SlaveForJah
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Posts posted by SlaveForJah
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Perhaps I should be clearer.
I believe God will get me up from the dead, and that I have eternal life. I believe that the Bible tells us very little about eternity. That's a LOT more than any of us can imagine. We will know, even as we are also known, and not some poor reflection. We will have new bodies with new capabilities.
I don't worry about other people's allusions to what they think the Bible means, nor do I make leaps of logic to fill in gaps. It's enough for me to trust God to do what's best in His mind, for me. That is my Hope.
I believe that Revelation Chapter 20, vss. 4-6 discusses those beheaded for God, and it tells us things they hadn't done. Now you can add in anything else you want there, but God doesnt. I do think that this is where people say things are alluded to. I just don't have any allusions. I was never beheaded, at least not so far. My hope in in God, My hope is in Christ, not allusions, and in what he says, and not in what men try to tell me He really meant when he said it. There is nothing in the Book of Revelation to support the Body of Christ's inclusion in verse 4 of chapter 20,... many of the dead were never beheaded, and many are alive.
There
Hello again, Gen-2.
I must have missed where I made leaps of logic or stated things that are not already stated in the passages provided. I would be happy for you to point them out for me.
I, too, have my hope and faith in God and Christ.
I have more to say, but little time at the moment. I will get back to this as soon as I am available.
Agape
SlaveForJah
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That makes no sense. In your first two quoted passages, different people are mentioned, and they take place at different places. Unless you are saying, Ignore that, it's all the same. No offense but there is dissimilarity there that your words do not clear up. Your third passage has little to do with reconciling the differences of the first two insofar as times and places are concerned.
As an example, all of those in the second quoted passage were dead and then resurrected. In the first quoted passage, some were dead and resurrected, and some are alive.
And then The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. Different events, different times, different people.
Hello Gen-2.
Perhaps I am just not following your response correctly, but, to which "different places" are you referring, between what was mentioned in 1Thessalonians and Revelation?
The "first resurrection" mentioned by John is for those will reign with Christ for a thousand years. Those who will reign with Christ have also "been given authority to judge" with Christ. Who will they be judging? "The rest of the dead".
The "rest of the dead" are not judged while still asleep in death, but rather once they are resurrected. The 'second', or 'general' resurrection will provide the effect of the ransom to the countless billions asleep in the grave. Paul spoke of this resurrection to Governor Felix. His words:
"15and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." - Acts 24:15 NIV
"15having a hope in God, which (A)these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." - Acts 24:15 NASB
"15having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, [that] there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous;" - Acts 24:15 YLT
"5having hope towards God, which they themselves also receive, that there is to be a resurrection both of just and unjust." - Acts 24:15 Darby
Notice that in all the translations above the resurrection is referred to in the singular, "a resurrection" or "a rising again". It is not spoken of in the plural. It is then described as to those who will be raised as a part of that singular resurrection, "both the righteous and the wicked", "righteous and unrighteous", and "just and unjust". Again, this is ONE resurrection, the 'second' or 'general' resurrection. The "first resurrection" being for those described in 1Thessalonians as "dead in Christ". The 'second' resurrection is for those who will be judged by the kings and priests that are raised in the "first resurrection".
Agape
SlaveForJah
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So,... if the gathering together is the resurrection of the just, then we are all going to New Jerusalem, no? That is our Hope? None of us are going to heaven if New Jerusalem is our destination , because that's on earth
... and so on.
But you can see what I'm getting at. There are several points here that would resultingly conflict. "Seated in the heavenlies", for us, becomes - just a Figure of Speech.
Just asking....
The gathering together is detailed for us in 1Thessalonians. It is part and parcel with, if not, the same as, the "first resurrection".
"13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." - 1Thessalonians 4:13-17 NIV
The resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous is a separate, singular event. Both events, the "first resurrection" and the "resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous" are described in Revelation.
"4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." - Revelation 20:4-6
The term "resurrection of the just and the unjust" denotes the far-reaching nature of the resurrection. It is not a teaching of two separate resurrections, one for "the just", and one for "the unjust". But rather it is alluding to the propitiatory nature of the sacrifice of Christ and the restorative benefits of the Ransom. Paul spoke of this in his first letter to Timothy.
"3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time." - 1Timothy 2:3-6
Agape
SlaveForJah
Our Gathering and Our Resurrection
in Doctrinal: Exploring the Bible
Posted
Hello Roy.
I firmly believe that there will be time points involved in the "first" and 'second' resurrections. While I do believe that the "first resurrection" is the "better resurrection" spoken of at Hebrews 11:35, and therefore 'first' in qualitative terms, I also believe that the "first resurrection" occurs prior to the 'second' or 'general' resurrection, and is therefore 'first' in temporal terms as well.
To those with eternity time means very little, or at least the passing of time means very little. On the other hand, even God, the only being who has always had time on his side, so to speak, has a sense of punctuality and a definite time-table for certain things to occur.
Agape
SlaveForJah