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Oakspear last won the day on July 24

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  1. I don't recall him saying he SIT'd first in his Payne office; do you recall where he said that? I would not at all be surprised if he contradicted himself on this though.
  2. One of the things I see Wierwille doing time after time is basing some aspect of his teaching on someone like Bullinger, but completely misunderstanding the point. Here's an example that I found that I posted on the "Snow Job" thread some years ago:
  3. Even without the (likely true) aspect of being "overseen", it makes more sense to have them somewhere where they can possibly have an impact. But TWI leaders will never admit that the old way was wrong when they change to something new.
  4. What? I thought the "word" was over the world?
  5. Oakspear

    After Long Hiatus

    Good to see your virtual face! I recently started posting again after sporadic absences. My 20 year anniversary of getting kicked out of TWI recently passed & I'm gearing up for the 20 year anniversary of my ex-wife kicking me out
  6. In retrospect, it didn't matter. What mattered to top tier of TWI was that they could control every aspect of your life and blame yourself for the lack of success that was preordained from the beginning. In my case, was it at all realistic to send four outsiders (3 of us city kids) to a small rural town and expect anything but lack of growth? As messed up as my WOW year was, I still drank the Kool-Aid and was involved in a Way Home the next year - even attempted to enter the Way Corps (was saved from that by being unable to scrape together sponsorship $)
  7. I wasn't aware that Lynn had died. But I was aware of the character assassination that took place upon death on occasion, often of people who, up until death, were 100% cheerleaders for whatever Martindale or Wierwille were peddling. If these people were suck F-ups, why were they in leadership positions in the first place? (not saying they WERE F-ups, just that post-mortem, LCM SAID they were). For a group that was so hot on "discerning of spirits" and "in-depth spiritual awareness", they sure were terrible at spotting spiritual issues until it became completely obvious.
  8. Other than lack of money, I can only recall one coupled who were turned down. The reason given was a minor medical condition that the wife had. Although not long after he was thrown out and M&A'd and they divorced
  9. Good point about splitting hairs. From my perch 20 years after leaving TWI and over 40 years after first getting involved, the purpose of Wierwille's novel interpretations was mainly to establish himself as the expert by undermining the reliability of virtually every other denomination, not about establishing "the truth". The middle portion of PFAL, while ostensibly about the keys to The Word interpreting itself, is example after example of "things everybody got wrong". After a few sessions he's not even backing crap up with actual verses, but shaky translations based on wishful thinking and "if you could only see it in the original" as well as suspect "Orientalisms".
  10. I'd been away from GSC for a few years, so missed this and just saw it today. I've been neglecting my paying job to read it all in one go. I was kicked out in August 2001, after having been on probation in 1999, and lived through a lot of what you describe, albeit from a non-Corps perspective. Our local Way Corps though, was a true believer and enforced all the nonsense with an iron fist. In regard to the "bribery" letter, my young son, who was maybe 7 years old, attempted to give him a pencil with an eraser in the shape of an animal of some kind, just because. He returned it to him, and quoted the bribery letter to me and my wife. Illegitimate son of a dog. The purges, the "revelation", the idiotic idea to put all the Way Corps on the payroll, the willingness of some people to get fully on board with the witch hunt atmosphere to get rid of people they didn't like, it got more insane every year, if not every week and every day. You spotlight that "the original sin was lesbianism" nonsense in the WayAP class. While only slightly more irrational than "the original sin was masturbation", it set new lows in shaky and disconnected chains of illogic and novel and out-of-context translations of Hebrew words. I sent a long letter to John Reynolds after sitting through this ridiculous class, highlighting that & many other crazy new doctrines promulgated in it. He called me on the telephone one night and told to (1) trust the trustees and (2) it sounded like I had been listening to internet gossip
  11. Happy to hear that the rift was healed after you left TWI. My own parents, while deeply concerned about my TWI involvement, even considering hiring a deprogrammer, stuck with me during my TWI years. They visited often, and even came to a few Twig fellowships. Wierwille, even when he wasn't "prophesying" family members deaths, did little to calm family members' fears for their children & reveled in fanning the flames that caused estrangement among families
  12. This is a leetle bit , but your remark quoted above reminded me of something that was going on in the mid-nineties. The area that I was in was mostly the "seasoned grads" and their children. There was a smattering of younger people who had stuck around after their WOW year, but the majority were people in their late thirties, early forties, some who had taken PFAL and been WOWs themselves in the seventies. There was a big push for outreach by Way Corps who were full-time Way employees. I started hearing those of us with careers, kids in school etc denigrated as "old grads" with our thinking mocked as being "old wineskins".
  13. Yikes Not at all unusual in Wayworld, sadly enough My own WOW family coordinator attempted this maneuver multiple times. One of my WOW 'sisters' was a no-nonsense woman who shut him down pretty emphatically. When we would get together with other Way groups he would make sure to mention to any women within earshot that I had a girlfriend (who was a WOW in another state) in order to remove me from competition
  14. Oh, I think it's connected. It's been my observation that people who "believe in" God have various mind pictures of what God is and what God does that may have nothing to do with the doctrinal positions of the church that they belong to, or Christianity in general. One of my sisters and I were having a discussion a few years ago about how she was mad at God because of several things that had gone wrong in her life, things that, in my opinion, were the direct result of her own choices (in particular, she lost custody of her children to her ex-husband because she was in prison). She just couldn't understand why "God allowed it to happen". My response to her was "maybe God isn't what you think he is". Not as a suggestion that God didn't exist, but that she was viewing God, not as he was, or even how he was described in the Bible, but as a creation of her own mind.
  15. In some ways, your WOW year sounded a lot like my year before I went WOW. I was a twig leader for most of the year and we too had a lot of fun, got good results from our witnessing and ran multiple classes, as well as seeing things that we interpreted at the time as miraculous. Not to say that there weren't red flags, there were, but overall that year was a positive experience. In retrospect, the reason probably was lack of leadership. Not that there weren't leaders, we were in Queens NY that had two active branches plus a Spanish-language branch, part of an Area that had 7 or 8 branches, with another big Area nearby. No, we technically had leaders, it's just that the first couple of layers weren't Way Corps, they were people who naturally rose up to take leadership positions. None of the branch leaders were Corps grads, most of the twig leaders weren't even advanced class grads and the Area leader was interim Corps, not a grad. But some points have been made about the lack of genuine leadership qualities of Way "leaders". For quite a while I was influenced by that leadership model. I was in various roles in retail management for many years and unfortunately brought the Way template of leading people into my day job. I was a horrible manager until I was able to shed the Way influence.
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