Avondale

My mom and I loved Foster and Teesh. He was from NC like us! We were WOW's in New Bedford, MA '79-80.

Kathie

Was your Mom Paula? I was WOW in New Bedford in '79-'80!!

Marlene Dunham

Can someone bring me up to speed! Whose son is V2P2? and what splinter group did he grow up in? I've been gone since 1987

I went out silently into the day, as the long, dark night of TWI fell away into the wonders and warmth of the daylight of reality. :-)

Seriously, I saw how others did it, and saw the downsides of trying to go out without making the TWI leadership mad. I also wanted to avoid saying or doing something that would have me labeled Mark and Avoid, or going through some long drawn out process like most of you did. Since I was living on my own at the time and far from any family and friends in TWI (I had moved for a job), it was quite easy to just stop going to any TWI functions. I did feel a little bad that I was scheduled to teach for about 50% of the next month, but I at least was courteous enough to stop going and stop being in contact with them on a week that I wasn't teaching.

So, tell me Mr P - I never quite figured out what "Mark & Avoid" was as this was not part of TWI 1 or at least not called that. If someone "left" prior to POP I guess it was more or less "assumed" that they were possesed (why else would they leave??) I can remember when friend of mine left the 2nd or 3rd Corp, which was unheard of in those days and I thought that being his friend and hanging out with him would maybe help show him the light, show him the error of his ways (of course, that didn't happen) but I actually got phone calls from the Limb Leader of NY at the time telling me to stay away from him (that didn't happen either) but I thought why wouldn't they want me to help this guy??? I guess that was a form of M&A without the label.

Sorry

VP himself taught that cancer was a devil spirit

Why couldn't GC et al cast it out?

I guess that would be because VP didn't

believe" not because CG didn't have the "power"...hey, where's God in all this?

There is a hypnotic technique VPW uses in PFAL that I have yet to prove how much he uses it through out the class because I don't have access to it. The technique he used is a trance induction technique where the hypnotist looks you in the eyes but is focusing 6 inches behind your eyes. All those close ups of Vic's face, remember how wierd he seemed to look with his eyes? It was trance induction, which caused the viewer to open up to suggestion. I have no idea how many suggestions he made during the class, but anyone with a copy could count them, they are there.

A minor amount of programming was going on at the twig level but PFAL was the big one for sure.

Seth

I find this VERY interesting. I've never heard this said before. All those closeups of Vic's face and how wierd his eyes looked. Most of us watched those tapes probably 100's of times. Anyone else know anything about "trance induction"? Curious.

I've heard there are private chat rooms. How does that work?

When people started taking more advanced classed and start to learning some of these "teachings" did not people questioning or thought this is too strange or bizzare did people object or leave. Many of you seem very smart to me. No offence is intended. I am sure all of you knew then what you know now none of you would have joined. I like to get feedback in this trend.

One reason (in my case anyway) I didn't know the Bible. Never read the bible in my life until I got to the Way. so there was nothing to compare it to.

I do agree with you (mostly)... I just ask "how did you get to the point that you even wanted/needed the AC?" ...how did you get to the point that you bought what veepee was teachin' ya hook, line and sinker? (we all did for the most part)

Well after session (I guess its a good thing I can't even remember how many sessions PFAL was and I only took it a hundred times...I guess I'm finally deprogrammed after 21 years) Anyway after we "manifested" spoke in tongues and were flying as high as a kite - we wanted more more more. Intermediate Class (I always had a real problem with that one) and then, of course, the Advanced Class. So, yes, it did start with PFAL. It could only get better and better. But then comes the AC. and, oh.....there's eveil out there.....lions, and tigers, and bears, oh my.

We didn't really pick up on it in the Foundational class (It was the fear in the heart and the life of that mother!!!!!) because we were too high and too blind. And it was meeting all those needs - the father figure, the structure, the boundaries that we were all looking for (from another thread!) which is why we were "prime meat" for a cult

I agree that it was PFAL where it all started but I think the AC was where the Hook got us. the paranoia. NOW, if we left the ministry, we knew ALL about those devil spirits and how they would get us because we were NOT in fellowship. Out of alinement, out from under God's umbrella........the devil spirits had free reign.

In the beginning it was all happy, happy, love, love, family, fellowhsip - so most of us (those without a brain I guess) were not planning our escape. We were having fun. By the time we got to the AC and learned all the "inner secrets" we were afraid to leave. what if it all were true? What if the devil WAS going to get me!

I’ll never forget the night I left. I was in labor with my first child. June 23, 1987. My now ex and I ran the Limb bookstore and I was on the phone with the Limb Leader arguing about setting up a bookstore at some meeting. We already had one foot out the door. Ralph D. had already been to town, etc and that was just the straw. My ex had wanted to leave for a long time but I was the one holding him back. So the Limb leader is YELLING at me and I’m in LABOR. (Not a good idea). I said “We quit” my ex will bring the bookstore back to you on the weekend. We then moved to another city which we had been thinking of doing anyway – but we really needed to get away! It was hard. That was your whole life – your whole social network – we WERE friends back then in the day.

BELLE – I just read the two part Broadcast that JavaJane mentioned and I was floored.

I got in TWI in 1973 and out in 1987. I looked at Waydale a little bit back then and have been around Greasespot a little. I’ve become much more interested since reading Kristen’s book “Losing the Way”. But OMG I had no idea that the Way was like that. It’s almost like there were two Ways. I guess so because I’ve seen it called TWI 1, and TWI 2, etc. I would think that the paranoia of the Way drove out a whole lot more people than it kept! We weren’t on the Internet in 1973 and we were still the happy hippies “looking for the truth”. But Thank you SO much for that insight and what a journey that must have been for you. You were very courageous and I’m glad you made it out ok on the other end. I should say made it out even better than before.

QUOTE FROM BROADCAST: “International had a whole Department that copied posts from Greasespot and organized them”. My O my

……hmmm, it also gets me thinking about what TWI put in their Kool-Aid.

Prozac for everyone!

So, do you think that VP et al were all back at Hdqtrs saying "let's target all those hippies because they are out of bounds with sex and drugs" they will be easy to draw into the fold? Was it a conscious effort on their part?

Or do you think it was us hippies who were seeing that we were out of bounds and needed the structure (as well as father figure in many cases). I suppose it was a combination of the two. We were all at the right(wrong) place a the right (wrong?) time!!

I agree Avondale, TWI offered us a safe haven in those chaotic times. Kris made another wonderful statement in her book when she said, "They [her parents] raised me liberally, without doctrine or structures...but their lack of directedness had an unintended consequence. I looked for another anchor, one stronger and steadier than myself or my parents."

One of the great tenants of parenthood is to give your kids boundaries, structure. Children thrive on boundaries. Those of us who grew up without it thought it was great! (some of us anyway). Look at all the freedom we had, we could do anything we wanted. Our parents really didn't care where we were all night, who we were hanging out with or would just accept our made up stories.

As I said my sister comitted sucide in 1967. From 1966 to 1973 (when I first took PFAL) I did every drug I could find and slept with every guy I could. Why not, I had no boundaries. I told the story earlier that when I went to my first twig leader to ask what the word says about sex because I knew I should change my life according to what the word said - he had me in bed by the end of the "counseling session". STILL, I knew that was wrong. I really see that the desire for a father figure along with the strong desire for "boundaries and structure" drew us to the Way. Ironically, however, they would preach that we were "free". Not like the organized religions where we would have to kneel at certain times, chant at certain times, etc. etc. WE had free will. There's a lot here to think about.

Sunesis Said:

(QUOTE):We were little kids, so many of us raised ourselves, dad drunk when he was home, mom, distant - so many of us kids were on our own at a young age. We did cut school and hop the train into the city with our buddies to hang in Tompkins Square park, our older brothers and sisters did drive us to the city, we did basically what we wanted. Many kids rarely saw their parents 'cause the parents were always out, traveling - that one kid's house that was being renovated, parents in Spain - definitely happened alot. We travelled in little gangs.

I guess my point is, we were so ripe for the pickin'. Here came the father figure with the offer of the godly family who really loved you. Hanging at someone's apartment in the City, but this time as part of a loving group, with the older kids - really, it just didn't get any cooler.

What an amazing intro, she captures the times and feel so well. We were so young, on our own, searching.

WOW - after 35 years it's starting to make sense. Just A WEEK AGO a friend asked me why I think I wound up in a cult. It's been something I've been trying to figure out since 1986 when I left. My family thought it was because I broke up with a boyfriend of 4 years - I knew that wasn't the reason.

I was the "older sibling" going into the City, etc., raising myself and my siblings. I was a "groovy christian" from the Bronx - about 25 miles south of Rye in 1973 - just missing the Dr. driving into town on his Harley days (which, of course, we all heard about - it was a legend)

Thanks Sunesis - I believe that's it - the father figure that was missing. My father was not an alcoholic (although my mother probably was in those days, it was hard to tell - with the scotch on the rocks every night. It was "normal". BUT my father was Manic Depressive, hospitalized about every 3 years. My sister was Schizophrenic and committed suicide in 1967 at the age of 18 (I was 17 at the time). I was always SO proud of myself for NOT being mentally Ill in this mentally ill family so denied for a very LONG time that the Way was a cult, as that would make me less on a strong, independent person to join something like that.

Well, we all know how that happens because we all have our own stories and reasons. But I think I'm finally seeing that I really needed that father figure or even more so, stabalization and focus in my life at that time. And what do you know.....there was "The Way".

Thanks Kristen for the help and insight you are givng to the rest of us, along with(I'm sure) you're own healing.

What struck me the most was the sexual promiscuity BEFRORE TWI. Although I was certainly surprised at her young age. I "found the Way" in 1973 and one reason I was searching was that I knew I was headed in the wrong direction with drugs and sex (just didn't care about the person, it was just something physical) and I knew this was wrong. I went to my first twig leader, a very good looking young fellow, and "counseled" with him about my lifestyle, etc and "what does the Word say" about all this? I was really looking for answers. Yup, you guessed it, before the counseling session was done I was in bed with my first twig leader (this was before I took PFAL....does that count?

What gets me is that I stayed for 15 YEARS!!! No more sleeping with twig leaders...oh, well there was just that one other (and he was married with 5 kids) I guess the message came across load and clear from day one that it didn't really matter.

Happy Birthday George

From Marlene D. in Sammamish