Linda Z

We've got some great ones around here!

Enjoy your day with your kids, dads. And if you can't be with them today, enjoy the knowledge that you brought some wonderful little (and some big now!) people into the world.

Love,

Linda

Are we the only F5s who can sit up to a computer and type???

Nice to see ya, by the way. Hope you're well.

I wonder if any of us are still in twi. I heard John B and his wife still are, but don't know of anyone else who is.

I'll e-mail you, too, but I was sorta hoping we might bring more of us out of the woodwork. We do have some funny stories to share.

Remember when we were on our way to Gunnison and stopped in Emporia and Pat S. talked our way into going out for a movie and pizza while the Emporia Corps were in some long class?

Remember refurbishing the Family Corner? Wonder if any of our hard (but fun) work got saved when the place got sold.

C'mon F5...kick those dang walkers outa the way and come in here and say something.

Linda Z

I sorta derailed myself, so now that I have a little more time I?ll say what I was going to say when I went off the track. I intended to answer some of your questions, Hope, but I ran out of time.

I honestly didn?t give a hoot about likemindedness and unity and all that when I got into twi. I wasn?t looking for a group to belong to; in fact, I got involved in spite of the fact that twi was a group.

I didn?t jump right into a spin-off group and still haven?t, 13 years after leaving. I had my own reasons for leaving twi, over things I?d seen for myself. I didn?t feel I needed JAL to show me the way out or RD or any former leader from twi who was traveling around the country sounding the alarm (nothing against any of them, but I?d seen enough to know I was outa there). I needed time to sort things out?just God and me?and I took it. I might have been right or wrong about them, but I felt like these guys were gathering a following, and I wanted none of that.

Lest I sound like I think I was so flippin? smart, let me tell you I did some stupid stuff, too, out of a desire to make up for the years I?d lived like a nun and sat through meeting after meeting. But it had nothin? to do with any spin-offs. J

I did hang out for a while with the local excommunicated Corps and others who?d bailed, but they weren?t yet organized into any particular group. I starting seeing signs of SOSDD (same old $hit, different day): followers and an exalted local leader--the former following the latter so closely that if he?d stopped suddenly they?d have quickly found themselves in a place where the sun doesn?t shine. (I think a lot of those people are in Geer?s group today.)

Hope asked, ?Are we just a bunch of people who needed to learn to think for ourselves? Or will we forever be attracted to organizations that encourage a ?cult mentality???

I think the so-called ?cult mentality? is an inside thing, not an outside thing. Yes, if a group makes high demands, whether it?s the PTA, twi or the NRA, and if one has the tendency to get into it gung-ho, then one will exhibit that type of mentality.

If that kind of whole-hog behavior stems from an outside influence, like twi, then how could so many people stay on the fringes of it through the years, yet maintain a limited degree of involvement? There were many like that. They took the classes, they came to fellowships, but they didn?t make it their whole life. By the same token, I?ll bet there were lots of people in the PTA who didn?t get as deeply involved as you did. That?s not a criticism. Being willing to commit to something and give to and work for what you believe is important is a good character trait, as Grizz has said so well. But sometimes our strongest characteristics are those that come around and bite us in the butt.

Examples:

I?m a careful editor. Sometimes I?m so intent doing a good job that I lose sight of the big picture and become nitpicky. Not because I?m generally a nitpicky person, but in my enthusiasm to do a good job, I go past doing my best and head right into overboard!

I?ve seen this in people who are really into fitness. It goes beyond healthy and becomes obsessive.

I could think of a dozen other examples.

As Grizz said, A lot of us had hearts to get involved and help and work hard to get things done. I think that?s why you got so involved in twi and the PTA. There?s got to be a middle ground where a person can be enthusiastic and devoted/committed to something without ending up letting that something dominate life.

?I'm not suggesting that EVERY group with a common goal is a cult. What I'm trying to say is do WE, survivors of a cult, MAKE these organizations cult-like because of our TWI involvement? Do we rely on them the way we relied on TWI in so many ways??

I don?t think so. I think that wherever we go, there we are. I think we made twi a cult to the degree that we relinquished ourselves to it. Was the organization more than happy to accommodate us? Sure.

We can?t change the fact that there are plenty of groups out there that are more than eager to take advantage of pure-hearted, hard-working, devoted types like many of us are. Who could blame them? Where are you going to find such great people who will volunteer and volunteer and give and give? I watched it happen to a relative in the Baptist Church. She?s a doer and a giver and she just did and gave and did and gave until she was burnt out and didn?t know what had hit her.

TWI wasn?t made up of a bunch of soap-opera-watching, bon-bon-popping sluggards who were too lazy to do much more than put new batteries in the TV remote. But I believe we, even being those types of people Grizz described, can learn when to put on the brakes when we?re going too far.

I also believe that as long as we think, ?THEY took my individuality and THEY made me do this or that and THEY stole my years, then WE haven?t yet found the brake pedal. It?s in US. There?s no organization I?ve ever seen that won?t suck you dry if you put yourself in the position for that to happen. Not because all groups are evil, but because when they finally find people who will get off their duffs and care enough to do something, they will gladly receive what those people have to give. They usually won?t say, ?You?re giving too much. Stop. Your work is too good. Please stop.? J

(Sorry this was so long, but I was trying to respond to several of Hope?s posts at once.)

Linda

Hope asked, "... do WE, survivors of a cult, MAKE these organizations cult-like because of our TWI involvement?"

This question assumes that peoples' following the pack, letting an organization dictate to them, allowing its "leaders" to manipulate them, etc., started with twi. I contend that it didn't.

I instead think twi became a "cult" to people to the degree they were vulnerable to handing the reins of their horse over to another person/group.

I still say twi was most "cult-like" to those who were inclined to follow the pack unquestioningly, allow an organization to tell them what to do and let so-called leaders manipulate them.

That's not a slam against anyone. I think most all of us were influenced by the twi organization and its "leaders" to some degree. I just think some of us tended to relinquish control of their lives and decisions more than others.

I still don't like the use of the word "cult" because it's too loaded--loaded with emotion and loaded with so many shades of meaning that it loses meaning and loaded with pseudo-psychological definitions from people who encourage thinking that, to my mind, is just as "cult-like" as any alleged cult members'.

I recently read an article by a prof from a local university, challenging a lot of the "cult" cliches. He suggested the use of a different term: "high-demand religion." That, to me, communicates what twi was (and is) a whole lot better than a word whose meaning is so subjective. To me it says clearly what was wrong with twi, without all the excess pseudo-psych baggage. I like it.

Linda Z