rodneyomccarthy

I wrote Jim's son. He has the book and many of his fathers writings. He seemed interested in saleing them, including the book. I don't know how much he wants. He asked if I was looking to publish the book. I said no. I just wanted a copy, and would pay for it. He seems very busy.

Thank You. I hope someone does. Shame to lose this kind of history from the people who were there.

Maybe Connie Frisbee would know how to contact the Doop family, or maybe someone here has connections that allow then to find answers about the manuscript or book?

I met Lonnie in 1975, we had a very interesting conversation about my life.. He knew things no one knew. But I never met Jim Doop. I heard he had kept a diary of his walk in the 70's. I was wondering if it would be possible to pay to for a copy of the book or manuscript. Does anyone have any current info on this?

Thank You...Man, oh man... So sad....Sad for my generation. I love you all, I am so sorry.

Whatever happened to Heefner and Dopp

Lastly... I heard of this. I met Lonnie Frisbee years ago. (He was right on, read my mail... Secrets in my heart no one new except God)... If I'm not mistaken Doop was with Lonnie at the beginning, and said they met Wierwille, but didn't follow him to his farm.

Man... I'm so sorry for you guys and what you went thru... Guess I'll not listen to anymore of his mp3's.... I guess this is good for me, what you wrote... For I have been struggling for a few months now, because I always wanted to be a student of the scriptures, and the truth be known I was being like Israel wanting a human king. You see God has been really faithful over the last 42 years to teach me himself, and keep me from organized Christianity, or so-called Christianity. Meaning to say "God hates religion even if you call it church". ANYWAY, guess I won't post anymore here, so sad that so many people got hurt, including you. Thanks for taking the time to read and answer my testimony and question. I hope that you know, the hurt was from men, Jesus is still there and always has loved you... God Bless.

Maybe the power is in us on the inside, for that is where Jesus says the kingdom is. Then we have the obvious answer, that it's in the blood and our testimony. I struggled for years with sins, 2 mountains in my life, that were miraculously removed not so long ago. I can only share with you what God has done for me, in hopes that it will cause you to look to him. I met Jesus in the 1970's I had a rare and dramatic conversion (at least that is what Christians tell me). But by the end of 75 I had accidentally disobeyed a spoken word... Let me explain. I had gone to visit a dearly loved Christian brother, he was like a father to me. He and his wife were like my spiritual parents. Anyway, the weekend I went to see him, his wife was gone away to school for 3 weeks. He was so lonely for company, he asked me to go to dinner with him Immediately the Lord spoke (just like hearing someone standing next to you, and speaking to you, but no one else hears it) and the Lord said "do not go". Immediately I told Bob "I can't go" he said "Oh Rod please go with me, I don't want to eat alone". Now this restaurant served liquor, and I thought that was what the Lord was worried about. So, I said "Oh Lord you know me I don't drink"... So off we go to the restaurant. Soon after we get there, a brother who was really struggling with alcohol, came into the restaurant, his name was Augie, he immediately started proclaiming we didn't like him because he was Puerto Rican, we claimed that was silly, and not true. Well this started a fight, I was just a kid, and he took a swing at me, Bob stepped in between and got hit, they were fighting. I couldn't believe it, and couldn't watch it. I started to walk away, but when I did Bob felt betrayed, and said "If you walk, you might as well go all the way home". Oh man that cut like a knife. The next morning, I had to leave, but the Lord spoke and said "tell Bob you forgive him, and give him a hug". But I refused, I said "Lord I can't, it hurts to bad". So, I left for home 3000 miles away. Oh man, when I got home, what a mess I created. My life seemed to fall apart. I felt like Hudson Taylor the missionary to China, who said one day sin and troubles became so apparent, so overwhelming he didn't know what to do. Well that was me, sin and lust in total control, and it just wouldn't let up, nor let me go. I spent (30+) years in this sin and a spiritual wilderness that seemed God had died or left me completely alone, as if He hated me for disobeying Him. (Of course, none of this was true, I know that now). I was crushed, I confessed my sins to God and anyone who would listen. I felt for sure I was on my way to hell. I even fasted for 30 days one time, I wrote men of God, I cried, shouted, pleaded with God, got angry, desperate, I just can't share enough what this did to me. The silence was killing me. But I continued on, working, raising my family, going to school, going to church, tithing, and nothing helped. But never once was I unaware of two things God wanted to change, one was my sin, the other was the fact that I wasn't trusting Him as I went thru this wilderness and sin trial. Then… One day Jesus shows up, His presence so real you though he was going to appear bodily. And then He spoke.... It happened like this. I'm driving, and lusting. I cry out to God, where are you, why aren't you helping me with this! All of a sudden, I hear this statement "why don't you tell me the truth". I say "what truth"…Then my understanding is opened and I SEE! I say OK Lord… "I don't want you to interfere, I love my sin and while I'm troubled about it, I don't want you to interfere" leave my sin alone. Do you know what happened? I somehow forgot all those thoughts about sin and lust, if they came back I would confess this new-found truth and somehow my mind would be distracted again. This went on for a few days, and then I found myself free. This reminds me of a guy named Tommy Williams from the 70's…A brother walks up to Tommy complaining that he can't stop smoking. Tommy says "brother when Jesus is ready for you to stop, then you will. A few days later that brother was so excited, because he found himself free a few days later. NOW what does all of this show me… It shows me we do NOT know truth UNTIL it is revealed to us, and most importantly "Truth is a person", and that person makes us free. Now onto the issue of Trust. I just couldn't do it, I agreed I needed to, but I just couldn't find it, I had no emotional connection to this issue of trust. Oh, I could say the words "I trust you Lord". But not with emotion, not with a full heart. You know what I mean, about an emotional connection, so they just weren't empty words right? Look it's like a man saying to a woman "yea sure I love you" she knows he doesn't mean it. BUT if he says "I LOVE YOU WITH ALL MY HEART" and If I live, and I live without you, then I will surly die. My day begins with you, and it ends with you. Life is nothing without you. That is a statement with emotion behind it, and it's real. This is why God wants us to experience Him. Do you think after the walls of Jericho fell that those men ran home, and said "the walls fell down, big deal"? No, they were telling everyone the mighty works of God and how wonderful He was. So back to my story… It happened similar to the sin issue, I was driving, and was again all alone. I was listening to a CD (Led Zeppelin) it was blaring loud. Once again, I heard Him speak. He said "You still aren't trusting me". I said "I know it Lord, I just can't find it, I don't have the strength or will" ALL of a sudden, it's as if something was poured into me and I understood. *Remember I hated this empty spiritual wilderness I was in, I just HATED IT with a passion. To my surprise I hear myself say "Lord this place, this wilderness, it is the perfect place for me, it was the best choice that you made for me" (yes, I sinned, and it was my fault… But I for some reason needed to learn to trust him, by going thru this). I finished by saying "Lord I just trust you, with all my heart" So that is what God did for me, he removed these two mountains out of my life, when I could not.

I love the scriptures, and it is a record of God's words, words spoken in the past, that "CAN" still apply to us IF God moves upon those words and they become alive to us. Similar to Jesus on Emmaus road. But Hebrews 4:12 is NOT talking about ink on paper. IF the bible is God's only word, then how do you answer this? IF the bible is our answer for our spiritual life we have to then consider, what the scriptures say about the bible. Who had the bible, and who did not have the bible. Then we must ask which of those persons had life, true life, the kind that Jesus promises. I submit our life and truth comes from somewhere else, the scriptures are a road map, a plumb line... IF that is not the case God failed a huge group who never had access to God's word (that is IF the bible is your definition of the word of God). 1). Did any of the masses have access to the bible (scriptures) in the Old Testament? NO! 2). Did any of the masses in the New Testament have access to the bible? NO! *Could the masses read the bible if they had one? NO! 3). How many after the Resurrection, thru the dark ages had access to the bible and could read it? ZERO! 4). How many countries had "LIMITED" access to copies of the O.T. bible, in their own language? Only Israel! 5). When did, the bible become available in English, the language of the masses? The mid 1550's! How many people were literate? Hardly none! 6). When was the printing press created? 1440! * SO basically, the masses (those that could read) have had a bible available to them for the last 500 yrs... * Man, has a history that spans approx. 6000 years minus 500 years... *So, for 5500 years' man was without the word of god...IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME? Further Proof: When you see the term "The Word of God" in the Bible it is either referring to Jesus or the Holy Spirit. "He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called "The Word of God." (Rev 19:12-13) When you see the following terms in scripture, this is what it is referring to: The word = The gospel Examples: (Acts 4:4) Howbeit many of them which heard the word (The gospel) believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand. (Acts: 4:29) And now, Lord, behold their threatening's: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word (The gospel), (Acts 16:6) Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word (The gospel) in Asia, (2nd Timothy 4:2) Preach the word (The gospel); be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. (Hebrews 4:2) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word (The gospel) preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. (It is important to note in the verses above that the Bible had not yet been written yet as the OP has already mentioned, so how could "the word" be referring to the Bible? It's not possible.) The Word of God = Jesus/Spirit (Acts 4:31) And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God (Jesus) with boldness. (Acts 13:5) And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God (Jesus) in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister. (Acts 15:35) Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord (Jesus), with many others also. (Acts 17:13) But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God (Jesus) was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people. (Acts 18:11) And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God (Jesus) among them. There are times in the Bible when "word" means a spoken word, but it is never referring to a written word. This tells us that the Bible is not the word of God and there is nowhere in the Bible that claims that it is. Instead the Bible tells us that "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so, that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17) and that Jesus is "The Word of God." (Rev 19:13) An example of the spoken word can be found in Rev 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." Their testimony would have no doubt been about the gospel of Jesus Christ. After all, the book of Revelation is about the revealing of Jesus Christ (Not some apocalyptic events in the future as Christian Zionist believe). And since the Bible interprets its self, whenever we see the "word of God" written anywhere in the Bible, it has to refer to Jesus. It never refers to to Bible.

It wasn't just "The Way" that ended in the 80's. EVERYTHING came to an end...The Jesus movement was over in the late 70's. Calvary Chapel began not with Chuck Smith, but with the Hippy Preacher "Lonnie Frisbee", the reason that is not stated much by many, is because of the struggle that many claimed Lonnie endured with was homosexuality. Yet God used him mightily. Thousand came to Calvery Chapel Why did all these Ministries even though active dry up? Because the Jesus movement ended and the Spirit lifted. IF that is not true, why did the same occur in 1908 with Seymore, and after the 1940's movement also. The scriptures didn't change, people lived prior to and after the movements, But God lifted His presence. I used to think maybe the answer might be home churches… I wish it was this easy, home churches were real big on the east coast in the Jesus movement, and I always thought it was a step in the right direction... But...It is still the same thing, only on a smaller scale. Men formatting a program, singers singing, prayers praying, leaders leading, ministers preaching.... While the body is sitting in the pew or couches. It all has to change.. Body ministry, and body life, as described in the NT is NOT what we see today in the present church system... We see a glimpse of this kind of change when Jesus came onto the scene and made the religion of the Pharisees irrelevant, when he did his first miracle... The revealing of the true Church (whoever these people are), will make present day Christianity (churchianity/the system) irrelevant too. We find it strange that God uses sinners, why? We were sinners before Jesus was found in us. Look at the O.T full of sinners used of God. Satan was in the garden, in God's presence. God created evil, and the devil. WHY? SO THE FALL COULD HAPPEN. No fall in the garden, no Jesus, no sacrifice, no heavenly supper, no resurrection. Still not convinced? Then answer this, you know this story, but let me rephrase it. God controls everything, even evil. No matter how uncomfortable that makes us it is true. One day David says to God. "I want to build you a house." God says "No!" "But you will have a son in the future who will build me my house". Is this true? Yes it is, and who was this promised son, this son of prophecy, this future son, this spoken word son, this god prophesied son. This son, was Solomon… Now watch God fulfill his own word of promise, His own prophetic word to David. One day David was overlooking his kingdom, and while on his rooftop, he sees a beautiful woman, bathing herself. David says "who is that woman" his servant says that is Bathsheba, the wife of your servant Uriah. David says "get her for me". Then they have relations, (fornicate and commit adultery)…And from this union surrounded by sin and deceit, comes the God promised, prophesied, spoken word, son, named Solomon. So do we have a problem with God using sin to complete His words? Do we have a problem with God creating evil for His purposes? How about Moses, Moses kills a man, so he can meet God at the burning bush. Consider this man that Moses killed, this man was at the right place at the right time. What if this man had chosen to take a different path to work, or had an extra cup of tea, or went to visit the pharaoh that day. No that man had to be just at the right place at the right time to fulfill God's plan and promises. Consider Romans CH 9: Paul sets about with a wonderful description of God's plan and sovereignty. The Jews understand Paul so well they scream "Who then can resist His will, and why does God then blame us". And what does Paul say to them as a reply. Does Paul say "My brothers I am so sorry, you have misunderstood my point about God's sovereignty". NO! Paul retorts, "Who are you to answer back to God".

Now concerning the present. I have never heard of TWI or Mr. Wierwille, until about 3 weeks ago, when I stumbled onto a MP3 of a teaching that seems to have been done in the early 70's. So I am a total novice, and idiot compared to all of you here. So please allow me to pose some thoughts and questions. I listened to the MP3 and loved it. I thought "man who is this guy"... So I googled him and found tons of bad news, some equally good news, and thought "Man could it be". Or maybe it's just a bunch of people attacking his followers (leadership who came later), and the followers were, maybe not even truly born of God. Even if Mr. Wierwille fell of the narrow path, is it possible that the early teachings were right on, and that is why some many of you followed him? Never the less it seems as in all moves of God, when the Spirit lifts "It's all over" (for you can do nothing without me). Then what's left, just the organization, and empty shell of it's former self. Like the ark of the covenant, without God, it is just a wooden box.

I'm new here, and I just wanted to express some things to you, and get some feedback. Possibly an introduction of my life, and some of what I believe I have learned walking with Jesus would kind of give you an idea where I'm coming from. (I know it's long,, forgive me) Then I will move into the topic and how it effects me now, and to my inquiry, concerning TWI. MY STORY: I came from a violent home, (drugs, alcohol, gun shots, being chased with knives, people thrown through picture pane windows), in fact I was born three months early because my father kicked my mother in the stomach. I was born weighing two pounds nine ounces. As early as 7yrs old, I was out on the streets till 3-4am, I was put in three orphanages... One night I remember, my father snuck into our house, he put a loaded pistol in my hand and told me too shoot my sisters and my mother, it was crazy. Through all of this, (which I wouldn't change), I came out a fairly normal kid, I was involved in sports and didn't do drugs, or drink. I thought I was a survivor, wanting only too make it through another day. In 1974 I started too sense a need in my life, an emptiness that I couldn't explain. I knew I had to find God/Jesus, but who was HE. I had no idea where to find HIM, so I went to the local library to find books concerning world religions, God, and the occult. At the library I met an ex-hippie (Gary Osborn) he saw my books and decided to share the message with me. Gary invited me to pray in the back of his V.W. so I did, I remember saying "God forgive me for my sins, and whatever you have for me I want it all". Well at first nothing happened I expected, lightening or something. Gary said, "Just go home and praise God" I said, "What's that, mean" Gary said, "Just thank him" So I did just that. The remaining is sacred to me, before I asked Jesus into my heart, I never heard voices, I never drank, and I never did drugs, but one week after meeting Jesus while in the middle of my last class (during high school) A voice, just as clear, as someone standing next to you, spoke, and as the voice spoke it said to me, "rod tell them about Jesus" I was surprised, but unafraid, I put my hand over my mouth, since I didn't want anyone to think I was talking too myself, I said (to whoever spoke to me) "I don't know what to say" the voice said "don't be afraid, I'll give you the words to say" To this day I don't remember my words, but I spoke to those kids about Jesus and salvation, their mouths just dropped open and then, class was over, I walked out of that room, feeling like I had never felt before. The next day was Saturday; I slept in the living room on an old couch. When I woke it was early and I decided to turn on the TV, to watch my favorite cartoon, the roadrunner. As I sat there watching the TV, I got up and looked outside, everything was so beautiful, (I never appreciated nature, I just wanted to make it thru another day). BUT now it was so pretty, I sat back down on the couch, and as I did I was somewhere else. I was sitting at a long roughhewn table. In front of me was God, the father. I couldn't see him, to my left was Satan, him I could see (he looked like a man only very big) then to my right was Jesus. Three bowls appear, filled with what looked like porridge. Now the father spoke and said Satan dismiss yourself, Satan stood and screamed, then vanished. Three bites were taken out of the bowl. Then all at once I was watching myself from a distance, walking with Jesus up a grassy pathway. Jesus was speaking to me but from a distance I couldn't hear him, I could see myself shaking my head (like I understand) then thru my eyes I saw the house where I had been sleeping. I didn't know what had happened; I'd never experienced anything like that, but I knew two things, I had to find a pastor to talk too, and I KNEW GOD loved me and wanted something from me...my total surrender. My life totally under his control, every second, moment by moment, and I was consumed with this one desire, to live too PLEASE HIM. Let me give you an example: When a friend from school would come over and say, "Hey rod." "Let's go to a show" I'd say, "hold on." Then I'd go in the bathroom and pray, "Lord should I go?" Sometimes the Lord would say "go", sometimes "no" At times He was silent, when this happened I would look inside, to my heart, (Spirit), (see Colossians 3:15) if I had peace I would go, If not, I'd stay home. As I practiced this new desire, (surrender), I noticed the voice of the Lord became more frequent and clearer, (John 10:27). It always had to agree with scripture. The word of the Lord will always agree with the true meaning and / or the true interpretation of scripture). I knew I needed to get a bible. So I went to a bookstore and I got the largest family bible I'd ever seen, with pictures and everything. I was so happy. That night the voice of the lord said, "Read Matthew 5." I had to look in the contents; I didn't know where Matthew was. When I found it and started to read, the words became a ("Word of the Lord to me") they just jumped off the page, they seemed to come alive, and they filled me, with hope, love and peace. Now I knew God loved me, and my sins were gone, I was forgiven... As time passed I grew, sometimes I'd walk into a busy office or building (like a D.O.L) and the Lord would say go sit by that guy. I would strike up a conversation, then say "you don't know me but I'm a Christian and God is going to share with me about your life" I don't mean simple things like "you have the flu" or "Headaches", but deep, personal things that others couldn't know or even guess. People would usually start to cry and ask "how did you know?" I'd say "I didn't but God knew". One day I wanted to go from PA to Atlantic City. There was a fellowship in a brothers house. In the 70's it was legal to hitch hike, I got 5 different rides packed with kids and adults, and as I got into each car I told them "I am a Christian and God is going to bless you for picking me up" God did too, for in that span of an hour and a half, 15-20 people got saved, "born again" in their cars as we drove down the highway. God told me very intimate (secret) details about each of them, as we drove along. They all started to cry, guys and girls, asking me "how did you know those things about me". I said I didn't but God did, and he loves you. When I got to Atlantic City, God said "Rod, when you get to the prayer meeting tonight I want you to give all your money, to Johnnie Diaz". I said "Lord that's all I've got?" (About 300.00) God replied; "you take care of your brothers and sisters in the Lord and I'll take care of you." So upon arriving in Atlantic City, I secretly gave all my money to Johnnie, (this was to cover something for Johnnie that was very personal, so I know he didn't share this with anyone). That night I asked myself "how am I going to get back to work, tomorrow? I didn't have a penny, not even enough for bus fare, and in my spirit I knew I wasn't to hitch hike, but instead the Lord wanted me on the bus. After sleeping that night and leaving the brothers house the next day, (where the meeting had been held), I started walking to the bus station. As I got closer and closer, I was imagining, "is the drivers going to just "know" he's supposed to let me ride for free?" But as I approached the depot, a brother named "Chicky" came out of his house and said "rod I think the Lord wants me to give this to you." It was exactly what I needed for bus fare! This has been a short summary of my life. Years Later: I can only share with you what God has done for me, in hopes that it will cause you to look to him. I met Jesus in the 1970's I had a rare and dramatic conversion (at least that is what Christians tell me). But by the end of 75 I had accidentally disobeyed a spoken word... Let me explain. I had gone to visit a dearly loved Christian brother, he was like a father to me. He and his wife were like my spiritual parents. Anyway, the weekend I went to see him, his wife was gone away to school for 3 weeks. He was so lonely for company, he asked me to go to dinner with him Immediately the Lord spoke (just like hearing someone standing next to you, and speaking to you, but no one else hears it) and the Lord said "do not go". Immediately I told Bob "I can't go" he said "Oh Rod please go with me, I don't want to eat alone". Now this restaurant served liquor, and I thought that was what the Lord was worried about. So, I said "Oh Lord you know me I don't drink"... So off we go to the restaurant. Soon after we get there, a brother who was really struggling with alcohol, came into the restaurant, his name was Augie, he immediately started proclaiming we didn't like him because he was Puerto Rican, we claimed that was silly, and not true. Well this started a fight, I was just a kid, and he took a swing at me, Bob stepped in between and got hit, they were fighting. I couldn't believe it, and couldn't watch it. I started to walk away, but when I did Bob felt betrayed, and said "If you walk, you might as well go all the way home". Oh man that cut like a knife. The next morning, I had to leave, but the Lord spoke and said "tell Bob you forgive him, and give him a hug". But I refused, I said "Lord I can't, it hurts to bad". So, I left for home 3000 miles away. Oh man, when I got home, what a mess I created. My life seemed to fall apart. I felt like Hudson Taylor the missionary to China, who said one day sin and troubles became so apparent, so overwhelming he didn't know what to do. Well that was me, sin and lust in total control, and it just wouldn't let up, nor let me go. I spent (30+) years in this sin and a spiritual wilderness that seemed God had died or left me completely alone, as if He hated me for disobeying Him. (Of course, none of this was true, I know that now). I was crushed, I confessed my sins to God and anyone who would listen. I felt for sure I was on my way to hell. I even fasted for 30 days one time, I wrote men of God, I cried, shouted, pleaded with God, got angry, desperate, I just can't share enough what this did to me. The silence was killing me. But I continued on, working, raising my family, going to school, going to church, tithing, and nothing helped. But never once was I unaware of two things God wanted to change, one was my sin, the other was the fact that I wasn't trusting Him as I went thru this wilderness and sin trial. Then… One day Jesus shows up, His presence so real you though he was going to appear bodily. And then He spoke.... It happened like this. I'm driving, and lusting. I cry out to God, where are you, why aren't you helping me with this! All of a sudden, I hear this statement "why don't you tell me the truth". I say "what truth"…Then my understanding is opened and I SEE! I say OK Lord… "I don't want you to interfere, I love my sin and while I'm troubled about it, I don't want you to interfere" leave my sin alone. Do you know what happened? I somehow forgot all those thoughts about sin and lust, if they came back I would confess this new-found truth and somehow my mind would be distracted again. This went on for a few days, and then I found myself free. This reminds me of a guy named Tommy Williams from the 70's…A brother walks up to Tommy complaining that he can't stop smoking. Tommy says "brother when Jesus is ready for you to stop, then you will. A few days later that brother was so excited, because he found himself free a few days later. NOW what does all of this show me… It shows me we do NOT know truth UNTIL it is revealed to us, and most importantly "Truth is a person", and that person makes us free. Now onto the issue of Trust. I just couldn't do it, I agreed I needed to, but I just couldn't find it, I had no emotional connection to this issue of trust. Oh, I could say the words "I trust you Lord". But not with emotion, not with a full heart. You know what I mean, about an emotional connection, so they just weren't empty words right? Look it's like a man saying to a woman "yea sure I love you" she knows he doesn't mean it. BUT if he says "I LOVE YOU WITH ALL MY HEART" and If I live, and I live without you, then I will surly die. My day begins with you, and it ends with you. Life is nothing without you. That is a statement with emotion behind it, and it's real. This is why God wants us to experience Him. Do you think after the walls of Jericho fell that those men ran home, and said "the walls fell down, big deal"? No, they were telling everyone the mighty works of God and how wonderful He was. So back to my story… It happened similar to the sin issue, I was driving, and was again all alone. I was listening to a CD (Led Zeppelin) it was blaring loud. Once again, I heard Him speak. He said "You still aren't trusting me". I said "I know it Lord, I just can't find it, I don't have the strength or will" ALL of a sudden, it's as if something was poured into me and I understood. *Remember I hated this empty spiritual wilderness I was in, I just HATED IT with a passion. To my surprise I hear myself say "Lord this place, this wilderness, it is the perfect place for me, it was the best choice that you made for me" (yes, I sinned, and it was my fault… But I for some reason needed to learn to trust him, by going thru this). I finished by saying "Lord I just trust you, with all my heart" So that is what God did for me, he removed these two mountains out of my life, when I could not. Some ponderings: I Went To See The Son of God Movie... When All of a Sudden...As I Was Watching Jesus Die... It dawned on me that in all of Paul's writings about: The Spirit, The Flesh, Death, Sin, Lust of the flesh, The 1st Adam, The 2nd Adam, and walking in the Spirit... That these things are all tied to the death of Jesus. It's as if God decided to give up on "The flesh" since the flesh was never able to abide by His commands, nor please Him, and move to the Spirit, as a new creation. Kind of like changing trains, or modes of transportation… That is why Jesus said "You must be born again". Born of Spirit. A new creation. Jesus died; literally killed the vehicle of sin, and death, by dying in the flesh. So when we are born again, we really are NEW creatures. Old things have passed away. This is why that seed remains sin free. Because sin worked through the flesh… Adam was in the flesh, and sinned in the flesh. Sin can't work in the Spirit…It's not the right vehicle (seed) for sin… I got to thinking about the beginning, brothers such as you and I, in the 70’s… I was thinking about contrast. Then and now, what were the less obvious differences, those invisible spiritual things that are under the surface, not seen by the human eye, only discerned, IF you had discernment…Things seemingly small yet so important, unnoticed by many. It was my experience then that I met two sets of circumstances that were totally different. I went to a few churches, before I got invited to go to the east coast. The churches were formal, it involved teaching, and a form of doctrine. If you agreed to the knowledge they tried to impart to you, you might even get to be an elder. You were certainly a member of their church. You might even get an immediate invite for a baptism. There were many other churches in this same city, shoot, there were several just a block away. But they never fellow-shipped together, separated I guess by their doctrines, their denomination. Some back then even claimed not to have a denomination, yet you found out there was no such thing. They still had beliefs that would cause them to separate from you, if you thought differently. How different when I got to the East Coast. Brothers meeting you, knowing nothing about you, not caring what doctrines you believed. They didn’t invite you to their church, so they could impart any certain knowledge to you…It was just Christ and Him crucified. Actually no one even went to church, but the life in these people who met together from 2 or 3 states was unmistakable. The fellowship was around a simple profession of Christ, and simple evidence of “LIFE” streaming from the inside of that other person you had just met. Then of course there was a witness of the spirit, and you knew you had just met a brother. You didn’t know what he believed, about anything, but you knew he believed in that ONE THING that mattered. And the evidence was perceived LIFE…IF that brother didn’t have THAT, man it was witnessing time. It didn’t matter if he was a guy on the street or a pastor… You either had Jesus and his life, or you didn’t. If he didn’t have that life, he wasn’t a brother and their was NO WAY you could fellowship with him, so you knew you just had to tell him the good news. Their was no separation about doctrine, or denomination, what you wore, who you hung with, what you ate, none of that… Just brothers and sisters with LIFE! A simple gospel, and a simple fellowship. Then somewhere in the late 70’s or early 80’s something happened…It was as if someone marched in to the room, and announced a new ownership or new management… Next thing you knew that “LIFE” was gone. The simpleness had been replaced with knowledge, creeds, licenses, and labels. The life became a routine, a set of doctrines, a denomination, a determined set of do this and don’t do that, and your one of US. BUT the life was gone, it just faded and being a Christian became a vocation, like going to work. Clock in, clock out, do this, do that, read, pray, go to church… NO LIFE!!! No fellowship of the spirit… All that replaced with a new fellowship, a fellowship based on a likeness of beliefs, a sameness of doctrine… I wanted to write something to all the Jesus people out there. Something of and by our savior, Jesus. Isn't he wonderful? It's his touch that engulfs a heart in a flame that never burns out. Don't you remember when he touched you? Once touched by Him, you're never the same. His hand ever on us, because we belong to Him, we were in Him all along, and each of us had an appointed time to realize who He was and who we were, by that encounter with Him. Like Paul said: "When it pleased God to reveal Christ in me". That encounter with Him, is everything. Just think about it… We encounter him, when we didn't know anything about Him, when we were in sin, when we didn't go to church, when we didn't even know anything about Him. Maybe you were high, drunk, strung out, all alone, cold, helpless, and hopeless. Maybe even years later, you struggle as I did with sin, but still he was there. When He shows up, His presence so strong, and He brings an understanding to you, He reveals something to you that makes you free. Isn't it true, those of us who have had an encounter with Him, have a testimony that overcomes the world? All the men of the bible "Every one of them" had an encounter with God. It's true in the Old Testament, and it's true in the New Testament. It happened to Moses at the burning bush, it happened to Paul on the road to Damascus. And it happened to US. It happened to Ted Wise while high in his car, it happened to Lonnie while naked. (I'm just using them because everyone knows them). What happened to us after that encounter? We went looking for people like us or we went looking for people to tell about this Jesus we had just encountered. The fellowship was always around a simple profession of Christ, and there was a simple evidence of "LIFE" streaming from the inside of that other Jesus person you had just met, there was a witness of the spirit, and you knew you had just met a brother. You didn't know what he believed, about anything, but you knew he believed in that ONE THING that mattered. And the evidence was perceived LIFE...IF that brother didn't have THAT, man it was witnessing time. It didn't matter if he was a guy on the street or a pastor... You either had Jesus and his life, or you didn't. If he didn't have that life, he wasn't a brother and there was NO WAY you could fellowship with him, so you knew you just had to tell him the good news. There was no separation about doctrine, or denomination, what you wore, who you hung with, what you ate, none of that... Just brothers and sisters with LIFE! A simple gospel and a simple fellowship. Maybe it's time we got back to that. How do you describe this LIFE. As a Christian it’s hard to do. I recall moments in my own life, times of stillness, in the midst of activity or in the quiet of night. The presence of His Spirit was there, sometimes speaking other times He was silent, yet the undeniable presence of His Spirit was so real. You couldn’t describe it too anyone else, sometimes he was so near, almost physical, at other times He was, just felt, deep in your heart. I could at times think, and He would answer. Sometimes the answer was spoken, and at other times it was a still small voice in my heart. Sometimes I would see a person, and while looking at them, I knew about them. I recall the passion to tell others about him at any given moment, looking for such an occasion never caring where I was, or who was nearby. Constantly His Love moved over me in waves and yet it abode, never departing. I would wake up in the middle of the night and He was there, like a mother hen. I remember the love for others that was not my own. I remember feeling, and being, separate from the world yet still in its midst. I recall not worrying about the kind of car I drove, or the condition of my clothes, knowing that He was fully aware of all these things. I recall being invited out for dinner with brothers, and thinking (silently between myself and God), “Lord I don’t have any money, but I’m hungry” and then someone would say “hey rod I’ll buy ok?” Do you have days like this? Do you remember days like this from your past? I believe this is something no one can take from us. This is why WE MUST EXPERIENCE GOD You see if you experience HIM then, Bible revelation can be added to you. But if you don’t experience HIM first then Bible knowledge is just a compilation of facts, they are true, but they don’t have any place of reference, without HIM. 2).Most of my life, at least as far back as I can remember I’ve had a desire and love for God/Jesus. As I’ve grown older, I’ve seen many things in “Christendom”, I’ve seen communes (come and go in failure). I’ve seen myself and other brothers walk in their own ways (you might call it backsliding). I’ve been hurt by supposed brothers in Christ, I’ve seen TV preachers act cocky, and ridiculous, I’ve seen people chase tithes and money, I’ve seen people in big churches (faithful tithers) go without help while in need, I’ve seen people chase their own kingdom and building programs. I’ve seen names in lights (but not Jesus name). I’ve seen people destroyed by the shepherding movement. I’ve seen men of god after devoting their lives to “the ministry” destroyed after a single mistake, instead of forgiven. On and on I could go… So does any of the above remind you of the book of Acts or the first group of believers? 3).The first century church in the New Testament turned the world upside down in a short time NOT because of their words alone but because of the LIFE residing IN them. This was a spirit thing, they had and were living LIFE like Jesus 24/7 every moment of each day, a life of submission, pleasing the father, a life defined by others as “seeing they had been with Jesus”. 4). A Christian historian tells a true story about a peasant in the 1600’s living under the rule of the Catholic Church. The peasant is working the field and a cardinal and his procession go by, as they approach the cardinal speaks to the peasant, about a new edict from Rome. The cardinal quotes a verse of scripture; the peasant replies that the cardinal quoted the verse incorrectly. The cardinal says to the peasant “How would you know, being you are unlearned and illiterate?” The peasant replies: “because the spirit IN ME said you quoted it wrong”! How true this is, if we only have the book and don’t hear that still small voice on the inside, from the throne of our heart the center of HIS kingdom! Then I fear we miss the most important piece of intimacy, yet HIS Word and HIS scriptures work together.