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  1. Hello! I was in Ohio for most of my life, raised by my two parents who joined the way in the 70's. I was a somewhat enthusiastic "believer" until my early 20s and then I dove in - went Way Disciple after I graduated college then moved in with ministers in Syracuse, New York. I left everything behind and I was so worried that I wouldn't be okay without "God's protection." But I have to say, my life is improving. I have a master's degree, a great job, a great car, and will soon co-own a home. None of that would have been possible if I was still giving away 10%+ of my income and a
    5 points
  2. As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this). Consider this, Vern: Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to." In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way? This is just my opi
    5 points
  3. I like to think I wouldn't have gotten involved, either. Truth is, though, it was 50 years ago. I'm not the same person now that I was then. Don't beat yourself up over decisions you made so long ago.
    4 points
  4. vpw was determined to make a profit on everything twi- related. If it cost something, he'd try to get it free, or try to get it on the cheap if that was impossible. When he filmed the pfal class, he "bought" the desk for the set, then returned it for a refund, lying and claiming something was wrong to get a refund. Run a class? It's always at someone's home, so we pay no rent, and twi peons supply all refreshments out-of-pocket. All books were charged full retail despite having been printed and bound in-house, all audio tapes were made of a truly inferior quality, a level you couldn't
    4 points
  5. VPW said it. That settles it. I don't believe it.
    4 points
  6. And he says all that with a great big smile on his face, and something of a chuckle in his voice. Love the way he says, TWI wants to help people become debt-free. I bet they have no idea of preparing a proper budget (a genuine budget to help a needy family that can hardly feed and clothe the kids), making arrangements with creditors for full or partial repayment on terms, what state or other benefits the people might be entitled to; and getting effective help from charities, power companies and other like organisations. I have helped hundreds of people become debt-free and I love d
    4 points
  7. Been there and done that. It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online. And then a couple years after that before I realized God wasn't going to "life his protection" from my life if I did. The first time I read a thread from Greasespot was when I saw a print out of it on Rosalie's desk while I was cleaning. I wasn't prying, just dusting around things. But I do remember that moment very well. At that point I was already questioning the things I saw at HQ, and it struck me as odd that the woman in charge of the ministry
    4 points
  8. @Lifted Up My post in this thread is the first time I've ever let the universe know about what happened. I was in FC 18 if anyone was there or knows anyone from that time. I know the exact person who did it and her entire family is still strongly in TWI as far as I know. "Saying" those words in an internet forum to complete strangers made me reach out to my brother who is younger than me and I told him about it. All he said was he knew I've been dealt bad cards my whole life and didn't even want to talk about it. I am 6 months shy of 40 and haven't cried this much in decades, or ever
    4 points
  9. There is a small number of survivors still alive, and some have written books. Others have died in the last decade or two. There's talk of 6 million people of Jewish extraction. There are also millions more of other groups: gypsies, darker skinned people, homosexuals, disabled people - and intellectuals. Some estimate these others at about 4 million; they're often completely overlooked. Even now, the true numbers murdered by the regime are unknown. For this reason, I'm very alarmed when any bunch of people start demonizing any other group. It starts somewhere. Let's demonize ..
    4 points
  10. I recently rediscovered this site and have spent hours and hours reading your posts and your stories. Despite how many years have gone by since you wrote them and since I have been out of twi, I have been moved to tears, outrage, gratitude and sometimes laughter. Although we may not know each other personally, I feel a profound connection with you from our shared experience in twi. Thank you so much for keeping this site going all this time. My brief history with twi: started attending twig in 1973 Fairfax, CA and first took PFAL at a live class (!) at Shaver Lake, CA that summer. I was 1
    3 points
  11. Their retirement accounts, of course!
    3 points
  12. One of the most liberating things when I left TWI was the realization the Sh1t Happens.
    3 points
  13. Hi all! Wow what a trip this is here. I was marked and avoided in 1995. How many people get to say they were shunned? I became involved in 84 Little Rock AFB Ar. Was a WOW Amb and advance class survivor. They started to get a bug up their butts when I decided all the dead end jobs were dead end and wanted to go to college. The twisted justification on the Ways part was how dare I rely on education and advancement to supply my needs. Also Martindale was becoming a person who seemed far from Christ like. There was already strike one from moving to go to school.My questioning the crap coming out
    3 points
  14. After I left TWI, I realized my pre-TWI life was just as valid as during TWI. As posted above, we were taught to disavow our previous life as "old man" etc. i came to see my life a single thread, not a before and after. I reclaimed my previous life. I made a pie chart of my life with time in TWI highlighted. It's about a fifth of the pie and this point. As time goes by, the TWI section gets smaller and smaller....
    3 points
  15. Annio, very interesting topic. Thanks for posting. I just wanted to add my two cents: When I was young, and insecure, I needed a lot of attention. I think for some kids, attention is a form of security; thus it equals love. However, my mother never understood this; she was very self-absorbed. Throughout, my childhood, I felt unloved, and because of it, I was a very insecure, and unhappy person. However, one day, I realized God loves me. What a profound impact that had on me!! God, Almighty, the Creator of Heaven, and Earth, loves me. Why, I will never know; I am nothing special. I'm
    3 points
  16. That's entirely possible. However, he shows so many signs of psychopathic/sociopathic behaviour that I tend to think that his response was because we weren't people to him, we were RESOURCES. So, when we thought for ourselves and dared to disagree with him, he took that personally because he was entitled to do all our thinking for us.
    3 points
  17. Being separated physically by many miles from our families presents it’s challenges. On our minds quite often is how they are doing, what’s the latest movie they watched, how is life with the new boy friend, did they gat the package you sent? Endless little things that make our hearts grow fonder each day. When I was in the Navy in Viet Nam, without a doubt, mail call was the high light of our day. We could not wait for a letter from home or a package containing cookies or candy. A picture of our family or buddies was the absolute greatest thing. Finding out the grandparents were doing j
    3 points
  18. Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980? Of course.....twi's practices have been self-serving.....and only self-serving......for a long, long time. It didn't have to end this way (spiraling down to its doom). It seems to me, those years 1977-1979 were ripe with outreach and "Word in Culture." With musical groups and outreach......some professional athletes from the NFL and tennis were taking pfal. A professional bull-riding clow
    3 points
  19. That's why it's good to hear alternate points of view- sometimes what you don't see is more important than what you DO. In regards to the GSC: A) the regulars who post here spend a few minutes a week here. (Any spending more are socializing and that's not twi-related.) B) The vast majority of people who've posted here have moved on with their lives and don't even check in here any more. Some places consider that bad for the place. However, since the GSC is partly about helping people move on and prosper after surviving twi, we consider them SUCCESS STORIES. They moved on an
    3 points
  20. Blaming devil spirits for everything was like the Easy Button in Way World. Got cancer?...devil spirits. Depression?... devil spirits. Substance abuse?...devil spirits. . And if you don't understand something... just S.I.T. more. This need for easy answers was probably a big draw for people who were searching for meaning, myself included. But guess what, life is complex and sometimes the answers are complicated. Other times, there simply aren't any answers. Life is an endless search for answers but sometimes that's what makes the journey so exciting and rewarding. Never stop searching and que
    3 points
  21. This is not surprising. At age 80.....I would imagine that Rosalie is tired, truly tired, of keeping up daily pretenses. And, looking in her mirror.....it was time to face the reality that her aged body is not camera-ready without a lot of constant work. The daily grind of details.....who quit, who exited, and who is going to go in and do damage control. Hundreds of corps have exited since 2005. And, that 2017 exodus took a swath of "big-names" (moynihans, forts, horneys, magnellis, fredericks, etc.) many who'd been involved since the early 70s. Even for Rosa-lie.....that had to
    3 points
  22. Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time, or season. We are to do as Jesus did, in heart, soul, mind, and strength. That means: loving and obeying God. And then, loving our neighbours (=those around us, those we come into contact with). It doesn't mean: following all the ritual that Jesus followed, and much of which he poo-poo'd.
    3 points
  23. Well, I've been thinking about that... and how easily people get conned (in general) these days. So I found an intriguing essay about classic literature that contrasts with VP quite well. https://medium.com/@spencerbaum/3-reasons-why-you-should-read-more-classic-literature-in-2019-e762cb5c910c Call me Ishmael. The famous opening sentence of Moby Dick, so short and provocative, is welcoming and familiar to the 21st century reader, who is accustomed to snappy prose with short sentences and lots of white space. A few sentences later in Melville’s masterpiece we get
    3 points
  24. "The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearly a commandment in God's word) he gets a hiding. Wait till you face Jesus Christ- and your face will turn pale for rejecting what is clearly a commandment of God. I have showed you in so many ways why it's an immutable commandment of God- and scriptures, left, right and centre- I dont have any hiddent agenda unlike TWI. But if you want to analyse yourself not to do God's sabbath keeping c
    3 points
  25. Brandeis made his famous statement that “sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants” in a 1913 Harper’s Weekly article, entitled “What Publicity Can Do.” But it was an image that had been in his mind for decades. Twenty years earlier, in a letter to his fiance, Brandeis had expressed an interest in writing a “a sort of companion piece” to his influential article on “The Right to Privacy,” but this time he would focus on “The Duty of Publicity.” He had been thinking, he wrote, “about the wickedness of people shielding wrongdoers & passing them off (or at least allowing them to pass th
    2 points
  26. Your entire post/comment resonates with me. I believe I've said the same thing about the authoritarian structure in different words, a number of times over the last twenty years. I saw it as the accountability in the social structure was bass-ackward in twi. In Acts, the elders held themselves accountable to the people who supported them. IMO, the entire Christian church, at least in the Western world, looks at authority in such a way that the elders were considered "leaders" who must be followed. That's dangerous stuff all around. And I believe that's why sexual abuse is pervasive regard
    2 points
  27. I was 19 years old driving back to Houston from Greenville, SC WOW year in 1979. I was alone. I was 19. I was driving about 1,000 miles. I was not afraid. WTF! Anyway.... As I got close to Mobile, AL I just knew that I needed to pull off the freeway. I didn't have a good reason but I just had to do it. So I pulled off and right in front of my was a guy with a ROA shirt on just like the one I was wearing. I picked him up and took him to his parents house in Hattisburg, MS. They fed me, gave me an amazingly comfortable bed to sleep in and filled up my car with gas while I was asleep. B
    2 points
  28. Hi Annio… …what a courageous and honest post !!! …somehow I missed this thread - so I just wanted to add my 2 cents now… You got me thinking about a few of ways that a double standard played out in TWI. A double standard is a set of principles that applies differently and usually more rigorously to one group of people than to another group. One aspect of the double standard in TWI is the misogynistic tendencies as you mentioned. In the bigger picture as we all know, this is something not just confined to TWI – but at least in the outside world there have been some br
    2 points
  29. You know, Allan, that any "good stuff" that they taught, was because it was pinched from genuine God-loving Christians. Besides that, VPW had "itching ears" and grabbed other bits and pieces from get-rich-quick merchants, and from "spiritualists" and mediums. All jumbled up together to become their version of Christianity. And whatever TWI teaches, whether originally Godly or not, is corrupted by filthy and abusive practices.
    2 points
  30. Hi ProbablyAnAtheist, I doubt if anything I’d say could be relevant to you now since I got involved with TWI some 46 years ago (1974) - except for some similar aspects you described in your relationship…I was raised Roman Catholic, by late teens, no longer practicing, I met a young girl who was in TWI, we dated for a while, I got much more involved than she did, some 12 years later (1986) started to realize how corrupt it was (as you alluded to) and left, began reevaluating stuff, joined Grease Spot in 2006 – which expanded my horizons on a lot of things…yada yada yada…and now I think I’m
    2 points
  31. Making phone contact might be good; if it gets too edgy, you can always make the excuse that there's somebody at the door or some such. If you really were friends before, then it could work out well. If they've still got links with C Geer, or G Wrenn, I'd be somewhat wary. There's a thread about Wrenn somewhere here; and plenty of words about Geer. I reconnected with my Corps sister after many years; we had a good time together and remain friends. Most of 'em I wouldn't particularly want to hang out with again. On the other hand, I hooked up initially with some ex-Wayfers and i
    2 points
  32. Hey @AC04Ohio! My husband and I both grew up in TWI and left 3 years ago at ages 26 and 28 when we became Christians. We were just talking about how thankful we are that we left TWI for actual Christianity, and that we’ve pursued stable careers in the tech industry. Welcome to the other side! The journey out can be a bit messy, so let us know if you need any support.
    2 points
  33. Happy Christmas, people! Yes, we are allowed to say that! (Season's greetings, if you prefer.) Have a joyful Christmas, careful New Year (especially if driving), and a very much better 2021.
    2 points
  34. That's a good question, and an original question. So I did a little digging. Here's what we have: The thread "VP's visit to India" discusses this. https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/23050-vps-visit-to-india/page/2/ "When wierwille went to India......he was propped in front of church groups, the Hindu convention, dignitaries by Dr. I.S. Williams. It was Williams who OPENED all the doors for wierwille to speak. And, when wierwille left India he "designated" Williams to continue to oversee his (vp's) work.....of which, Williams did NOT accept."
    2 points
  35. TLB, good for you honey!! Love is love; gay or straight.
    2 points
  36. First off, if you're trying to get someone to settle their differences with somebody else, shouldn't you try to get them to confront their demons, face-to-face? [This site is more about all the survivors OF those who held the microphone. Those who held the microphone have had plenty of chances to speak up. The GSC gave/gives a voice to those whose voice was stolen. However, the former and present leaders, as well as former and current members, are welcome to post here. People are free to use their own names as well as pseudonyms. A few of them HAVE posted here under pseudonyms.
    2 points
  37. Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works. There's this interesting notion. It persists among ex-twi, and, apparently, NOBODY ELSE. This notion is- it is WORSE to expose vpw, lcm, JAL, etc as rapists or embezzlers or simonists than it was for any of them to actually BE a rapist, embezzler, or simonist. The idea is that God is less pleased at whisle-blowers than at felons who still victimize His people. it's a bizarre idea. Verses like II Timothy 4:14 make it obvious- as if one has to actually be told it's obvious.
    2 points
  38. Thank you Pawtucket. I just want to say I wish everyone here on Grease spot cafe all the best. I know that I wouldn't be where I am today had I not found this site. Thank you for being there. I don't know if whether I would be in a better place right now had it not been for Grease spot cafe. I really don't. Anyway, Happy Labor Day all. I thank God that our country is a free democracy with unalienable rights.
    2 points
  39. This just in: Nana has changed course and is now headed for the local bingo hall.
    2 points
  40. Yo - sign me up ! Here's my payment for the class.
    2 points
  41. THIS. THIS. This is why I could not leave the group for so long. 1. My family went into the FC when I was just over the age limit. So, my entire family left me behind. - RELATIONSHIP WEAKENED 2. Abandoned, I had nowhere else to go, so I obeyed my parents and went WOW so that I could have some kind of support around me. WOW became my family. FAMILY RELATIONSHIP REPLACED BY TWI 3. I stayed in Las Vegas with some of the WOWs on my team afterwards - where else would I go? My family was still in FC for another 2 or 3 years. FAMILY EVEN MORE WEAKENED 4. Family was
    2 points
  42. She used to have L@hn L!nder print them out for her because for years she refused to have a computer in her office or use one at all. I started posting here to expose the things twi wants to hide. However, i always took satisfaction knowing she was reading along.
    2 points
  43. I wanted to hear more and think through a good response to what is going on before I posted something here about whose calling the shots in the Way, but this is what I think is going on: Vern's current role in the Way is similar to that of Gorbachev's in the Soviet Union. The story starts with the state of the Way in the 2000's: its still significant assets have been depreciating, and it shows. TWI has been destroying buildings and selling property that it doesn't have the resources to maintain. The Way had been creeping along, but its stagnation wasn't of any critical concern, until
    2 points
  44. For those arriving late, this was a quote from MRS WIERWILLE, at vpw's FUNERAL.
    2 points
  45. "Twinky said..."? No, no, no, no, no! Vern said! And Twinky says: "Yeah, riiiight...!" "Cease to be part of the problem"??? (They are the problem!") Be teachable"? (Don't make me laugh!) "See us and know we are His" (see us and run a mile, more like). Since TWI's own MO since its beginning was to be contentious, and thereby to be ... "dividing the body of Christ" I don't seen how things are going to change. What's your position statement, Vern? And where are your efforts to (re)join as "members of Christ’s Body" and fellowship with actual Christians, and even (ha!)
    2 points
  46. Yep. Everything I, and others on this thread, goes right over your head. We don't live in OT times, Waxit. We have a little more freedom than that. I am not "finding legal loopholes" (which you seem to think is wrong) - I am explaining how law works. I am jolly sure that God intended man to take regular rest from his normal labours. Absolutely! And I have always made it clear to you (should you choose to look) that I do exactly that. I set out in detail how I enjoy my "sabbath rest" and use it to glorify God. I love doing that. Where I absolutely do
    2 points
  47. Hi everyone, although I did not disclose his name in my memoir, Undertow, Dr. Joseph Bishop was my father-in-law. I was married to Tim Bishop from 1973 to 1991. In Undertow, Tim's name is changed to Ed.
    2 points
  48. That was a crazy time. I remember in late ‘69, the US held its first draft lottery, which gave young men a random number corresponding to their birthdays. I got a really high number from the lottery and so was never drafted. I think I have something like survivor’s guilt... whenever I meet and get to talking with a Viet Nam vet – at some point I get teary eyed and choked up. The last time that happened to me was a few years ago – on vacation in Westcliffe, Colorado. I paid the check for him and his family at this little bar & grill…To all you vets and current military, thank you for your s
    2 points

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