def59

AnotherDan

I am back.

I must add James Merrick to my list.

Personally, I don't care much for Copeland, Osteen, et. al. They are of the word faith movement and the prosperity gospel. If you get something edifying out of them. fine. but see how they live as well.

Has it been brought up that James, of the book, was Jesus' brother?

I think you're barely scratching the surface when it comes to asking the hard "God" questions Dot.

But, those are a start.

The problem is that religion - despite what it's practitioners would have you believe, or even readily admit to themselves - is not primarily a logical pursuit, but rather an emotional one. Reason is not what's invoked to convert the unwashed heathen, but rather feelings, fears, longings, impressions, intuitions. Hence questions that could be handled in a logical manner - but call into question basic tenets of the faith - aren't answered openly and honestly but, almost universally get "spin-doctored" ( see your other two responses for example).

I could ask (and have) questions like "How can an all-loving, all powerful God allow a baby to die?" Or, "If God is so loving and all knowing, why did he set things up in such a way that He's have to kill off his own son to save mankind?" And such like, and mostly what I've gotten is stuff like "Well God would have to do it like that or He wouldn't be a just God" and other meaningless drivel.

I think if you really want to maintain a "Good, Christian lifestyle" you have to be willing to put reason and honest inquiry on a back burner - forever...

Aar

What do you lose if you follow the Christian lifestyle?

Atheism imho requires a lot more faith and trust in a series of blind luck than any faith system outside of LDS.

Nowhere in the Bible are we told to blindly follow God. He invites us to come and reason with him. For me Chrisitanity is a logical and reasoned faith.

Remember that God is outside of time. Time is part of the creation. Without matter and energy, time does not exist. So what was BEFORE creation cannot be thought of in terms of time. God just was, time didn't pass, eternity can't be measured.

The existence of evil in the face of a loving God can only be explained as a necessary entity for a greater good. Like two sides of a coin, both are necessary to make a distinction between the two. Could love be experienced without evil? Could God have done it a different way, perhaps, but we must trust that this is the best way. No pain no gain. To suffer the existence of evil now is necessary to realize the glorification later.

Jerry

Right on Jerry

For us to experience a loving, mericiful, forgiving God, there must be something out there opposite those qualities to allow us a chance to compare.

I must respectfully disagree about Preterism, although I once thought it was the correct view. I'll list why I disagree with it.

1. The doctrine of Preterism is a Jesuit invention, whose goal was protecting the Catholic church and the Pope from the visions in Revelation (i.e., the "beast" is Rome, the woman who rides the beast, the harlot is the Catholic church, etc.).

2. Preterists believe that ALL prophecy in the Bible has been fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. They generally believe that all of the prophecies relating to the end-times were fulfilled spiritually circa AD 70.

Result, they accept the OT prophecies as literal and true, yet "spiritualize" Revelation. Even though Revelation is the literal fulfillment of the OT prophecies, to have the doctrine of Preterism stand, everything in Revelation is now a spiritual allegory, nothing to be taken literally, no prophecies fulfilled.

For example, Preterism spiritualizes all passages of scripture in the New Testament that relate to the nation of Israel and claim that these refer to the church, the "New Israel". They teach that the "old earth", which scripture says will pass away, is the Old Covenant. The new heaven and earth, they say, is the New Covenant and the "elements" which scripture says will burn with fervent heat when this happens, are the "elements of the law." (Does this mean the 10 Commandments are now defunct?)

Preterism can produce some bizarre explanations for why the world is still experiencing suffering and calamity - instead of the peace under Christ's rule, and superabundance of the earth, all tears wiped away, no more pain and sorrow, etc., that is found in Revelation. Does the description of earth in Rev 21-22 even come close to the state of the world today?

4. Revelation was most likely NOT written during the persecutions of Nero, but near the end of the century, 30 years after Nero.

There are many reasons for this, but I'll hit on a couple of the most common, although there are many more. First, the church was already in error. When we read about the 7 churches in Rev. we see that Ephesus had "lost its first love." Smyrna had those who belonged to "the synagogue of Satan." Pergamos had not only Nicolaitanes, but those who held "the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a stumbling-block before the children of Israel," etc.

All of the Churches were already in a state of decline from what they were when Paul wrote his Epistles to some of them - this takes time.

Second, according to the early "church fathers," with few exceptions, they are unanimous in ascribing the exile of John, and the writing of the Apocalypse, to the time of Domitian. Irenaeus, Victorinus, Hippolytus, Eusebius, Jerome, etc. They all wrote that John was the prophet who was banished under Domitian (30 years after Nero) and had the great Revelation.

4. For Revelation to have occurred in AD 70 - and all prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD, then you must then ask:

When was the Gospel preached to all the nations (notwithstanding LCM's entering into the promised land)?

When was the Mark of the Beast implemented?

When were the two witnesses killed in front of the entire earth, their deaths rejoiced over by the world, then raised after 3 days?

What about the King of the East’s (China?) 200 million man army?

When did 100-pound hailstones fall from the sky?

When did the world's water turn to blood? ("as they have spilled the blood of the prophets, let them drink blood")

When did the Euphrates dry up?

Why did we have a rebirth of Israel - again?

If Jerusalem was forever removed in 70 A.D., why is it back?

Where is the new heaven new earth?

Where is the great white throne?

When did all mankind see Christ returning with his saints and wail and try and hide themselves?

Where is the new Jerusalem come down to earth?

When did Christ return in total Glory for all to see?

Where is Christ who rules the earth from Jeruselem?

Where is the no more sorrow and tears?

It goes on and on.

Thus, while Preterism does a good job of absolving the Catholic church from any possiblity of being the "Babylon Mystery Religion" to come, and is an interesting theory, I do not believe it true.

Just my 2 Cents. I know many will disagree.

Sunesis

You summed up my questions. Good job.

Here's a survey you can copy and paste into your reply with your own answers. Elaborate on your answers if you like. You can also come back and write a full explanation of your position for any particular item. (Heck, you can do whatever you like!)

T = true F = false U = unsure

Adam and Eve are historical figures, who lived 5000 - 7000 years ago. T/F/U

True

Jesus of Nazareth uniquely represented the Creator as His Son. T/F/U

True

The risen Jesus Christ is my Lord. T/F/U

True

The Book of Job is allegorical. That is, it attempts to explain human suffering using fictional characters. T/F/U

False

The disciple John, one of "the twelve", wrote 5 Books: John, 1John, 2John, 3John, and Revelation. T/F/U

probably

Paul wrote Hebrews. T/F/U

doubtful

Moses wrote Genesis. T/F/U

oral tradition handed down to the time of exodus.

David wrote the 23rd Psalm. T/F/U

why not?

Paul's doctrine of "by faith alone" contradicts James' doctrine, as recorded in the Book of James. T/F/U

no.

Four were crucified with Jesus. T/F/U

does it matter?

I speak in tongues in my private prayer life. T/F/U

so?

God loves homosexuals. T/F/U

yes

Homosexuality is not a sin. T/F/U

False

God does not hate. T/F/U

1 Cor. 12 says that all nine "manifestations" of the spirit are the privilege of everyone who has been "born again" by confessing Jesus as their lord, and believing God raised him from the dead. (When combined with Romans 10:9 and other scriptures.) T/F/U

they are gifts and God decides who gets them. The same with fruit. The spirit produces the fruit.

The prayer of a believer can move God to do something He would not otherwise have done. T/F/U

False

Mormonism, Catholicism, and JW’s are perversions of Christianity. T/F/U

1 and 3 yes, 2 not always.

Some of Jesus’ teaching is impossible to carry out. T/F/U

by ourselves yes.

"Sin consciousness" is not in the believer’s self-interest. T/F/U

Sin ignorance is not beneficial either.

The canon is closed. Another authentic letter of Paul will never surface. T/F/U

Yes.

There are authentic apostles and prophets of God living and ministering today. T/F/U

no on the apostles, yes on the prophets. most in the church believe an apostle is someone who was personally called by Christ (i.e. the 12, Paul)

Requiring narrative answers (short or long):

When Jesus told Nicodemus that he "must be born again," what did he mean?

Look in the book it's in there.

What are your thoughts on the Fourth commandment (not to work on the sabbath)?

define sabbath.

I contend modern Western atheists have been so colored by a culture immersed in Christianity they do not know what they believe or disbelieve.

I have heard that morals and ethics have evolved, but by whose standards? Are the jihadists a step backward or forward? Was Stalin on the right track? Or Christ?

Is freedoom an inherent value or is it learned?

What about murder, stealing, adultery or envy?

How can one say these are wrong or should one even say it?

Would your faith suffer if the return of the Lord came during or after the great tribulation?

I stayed so long because TWI had convinced me there was nowhere else to go.

Since then I have found the church was a welcoming place and have a stronger faith.

Welcome to the 20-reply club.

Way doctrines are and always were messed up.

I miss the Mountain Dew parties.

I miss wow burgers.

I miss staying up all night

I miss the reunions

I miss the Frisbee football games

I miss learning how to eat yogurt for the first time

I miss going to Ohio every August.

I miss the fellowship.

But I don't miss the Way

See now, you've all had time to get back to the original Island, while kept Henry alive on the other island.

Kate, don't come back for me.

If an American dies overseas, there's a good chance they'll be from Michigan. (Missionaries shot down in Ecuador, engineer beheaded in Iraq)

If a town elects a kid to be mayor - it will likely be from Michigan (Hillsdale 2005 - I voted for him)

If a Mormon runs for president, he'll be from Michigan (George in 1968, Mitt in 2008)

Couldn't John 1:1 be

In the beginning was A and A was with God and A was God?

There's nothing to suggest that the Word has three meanings.

there aren't any verses to support slain the spirit.

If you don't know why your moral compass points north, then you will forever be lost in the dense forest of situational ethics.

1 John 3:2 is a platitude, not a promise.

the name it, claim it crowd go nuts on this one.

It's like us saying "I hope you are doing well. And the family's healthy."

Why is this important?

Because in other places, God tells his people they will experience hardships, trials and torture and gruesome deaths for his name.

To claim this verse as a promise of healing, negates a lot of other scripture. Sometimes God will use sickness and (gasp) death to bring glory to His Name.

Is there a transcript available?

Does anyone think the Tigers can go back to the Series?

I had a blast last year and didn't wince too much when they threw the games away.

After 12 straight losing seasons, it was fun to be a Tiger fan.

Last time I had that much fun, I was deep into TWI. But I am feeling much better now.

Starbird the Mike of the JWs?

False religion is alive and well and living in Chicago.

Go Cults!

not lost

just a hiatus until Feb. 4 when it will be all new posts and no repeats.

Man it's been a long time. I took CFS and didn't remember the pics you guys talk about. I heard about the porn movies vpw said he kept for instructing corps not to be blown away by people with problems.

Guess they were instructive alright.

Piffle after the 10th time.

Most of the advanced class.

Anything by loy boy

Belle

I think if you have too many 7 and 7s you could get that answer.

Another answer could be .500 (a team's record after 14 games)

Maybe this has been covered.

Since there was no punctuation in the originals, (as vpw himself said) could his take on the parenthetical phrases in John 1 and Colossians be seen as an error. Who says these are parenthetical phrases anyway?