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  1. 7 points
    I knew this woman, but not well. Like most of us, she was idealistic, kind, and good intentioned. So why did she stay so long? IMO, time spent in the cult is relative to a person's needs. What strikes me is how a person misses or denies or misinterprets warning signs. I suppose part of it has to do with survival. Like her, I did that for years, too, especially the misinterpreting or rationalizing of warning signs. Psychologists tell us it's because there's a need in a person to cling to the status quo ... a variety of reasons are clear, i.e. fear of loss of community, loss of certainty, loss of feeling secure about "knowing the truth." I think we all can relate. It's a need so great that admitting what we're doing or believing or giving our loyalty to is bad, or a fraud, or a con, is just too much. We'd crack. Don't we all remember when we "woke up" and how hard that was to admit we had been duped or abused or stolen from? For some of us we nearly did crack up. Some I know have spent time in mental health hospitals, or are in serious therapy, or on heavy medication, or have lost themselves to alcohol or drugs. Or suicide. Breaking up is hard to do. Some people had a casual involvement in TWI. Others were encased in it like in an airtight plastic bag. Breaking free is HARD. I think it's a miracle any of us are here and able to compose a complete sentence. Maybe I should speak for myself, but truly, for those of us who were sold out for so long and gave so much, creating another life post-TWI has been VERY hard work and if it weren't for many good people (many are here on GSC), healing love, education, and time, I can't imagine what would have become of me... So If you ever read this, Melanie, STAY STRONG and breathe deep. It's possible to heal a little every day with love, education, and time. And I ditto what Skyrider said, that Offshoot groups formed by former WAY leaders are not a good option because in general they repeat the patterns from TWI. Besides, bottom line is that the Bible is always open to interpretation by man. The notion of "the accuracy of The Word" is just that, just a notion. No one has it. It can't be had. But that doesn't mean you cannot find valuable things in the Bible. Just question what people tell you it "means." Cheers, Penworks a.k.a. Charlene Lamy (Bishop) Edge I can be reached at http://charleneedge.com/Contact
  2. 6 points
    How presumptuous of "them." "Our days are too precious to squander on the negatives." "Thank God, Paul did not spend time engaging in word battles about concerns that were decades old." First of all, they have NO idea how I (we) have spent our days (years) since exiting twi. Some here, left around 1987......others of us in the 1990s, and some left around 2008. Ten years, twenty years, thirty years..........they have NO clue as to what we've done to rebuild our lives, help our families, ministered to others, and helped our communities. THEY LIVE IN A BOX..... a box that wierwille built. They think that "living the Word" is regurgitating stolen pfal material at every meeting and doing those deadpan manifestations. They have accepted wierwille's deceptive lies........WITHOUT a thorough, critical examination of them from a-z. And yet, they scoff at those of us who do. Of course, they balk at our time spent here at GSC........ we've called them out for their hypocrisy, arrogance and manner of life. Some of them have spent 45-50 years in a cult ....... and refuse to come clean. So, they hide. They hide by mocking our "word battles." They hide by staying in the shadows. They hide by silence. So now....... they attempt to re-build (cough, cough) ANOTHER cult in the image of the mother cult. Same structure, same centralization, same teachings, same manifestations, etc...... only this time it will be genuine. LOL. What's that Einstein meaning of insanity? Doing the SAME THING over and over expecting different results. Moneyhands, Forts, Horneys......... ALL ex-corpse coordinators who were in charge of the clone factories, ie the corps "training." Sheesh. What a damn, pathetic ploy it was..... and they played right into it. If they had an ounce of critical thinking, then they'd realize that we are speaking the truth here at GSC. They have wasted DECADES trying to mimic the wizard behind the curtain......and smirk at those of us who've engaged in real, honest discussions to undo the burdens and set the captives free. How presumptuous of them to define how I spend my time. Heck, after this post......I will spend the rest of my day doing other things!! They know not of what they speak. And notice, that only that certain "designators" of THEIR group will respond to your questions. What a pathetic, defensive response to your questions. They will not engage, because it amplifies THEIR decades of cult-servitude that does not, and did not, honor God. That's why they put up a shield of defense. Maybe they'll figure it out some day.......or maybe they won't.
  3. 6 points
    Was idly thinking this evening about the internet, perhaps triggered by the disclosures about Facebook. Had the internet been around when many posters here became enmeshed with TWI - they would have checked it out first. Had the net been widely available when I got enmeshed - again, I'd've checked it out first. Today's potential victims, likely mostly young people, have great opportunity to check TWI out first. Maybe they went along to a couple of fellowships with their mates, but decided to check out the organization before they got more involved. Well, well! When I was (in my ignorance) planning to crawl back to TWI, I googled them and the first site up was - GreaseSpot Cafe! And so it still may be, for random people googling TWI, depending on how they phrase their enquiry. BUT, at least with Google, there's lots of other potential or similar sites listed, both after the main site and at the bottom of the first page. TWI's own boring, very static, site appears high in the list - closely followed by a few anti-TWI sites. We who have been here for a long time know how much GSC has helped us, and most of us remain so that we can help others too. What we can't know is how many people have encountered GSC, had a quick look, and zoomed off the other way. They've never been "helped" by having to de-tox here, because they never got "toxed" in the first place. Good for them, I say!
  4. 5 points
    Regarding cognitive dissonance - while in the process of extricating myself from TWI in 1988, I experienced a strange process going on in my mind. I was starting to think original thoughts - thoughts that were contrary to my TWI programmed thoughts. Sometimes I would hear Craig yelling against my thoughts, yelling things I had heard at mealtimes in residence. So I did the thing with the line down the middle of the page. Left side - my thought, right side - TWI rebuttal. Back and forth, back and forth. Like having two brains. As time went by, my own thoughts predominated and the yelling rebuttals receded. Many years later, my brain belongs to me. And TWI is a distant far off strange thing I was in....... the farther back in time it gets, the stranger it seems.
  5. 5 points
    An interesting thing about The Way International is its symbiotic arrangement - where you have two different lifestyles mingling and interacting by the members of the group: 1. There is the Christian lifestyle where one professes a belief in Jesus Christ and follows a religion based on His life and teachings. 2. A destructive cult (please refer to the subcategory of “destructive cult” on Wikipedia) follows a certain agenda to the benefit of the cult leaders and to the detriment of the followers. The destructive cult is also parasitic when paired with a religion. It uses and feeds off the life and energy of the religion...the religion is a means to an end and not the end itself. This symbiotic arrangement is invisible, of course - and often it depends on the individual as far as which one of the two lifestyles…eclipses…dominates…overrides the other. == == == == Folks are usually not attracted to a destructive cult. In my case with TWI, I was attracted to what they said I could learn about Jesus Christ and increasing the power of God in my life – so I enrolled in the PFAL class. If you stick around for a while and aspire to achieve any personal goals or some level of service – I believe you will come to many crossroads in your journey. These crossroads are like an intersection – where the Christian lifestyle and the destructive cult “meet” - where a crucial decision has to be made. Do you take the direction of a Christ-centered-faith or do you follow TWI’s direction which only furthers their agenda? == == == == There are always moral dilemmas in life – and I think the decisions we make and the actions we take reveals so much about our character…and keep in mind how this all plays out on an individual basis and in different ways. I could be torn between wanting to give $100 to someone I know who really needs it – or give that to The Way International who reminds me that is part of my abundant sharing and putting God first. I knew lots of good honest folks when I was in TWI. But I also came across some real a$$holes too. And I don’t mean folks with an irksome personality. I mean folks who were really into lording it over others, of using “for the sake of God’s ministry” as a cloak for excusing their dishonesty in business practices (I was burned a time or two) - where "doing the right thing" to resolve an offense or right a wrong really just amounts to sweeping it under the carpet so as not to give the ministry a bad name.. ...it's applying a fresh coat of white paint to the sepulcher of hypocrisy. == == == == You said “But I have read and heard accounts of others about how controlling and mentally devastating it can be. Just look at what many of you have shared here on GSC.” Yeah, I think that’s the voices of the good honest folks who left TWI. The type of so called Christians who rip others off, who are self-serving as in Matthew 18 and in II Peter 2 do NOT post at Grease Spot… I don’t think it’s a matter of “It takes learning. But if that learning isn't correct, and one has nothing to compare it to except even more incorrect doctrine” as you have stated – I believe it is simpler and deeper than that. It’s really about the type of person you are to begin with. Do you have the moral fiber to do what is right no matter the circumstances, or what your shrinking pocketbook or “evil overlord” is telling you to do? You said: “That was what my feeble attempt was of bringing up Paul. He actually believed he was doing the right thing.” I think Paul was an honest man – even before his conversion – he once said before a religious council he had lived his whole life in good conscience see Acts 23 though he was "before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief" I Timothy 1:13 With religious zeal to spare Philippians 3:6 ...after his conversion he then made decisions based on his Christ-centered-faith. Paul of course did not have the New Testament documents to give him explicit directions on how to live the Christian life; but he did have the living Christ in his heart to first help him re-interpret the Old Testament documents in light of Jesus Christ being its fulfillment...and later inspiring him to write some of the New Testament documents as well. Perhaps if we go by a simple idea – that actions speak louder than words (even the words of the Bible, that some folks like to use to obfuscate the issues) – then what folks actually do reveals a whole lot more about their character – you said: “give them a chance to prove they have had a change of heart and mind” – they’ve had their chance for a long time now - I think the proof is in the pudding.
  6. 5 points
    Started in London in response to fears of locals in Brixton about knife crime. Has since widely expanded, both in remit and location. There are around 300 groups in Britain, some in Trinidad, some in Australia - in fact, in 7 countries including 3 teams in the USA (Chico, California; Bangor and Portland, Maine). In my city, we get heaps of people rushing up to hug us and to thank us for looking out for them. Homeless people know we don't judge, but offer kind words, a hot drink, and blankets etc in cold weather. Sometimes, homeless people tell us about someone (not usually a homeless person) whom they've noticed huddled in a doorway or alley, that they are concerned about. Parents are thankful we get their very drunk kids home safely. Security staff throw drunks out but then call us to ensure the drunks are warm and safe. Our universities have gained a good reputation as being in a safe city. The homosexual community welcomes us and some of them love to talk - they often have had horrendous times in churches. And EVERYONE knows we are volunteers - and volunteer CHRISTIANS. Our actions are a much better way of witnessing than door knocking!!!
  7. 5 points
    For those who had only a brush of involvement with twi, it is understandable that they didn't see behind the mask. On the field, away from twi's headquarters........there were many, MANY good twig coordinators in the mid-to-late 70s. During this time, it was common for faithful followers to hobnob from one twig to another across town. It may be really difficult, now, to realize that the way ministry exuded strong Christian tenets of love, giving and support at the local level. At each twig fellowship.......two or three songs were sung at those fellowships each night that came from Christian denominations: What a friend we have in Jesus Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus My Jesus, I love thee In the garden My Jesus of Blue Galilee I love to tell the story Great is Thy Faithfulness etc. For those who ask, "How could you join a cult?"..........it wasn't like that in the early 70s on the field. There was no monitoring, no mandating which fellowship to attend. If someone across town was teaching hot bible......that's where the action was. At times, some one would not show up for a month.....but was welcomed with loving arms when he/she returned. Nobody joins a cult willingly (wittingly). In every thing that I've learned or experienced, I would say that wierwille pulled his mask off more openly around 1977.....definitely, by 1978. The confrontations became more widespread and intense. A mandate swept thru to replace The Blue Song Book with the brown song book [.....was this because twi was pressured on using copyrighted songs without permission?....]. Some of the high-profile leaders were starting to stand up and challenge wierwille's authoritarian style and doctrine......while others exited, like Peter Wa-de in 1975. In December 1977.......wierwille begins writing his corps letters and laments that corps are exiting. Letters to the way corps Thirty letters........evidence that wierwille was using another tool to shame and guilt the corps. The problem persisted AND ESCALATED........because wierwille did not change course. Corps kept exiting, because they were being manipulated and exploited. Wierwille knew the tactics of incremental steps. Sure........it took YEARS before it became manifestly clear to the general public. And, then......most notably, Christopher C. Geer took to the podium in 1986 to label craig, don, and howard as "the problem" for everyone being off the word. Good Golly.....Miss Molly! What a load of steaming bullschit. What is so freaking crazy is that there are STILL corps today who believe that wierwille was this benevolent, prophesying man of God. And, here at GreaseSpot........the wierwille-defenders refuse to connect the dots. Go back thru the threads......and you'll see that NONE of the staunch wierwille-defenders ever changed his opinion. And, I say "his"......because, as far as I know, every one of them were men. With overwhelming evidence of wierwille's sexual predation........they dismiss it compared to "the greatness of pfal that he taught." We see it on present threads. You can see it on threads 15 years ago. Go back thru the threads.......and read it for yourselves. Wierwille-defenders protect their idol, wierwille. Seems to me...............wierwille-defenders STILL want the mask back on.
  8. 5 points
    When I graduated from the corpse (4th), my assignment was VP of the Way of MI and State WOW Coordinator. I had 20 WOW families in 10 different cities, each pair coordinated by Interim 6th corpse. There were only 6 interim corpse college WOWS, who coordinated College WOW wayhomes at MSU, Uof MI, and Ferris State College, and University of Detroit. Of those 20 WOW families, 2 were in Detroit city, and there were 2 families in the Detroit suburbs of Livonia, Warren, Dearborn, and an interim family corpse couple with a group of 3 twigs in the City. I lived just north of the city in Berkeley, MI. I had an interim corpse WOW meeting for all the interim corpse WOWS once a month in my apt in Berkley. They were fabulous, and we all became very close friends. Word got out, and then all the rest of the corpses in the state wanted to come too. So, after a buncha hoohey from Ken Brown, turd corpse LC, it was opened to any corpse who wanted to attend. At the second one of those monthly meetings, we decided we'd do a weekly SNS for the Detroit Area. We started on Anniversary Sunday, 1976, with about 80 people, including all the WOWS & corpse. At the December meeting, we had over 350, and never looked back! When I first got involved with TWIt, in Long Island and Rye, NY in 1970, when we used to pass the horns at fellowships (not called "Twigs yet!), both Steve Heefner (LC) and Steve Perez each used to say before passing the horn, "If you are in serious need of $, take out whatever will help you get through tonight and tomorrow." We had petty cash for ministry expenses, and ALL the ABS was kept in the local branches and areas until all the bills were paid, our meager "salaries" fluctuated with the ABS, which many times meant that our total weekly salary was $10-20. However, whenever there was an emergent need among the fellowships, ABS was used to pay Dr./Hospital bills, buy food or clothing for homeless folks who came to fellowship, pay for refreshments and food at classes and Sunday night meetings every week, etc. Sometimes we even gave people the $45 "donation" so they could take the class and repay when they got back on their feet. Those decisions were made at the Branch and Area levels. At the end of the month, whatever was left over, we sent to the Limb in Rye. Those amounts rose dramatically from month to month, and the same was done by Heefner for the whole Limb every month. How much we sent was determined by how much came in, and since we emptied the bank accounts every month, that was a lot of moolah, and everybody was happy, except dictor. When he saw the amount of $ coming in from just NY, he wanted it all for himself. So, with the help of none other than Christopher Geer, dictor and coward Allen, fired Heefner and the limb staff he brought with him from CA, during the Advanced Class in Rye in March of 1972. Boob and Doody MoneyHands came in with Gary Frederick to take over the limb, close all branch and area bank accounts in the state other than the Limb, and change over to blue forms and the way tree structure. Perez quit, and all the rest of us fulltimers (2 of us, Ed Goebel and myself) quit and got jobs. The Way of Long Island was broken into just the Nassau and Suffolk branches, Brooklyn/Queens became a separate area, and the Bronx branch was run by a guy named Steffen Emerick. I ran the Bklyn/Queens area, and refused to take any salary. I ran it the way I was taught by Heefner and Perez, and it boomed. I NEVER told Moynihan what I was doing. I just gathered the blue forms and cash from the branches and deposited them all directly into the one Limb account. Since the area was booming, I never got any complaints. So, getting back to MI, when we started the weekly Sunday Area meetings, I had all this abundant sharing to send to the limb, checks and cash. I kept a couple of hundred dollars cash in my apt. and used it as the needs arose among the corpse and their WOWS. For example, the interim family corpse couple had 2 young daughters living in the heart of Detroit the summer after the Cobo riots. Well, mommy got pregnant again, which meant they could not re-enter the corpse. So, to help them out, I paid their medical bills from the delivery and their rent for 3 months, from that ABS stash I kept. Sometimes, WOWS couldn't pay their rent or buy decent food, so i'd pay it from my stash. I even paid for a WOW apprentice corpse to have an abortion when her corpse leader got her pregnant, so she could go into the corpse as planned. To me, THIS was the PUREST and most Christ-like use of ABS for ANYTHING!! I still feel that way. Well.....Bo Reahard was the Trunk guy and the Midwest region guy too. So, he came for a visit in March, and I had him teach at the Detroit SNS. When we got back to my apt, he watched me prepare The ABS to send to the limb. I took out my $200 cash, and zipped up the remaining cash, checks, and coins into a bank pouch with the blue form to take to the limb. Bo wanted to know what the cash was for, and I told him. He asked me if Ken Brown knew about this. I said "No, why? I didn't think i needed to tell him." Well he calls Ken Brown and then rips me a new one for "stealing the ABS"! I called his bullshit, bullshit, and he said he was gonna tell dictor when he got back to HQ. I said, "Good! Tell him to call me and tell me I'm stealing his ABS!" Well, I get a phone call 2 days later from dictor himself! He's got Bo in his office "so he can hear this too". Then he says: "Son, you're right and Bo is full-of-shit like you told him! THAT IS the best use of our ABS and you just go right ahead and keep on doing the right thing, OK?? OK BO??". Then, in harmony comes 2 "yessirs"!! LOL! Then he puts Bo on the phone! Bo says, "You were right. I'm sorry for falsely accusing you. When I hang up, I'm calling Ken Brown to tell him the same thing." I said "thanks Bo, I love ya!" Throughout my entire time in TWIt, at every level of the verkackte Way tree I served in, I did exactly the same thing! And NO ONE, not even Coward or Ding Dong ever said another word to me. There are people still living because of that, who would have been dead, maimed, or arrested. I never used any of those monies for any personal needs or purchases for anybody. I distributed to each as there was need. AND, IT WORKED! i watched dictor and da Forehead take baskets and baskets of ABS from various large meetings and stuff it all in brown shopping bags and take it onto the coach never to be seen again. I watched them splurge on themselves and their corpse girls.....gifts, booze, drugs, bribes, and "contributions to their lockboxes"! I confronted da Forehead several times, and accomplished NOTHING. That one time on the phone with dictor and Bo was the ONLY time I ever talked about it with dictor. So, what Skyrider was doing was absolutely "right-on" as far as dictor and Howard were concerned. Even though it could never have been done under da forehead's reign here in the USA, Skyrider being in Canada and having a pair.....did the right thing. If only there were more who had the guts to do the right thing, which, as usual, meant going against HQ and the board of terrorists, perhaps fewer people would have endured life-altering hurts and pains. We'll never know. Thanks for reading!.........peace.
  9. 4 points
    The title may sound crazy but it’s true. At the time I was introduced to TWI I was in to drugs and alcohol. I was using speed to wake up in the morning and downers chased with whiskey to sleep at night. I grew up in church but I saw no power there. It was more of a social gathering. I was only 23 but the drugs and alcohol were beginning to affect my heart’s rhythm. I knew I needed God in my life but didn’t know where to look. Then there was a knock on my apartment door. There stood two WOW ambassadors who had just moved into my apartment complex. I went to Twig a few times but my roommate and I had a disagreement and we both moved out. I moved back home but eventually was contacted by a Corps member and invited to twig run by MW. MW to me was an amazing teacher. We would go so deep into the Word. This was the first time I’d ever heard anything about Greek words. We talked much about SIT. I wanted that so much and never had to wait until the end of PFAL class. I wanted to go in the Way Corps. I wanted to learn and serve with my whole heart, so to get there I went WOW to Chicago in 79/80. And here is where TWI saved my life. It got me away from all the friends and influences in my life that were killing me and gave me the time to become solidly implanted in the Word. I went in residence with the 12th Corps at Emporia. I loved the experiences and have many good memories of the times with my brothers and sisters. I was assigned was a WOW family coordinator in the Oklahoma City area 81/82. I had no idea of the pain and depression that was coming my way. The first member of my WOW family left the field within two months. Another left 3 months after that. We never ran one PFAL class. I was so beat up than when a member of our twig took an interest to me I fell to the temptation. About the time to return for final year she came up pregnant. I would not go back. It wasn’t right in my heart and mind to do this to someone. I stayed in OKC and eventually married her. We had a beautiful little girl and a son 3 years later. Sadly we divorced not long after he was born. God does have a plan for our lives. There story behind how my present wife and I reconnected is good example of that, but that is a story for a later time. But she had 3 kids and I had my 2 when we married and now we have them and their spouses and 10 grandkids. Most of my kids are involved with missions work, solid in the Word of God. I have been abundantly blessed. I am happy I missed the LCM years at the helm of TWI. I know so many were hurt so badly. Even when I was in the Corps I heard accusations about sexual promiscuity from the leadership although I never witnessed anything. I suppose I was too busy working on the lawnmowers or guarding VPW’s airplane to see any of that. I was an unremarkable Schmoo that helped put money in VPW’s bank account, but to this day I would not want anything I experienced to be any different. The Lord through TWI saved my life , put my feet solidly in the Word of God to the point I have an earned Masters of Divinity, have been a college age pastor and now continue actively in ministry to older folks. This is something I’ve wanted to talk about for 40 years. It has taken the invention of the internet to allow it to happen.
  10. 4 points
    Hi Greasespotters! Allow me to clue you in on a FACT: dictor Paul couldn’t write his way through high school! At his very best, he was capable of writing at an 8th grade level. Remember all those times he talked about his older sisters Sevilla and Lydia, “reading him the riot act” about his horrible school performance?? He bragged about it all the time in a blatant attempt to cover-up the FACT that he was flunking out of high school by the 9th grade. As a matter of fact, the principal had considered not allowing him to return for 10th grade unless his parents could control his behavior. Ya see, dic was known as the town bully, the NK Biff of Back To The Future fame. Everybody else was Marty McFly! He would speed through town on his motorcycle doing tricks and making lots of noise, intimidating pedestrians and being an all around annoying idiot. Sevilla and Lydia were often credited with “straightening me [dictor] out”, thereby preparing him for his earth shatteringly scholarly and revelatory career as the “greatest MOG since The Apostle Paul”! Dic pulled himself together enough to graduate with a low C grade average, and with a lengthy letter of excuses from Dr. Kunst, the local minister at the Evangelical and Reformed Church in NK (and graduate of Lakeland himself), and lots of $$ from papa Adolph, dic managed to slip his way into the world renowned Lakeland Mission House College in Sheboygan, WI! There, he invented the hook shot in basketball, never played professional basketball, secretly married his hometown sweetheart, and barged his way through Mission House like John Blutarski did through Faber College in Animal House! LOL! ALL the early books “written” by dic prior to JCING were transcribed from teachings dic gave on Sunday nights, church study nights in Van Wert, “Spiritual 40 Club” events, and Chimes Hour Youth Caravan broadcasts. ALL OF THEM! I mentioned that dic at his most eloquent with a pen, rose to an average 8th grade level, so writing anything coherent, credible, and scholarly, was absolutely out of the question. So, the great teacher recorded everything he taught and would have Rhoda, then eventually, Donna Randall, Bernita Jess, and Peter J. Wade, along with David Anderson, to transcribe every teaching dic wanted included in his “package” of plagiarized platitudes and “research”. So, once J.E. Stiles, the real author of RTHST, led him into tongues, and dic bought Stiles’ book, “Receiving The Holy Spirit”, and used it to teach his new research on the “gift of tongues”, dic got on a roll. J.E. made it easy. He had already written the book! The next step was taking B.G.’s “The Gifts of the Spirit” class up in Canada. Dictor took it the first time by himself, alone, basically barging his way into the opening session late, while BG was playing his violin before starting. Vic got home and immediately started teaching Dottie, Donnie, Karen, Mal and Jan George, and a few others. Then, the next summer, dic dragged Dotsie and Donnie with him to Canada and they took the class. That was the last time Vic credited BG with ANYTHING in TWI. BG had a big syllabus with tons of scripture references and his definitions of the 9 “gifts”, “keys to walking in the spirit”, the various names of devil spirits, “current” and in the Bible with every single bible record used in dic’s Advanced Class along with the teaching notes Dotsie, and Donnie took. Many parts of that syllabus became the syllabus for “Interpretation of Toungues and Prophecy” (TIP, & INT class) and The Advanced class, plagiarized literally verbatim. Dic was teaching his own “Power For Abundant Living” classes now. Mimeographed limited syllabi and 3 hour sessions. As he was used to since Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, he had everything recorded, and then Rhoda would transcribe all the tapes. Then, she and Dotsie, and Karen would edit for spelling and coherence, and dictor would determine the content. Later, as people with greater technical and intellectual abilities came along, (Donna Randall, Peter Wade, Walter Cummins, David Anderson, Bernita Jess, Ken Klug, John Somerville, Bishop Pillai, Lamsa) more textual and MS evidence was brought to the fore and given the thumbs up or down by dic. Again, everything recorded and transcribed! This is how the orange book, the blue book, the green book, and the PFAL book itself were written. When I first took the class, there were no books! There was the syllabus, Christians Should Be Propsperous in booklet form, Are The Dead Alive Now (also softback), Studies in Human Suffering (on the Book of Job) and 56 separate little pamphlets called “the collaterals”, which were eventually compiled into the first three volumes of the “Studies In Abundant Living” volumes, blue, green, and orange. During my first in-Rez year with the 4th corpse, dic held numerous research nights in the BRC with corpse and the research dept staff, which at that time was Walter Cummins, Donna Randall, Bernita Jess, and dictor as the head cheese and chief revelatory, to work on the final edition of the new JCING. Everybody was allowed to offer their thoughts, opinions, scriptural references, questions, counterpoints. They lasted 3-4 hours with a 1/2 hr break in the middle. They were really fun. But, the final writing was done as it had always been done since Van Wert. That’s why people notice the big difference in all the published works AFTER JCING. JCOP was the first book that was NOT based solely on transcripts of dic’s teachings. As a matter of fact, the body of the contents as well as the vast majority of it were NOT contributed by dictor at all! I can honestly say that the only thing dictor wrote in that book was the dedication! LOL! That’s enough for now. I know there’s a thread somewhere in which Penworks and I basically describe dictor’s “research” and “writing” techniques and prowess. Can’t remember the name of it, or when it was. But, IIRC, it pretty much covers the entire process of “writing” piffle and TWIt books. It might also be called “The Way: Living in Lies”! Or, “How To Plagiarize Your Way To Financial Independence: Building A Fundamentalist Cult”. LOL!................peace y’all!
  11. 4 points
    Hi Taxidev! You posted this: “As I indicated earlier, I have no idea what it's like to live through this level of atrocities. I just pray that you can all become peaceful about it, whether you actually forgive them or not. At least to have peace in yourselves.” Why TY Taxidev. Don’t pray for my peace! In the words of a dear old friend of mine from the 4th Corpse who is no longer living, “I got Peace like a river! Like a river baby!” You sound like one of the 2 responders you quoted on an earlier post. LOL! I was “peaceful about it” the instant I turned off of wierwille road onto Highway 29 and got the hell outta there on December 14, 1986! And, my peace has grown greater DAILY since then regardless of what “trials and tribulations” I may have undergone since that day. That is true partly because, DAILY I KNOW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT, that I did the “rightest” thing I ever did in my life for Jesus Christ. The ones you need to pray for are the anti-Christ pimps, whose “virtues” you seem to extol. First, pray they stop LYING and genuinely REPENT before God, Jesus Christ, and the Church, AFTER they have apologized to and sought forgiveness from their VICTIMS. VICTIMS!! Victims of TWIt “clergy”! Do YOU get that? Or, are you too busy praying for my peacefulness? I’LL FORGIVE THEM WHEN THEY HONESTLY REPENT! THEY HAVE YET TO DO SO! Do you get that Taxidev?? This has never been about vindictiveness Taxidev. This has ALWAYS been about JUSTICE! God’s justice, and HE IS THE GOD OF JUSTICE! I just pray that YOU can see beyond their seared consciences and the fair words and fancy speeches they dump all over those they lie in wait to deceive, whether YOU actually believe them or not. At least to understand GOD’S JUSTICE! Maybe that will open YOUR eyes to their habitual hubris, lies, and rule of injustice? At least to have a sense of what God’s Justice means. We’ll see, Taxidev.....we’ll see. Meanwhile, please don’t waste any more of your prayer time for me. I got peace like a river baby!!!..................peace.
  12. 4 points
    Yeah.............totally predictable. Self-appointed sleaze.........that want to sit on an elevated perch and rule over others. They just quit pimping for the twit-cult....and wanted to start their own action, in another neighborhood. Good riddance. That's why that R&R thread is SO, DAMN INSTRUCTIVE........."meet the new boss, same as the old boss." LOL
  13. 4 points
    A bit off topic now, given the (predictable) way this thread has gone, but I'm out tonight, beating the feet on the streets from about 9.30pm to about 3.30am. You folks here will easily be awake in those hours, given the time differences. So, if you think of it, please pray for -- the safety of our team and city (and the other teams out within the UK); the wisdom for us to deal with whatever we encounter; and for our tongues to speak words of peace and blessing to those we encounter. We as a team know we'll have a good time in each others' company.
  14. 4 points
    AOS has to be one of the great highlights of TWI’s hypocrisy...the production was to reveal the wiles of the devil and how a believer can be strong and stand up against all the deceptions and temptations...meanwhile the “star of the show” believer boy (craig) is boinking the “wrong seed” chick...oh no, Obi-Wan we lost another to the dark side!
  15. 4 points
    Hey Mike: Don’t flatter yourself with your fantasy that I am your “opponent” in some grand “debate”. I am NOT your opponent. I feel deep sorrow and pity for you, not opposition. I have already told you, again, way back on page 11, that trying to engage you in a serious discussion about anything TWIt’n’Dic is like administering medicine to the dead. ALL your “research”, “manifestos”, “statements”, “theses”, “TVTs”, “discussions” of 40-50 years ago, “learning” from Popular Science and Popular Mechanics, lie detector “experts”, quotes from “old grads”, your “theories” (e.g. “the pure evil theory” etc.), transcripts from 53 year old SNS tapes, quotes from piffle, elena’s post-sex book about dictor paul and his drunken bullshit hustle to get into her hippie underpants, revisionist wierwille-worshipping tripe, revisionist B.G., Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger stohrees, quotes from various syllabi and lullabies, and overt lying, dealing one unicorn fantasy after another from your never ending shue of bullshit, is totally self-absorbed and IRRATIONAL. Irrational, as in illogical, unreasonable, insane. I for one, really wish the good-hearted GSCers here trying to dialogue reasonably with you would simply stop doing so. Go down to Doctrinal and pontificate your “ancient”, “overlooked” garbage there. No one should bother answering you any where else, as it leads to an incredible waste of byte-space which YOU don’t pay for! The members and Paw pay for it. Stop wasting our money and bytespace outside of doctrinal. I implore my fellow GSCers to refrain from posting to Mike or responding to him anywhere but in the Doctrinal Forums. Then, folks who really want to keep dealing with Mike’s illnesses publicly know exactly where to find him, newbies don’t have to read his garbage in Open, Way Int’l, or Offshoots Forums, and we need only see it if we choose to. Saves everyone a helluva lot of time and agita! So Mike......this will be THE last post from me to or about YOU anywhere at the GSC outside of Doctrinal Forums. I’m old enough to spot irrational bullshit, psychiatric pathologies, and insane behavior, to know I’ve had my fill of them for this lifetime. This is no ad hominem attack Mikey. This is simply a fact-filled, reasonable assessment of your mental state as evidenced by your rambling, nearly incoherent “essays”, along with your erratic and annoying posting behavior. You’re a gentle soul. Thanks for keeping yourself in Doctrinal. Happy Resurrection Day. See ya in Doctrinal only. No more “BeHappy troops” up here. Bye now.
  16. 4 points
    Mike, what are you talking about?? I think there is a lot of "good," here at the GSC. For example, if you go back, and read the threads, many people have revealed the real TWI, not the one in your imagination. Ask Sky, and DWBH. They have written extensively about TWI, under VPW, and LCM. Also, Twinky, and T-Bone, have written about their time in The Corps. Rocky, also has written about his experiences in Way World. I find most of the people who come here, speak the truth about TWI, as honestly as possible. I know I do. I had some good experiences in TWI, and some unpleasant ones. What people here discourage is Bullsheet; people have gently, and sometimes, not so gently, let me know when I am off the mark. I think most of the people who post here, are kind, patient souls, but they can "separate truth from error," in a nanosecond. If you don't want to read negative posts, be more circumspect in what you post.
  17. 4 points
    Thanks DWBH.... Yes, TWIt and its offshoots hate this site. None of them have a site where open thought, discussion and questions are in public view. And lately, here at GSC......there has been many new posters coming to this site. Some are second generation kids who were raised in twi and are now grappling with the aftermath of this evolving cult that has consumed their wayfaring parents and relatives. Adding to this complexity are the dozens upon dozens of offshoots with their books and classes claiming that THEY hold the spiritual mantle of truth. Stop the merry-go-round.........and let's take a walk. In the late 60's, several factors emerged that contributed to the rise of cult leaders and those attracted to cults (lifestyle and doctrine). The socio-dynamic of church involvement was changing rapidly. The counterculture of the 60s was a diaspora into the '70s. Technology was advancing......pfal filmed on 16mm, then VHS-format Displaced youth.......searching for meaning, acceptance, belonging Note: One generation of displaced youth propelled twi forward to the cult that it is today. Wierwille cut ties with his Van Wert Church in 1957.......to follow in the steps of many elders, and contemporaries, who traveled across the country teaching at retreats and church-related seminars. Some of the men on this list and the year that wierwille encountered them: E. Stanley Jones (1944), Rufus Moseley (1946), Perry Hayden (1946), Glenn Clark (1948), J.E. Stiles (1951), Starr Daily (1952), and B.G. Leonard (1953). For thirteen (13) years, wierwille was taking notes and gleaning from their ministries......all while he was on Van Wert Church payroll. And, it seems apparent........that Leonard's foundational class in 1953 is what spurred the impetus of wierwille to, finally, break from the denominational structure. From 1958-1967, wierwille taught live pfal classes and Mal George helped teach a handful of them. Going into their tenth year........and the results were miniscule. Nearly 80% of students from all those classes never committed to The Way, Inc. The strategy of reaching church-people "with the word" was a bust......wierwille's independent undertaking was barely paying the bills. And, the BRC was a non-descript rural building with no church bells or steeple........and very few people. So, wierwille threw caution to the wind in 1967.......and stared into intense, glaring lights to teach and film a 36-hour class. Strapped for cash, time and "borrowed" furniture, wierwille was under immense pressure to get this class filmed in an allotted time frame. Crazy as all this was......the confluence of technology, the counterculture hippie movement, and displaced youth provided a wave of interest, excitement and involvement to wierwille's rogue underpinnings. Youth leaders and guitar singers bridged the gap between homiletics and hippies........and the displaced youth soon found a place in an Ohio commune. Note: One generation of youth leaders and guitar singers bridged the gap between homiletics, hippies and holy spirit. Wierwille NEEDED the youth far more than they needed him or his teachings. He exploited their involvement and their vulnerabilities. Many young leaders came and left.......but their zealous involvement and connections brought waves upon waves of other displaced youth longing for belonging. And, even though the zero corps was shut down....... those corps from 1-5 went forward with ten years of solid commitment......AND THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING. In their zeal, WOWs beget more WOWs......and corps beget more corps. The *youth factor* was the driving force of the movement.......not wierwille. And, those early years (1968-1974) at headquarters would infiltrate the minds of scores upon scores of corps grads to follow. The displaced youth had found their "family".......and a place to call home. As headquarters grew into a full-fledged compound......it became self-contained. You didn't need to go anywhere, for anything.......except beer and wine. Heck, even George Jess wine was known to be available to a select few. Hardly needed to leave grounds...... Three square meals a day...... Snack shop......and grilled burgers after meetings In-house entertainment.........indoor/outdoor, bands, dancing, fun Personal services.........haircuts, laundry, taxes, dentist at Indiana Campus Car services.......help with repairs / barter services Who needed much money?........many lived on-grounds and walked to work Note: One generation stayed so long......that they started having babies. Corps were graduating year after year and getting married. By 1976, a second generation of "cult-babies" are being pushed around in strollers. No, it wasn't many at first.......but six years later, by 1982.......babies and strollers were everywhere at corps week and roa. And, why not......the youth had "found a home." The displaced youth had moved from transition and were transferring these perceptions and identities to this pseudo-family. Wierwille addressed aspects of "this place is your home" on many a night owl. I knew many who considered Mrs. Wierwille as the mother that they never had, or knew. Others, whose father or mother died prematurely, took refuge in this "Uncle Harry Nostalgia" and was furthered when the Corps Chalet was being built.......that corps could stay for a couple days whenever they were passing by. Not only the commune lifestyle, but the doctrine.........I remember several times when wierwille taught about ownership versus stewardship. Why do you need to OWN things?.....wierwille claimed. It only slows you down, burdens you with the world. It's far better to have access of the ministry's stuff, than to own something yourself. Here you get to enjoy the way woods, the house of his healing presence, and all......without the expense and maintenance of it. All those years of evolving rhetoric......1) Burn the Ballast, 2) Burn the Chaff, to 3) Uncle Harry Day. Get rid of anything that is holding you back.......record albums, yearbooks, instruments, trinkets/jewelry, worldly books, family heirlooms and keepsakes, etc. Each year, around March 17th..... the communal fire at headquarters would roar as we rationalized the process and felt heavy guilt to obey. The manufactured doctrine and lifestyle was set ablaze......until 1985, when the death of the man and his fire ceased. What started out as a search for meaning, acceptance and belonging..........yielded years of detours, dead-ends and blind alleys. So, yeah........there's a lot to unpack from these cult travels. .
  18. 4 points
    Terrific posts Skyrider and T-bone! Thank you both for such self-reflective insight into the myriad, varied, yet quite profound, psycho-emotional factors which caused so many of the idealistic youth of the 60s to be prime “cult bait”. I was among them as were you, and all of those who spent any amount of time getting gobbled up by all the various “spiritual growth” programs offered by the cult. The doctrine they manufactured was certainly “self-supporting, self-propagating, and self-governing”, especially adept at manufacturing “spiritual needs” which only their manufactured doctrine could meet. Then, add in the guilt motivation of “Gawd has no hands but our hands blah blah blah yada yada yada in the name of Jesus Christ amen, with a little “what has this ministry cost YOU? How much have YOU given to God? Christ was willing to die! Are YOU??”, and, of course, a lot of fear of “not measuring up” to whatever shifting “spiritual priorities” were manufactured to maintain the ever-changing standards of “the prorgram(ming)”, moving the goal posts of that “spiritual maturity” which gawd required of his “douloi”, further and further away, requiring more and more $$ and “training” for never-ending programs living only on a “needs basis”. Not a cult, eh?? LOL! The “Art” of sociopathic, malignant, narcissistic behavior disorders ALWAYS includes “charming” and “engagingly manipulative” personality traits in those so afflicted. Such behavior is not only diagnostic, but also predictive of future pathological behavior as the patient progressively decompensates while the disease progresses, and goes untreated. This hindsight is 20/20 though. It is the result of my post-cult Nursing education and 25 years of practice. Remember the old adage, “ if only I knew now what I knew then, I woulda, shoulda, coulda.....”? I have learned through life experience that such thinking is self-defeating. It deals with “what IF” instead of “what IS”. That sabotages any productive self-reflection while rationalizing continued behavioral inaction as a “frustrating waste of time”. That inaction and rationalization freezes your identity at whatever stage you are willing to accept in order to relieve the frustration. Usually, that locks folks into the identity formation stage of human development. Normally, that stage occurs during the ages of 21-32. How old were YOU at the height of your TWIt involvement? In the Corpse? Way Home? WOW VET?Bet it was somewhere between age 18-32, unless you had a kid or 2. There are as many psychoemotional factors contributing to our being “cult bait” as there are individuals who unwittingly became cultists. IMO, posts such as Skyrider and T-bone have posted here, are the greatest weapons we here at the GSC have in our arsenal of FACTS and eyewitness accounts from honest, altruistic, and concerned ex-wayfers, of the other side of the TWIt stohree. TWIt and it’s offshoots hate this site because it exposes the purulent underbellies of each and all of their cults. The Truth only hurts those who stand against it! Selah...........peace.
  19. 4 points
    And on the topic of whether or not there has been manned (and womanned) space flight, moon landings, Mars rover landings, exploration of distant planets and other wondrous things, I disagree with your entire concept that NASA has been staging huge deceptions. Further, I find your claims in that regard so absurd that I have no intention of addressing the minutia. Your inference, "too much good, hard evidence... etc." Only reflects how you see the situation and bears no relation to how I view any of it.
  20. 4 points
    Great posts, Skyrider and ChockFull ! I know it’s been said – and my common sense would agree – no one ever knowingly joins a cult… I got involved in ’74, and like you said it was a sweet time of a simple Christian lifestyle for me… what might be a good metaphor for my 12 years of involvement with TWI is the boiling frog fable ...Early on I was not aware of the growing threat behind the Christian mask…but as time went on – the cult’s subtle powers of manipulation and exploitation extended... or should I say intruded further and further into my life…and it wasn’t until I started questioning things in ’86 that I began to suspect there might be a mask - - that something was covering the real problem or problems. I am so thankful there’s a place like Grease Spot - where unmasking a cult is a group effort !
  21. 4 points
    I do not see that this says, Love a book (not even a bible) - not love PFAL. I do see that it requires some practical application, otherwise, how else will you love your neighbour? By reading the house number on the letter box? How do you love yourself? Is it by reading your diary? Or is it by being kind to yourself, and trying to understand your own strengths, weaknesses, vulnerabilities, and physical needs. Do you seek warm clothes and a roof over your head, in bad weather? Help someone less fortunate. Do you enjoy sufficient food every week? Help someone who has less. Do you get help or companionship at your "low times"? Come alongside someone who needs that help or companionship. Put the book down, Mike, and leave the internet alone. Take a couple of months off and spend that time engaging in a meaningful way with the people around you.
  22. 4 points
    Damn straight, DWBH......................you rock !! THAT is what leadership looks like......and should have been taught and detailed in corps training. LOVE in all of its manifestations helping others.......caring for the weak and vulnerable, ministering to the wounded souls, fighting against those who ravage the flock, leading them to "still waters and green pastures," replenishing their souls with righteous nutrition, etc. etc. In essence, to follow in the steps of Jesus Christ, the Great Shepherd. In Canada, from March 1984 - April 1987.........my wife and I embraced our duties of ministering/oversight of the Canadian brethren with every fiber of our beings. We deemed it an honor and privilege of a lifetime to serve them. The only reason that our tenure was 3 years......was because our work visas had expired and the Canadian government officials would not extend them. The country coordinators before us were Americans, Danny and Rhonda Stephenson, [3 years]........and then, we had 3 years. The visa/immigration/custom officers terminated our visa status at the end of March 1987.........and then, Randy and Diane Ginn [Canadian birthright citizen] assumed the duties. Here at GreaseSpot Café.........we document the multi-layered fabric of micro-management, legalism and abuse on countless threads. BUT..........THERE WAS A TIME AND PLACE when those things were not so. Canada, for a number of years, was young, vibrant, sharing, loving........without the tentacles of spiritual overlords and mandates. Each year, we had a "Western Canadian Advance" and "Eastern Canadian Advance" that were like a 3-day family gathering of hugs, fun, laughter, prayer/healing, outdoor games, short vibrant evening teachings, and capped the Saturday night with a two-hour songs/talent/skit night. Nearly everyone got involved......and lots of us stayed up till 2am hanging out together, because we just didn't want to go to bed. Love saturated these wonderful times. We had corps and believers in Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg, Windsor, London, Toronto, Mississauga, Peterborough, Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec City and other small hamlets ......most notably around Ontario. During our tenure, the outreach and ABS grew near 300%.........as we stayed valiant for the truth. In confidence, I had many corps and believers tell me that our "Canadian Advances" were far superior to the rock of ages in ohio.
  23. 4 points
    Dodge. Distract. Challenge right back. But never admit an error is an error. That is a fundamentally dishonest tactic unworthy of the label "Christian." Wierwille's books are god-breathed, except the ones written by committee, regardless of the fact that he himself took personal responsibility for the final product. We've reached the point, I think, where identifying you as "dishonest to the core" is not "namecalling" but a fair and objective description of your conduct on this board. You'e not an honest debater, and that makes discussion with you a profit to no one.
  24. 4 points
    One thing I've noticed is that a decade and more ago, Mike made it very clear that his method of communicating would be steeped in a dishonest approach that simply refused to acknowledge the possibility that he was wrong about something. Period. His methods have not changed one bit. They are fundamentally dishonest and inconsistent with a desire to engage in an honest discussion. Unfortunately, there is no GSC rule against being so utterly full of crap that flies cannot bear the stench.
  25. 4 points
    Can anyone tell me dictor paul's scriptural position on the word "Covfefe"? What is the true meaning of that word?? Mike's textual criticism, and use of the basic dictor "keys to research", is as made up as "Covfefe" and equally as meaningful. When one decides that he/she is indisputably right based on words, phrases, and cliches which are self-invented, and self-defined, and unintelligible to anyone else in the real world, that one would be accurately diagnosed as "delusional", or "schizoaffectively dysfunctional". NO argument is considered by such self-deluded totalist "thought". You are simply arguing semantics with a madman who lives in his own reality and dreams he has insight into a world-shattering "revelation" entirely of his own making and definition. Again, arguing with such disjointed, delusional, self-defined illogic and garbage-in/garbage-out incoherence, is like "administering medicine to the dead". As long as there is a response, Mike will continue to drag out every last ounce of his insane self-delusion, make up new words and phrases with meanings known only to Mike and a dead drunk serial rapist and Nazi rotting in some waterlogged shrine in OH. That is why I try not to post on any thread Mike craps on. However, sometimes his insane diatribe and abject bullshit become unbearable to the point of comment. By now, we should ALL know better than to try and engage Mike in rational, factual, non-delusional dialogue regarding ANYTHING of seriousness or social value. At least we give this whacko an audience. Hopefully, that will help avoid a true psychotic break so folks in San Diego won't have to deal with yet another lunatic scaring their city. Okay! Nuff said by me. Mike, I'm thankful you are not a violent or maleficent man. But, your insanity becomes more annoying with every self-absorbed, self-deluded paragraph you post here. Carry on as you must. Hopefully, the rest of us will tire of your foolishness and let you babble in the corner somewhere behind the counter. Blabber on MacDuff!.......peace.