the living, and folklorists use it interchangeably with "vampire". The name translates, roughly, as "one who returns." Yeah, Momentus dragged itself from its grave to haunt the living. Sounds about right.
  34. 3 points
    Jim, if you have the date of the story, the name of the paper, and the names of anyone ANYONE involved (like, say, the person who wrote the story), I can hunt it down. This is not.hard.at.all. The notion that journalists would not be interested in verifiable miracles taking place at hospitals is absurd on its face. And someone who was dead for TWO WEEKS only to hpp back up and ask for a filet-o-fish would have made international headlines. People here are being way too nice. This story is horse manure.
  35. 3 points
    Hi there, I used to be able to absorb the costs of this site. Things have changed unfortunately. It costs me about $1200.00 annually. This year, I have received just under $200.00 lf you can afford a donation, it would be much appreciated. It is not required in any way to use this site. I appreciate all the support in past years, I really do. The donate button is on every page, upper left. Thanks.
  36. 3 points
    People it has been like 30 years since most of this stuff went down what the hell are you people doing here still discussing VPW and the rest [I noticed you "necro'd" a thread inactive more than a decade, just to say your peace on a long-dead discussion. If you cared about the subject, 30 years would be no barrier to you. But people were hurt, people died, and people are processing all the information NOW to get their healing and move on. Last of all, new people hear about twi, and they come here to learn about it- then steer clear. We help people by discussing all of this.] I see someone here mentioned this a place for healing - you are kidding right [Just as diabetes medication doesn't help someone who doesn't have diabetes, perhaps the help here is not useful to you- but it can mean life-or-death to another. You can choose to respect that and just let things run their course.] Ralph damn man revengence is mine dairy the Lord (why am I quoting scripture to you Oh My Gosh !!!) you have swallowed the bitter pill and I know you will just rationalize some argument to show I am wrong remember the scripture whatsoever things are pure of good report etc of course you do [Alexander the coopersmith did me much evil- The Lord reward him according to his works. There's warning about evildoers in Scripture. It's not all just shiny "sing Kumbayah and ignore those seeking to harm the flock."] damn you make me angry and VERY sad thwre is still time brother forgive forgive forgive the warning has been sounded long ago! [And it still needs sounding, as long as twi and its clones still exist. People are still arriving and seeking answers-and getting them. This allows them to heal, grow, and get on with their lives.] you are no helping anyone most of all Christ by continuing in this manner [Hundreds of people have posted to say the opposite. We don't know the numbers of those who never signed up to do that- but we know there have been plenty.] peace out
  37. 3 points
    Good morning. If you are not a subscriber to my blogs and are interested in my two-part interview with Ralph Dubofsky regarding his first-hand experience of discovering plagiarism that Victor Paul Wierwille engaged in, here are the links to the blog posts that came out yesterday and today. Interesting they came out during The Way's 75th anniversary month https://charleneedge.com/part-1-of-2-victor-paul-wierwille-and-plagiarism/ https://charleneedge.com/part-2-of-2-plagiarism-v-p-wierwille/ P.S: The Comments feature on each post is now activated. 10-07-18 11:48 am. Cheers, Charlene
  38. 3 points
    Although the sad part (for them) is that this is all about decreasing numbers and delaying the inevitable. They're not joining up because they're currently leaders of growing church organizations. They're both drawing from the ex-twi crowd. That number is smaller every year. So, teaming up to put together the remaining numbers so they look bigger or to try to slow departures from their own groups, or something along those lines. twi is progressively less relevant (although it still wrecks lives), and its ex-twi groups are likewise becoming less relevant.
  39. 3 points
    "Saul and the Witch of Endor- Did the Dead Rise at Her Bidding?" "The Rich Man and Lazarus- an Intermediate State?" Both by Bullinger, pretty much rewritten as the contents of 'ADAN?" The content was plagiarized, and even the "title with a question" format was ripped off. When I mentioned that, vpw defenders skipped over the "all the content came from 2 of Bullinger's works" and fixated on "the format was copied over" and took cheap-shots at me for pointing that out- which pretty much highlighted they couldn't dispute that vpw plagiarized about all the content off of those 2 works of Bullinger, so all they had left was to change the subject and insult me.
  40. 3 points
    True. But I am not for reviving and restoring anything from the past, to be honest. I made a mostly rhetorical statement with that, since I think we can guess that as long as some of these peeps have an audience, an interest and a paycheck be it dollars or just ego-boosting praise and worship, they're going to go their own way. But yeah, remove and replace is the ideal way to go. My view of the Gospels, Acts and Epistles are that while they give me a view of what happened, and why and a strong degree of "what God wants us to know" in terms of doctrine and practice I don't think they should be viewed as the one-and-only way in which to do things, to live. They don't really provide a finished template from which a final product will be produced, rather they give what I'd call a "functional guide" as to how to proceed to build what is really described as a growing, dynamic living organism. We're really like a body, we have attributes of say, a fountain or a river - everyone sees the water and hears the sound of the water but it's not the same water every minute. The whole of the expanse of what is that river or fountain is much larger than the single drops I see at one time. For generations the word "Church" has been synonymous with "Building". The Church has for many been first a place where a leader of some sort presides and the people gather and attend to listen and participate in some form of ritualized activity. Yet we don't see that happening in the first few generations of Christians and there's nothing written indicating that's the desired state for the Christians in the records we see generated by Luke, Paul, Peter, and other writers and scribes of that early era. So we get from the Bible a kind of "how to do all things through Christ, how to be abased and how to abound", in both individual life as well as group church life. The clearest message of the epistles is that there is no need for anything extraneous beyond the people themselves and their ability to come together and meet and interact as a "body" of Christ, with each person an individual part contributing to the whole, with support and assistance from God through Christ to each member. A "diversity" of ways and means, all through that "selfsame spirit". So - and this is like preaching to the choir I suppose - but by building an extensive library of copy cat rituals, traditions and requirements that essentially act as governance for individual and group behavior we, they, whoever, severely restrict their own ability to really "be" the body of Christ. Any artifice or facade, any set of authorization codes for specialized access, any levels of participation, titles, recognition and reward that restricts the free movement of all the parts will reduce and even prevent growth and function. Timothy and Titus give us a well rounded view of how the church should "run" itself, and there aren't any peripherals. Anyway - I find churches pretty boring and dull if all they do is meet/greet/sit down/shut up/listen/and go home, and they'll become germ-farms for all manner of ungodly viruses. Today more and more churches diversify and work "across the aisle" with other churches who may do different things. And they should - if we're all Christian in essence we're all related and have a godly right to our own diversity as well as a godly responsibility to share with others. What say ye?
  41. 3 points
    I also give monthly to Medicine San Frontiers aka Doctors Without Borders. Why? They're definitely not a Christian organization. Why? Because I'm so thankful for the extraordinary access and free healthcare available to me under our National Health Service. Some people have to walk days for medical treatment and even then it's not good. MSF provides services in remote areas, free of charge. I can't help those citizens directly, but indirectly via MSF works for me. And, of course, because God makes his rain, his blessings, fall on the just and the unjust. He has compassion on the needy. He doesn't expect payment, just thanks, and sometimes he gets it.
  42. 3 points
    I used to post here for years, under the name Bramble. This was a place to have a voice, which I didn't have in my 20 years in TWI. While I think about the Way in some fleeting thought almost daily, I haven't been at GSC for years. Hubby and I occasionally chat about the Way or explain what we are talking about to our baffled kids. Just thought I would look around for old time's sake. Still in Wyoming. Kids are grown and busy. I am both feebler and stronger than in years gone by. Looking forward to retirement!
  43. 3 points
    Pay no attention to shiftthis. He has the credibility of a chia pet. (No offense to chia pets.) I wish you well with your situation.
  44. 3 points
    I find it hard to believe that its been 20 years since I finished my final task............then............TOOK THE EXIT RAMP TO REALITY. Even though it was gut-wrenching to stay those last two months.......it was something that I felt I needed to do. In all good conscience, I just couldn't walk away and leave the whole state of Oklahoma in a mess. The advanced class grads had been preparing for these 4 weekends for nearly a year...........and were deeply committed to finishing the Way of Abundance and Power series by attending this final August weekend. [ I stayed for the advanced class grads of Oklahoma........no one else. ] As I have documented here at GSC the growing chasm of distrust and disdain for trustees, most especially beginning in August 1995 (when martindale assigned corps to be on twi's payroll full-time).........what a fast 3-year roller coaster ride! Once we signed on the line (full-time employees).......they treated us like slaves/property. I am not sure that I've ever adequately expressed the box and conundrum of those three years. Martindale claimed that he'd received prophesy from the Lord for all corps to be full-time......and that with this commitment, the spiritual growth in twi was going to be exponentially prevailing. Expect it. Believe it. We labored for 3 years like it was wheat harvesting time EVERY DAY.........14, 16, 18 hours a day. At the Limb level, it was totally crazy the amount of hours we spent each week to keep up with all the faxes and corps assignments from the trunk. Heck, we were crossing over the bridge into the "Promised Land of the Prevailing Word"......and everyone needed to be sanctified and pure from any scintilla of doubt, fear or evil. Not only were we to keep up with all the new information from the newly-embraced wap classes, but martindale would ramble on for 2 1/2 hours every corps meeting, each week. I doubt that I've ever been so busy in my life.....in getting nothing done. What a circus........with elephant man, bearded-lady, dancing bears, and six-legged goats. I have lived to tell my story.......and what a damn scam I found myself in. When I found Waydale two years later.......a new day dawned. Thank you Paul Allen and Pawtucket.........you two are saints !!
  45. 3 points
    TLC, I can't speak for DWBH, nor should I. But, I find DWBH's posts to be quite valuable; unlike most of us, he was in the inner circle of TWI, and saw a lot of the S--t that went on around him. I didn't how evil TWI, and many of its leaders were, until I came to the GSC. Much of what I have learned about VPW's evilness, and Mental Illness, have come from DWBH's posts. I am very thankful, that DWBH is kind enough to share what he knows about TWI, and it's leaders, here. I believe that DWBH and his family, made enormous sacrifices being in TWI. Sometimes, I wonder how he has kept his sanity, all these years, knowing what he knows about the inner workings of TWI. I think if people here at the GSC, have such enormous respect, and honor for him, it is because he has earned it.
  46. 3 points
    As an afterthought there’s something I want to add to the last point of my previous post - of folks referencing Philippians 1 as if to say “don’t be too critical of wierwille’s ministry since Paul wasn’t that harsh on leaders preaching Christ with questionable motives” ...Perhaps the type of preachers Paul had in mind (just going on the caliber of character that the Bible reveals about him ) were equivalent to some televangelists who want you to send your “seed money “ to them so they can buy a bigger and fancier jet for their ministry. Monetary ripoffs are one thing and when one wises up to the scam it might be easier to bounce back from that than sexual molestation which is probably one of the most intimate and deeply personal attacks imaginable... Hey guys, try to develop some empathy here for the women who were victimized...try to imagine how you would feel about all the stuff that wierwille taught you if one day while in the motor coach he drugged you and then he fvcked you up the a$$. I could be way off base in saying this but I just can’t imagine a god who is supposed to be loving and benevolent would also be okay with a sexual predator like wierwille molesting select women just because he also preached the gospel. As if it were a numbers game - his sexual sins / crimes against a small percentage of women was insignificant compared to how many were blessed by his teaching ministry...there’s something so fvcked up by that scale of values ! It’s just my opinion, but I get the idea from the parables of the ONE lost coin, the ONE lost sheep, and the ONE prodigal son in Luke 15 - that God is concerned about the INDIVIDUAL and NOT about how many people you get to take some stupid class or even to fill a stadium...if you don’t think each individual is that important to God then consider Mark 9:42 If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a very large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea... ...I believe it’s such a myopic view to have of wierwille’s reprehensible behavior if one thinks that his victimization of women was no big deal in the grand scheme of things or that (in light of Mark 9:42) there won’t be terrible consequences administered to him for all those he had caused to stumble.
  47. 3 points
    Speaking of Viktor Frankl ... I recently returned from paying my respects at Auschwitz and Birkenau, which is in Poland. All day we walked through the former physical location of hell on earth. Being there, I felt an even deeper shame that I ever considered Wierwille "the man of God." He not only denied the Holocaust but sold the book, The Myth of the Six Million. When I'm ready, I'll be writing about this on my own website. From the book's description on Amazon, "Psychiatrist Viktor Frankl's memoir has riveted generations of readers with its descriptions of life in Nazi death camps and its lessons for spiritual survival. Between 1942 and 1945 Frankl labored in four different camps, including Auschwitz, while his parents, brother, and pregnant wife perished. Based on his own experience and the experiences of others he treated later in his practice, Frankl argues that we cannot avoid suffering but we can choose how to cope with it, find meaning in it, and move forward with renewed purpose. Frankl's theory-known as logotherapy, from the Greek word logos ("meaning")-holds that our primary drive in life is not pleasure, as Freud maintained, but the discovery and pursuit of what we personally find meaningful."
  48. 3 points
    I think Grease Spot often has a twofold attraction to new folks: 1. Some experiences they read about deeply resonate with them too – it strikes a nerve and it won’t quit vibrating! 2. The seemingly endless possibilities and options for those who dare to think – and live – outside the cult-box. ...as long as there are cults around there will always be a need for a website like this!
  49. 3 points
    Yes, after decades of being in the Way, it was so important that we finally realized God is at work outside of "the ministry" and was much bigger than and cannot be contained in the little box the Way put Him in. You would think it was obvious, but it actually was a conclusion we had to come to before we could even consider leaving.
  50. 3 points
    I would like to point out, for new arrivals, that being a Christian is not a requirement of this site. People from a wide variety of belief systems and those with no belief system at all are equally welcome here. This public service announcement has been brought to you by the makers of.......

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