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As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this). Consider this, Vern: Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to." In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way? This is just my opi

Hello! I was in Ohio for most of my life, raised by my two parents who joined the way in the 70's. I was a somewhat enthusiastic "believer" until my early 20s and then I dove in - went Way Disciple after I graduated college then moved in with ministers in Syracuse, New York. I left everything behind and I was so worried that I wouldn't be okay without "God's protection." But I have to say, my life is improving. I have a master's degree, a great job, a great car, and will soon co-own a home. None of that would have been possible if I was still giving away 10%+ of my income and a

And he says all that with a great big smile on his face, and something of a chuckle in his voice. Love the way he says, TWI wants to help people become debt-free. I bet they have no idea of preparing a proper budget (a genuine budget to help a needy family that can hardly feed and clothe the kids), making arrangements with creditors for full or partial repayment on terms, what state or other benefits the people might be entitled to; and getting effective help from charities, power companies and other like organisations. I have helped hundreds of people become debt-free and I love d

Been there and done that. It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online. And then a couple years after that before I realized God wasn't going to "life his protection" from my life if I did. The first time I read a thread from Greasespot was when I saw a print out of it on Rosalie's desk while I was cleaning. I wasn't prying, just dusting around things. But I do remember that moment very well. At that point I was already questioning the things I saw at HQ, and it struck me as odd that the woman in charge of the ministry

@Lifted Up My post in this thread is the first time I've ever let the universe know about what happened. I was in FC 18 if anyone was there or knows anyone from that time. I know the exact person who did it and her entire family is still strongly in TWI as far as I know. "Saying" those words in an internet forum to complete strangers made me reach out to my brother who is younger than me and I told him about it. All he said was he knew I've been dealt bad cards my whole life and didn't even want to talk about it. I am 6 months shy of 40 and haven't cried this much in decades, or ever

There is a small number of survivors still alive, and some have written books. Others have died in the last decade or two. There's talk of 6 million people of Jewish extraction. There are also millions more of other groups: gypsies, darker skinned people, homosexuals, disabled people - and intellectuals. Some estimate these others at about 4 million; they're often completely overlooked. Even now, the true numbers murdered by the regime are unknown. For this reason, I'm very alarmed when any bunch of people start demonizing any other group. It starts somewhere. Let's demonize ..

Annio, very interesting topic. Thanks for posting. I just wanted to add my two cents: When I was young, and insecure, I needed a lot of attention. I think for some kids, attention is a form of security; thus it equals love. However, my mother never understood this; she was very self-absorbed. Throughout, my childhood, I felt unloved, and because of it, I was a very insecure, and unhappy person. However, one day, I realized God loves me. What a profound impact that had on me!! God, Almighty, the Creator of Heaven, and Earth, loves me. Why, I will never know; I am nothing special. I'm

That's entirely possible. However, he shows so many signs of psychopathic/sociopathic behaviour that I tend to think that his response was because we weren't people to him, we were RESOURCES. So, when we thought for ourselves and dared to disagree with him, he took that personally because he was entitled to do all our thinking for us.

Being separated physically by many miles from our families presents it’s challenges. On our minds quite often is how they are doing, what’s the latest movie they watched, how is life with the new boy friend, did they gat the package you sent? Endless little things that make our hearts grow fonder each day. When I was in the Navy in Viet Nam, without a doubt, mail call was the high light of our day. We could not wait for a letter from home or a package containing cookies or candy. A picture of our family or buddies was the absolute greatest thing. Finding out the grandparents were doing j

Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980? Of course.....twi's practices have been self-serving.....and only self-serving......for a long, long time. It didn't have to end this way (spiraling down to its doom). It seems to me, those years 1977-1979 were ripe with outreach and "Word in Culture." With musical groups and outreach......some professional athletes from the NFL and tennis were taking pfal. A professional bull-riding clow

That's why it's good to hear alternate points of view- sometimes what you don't see is more important than what you DO. In regards to the GSC: A) the regulars who post here spend a few minutes a week here. (Any spending more are socializing and that's not twi-related.) B) The vast majority of people who've posted here have moved on with their lives and don't even check in here any more. Some places consider that bad for the place. However, since the GSC is partly about helping people move on and prosper after surviving twi, we consider them SUCCESS STORIES. They moved on an

Blaming devil spirits for everything was like the Easy Button in Way World. Got cancer?...devil spirits. Depression?... devil spirits. Substance abuse?...devil spirits. . And if you don't understand something... just S.I.T. more. This need for easy answers was probably a big draw for people who were searching for meaning, myself included. But guess what, life is complex and sometimes the answers are complicated. Other times, there simply aren't any answers. Life is an endless search for answers but sometimes that's what makes the journey so exciting and rewarding. Never stop searching and que

Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time, or season. We are to do as Jesus did, in heart, soul, mind, and strength. That means: loving and obeying God. And then, loving our neighbours (=those around us, those we come into contact with). It doesn't mean: following all the ritual that Jesus followed, and much of which he poo-poo'd.

Well, I've been thinking about that... and how easily people get conned (in general) these days. So I found an intriguing essay about classic literature that contrasts with VP quite well. https://medium.com/@spencerbaum/3-reasons-why-you-should-read-more-classic-literature-in-2019-e762cb5c910c Call me Ishmael. The famous opening sentence of Moby Dick, so short and provocative, is welcoming and familiar to the 21st century reader, who is accustomed to snappy prose with short sentences and lots of white space. A few sentences later in Melville’s masterpiece we get

"The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearly a commandment in God's word) he gets a hiding. Wait till you face Jesus Christ- and your face will turn pale for rejecting what is clearly a commandment of God. I have showed you in so many ways why it's an immutable commandment of God- and scriptures, left, right and centre- I dont have any hiddent agenda unlike TWI. But if you want to analyse yourself not to do God's sabbath keeping c

"Drive-By Posters"...ah, those were the days! Greasespot Cafe is one of the things that helped me to get a post-TWI life. From the early days, when I was still an innie, venting about various nonsensical Way things, to being an almost daily poster and moderator; commiserating with other posters who were getting divorced from hard-core Way cultists to eventually moving on to other things. I've had the privilege to meet 30 or 35 of you over the years at the Jack Daniels Weinie Roasts, a wedding, my Oakspear 2002 North American Tour and some of you stopping in Lincoln for a cup of coff

Yup, the millet is long gone, but the gut reaction lingers. Ugh. In case you don't know, that's an analogy for the "Word" that VPW fed us, amounting to a con of Himalayan proportions. And I should know. I've actually been to the Himalayan mountains … in May 2009. Socks, eye-witnesses willing to give their two cents are few and far between. I get "fan mail" through the Contact page on my website from former Wayfers either defending VPW and "shame on me," or from some too afraid to speak up or out due to relatives still in TWI or due to their own weariness … which I totally understand. Who

You're welcome! Yes, I have. A little early in my youth but moreso in later adulthood. I've read quite a bit about it and have some favorites in the field, although not many. Philosophy wasn't a popular term in the Way anytime I was involved (68 - 89). Philosophy is often considered antithetical to Christianity which is thought to be anti-intellectual by many. That line of thought contrasts Christianity the religion as being a set of revealed truths, a faith in a revelation that defines life with Philosophy as an inquiry into the fundamentals of life that tries to consider it

Hi Penguin 2, in the grand scam of things - it's been the same old bull$hit the whole time - the important thing is that you left !

I just have to shout about this. Mum has gone home from hospital today. No visitors allowed, so most days I've gone to visit and stand at her window (she was on the ground floor) and rang her mobile phone. We chatted and she would wave to me. But today, she was all ready in her going-home clothes, big jacket and all. The nurse saw me and offered to bring mum to sit in a seat at the window, and opened the window so that we could chat better. It only opens a few inches, lets air but no people in or out. But we could talk properly. It was soooo nice. Mum was walking well (for her) an

That was always the accusation, or some variation thereof. God made us individuals, not clones. Be the authentic, Godly, you. Love as fully as you can, be kind, be compassionate, and engage your God-given faculties.

It seems that we occasionally get posters who think they have some sort of inalienable rights to things they don't. Here's some friendly reminders. 1) The GSC is a private messageboard that is open to the public. The Admins and Mods determine the rules, and have final say on all disagreements. 2) You don't have any authority to overturn their decisions. You can make a logical case for something. If they disagree, you can either drop it or refuse. 3) Picking fights with staff results in warnings, deleted posts, deleted threads, and temporary or permanent bans. 4)

So, some people want to just sweep it all under the rug. They think it doesn't make a difference. Their motivation? They WANT to think JAL is reliable, they WANT to be able to trust him. This lends stability to their beliefs without bothering to find a competent leader. That's the "why" of it. But, are they right? John Lynn has taught error, repeatedly. John Lynn still teaches error, VERY QUIETLY. Does it matter? This is the same John Lynn whose actual Christian "education" doesn't really exist. He learned from a plagiarizing rapist who emphasized people

Annio, I was sexually assaulted by two of the men in my family, over 50 years ago. I have spent my entire life recovering from it. Thank God for therapists, and medication. Both of them are helping me in my process of recovering.

Socks, I remember JN; they were wonderful!! Their music was so inspiring, and Godly. I heard them several times, and always thought their music was amazing. I have wonderful memories of them. Many of the head honchos in TWI, were guilty of any number of wrongdoings, but JN was the "real deal."

Grease Spot is a good conduit for therapy. I think discussing bad experiences is more than telling the other side of the story (as important as that is). Thinking about these recent posts reminded me of how much good therapy I get from Grease Spot. I know I must bore some old timers here when I go over and over again and again some of my experiences . Some of what motivates me is to provide a point of resonance for others who have had similar experiences – so they won’t feel they’re weird or alone. But I sure get a lot out of it too! So I googled “therapeutic to talk to others about b

First off, if you're trying to get someone to settle their differences with somebody else, shouldn't you try to get them to confront their demons, face-to-face? [This site is more about all the survivors OF those who held the microphone. Those who held the microphone have had plenty of chances to speak up. The GSC gave/gives a voice to those whose voice was stolen. However, the former and present leaders, as well as former and current members, are welcome to post here. People are free to use their own names as well as pseudonyms. A few of them HAVE posted here under pseudonyms.

There continues to persist the notion that the GSC is REQUIRED to be a Christian messageboard, rather than a messageboard open to all religious positions (including anti-religious positions and a-religious positions.) To require that would be a DISSERVICE to twi survivors who no longer consider themselves Christian. Some ex-twi were so scarred by twi, by vpw, by lcm, by JAL, by CG, by rfr, that the flee Christianity completely. I disagree with their decisions, but I have sympathy for anyone who's been hurt like that. Telling them to "just suck it up" does not work, and is rather I

Beguiled, it's my time, and energy. I love reading the various posts on the GSC. Some I agree with, some I don't. But, even with those I disagree with, I still find the posts interesting. I personally had no idea of all the drama, that went on in TWI, until I read all the posts here. Back when I was in TWI, everything was Moonlight, and Roses, or so it seemed. However, since I started reading the posts here at the GSC, I have learned that TWI, f--cked over tons of it's people in various ways. For many of us, we spent our youth, money, and energy in various TWI programs. Youth, money, a

I have been thinking a lot about how we learn how to show love to others. In TWI we learned a specific brand of love. First, through love-bombing (constant attention, super close friends, praise, etc.), and then through the withholding of that attention and praise to straight-up condemnation, ostracization, and public shaming. And all that negative side of this was also branded as "LOVE" ... They made God into VPW's own image - an abusive Father. And if God is Love... then in order to be godly, we must be the same way. I hurt a lot of people because I "loved" them. I cut my ow

Such a frikkin ego trip, to say that. Though I don't remember it as "the ministry would fail" but more along the lines that "the word of God would be lost" or some such nonsense. Too long ago to be sure. When I heard whatever it was, it was a "Whaaaattttt?" moment - a red flag, really, but one of many I ignored. Immediately forgot about. But then, I had decent, giving, Christian parents as role models. My parents weren't denominational - dad went to the Anglican church, mum to the Methodist (when she could manage to). I couldn't see either of them losing their faith or their l

You are entirely right that God works in small settings. Early commandments and instructions to the fledgling people of Israel include this: Deut 7:7 7The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than the other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples and if you read the early chapters of Deuteronomy (it's well worth the re-read), it's all about staying pure and close to the heart of God, rejecting falsehoods, and taking care of those who can't look after themselves. This tiny nation was to be an example to the rest of the world and

Thank you! It has been an adventure for sure. I wrote it with the idea of helping myself, and maybe in the process helping others. Helping people who were in groups like TWI, and also helping others outside to understand that the people who fall for cults are not stupid or ignorant. The rank and file of TWI were some of the best quality people I have ever known - but the belief system and top down control of the group ruined all of it. The world could have been enriched 1000xs over by those people's kind hearts and abilities. But we wasted them on a false cause. I am going to get those

Beguiled, I don't give much time to TWI. I do visit here from time to time, mainly to see if there are any new people or visitors who can be helped. I learned stuff there (including "what it is not"), and I've learned stuff in the very good church that I attend now. You may find that most of the continuing Christians who continue to post here from time to time think much the same. Can't speak for others, but I find TWI increasingly diminutive in my rear view mirror. Too much to deal with in the here and now. I know the scars and long-lasting outcomes in terms of my life, both n

Twi has evolved. When wierwille was president......he was the CEO, the Chairman of the Board, the Founder, the Teacher, the Preacher, the Researcher, the Plagiarist (oops), the Book Author, the Music and Talent Screener, the Way Corps Director and the P.T. Barnum of the Traveling Circus. No one could fire him. No one could confront him. His enablers and inner circle were loyalists to keep his secrets to his deathbed. Martindale assumed the same power.......but he did not have the same leverage over the youth as wierwille. The presidency held the power over the cult followers. A

We know a loaded question from an "innocent" one.

I think you might be comparing apples to oranges – your example with the stop sign assumes I see the approaching speedy car and that I assess it is exceeding the posted speed limit and it does not look like it's slowing down for the stop sign – in that simple scenario I agree with you, it would be foolish on my part to ignore such risk factors from my perspective and judgement. There’s a lot more to understanding the Holocaust - since it involves many perspectives and how people evaluated things, and how involved others may want to get in keeping something bad from happening (speaking in

What these dip s——-s don’t understand is we that have left have marked and avoided them!

I'll admit my memory isn't as sharp as it once was, but I seem to recall a discussion addressing that very topic, some time ago. I have no idea how to find it again or where it all led. I seem to recall, though, when the dust all settled, we found ourselves down the block inside at 23 Skidoo.

Probably not the place for this, but I've started to study church history lately and have found it very interesting. As a result, I've been growing more interested in the Orthodox Churches.

Waxit: You point out you have had to explain the same verse several times and want to not dwell on it again. Fair Enough. In the same vain, why do you ignore responding numerous times to the following verses? Colossians 2:16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Romans 14:5-6: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not t

Waxit “It’s like people on gsc gang up on me. I am not saying everyone is like this but most except for one other person I know and have stayed with and respect.” As Wierwille used to say; “If you have the right key you can open the door.” Obviously, you do not possess the right key. GSC was set up with the idea of assisting battered, injured people who had finally escaped the clutches of TWI. Wierwille used the Corp women to commit adultery with him. His successor, Martindale, followed in his footsteps. When I say “they used the Corp women” it is more in the context of these “Men O

I remember one day, in FellowLaborers, looking in the mirror and suddenly wondering "How did I become this person I'm looking at in the mirror?" It wasn't one of those moments where you somberly ponder the situation. It was jolting and instantaneous, like an unexpected slap in the face. It was depressing and horrifying at the same time. I chalked it up to unrenewed mind and silently chanted some since forgotten retemory verse.

Yeah I got a life...just so happens Grease Spot is an enjoyable part of my life. Raf, cheers to you and Paw and the moderators and everyone else that keeps this place going. stay safe!

Waxit: "The 7th day Sabbath was universally accepted by all and observed by both Jews,Gentiles and the apostles/leadership Acts 13: 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God." ===================================

A cult survives by hardening the line between "us" and "them", and making "them" so repugnant that we're glad we're not "them." That way, even when "us" are badly oppressed, we're still glad that at least we're not "them". For cults, only "us" qualify for salvation. In twi, for decades now, to leave twi is to leave " the household of God" and forfeit rewards, salvation, or both. People who stay in twi are so lulled to sleep that they don't question how wrong that is.

I'm sure that there's people out there who like to pretend I spend all my free time just slandering people. As a reminder they're wrong, I'd like to point out that I think MOST OF US had the best intentions and a lot of us really wanted to serve God and be our best for God. For MOST OF US, I don't fault our goals, our intentions, our sincerity. As for wierwille, that was another story. He himself lied about what "sincerity" was. We agree it's " no guarantee of truth", since someone can sincerely believe the Earth is flat. But someone who is "sincere" is someone who genuine

Thank you! It's a learning exercise to write my thoughts out this way. Over the years I have notes, we all probably do on different things and it's fun to to write it out. For me it writes different than it speaks, and speaks different than it thinks, and it gets clarified in the process, if that makes sense. annio really said it all regarding the study of administrations in this original statement - " I think there is a lot more accurate continuity with the perspective that God is always interacting w/ His ppl (and often others) as the same covenanting Father, rather than thinking of Hi