Patrick and Sarah

God first

Beloved friends

God loves us my dear friends

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Be-In

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

Int-resting Roy

Patrick

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Well, we'll figure out the rest. Hallelujah!

I googled it.......

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Wow Socks,

You put in a way I had not thought of.

The continued effort points to a process - growth, progress. If we make progress towards that change of form, it's going to be evident. When metamorphosis occurs it's going to be in the fabric of who we are. We continue to respond to life, be who we are, learn, decide, choose, etc. We're actually going to be changing to be more like that spirit of Christ that "dwells" in each of us.

We become the Ideal version that we emagine to be Christ. If we keep the vision in our mind we become what we desire to be. We live with this newness of life and find it to be good or not good. If it is not good then we change the vision, till we find what truly satisfies. Trial and error. Cause and effect. The perfecting of soul................high mindedness? Maybe, but what else is there to do in life but endeavour to be the best that we can be? I like to say "be careful and have fun". It is on our bullitain board in the living room......."life is supposed to be fun".

That produces a very "elite" individual - by nature we're the only legitimate version of ourselves there is. By tranforming by the renewing of our mind we become more of the nature of Christ, more like God intends for each person.

It's "elite" whether we like it or not. It's progress, growth, improvement, produced by God's interaction and our actions.

Well said.

My highest view is that love is the highest attainable goal in the present world. To not love, is to live less then I desire. This is my elite self. My high mindedness.

Jesus Christ said that "the greatest among you will be the servant of all"

Jesus Christ washed his desiples feet.

Jesus Christ gave his life for all. This is our example, that we too should give our lives, not in death but as living sacrifices. Elite. Chosen to serve as cman said.

I think there are negative implications to the idea of an "elitism" but they're probably the ones we bring to the changes we aspire to. Those negative attitudes must be counter productive to the process, when I think about it. ?

I think we keep going deeper and deeper into the idealism that we aspire to. When we have transended to one place, there is a new place to progress to further.

It is important to enjoy the present state though. The fullness of all that God is, has been given to us in the form of that Spirit that is in us, and that we daily commune with.

Seek ye first the kindom of God, and all things will come natural after that.

As we daily seek the Spiritual, we get to enjoy all the fruit of life that goes along with it. The love, the Joy, the Peace, the patience, the kindness, the goodness, the faith , the gentleness, and the self-controle.

That Jesus sure was an elite human.

I can do all things through Christ who stregthens me.

Ever known anyone who believed that?

We present ourselves as living sacrifices.

Which is holy and acceptable.

Not being conformed to this world-but another.

To prove to ourselves that it is not ourselves.

Verse three is mighty plain.

Question is, how are we to think of ourselves?

Think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

And the adventure to see it, cause faith has substance, something real.

Being 'elite' or gifted, in a group, is not of ourselves.

More closely because of the group and it's contributions.

And that title, or whatever you want to call it.

Does not put anyone above anyone else.

Nor does it say that anyone else has something you don't.

As far as the word elite or related words.

Other people consider some elite, but not to say they have something others don't.

Together we make a difference.

Alone will not affect anyone but the one alone.

Very nice cman,

Thank you.

Without renewed mind being powered by God, it's just mind games.

Hi cman,

Renewed mind is volition with or without a faith in God.

It is simply deciding what you are going to live by. You set the rules. You make up your mind as to what the truth is, that is going to enable you overcome the "works of the flesh that lead to death".

Of course we are talking about renewing the mind to "The Spirit", which is God. God is Spirit.

The Spirit part of you is the God part of you.

The God Part of you, is the Spirit within.

There is a battlefield in the mind, and you set the rules and decide the outcome.

Does that sound like elitism?

I believe that every human being, has the same God given potential, to find the true life that comes through tapping into the Spirit of Christ.

For a 'christian' to think of being 'elite' is not Christ.

Or anyone else for that matter. Any person spiritually speaking.

cman,

I agree with you here.

Which is being carnally minded.

I'm sorry could you explain this comment to me. "Race" as in an athletic competition, or "race" as in nationality, or something else?

Race consciousness is the consciousness that any group holds. Paul came from a specific religious way of thinking.....his conciousness of what sin was, was built on the Law of moses, his sectarian upbringing, and his conversion to Christianity. All these things where contributors to his Ideal of what the 'flesh' was, as opposed to the Spirit.

Romans 7:9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Through the Law is the knowlege of sin........missing the mark of the law that nobody could live up to.

Romans 7:18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul was teaching renewed mind.

Paul was teaching to walk accoring to the good that was "his desire".

Paul was teaching that to walk anything less then what the Spirit dictated was to walk in death.

I was a Christian for the benefits. The life. The peace.

I retain Paul's teaching on renewed mind for the benefits.

To be carnally minded is death, but to be Spiritual minded is life and peace.

HHHMmmmm,

Was "the renewed mind is the key to power" part of TWI teachings?

I think that one way of looking at Christian belief is the belief that Christians are an elite, but an elite that anyone can join. Sure, some Christians look down on the "unbelievers" or even the "differently-believing" as outside their special circle, as inferior or lacking in some way, but they generally believe that anyone can join their club, anyone can be a Christian. One is not barred by birth or finances or intelligence from being in the elite.

Hi Oakspear,

I've learned a lot since starting this thread.

If you want to be a in the Christian elite or any sectarian group, you have to submit to their rules of conduct to be approved. This is the consciousness of the group. There is also a subtle pecking order, but that is in all orginizations. Although one might not be "barred" from an elitist group because of any certain thing, they often feel the effects of not being quite like the rest. Kind of reminds me of a Rush song.........

Subdivisions ---

In the high school halls

In the shopping malls

Conform or be cast out

Subdivisions ---

In the basement bars

In the backs of cars

Be cool or be cast out

I think that most religions have this mindset, or even the non-religious, not just Christians.

Is there anything wrong with believing oneself to be part of an elite? Probably not, unless the majority begins to use their elitism to oppress the minority or squeeze them out somehow.

The diference between religious based elitism and professional or skill based elitism, is that the religious based only makes sense within the context of the belief system and not in the larger world.

There really is nothing wrong with being part of an elitist group, but it has it's effect on how we live our lives. We miss our chances to love all because we have our criteria.

God is love, and God loves all, and so should we.

What is it that holds us back?

Our criteria.

Our own complexes.

Fear.

Disharmony, and separation.

If God is love and We have fellowship with God, then we should walk with the same love that God has for all. I believe that we can feel this harmony and that we can sense when we are out of this harmony.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

The carnal mind that Paul talked of is "race consciousness". The carnal mind is the mind that has not renewed itself to the spiritual reality, that will bring about real abundant life, and peace.

The world is separated because people have made it that way. To God the world is NOT separated. The world is one united whole, and when we see it as such, we see it as God sees it. These "visions of grandeur" have a powerful effect on how we 'feel' in every aspect of life. If we feel connected to every other human being, we tend to 'feel the love', that is so often missing.

The effect of elitism is always separation.

thank you PatrickandSarah i look forward to hearing what you have to say!!!!!

Hi nandon,

I have experience with one of the largest cults in the US back in the 80's and then one of the smallest cults in the us, back in the 90s.

From the 80's TWI came some Corp. grads who felt that they had to be delivered from the devil in order to continue their ministries of miricles. They can talk extensivly about their deliverences, and where God has brought them as ministers for the Lord Jesus Christ.

I had som false expectations back in the 90's where I actually expected to find a good fellowship in one of these groups. I went through years of being dissatisfied as I "worked out my own salvation", so I am thankful for the time spent.

Basically they are harmless. I found that the leader was not what I had thought he was. I was looking for friendship and fellowship and found 'doctrine to be over love' rather then the other way around. My soul was hurt from the whole experience. I'm still healing. I see better now and realize what my false expectations where.

Here is the problem I had with the whole thing. I knew I had some issues, but had a hard time thinking I had these demons, that hey could so easily catagorize and cast out. My skepticism showed, and I was never really fully excepted, or so I fealt. I did not fit in with the program, so we where distanced for years, while living in the same, rather small town.

The distance actaually did me some good, because I worked out the issues of my false expectations.

If you are looking for love, the diliverance ministries are not where it is at. They think themselves to have this deliverance ministry and by golly they will deliver you, and expect your support so they can continue to deliver more people. You will be included on the mailing list and thank you for your support.

It is hard to love and get to know people if they think that you have some demons. It is not real in that respect. They actually do attempt to do some good by delving into your past.........there is some profit to this, but the scars will take a lot more then what they are offering.

First and formost you must know that you are loved by God. "God loves you" is the first premise of Christianity. "For God so loved the world....."

The dualism involved in God against the devil is what keeps these enchantments strong. A belief is a powerful thing. If you believe that you have a devil, it will manifest in the way you expect.

God is love...this is the one power.....the rest is man made imaginations.

What man imagines in the spiritual, has powerful influence on his outlook on life.

Dualism is what fuels all of the hoopla of casting out devils.

Renewed mind is the streangth to overcome. Renewed mind to love. As God loves, so do I. That is called an affirmation. An affirmation is part of the renewed mind and has to do with your self talk. If your self talk is ,"I have a devil" you are seeing seperation rather then oneness with God. This sepperation is a lie that you believe. You have to erradicate it by changing your mind and putting a more profitable beleif in it's place. God is love, and God is me. As God loves, so do I.

Patrick

that kind of sounds like it.

they are saying its more about things in your past. It's about casting out spirits, and they say we all have them, and we need to rid ourselves of them.

it sounds more like therapy to me,

im supposed to write down anything in my past that i can remember that bothered me, then talk about them in the "healing and deliverence" session, then god will show me what spirits are operating in me (because the situations that bothered me in the past are how the spirits moved in)

what the heck am i getting myself into..

I only have a few seconds and this really needs some in depth explination.

I know of two ministries that are prodegies if TWI.....though they say they are healed from that. One has been mentioned and the other is I was involved with for a few years.......and it was really a drag.

You don't need a minister to cast demons out of you.........Bottom line.

Glad you asked and I'll add more when I have more time.

I am stating what the bible states, is the bible also elitist?

I believe that much of the Bible is elitist. Those who wrote it where writing from there religious perspective.

 maybe?  What is your definition of these verses?  We are talking about the bible here, are we not?  Is this not the Doctrinal forum, it isn't the philosphy of man forum, the doctrine of the bible is the subject here right?

"This forum is for the discussion of religious/spiritual doctrinal beliefs. Since this site is not a religious site, keep all doctrinal discussions in here."

This is pretty much the only place I post on this site. My intrest here is spiritual.

The topic of this thread is religion in general, but most of us have strong ties to Christianity, so it is understandable that the religion of Christianity, whould dominate the thread.

I can't see any other way around it, Jesus Christ is the fulcrum of the bible, and he follows us thru to Revelations, he is there too, I cannot dismiss him as he is integral to God, the written word, and those who worship Him.  I do see the bible demands the acknowledgement of Christ from cover to cover.

You can only see what you can see...............A lot of what you are saying here is because of certain doctrinal influences. It is easy to disagree with a statement like "the Bible demands the acknowlegement of Christ form cover to cover". Your view of Bible is not the same as everyones. Your view of the Bible is sectarian even within Christianity. The original topic here is not to acknowlege or dismiss the Bible.

What is it that you are stating, I have stated plainly my position, not one of you who've dissagreed with me has offered up any sort of statement as to why or explained your position, but you shoot mine down so easily.  I might say you are being elitist by not sharing your side of the discussion.

That is the point; We, with our religious posotions, are all elitists.

Patrick

Patrick,

I never said that nor intimated that nor even think that, funny how you read that into the scripture I posted.  Do you see me mention salvation or heaven or hell in any of my posts concerning the scriptures in Philippians?

but now I see,

Could well be that I read something into your posts that you where not saying. My appologies.

I do think that acknowledging Christ is the key to being in harmony with God.

I do think who has eternal life is not up to me or you or anyone else but God.

I don't think the verses I posted are addressing who gets to have eternal life.

You might be here to propound your doctrine, ok, then be straightforward about it.

Propound, repound, try um out, see how they fly......sure. I'm here because I enjoy talking theology with people that have a similar back ground. I tend to grow more with some dialogue.......thanks for yours.

You also seem kind of passive aggressive with those of us who have commented on your assertions and have given comments and feedback. You say you're not arguing scripture, but you are, you say you are not attacking posters, but you're disparaging them, even when they agree with you....I don't get it??  What do you want?

I'm dialoguing..................can't help the passive agressive thing; I had not noticed it.

As for arguing scripture, I have spent a lot of time arguing scripture over the internet...........I'm not. I was giving some alternatives to what I thought you where saying. Alternatives are nice even if I missunderstood you.

This is some hostile thread....

"The seperation of himanity through riligion" tends to bring out hostility. We have all been burned by religion in one way or another and I find a good way to heal is to dialogue.

James 5:16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Ok, I'll bite.  What is your interpretation of those verses, or is it that you choose to ignore them or discount them, please explain why you think the inclusion of christ is having a one and only doctrine of christ-ianity?   

Howdy but now I see.

The Bible is a great book to fight over. I was in a group that could pove any dog gone thing they wanted to through the Bible. TWI.

There are Theological alternitves, that make more sense, then man choosing heaven or hell through a bowing of the knee...........

If Christ is over all then every knee shall bow. Christ will not loose any. None will be lost. Man cuts his losses; God does not.

Here is a web site that is commited to Proving that Univiersalism is what the Bible teaches.

http://tentmaker.org/

I don't argue Bible anymore, so the website that I posted will have to suffice.

Personally I have evolved right out of needing any Biblical platform to support "true spirituality".

The Bible is just part of mans attempt to explain God's works in mankind. Personally I am still very Pauline in my Spiritual approach to life.

The point here is that elitism uses it's doctrines make others of little, smaller, or of no worth.

God is not an elitist....."God is love".

Have fun.

Patrick

And here in I believe you find your answer. God is not confined to one religion. Only man's mind is that small.

Hello Eyesopen,

Yes God is not confined.

Exception; each person confines God what they are able to fathom.

Christians keep God in a certain box, as do agnostics, atheists, spiritualists, ect, ect.

Since we are quoting Einstein.

The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.

( Albert Einstein - The Merging of Spirit and Science)

A lot of us have progressed to the point where we know for sure, that we just know enough, to "stand in awe".

On another point, I find myself in agreement with Sunesis when she said that she was only pointing out (in the other thread) that your beliefs as stated were not strictly Christian. And probably should not be billed as such.

I have progressed right out of Christianity, and retain much of the Spiritual goodness that I received, while bound to that religion.

1 Thessalonians 5:21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Good advice from Paul.

We will disagree on this board. It is a freedom that we did not enjoy while in twi. So expect it. As long as we keep it civil things wont get messy.

Just started a new thread from the content of another.................it is a discussion.

I have no problem disagreeing with folks, and I spect folks have no problem disagreeing with me. I'm not a messy discusser.............

Wow though, the turn this thread took.

As our elitism topples we progress, and not until.

Sometimes we get left behind, because the world just is not going to wait forever for us to progress. One thing is sure........progress. Jump on or get run over.

Patrick

I've heard it said before when asked, "what religion are you?"

"I'm in the one that God is in".

Interesting, God is in all religion, and God has no need of religion.

In all reliegion there are the "extreemists". It seems that most folks just settle for passiveness.

When I find myself in times of trouble

Mother Mary comes to me

Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

And in my hour of darkness

She is standing right in front of me

Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be.

Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people

Living in the world agree,

There will be an answer, let it be.

For though they may be parted there is

Still a chance that they will see

There will be an answer, let it be.

Let it be, let it be. Yeah

There will be an answer, let it be.

And when the night is cloudy,

There is still a light that shines on me,

Shine on until tomorrow, let it be.

I wake up to the sound of music

Mother Mary comes to me

Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be.

There will be an answer, let it be.

Let it be, let it be,

Whisper words of wisdom, let it be

--The Beatles (Lennon/McCartney)

Is that in the bible anywhere, or is it one of those folk sayings or aphorisms that become part of culture? I have found it as part of the Wiccan/Pagan "rule of three" where you reap 3x what you sow.

That is interesting................I had not thought of it as 3x back at you in some carmatic way.

If you take your hand and put it in a fist and point your index finger at anthing you have three fingers left and they are all pointing back at you.

Patrick

God first

Beloved Patrick and Sarah and pond

God loves you two my dear friends

I read what you said Patrick and Sarah how you have become a mixture of many labels and how you pond preach the bible is your only source for truth more or less from what I got out of you two

whether my written words of ones in the bible or apostate books there just milk

if I did not understnd I am sorry but I believe these words can help us

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

Hi Roy,

Thanks for your heart. I was really impressed with ponds aswer, which is the reason I did not answer. It seems that anytime we put our particular religious piety in the lime light, we are showing this elitist tendency, that it is so easy to fall into.

The milk is sour anyway................There is a deeper truth of "Christ is in us all" that all our banter can never touch......the true Holiest of all is Emanuel, God with us, God in us........every one.

Patrick

After answering Sunesis in another thread I decided to make this a new thread. This is not a personal attack on Sunesis. I am just using the Ideas from another thread.

If you are Christian, I was pointing out where I disagreed.

You sound very theosophy/New Age/Rudolf Steiner, with Jesus thrown in for good measure. New Age/New thought with Jesus thrown into the mix does appease those who consider themselves christian.

With your belief in the "magick" of believing - that your mind can change reality (in TWI we called it believing, today it is repackaged and called "the Secret" - nothing new, the same old, same old in a new package), that we are all one, all will eventually be in Christ, you believe in the now/present, yet do not have the hope (future) - which is what Christians long for,

if after all this you call yourself "Christian," I would say, on the contrary. Here we have "Apostasy." Apostasy is a fascinating to research and see what the Bible has to say.

But, if this belief works for you, go for it. Someday I hope you will understand Christ though.

Sunesis

Yes, if you are of the mindset to "label apostate", I fit the bill.

The culture in which Paul wrote of the "apostate" was different.....was it Paul?

We as a race have progressed. Spirituality has progressed.

You have progressed and will continue to progress.

You are right that what VPW taught about believing sounds a lot like the popular book "The Secret". It is true that what you think, you attract to you. "The battle field is in the mind". We are Spiritual beings and what we feed this mind, we become. I am "apostate" in a lot of ways concerning the "Christian religion", but I am still very Pauline when it comes to renewed mind, and spiritual practice. I learned a lot of good things in my "Bible bound" days. I was Bound to the Bible as my only book for faith and practice for many years. I have progressed. I retain the good things that I learned, and I retain the knowlege of what it is that seperates by such a mentality.

In my 35 years of progressing through Christian spiritual practice, I have come to the place where I believe in mankind. I see it as destructive to put down mankind as evil or of little worth. The mentality that puts worth on mankind according their beliefs causes elitism. The elitist feels that he has the right, and the rest are wrong. The elitist seperates himself from the "apostate" so as not to be associated with the lesser soul(of course they feel that they do this in love to bring the apostate back so as "through the fire"). Elitiest judgment separates.

The It thing is not well defined for me.

I guess my concern would be eternal life, life everlasting beyond death.

the hope of Christ's return to reclaim God people back to a life without Sin.

i believe the bible does have borders and conditions set, a plan really, so we can understand why our sonship is so very vital to God and mankind.

and I do not believe every who has live has a soul will spend life living forever. do you?

Hi pond,

TWI taught that the Holy Ghost, was not a third person of the trinity, but an it. Spir"it". Spirit of God in us. I find that the Spirit is how I commune with God and that "it" is always their and that "it" is as much a part of God as God is a part of "it". The highest God and the innermost God are One and the Same God. This Part of God that some call "it" and some call Spirit, is an inseperable part of every being made in th image of God.

Yes the Bible has borders and conditions set for "salvation". Evolution has brought many out of a "Bible bound" mentality. I am not bound by a book that was written by men, secluded to a limmited theology. I gain much from their Spiritual understanding and practice, and still the words of the Bible minister to me daily. There Bible tought me about God's love, and was a tool for my healing and wholeness, and I continue to find it relevent for Spiritual practice, but I am not bound to it, as the perfect word of God.

Back to theology and will every soul live forever?

In Christianity there are 3 prevaily theology regarding this.

1)Heaven and hell.......all souls spend eternity in one or the other.

2)Heaven and annihilation...........Some are saved.....and the rest are annilhilated(the mercy of God)

3)Christ is the Savior of all and will be robbed of none.....in other words one way or another all end up in heaven.

TWI taught #2

I progressed to #3 in my Christian walk and now prefer to believe something that differs only slightly.

First it is hard to emagine that all human beings will live forever.......I mean our finite minds can hardly fathom that each soul that has ever lived continues on and on and on............It is a great number....uncountable.

What is impossible for man is possible for God.

If I am to live forever then the rest shall too. God is not limmited to man's small emagination.

God is able, so I am able to believe.

I can not prove life after death, but it is a premise of New Thought that Spirit never dies. The Body dies but the Spirit and Soul live on.

In New Thought, death is "transition" to the next realm, whatever that may be. Since there is one good power, then the next realm will be good, and progressive. We retain our idenity as we move on. If we had a weak constitution in this world, and reaped the benefits of that constitution, we take that same soul into the next realm, where we continue to learn and grow. We don't change from "sinner to saint", but I'm sure the experience will be enlightening for both.

Nuff said about what I don't know. This is why I don't live for a future heaven, but live the heaven that is available in the now. Today is the day of salvation. Today is the day to live the wholeness of "God in our midst".

Patrick

Everyone is responsible for themselves works well enough when someone is well and successful, it is a different picture when the storms of life leave some unable to meet their own needs due to illness etc. I see family and community stepping in in those situations.

Hi Bramble,

I have noticed this too. We have such pride in our own volition, and in our being self sustaining, taking care of our business ect, ect . When we have worked for it, we feel entitled, and the right to protect. Sarah and I are a team to ourselves, against the world.............Yet Christ said that the greatest amoung you will be the servant of all.

We come into this world in need of care from others and as we grow old it seems that a great number of us will need to rely on others again. It seems to be a paradox that I am still working through. Don't blink (line from a country song, about the secret to life, and how fast it goes). Much of our life is lived in our "glory days". The fun days. The goodness of God in the Now.

I live not for a future reward, but for a present benefit, of the Spiritual life, in the now. In the now, the fruit of the Spirit, is manifest in all of my responsibilities.

Patrick

We all have 'it' inside.

The journey to see it is part of the riches of the glory...

Thanks for the utube links................

cman is "see"man when it comes to "it" being in all of us.

Good word.

Patrick

I like that you see humans as basically good, but then I am not one who believes in all humanity as being fallen. By your constitution it seems you see things of the spirit in an inclusive manner, not exclusive, with your base standard being love.

If I were to write a personal constitution, I would probably have a paragraph about responsibility.

Hi Bramble,

I like your nick.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm responsibility.

I think that every relationship that has been put in my path is a God given responsibility. God has entrusted me with these responsibilities. In the end though each one is responsible for themselves first. When I mentioned that I had a constitution that I live by and that I think it is a good thing for a person to endeavor to live up to their constitution, to the teacher of the class I am in, he said "sure as long as you don't put your expectations on others".

In other words, "You are resposible for you, and let others be responsible for themselves".

Thanks for the input.

Patrick

I really do think you will ave a difficult time telling people they have a spirit .

people do not belive in a God dear. some do... but not very many believe it is the same God in that what His instructions may say or what He looks like or the plan.

many religous groups here today and the history of metaphysics will tell you that ...

it is not at all common.

Pound thanks for sticking in there. I appreciate your dialogue.

A belief is a powerful thing.

I believe that in one way or another I can talk to anyone about God. I think that most people are ok with a God concept as long as I am not force feeding them my rendition. Many a good agnostics out there.

"The truth is out there"

Do you believe all people are born from their mom with a soul and a spirit?

I do not. I think we have to be born again in the sense of accepting Jesus christ the SAVIOR of mankind believe God raised him from the dead Romans 10 etc..

and i know plenty do not accept this doctrine as truth so God is what just letting them pass? and give them a spirit anywyas? no choice in life huh?

God made man in His own image. Spirit.

Now what is the soul? Can you see it? The soul is who you and I are, with all of our life record. The soul starting from birth has learned what it means to be mankind........it has picked up everything it could along the way. The soul is where your beliefs reside. Your beliefs are a learned from birth by all the influences you have been subjected to; Where you where born, to whom you where born, how you where raised, every little thing that has krept into that head has been obsorbed by the soul and has made you................You the individual soul with all your beliefs.

There is an incorruptable part of every man, that is the Spirit, that is God. God is part of every man, and every man is part of God. As cman said so well..........We all have "it" inside.

What I love about Romans is the renewed mind. Renewed mind uses the Spirit to bring the soul to a purified state. As we through the Spirit speak truth to our own soul we begin to become like that Spirit which is God, which is Love. The ego of mankind is basically the soul that is not subject to spiritual truth. When the ego is hurt, God is not. The God part of us can then fix things up.

One thing that I liked about TWI teachings was Sonship and renewed mind. If you always "know" that you are a Spiritual being, and that you CAN live up to the Spirits desire, Then you will find true life and true peace. I have proved this...............to me. My soul believes it, trough a constant training, that the Spirit is willing to provide, according to our free will. Our free will is very important to the purifying of the soul.

every person breathes tho and has common dna. all whether they think a frog is God or Jesus is Way truth etc.

God created our soul all mankind.

and they are somewhat common in the DNa or the script BUT we all have a personality and sin etc...

not everyone has a spirit some do not want one .

we are free to deny a God any God plenty available. or to accept. spirit connotes a God of some sort so even if a person believes in a God doesnt mean he has the same belief system YOU learned in life or standard. i assume you think your standard is the holy bible so do many others.. and what God says to them is what many doctrinal division makes for the free will to flourish and even deny a spirit/ did ya read what i posted on metaphysic?sp

it is free will we live in .

My Standard is NOT the Holy Bible. My Standard is the Holy Spirit. I've thrown the book away for long periods of time, and I still have the Spirit as my guide. I believe that the writers of the Bible had there influences, religion, culture, belief systems, ect that all must be taken into account when reading the Bible.

Your post on mtaphysics looked pretty good. What was the source?

borg is the method of collective thought of many put together for the common good. i should not have used the term star trek fans know it.

God doesnt take what you think what you believe is truth and blend it in with mine and the guy next door and make us think alike. we are not borg.

Oh Star Treck....................Yeah I missed that part. I remember parts of the series, that is about it.

come on now

love is good except for those times it kicked my a@@ and i cried for weeks about it.

a general l LOVE is good is not a very detailed constitution is it?

ok then .

I see your point. Metaphysics can be a bit ambiguouse......esoteric.

When you find love, you have found God.

Science has proven dna as a base line of the species of humans, i have a cat but he is his own cat , brown fur likes to bite over weight and indeed miserable beast... a cat yet another cat not this one is not so.

as it is in the humans .

Cats are not Spiritual beings like humans are. Cats may well have cat spirit, I don't know. Cat soul.

Humans are one race. Metaphysically we all have a Spirit and a Soul that is the same. I have a Human soul.....so do you. They are remarkably the same.

you really can not use religous belief system to compare to science ruling in the case of what is part of what, YOU believe this ideal of "the one body of Christ" science proves dna whether they believe as you do or not they are still a human being.

many do not think this body of christ theory in fact we as humans have several religous theorys doesnt change the fact they belong to the species considered human.

you can not compare the two .

I can too

The body of Christ is Paul's analogy. I can take Paul's analogy and make it my own with a completely different standard. Paul said "we are all members". When Paul saw his "bretheren" he saw the Body of Christ. When I see any human being I can call them my "bretheren" and see the one bread, one body, Christ.

it is the body of CHRIST a spiritual comparision of where christian theory is at.

do ya think we will all warp into this massive creature with big hair some day? hahahaha

no

of course not.

I am using Pauls ananlogy as a spiritual comparison on a bigger level.

In the kingdom as Jesus Rules as KING OF KING we will be people just as we are today just folks living breathing having children , making mistakes in life .

God gave us brains with the ability to learn and make choices free will is part of our created nature by a mighty God.

we are not borg.

Still not sure what borg is.

I believe in free will as well. I believe that with our free will we are drawn to God through trial and error. We learn a little here and a little there.

If you need Jesus Christ as king of kings and Lord of lords in order to love, then more power to you......as long as the love follows. God is love.

One can have Jesus as Lord and not have love,

and one Can have Love as Lord and not have Jesus(though they are one).

Much of Christian doctrine on Lordship falls short for me. I don't think that Jesus cares one way or the other if you call Him Lord, as long as you have love. I'm not bashing Jesus. I'm bashing a doctrine that excludes a majority of the race because of their particularities.

Yes, in my constitution I go with Love. The one who has Jesus but has not love, has not God(in their heart).

.

you write

.......to a" perfect man,we are not all there yet.

so who do you think is "there" ? do you get to decide with those spiritual eyes that are part of your constitution?

The bible says CLEARLY JESUS CHRIST is the only one who was without Sin and blemish .

and you also believe every man is a part of you well if you use soem common sense that sounds pretty much like a cult brain. the borg

Hey pond,

What is the borg?

We are all there to a certain degree. The whole context of the Body of Christ is that God has made some to the ministry of teachers, prophets, ect ect ect............These ones that God has made able to minister......have they made it there yet? The trick is to teach people to follow God and not man. Not to "heap to themselfs teachers"............I am of Paul, I am of Apolos...........ect....we are all of God. There is no division in Christ. Perfect world.

And yet I show you a more perfect way.........

Love is patience, love is kind,

It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

It is not rude, it is not self seeking it is not easily angered.

It does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects, alsays trusts, always hopes, always percerveres.

Love never fails.

The standard is love.

It is not up to me to decide who is worthy or not......all are worthy. We love all.

I can't make others follow my constitution. I can only endeavour to make me follow it.

Cult brain?

Spiritual living?

I choose Spirit over mens lables. Heres a cult, theres a cult, everwhere a cult, cult...........

I choose to commune with those who endeavour to love.

I think we all need community and we starve ourselves out of fear or pride.

Pride keeps us from fellowshipping with them that differ from us.

Fear keeps is in our safe house.

Love gets us out.

That is Metaphysical.

Oh well, I ranted.

Thanks pond.

I do not know what level of education your writing this page for, I can tell you most higher education lit courses focus on cohesiveness of your presentation of your ideal, NOT the ideal .

institute of learning are not about a right and wrong ideas but rather how you communcate your thesis.

The course is "adult education". No credit in the real world, just the orginization. It is a reqired course in order to take other courses that lead to being a Spiritual Practitioner in Religious Science.

are you looking for a grade ?

......... most will write their constitution at will... and often it effects few other than their own self.

There is no grade. It is pass or fail. The onley way to fail is not neet the criteria of handing in a project and not attending 11 out of the 13 sessions. Each session has homework that must be turned in as well.........................I'm passing.

on a more personal less academic stance.

no i do not believe "every human is a part of me"

dear God that would indeed send me over the edge of life itself.

Every human a part of me is similar to the Body of Christ analogy, don't you think? Jesus prayed that we would be one even as He and the Father are one. At least the Christian has to admit that every Christian is a part of me.

Then we broke that down to sonship and fellowship.........remember. We are always sons, therefor part of the Body, but we are not always in fellowship. In the bigger sense, if all men have the same Father of all Spiritual beings, then just because all men do not walk in their Spiritual nature, that does not mean that they never will or are not to a certain degree.