OperaBuff

Yep!.....that's right.

Hence, the exodus from twi. When many were coming of age that ONE'S OWN FAMILY MATTERED.....kids, school, activities,

pictures, awards, memories, family vacations, etc.....the pushback began in earnest. Nothing like a case of reality

to smack one upside the head.

It occurs to me that VP and his family never wanted for anything during TWI years, and never did anything on the cheap for themselves. As for the rest of us, it was beater cars, living in cheap rentals, blowing our nose with toilet paper to save money on kleenex, recycled coffee grounds, provide TWI with free labor, and always abundantly share what little money we had. VP saw to it that he had all the power he could ever need to have a full and abundant life.

Hey, there was a class about that, wasn't there?!

The purpose of PFAL was to funnel all the ministry power to VP, in order to give VP a very abundant life.

Rather ballsy of him to name that class after his own personal goals in life.

From the Bellini opera La Sonnambula, performed in recital by Maria Callas.

Twinky, thank you for sharing this. I've done similar acts of cleansing, probably many of us have. It's very much like suffering the death of a loved one. At least it was for me. We grieve, then somehow, the seemingly impossible happens and we eventually heal. The truly good memories remain.

I've learned that, for me, I need to guard against false memory; don't allow time to play tricks upon my good nature and turn bad experiences of the past into fake good memories today. Screw that noise.

If the other country you are in is this one (US) please PM, maybe we are close and could meet up! That would rock.

Duplicate.

"The Word" was this all-consuming, nebulous, mumbo-jumbo of wayspeak wherein twi attempted to usurp the christian mantle. But really, what should we have expected from an unchecked and unaccountable narcissist? After all, the credibility factor of twi was right there in front of us when we looked at the "trustees"........wierwille's brother, harry, and quiet supporter, ermal.

Wierwille was in his childhood world....and no one, really, was a peer. His 'revelations' had no witnesses....his India-fame stories had no challengers. His plagairist research, closely-guarded from public scrutiny, had little opposition. And, unrestrained....wierwille simply waxed worse and worse each year. More booze. More lying. More sexual predation.

Even to this day, wierwille defenders come forward to rationalize his personal life by saying.....THEY DON'T CARE -- HE TAUGHT THE WORD.

The indoctrination, for them, is complete. Brain shuts down. Scriptures irrelevant. Case closed.

Ideology or Idolatry? For them, wierwille is synonymous with 'the word.'

The hoax, as you call it, is relatively simple to understand. It's all about getting people to jump to conclusions, waiting for them to actually jump, then making sure they don't jump back. That's the crux of it.

When you get people to jump to conclusions for you once, it's relatively easy to get them to jump for you again. So, I think that's what the various snow stories and the audible voice of God story were all about -- irresistible lures to get people to jump to that all-important first conclusion. Once you get people jumping around for you like jumping beans, the sky's the limit.

God bless you, I love you, you're the best jumpers a guy could ever want. Nice tits.

(I say it's relatively simple to understand, which it is; but it took me about 20 years to finally figure it out.)

48 years ago today, the "British Invasion" began when The Beatles appeared on The Ed Sullivan Show Sunday night,

February 9, 1964, launching their first American tour and changing the music scene forever.

The Beatles performed 5 songs that night: "All My Loving," "Till There Was You," "She Loves You," "I Wanna Hold Your Hand,"

And "I Saw Her Standing There."

I remember watching this with my parents on that Sunday night, I was in third grade and

instantly fell in love with them and their music. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!

I remember watching them too! Such excitement was in the air. That summer my friends and I got Beatle wigs and wore them while riding our bikes, screaming and singing and laughing the whole time.

Wondering if any of you have had personal experience with the group called Bible Study Fellowship (BSF) International. Recently I attended a meeting and it seemed ok to me, but I'd be interested in hearing about any of your experiences, good or bad.

IMO.....the camp gunnison idea was BONEHEADED from the start. Okay, maybe it has investment value....I understand that. But how many thousands of hours of labor does it take, and new construction, and maintenance going into that place constantly? Albeit, the in-house corps labor is cheap....otherwise, this revamped "sleepy hollow campground" would be a major money pit.

Does "a church organization" NEED an isolated, over-the-mountain-pass, campus to train its way corps? Again, what's the strategy in endangering corps to travel snow-packed mountain roads at relocation times?

The cynical side of me can only see three possible reasons for buying "Sleepy Hollow" in the first place: 1) The pride of owning real estate on the Gunnison River, 2) Grasping a bit of the Rockies and the nearby elk hunting possibilities, and 3) Having a secluded cabin spot far, far away with corps women stopping by.

You have stirred another TWI memory from my buried stash. Gee, thanks! This one's not too bad though.

I remember hearing VP tell the story of how he came to purchase the Gunnison property. Seems he was out hunting somewhere and came upon the fellow who owned the property. They got to talking, and somehow came to a sale agreement, closing the deal with a manly handshake. The seller had one stipulation, however. He insisted that a grotto that he had built for his late wife be allowed to remain standing. It was one of those Catholic madonna-in-a-half-shell grotto things, or some such. I was quite the VP devotee at the time, and I remember thinking "oh no, he compromised on God's Word, permitting Satan to keep that idolatrous statue on TWI property, what's he doing that for?" So if TWI is facing hard times at Camp Gunnison today, perhaps it's due to the compromising nature of its origin as TWI property.

"You cannot compromise on God and His Word! The moment you compromise one iota, you'll burn!" Care to guess who yelled that into a microphone one Sunday night?

VP developed a habit of exempting himself from his own rules and regulations.

I think these things speak for themselves....yet....people still stay and support this corrupt organization by giving them 10% and more of their income?

I wonder if Craig is giving them 10% of his income today?

I wonder if God is spitting in his direction?

I wonder where the heck he got the idea that God spits? It's not biblical.

I'm in a wondering mood today, I guess..

Thanks geisha. It really is true what's been said in this thread; I can see right through this guy.

And I was trying to remember where I'd seen Driscoll's hair style before. Then it hit me.

Being reproved for unmanly habits by a guy with dippitydoo in his hair and a weak grasp of rhetorical devices? I trow not.

Sheeesh. Good for Andrew getting away from there, and good for him seeking a counselor to talk with and help clarify his mind. The part that creeps me out the most in this sucker parade called Mars Hill is the voyeuristic angle; church officials wanting a young man to state in writing all of his sexual experiences. That's truly a sick request. If some other unfortunate young man were to honor that sick request and submit such a statement, he should include photographs and ask for extra credit.

Link here.

Cool car. Better than a twig hopper...

with my apologies, i am only posting and reading because i need a moment away from the real hell i'm going through

I've forgotten how to type a hug, so this will have to do.

{{excathedra}}

This is a hug with two kisses on the cheek, one before the hug and one after.

*{{excathedra}}*

I enjoyed spending considerable time studying this last year, following our discussion on the thread titled The King's English.

I recall reading about it outside of Bullinger and TWI, but can't lay my hands on where or what it was. I'll attempt to retrace my steps and hopefully find it for you. It generally tracked with Bullinger, and had some vivid examples which helped my understanding. The vast majority of what I found was Bullinger and TWI.

Bishop Pillai spoke of Oriental thought on the subject of Satan and permission that I think relates to the understanding of the idiom of permission. While teaching from Luke 22:31-32, Pillai said Oriental people believe the devil has no power over you unless he gets the power from God; that the devil has to go to God to get permission to attack one of God's children.

It's a children's song.

Someone pointed out once that a number of things were all a part of treating twi'ers like

children and vpw as the sole father-figure.

Is there a thread on this topic? It's so true, and it's vital to understand the scope of the manipulation that was used. If one doesn't understand the scope of the manipulation used, one can't identify it or break completely free from it. It will always be there in your mind, working its work.

One of my last fellowship meetings was appalling in this aspect, the songs they chose to sing were almost all children's songs even though the attendees were adult. It would come as news, I suppose, to that fellowship coordinator that one can be an adult, act like an adult, sing like an adult, and still be a child of God. Maybe even a better one!

Even more annoying than the singing of childish songs was the baby talk at that fellowship, how Daddy will take pweshus care of his snuggum widdle children wif power and give us pweshus hugs and bwess us weal big. ooooooohh, wub u!!

Well....it does make one wonder who walks via the spirit of God and the limits of said revelation. After all,

wierwille was highly touted in receiving an abundance of revelation......yet, he picked martindale as next

twi-president. And, how did that work out?

Bingo! We have a bingo!

Wierwille didn't pick Martindale to carry on, he picked him to cover up. But even that didn't work out, revelation or no.

I never took the AC, but like everyone else I assumed it was two weeks of powerful teachings, chock full of deep spiritual insight. I'm rather surprised to read the comments in this thread that it really wasn't. Though, I suppose i shouldn't be surprised. Next you'll be telling me those green and white rectangular AC grad name tags held no special powers.

"God told me to be an idiot."

That's what my ears hear every time someone says to me, "God told me that...." whatever. I just think, oh well, I'm talking to another idiot today.

It's like a spiritual version of the Jerry Springer Show. But instead of watching feuding women get up and chase each other around the chairs on stage, you can watch an idiot chase her common sense out the door.

You might want to try it next time it happens to you, save yourself a lot of wasted time and unnecessary heartache.

Is this on topic? I don't care, I live under grace you know.

Once again......as always, the youth are highly prized.

Re-name it, re-package it, dress it up, dress it down,

put a uniform on him, put a sign in her hands, pitch a tent,

occupy space, military enlistment, religious recruitment,

schemes and dreams, scams and scums, rightly or wrongly,

......the youth are always targeted.

Ours is a youth-based culture today. Growing up to wise maturity is not the solid base and goal of our culture anymore. It's all about being and acting young and hip, having no wrinkles and skinny bodies and doing anything and everything to attain self-satisfaction. I agree with what you are saying, but I think it's a lot worse than what you state. The youth are being targeted; they are also being idolized and manipulated to the detriment of our culture as a whole.

I've got a deal for whomever wrote that paean of praise to Dr Wierwille. I'll let stand every word of your work, if you write a paean of praise of equal length and heart for the 17-year-old girl in my former twig fellowship whom Dr Wierwille raped on his motor coach in 1975. Her name is Mary T. If you would like to talk with her first, let me know and I'll see if she's interested in being interviewed.

Do we have a deal?

His Believers' Bible Camp was ordaining people as if ordinations were boxes of Crackerjack for a while, until some people he ordained went off and made fools of themselves AND of Believers' Bible Camp. Then, all of a sudden "the Holy Spirit" got real picky about who He let Sides ordain, and Believers' Bible Camp changed its name to Liberating Ministries for Christ International (WHY! OH, WHY! Does every podunk spin-off of TWI call itself INTERNATIONAL!?! It's like Wierwille calling himself DOCTOR!)

I'm not sure, but using the word 'international' in your corporate name is probably a legal strategy, having to do with your tax status and/or what you as a business can claim as expenses.

Happy Household Holiday? WTF? I'd not heard that one during my two-year TWI stint. They took the false date of Christ's birth and made it a TWI celebration?

I swear, some of these things I hear I just don't believe people actually swallowed. But they did, apparently. At least for a while. Until the novocain wore off.

I'm almost afraid to ask what 'ho ho relo' means..

Merry Stressmas is more like it. It's no holiday if it causes an increase in the suicide rate, and drives people with little money into further debt. Christmas does both of those things each and every year. Someone link that to the glory of the birth of Jesus Christ for me, please.

This kind of fear seems to be something one can only have towards God. Fear God, meaning have a sense of awe and a healthy respect for the one spirit who created the heavens and the earth; don't forget about Him as you go about your business, that He is alive and well and still on the throne, and that He ain't done with this world yet.

One can't have that sense for any other person, place or thing. There may even be a small sense of being afraid of God too, rather like having a healthy respect for electricity. If electricity were my Father, I would have a sense of awe and a healthy respect for electricity, but I'd still be careful not to break its laws and rules for fear of being electrocuted.

One interesting thing to me describing the fruit of TWI is all of the accounts of how people have to "rebuild" their lives after leaving. Yes, I've experienced this as well. The question that I have for people to ponder is that if TWI is as they profess the greatest "household of believers" since the first century, why would deciding to fellowship with another group of Christians as opposed to TWI cause such trauma? Why the need to rebuild from the ground up again?

I mean compare this to the vast majority of other Christians in the world, Christian organizations, churces, etc. It is very common to run into a friend or neighbor who has switched churches. There doesn't need to be some horrible reason for it other than "it fit them better". Also, to run into scandal with churches is fairly common as well. Some churches collapse over it, some split, some move on with new leaders. Never anywhere do you find the kind of whitewashing of the image of the fallen like in TWI, or all of the drama surrounding it.

This is nothing more than the fruit of a damaging cult. This fruit shares nothing in common with mainstream Christianity, but shares everything in common with other destructuve cults. People leaving are devestated, don't know how to care for themselves, don't know how to fellowship with other Christians, hold a normal job, pursue a career, make friends like normal people. The impact of TWI and cults like this is pervasive.

Jesus taught us to know people by their fruit. TWI you can know by their fruit. Damaged and bruised fruit.

The damage TWI inflicted upon people still reverberates. Some cannot conduct even the simplest of life's transactions without seeing God taking care of them or Satan attacking them. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, you know..

I was like that at first. I remember so clearly one afternoon while driving my car in Cleveland, where I had moved after leaving TWI. I had to pull over to the side of the busy city street and park because I suddenly did not know where I was. Not just what street I was on, I did not know what city or state I was in! I sat there behind the wheel and started to weep, honestly not being able to remember where I was. That was scary. I'd moved so many times during my TWI days, been to so many different cities, different neighborhoods, different houses and apartments, and it all came crashing down on me that day. After I stopped weeping, I decided to light up a joint and clear my mind. One of my ensuing thoughts was hey, you don't need to know where you are, what difference does it make where you are, it's still the Word. So you see, joining TWI can lead to so many wonderful experiences..