lucyvanpelt

you need help honey, yes you are much prettier than I am

You don't even have the guts to state you real name and you think I have problems. Honestly...........

How silly is that?

I gave a copy of that PM to an administrator so that it's on the record.

Now back to the topic at hand....

I think everyone has the right to speak their mind, if they have one.

I am perfectly healthy. But thanks everybody for all your concern, take a look in the mirror every so often and don't be so quick to judge next time and give people a little credit. Look, let's face facts, there is no delicate way to say you were abused? Why is it, that it's ok for people to say Dr. so and so raped me, or Craig did this to me, but it's a problem when I share what happened to me. Let's face another thing, it happened over 30 years ago, I got past it, why can't any of you? How much worse can it be? Rape is rape. I am past it.

You think you are so clever and above it all and aren't you smart for cutting people down? that aint' right............

Lucy, print this thread out and give it to your doctor on your next visit. You may need to have the level of your meds or therapy increased.

I am through. You need more help than we can provide here.

Do you make this stuff up or do you have a writer on the payroll?

Lucy is Janice Lang remember her? She just pm'd me and threatened me

I saved a copy of it sweetie, do you want to call your lawyer? I told you to shut up. Because you just like to dig until you tick somebody off.

I'm still prettier than you.

Don't beat yourself up too badly, Lucy.

I, myself, didn't know much about the sordid details until I stumbled in here about two years ago.

Believe it or not, I found this place while searching for a replacement for my PFAL book which had gone "missing in action".

I was still lending out my collaterals and "witnessing" to people.( though I rarely sent anyone to a twig again after my rather unpleasant experiences in Fellow Laborers.)

I ain't beating myself up at all, I didn't do anything wrong. I am a direct person, I don't put dresses on dogs, I say it like I think it, It's the way I am. I just had questions.

Believe it or not, I found this place when after 16 years I was looking to find a teacher of God's Word. I googled Dr. Wierwille out of pure boredom, and this popped up. Frankly, it made me sick so i clicked on the links and found Michael Cortright's family page, started clicking away and got inspired by one name and emailed him. And four years later, I am a whole woman. I asked this guy a million questions, praise God he is from New York and don't get all goopy when you ask a direct question, I asked him about the Way, VP, and PFAL, and he just taught God's Word, never belittled anyone, never insulted anyonw, respected what was, moves on with what is and the guy is a rock on God's Word. He calls me faithful and a Berean. Two things I never associated with myself. I was too busy in Waydom condemnation. Can I get a Witness? I think I got a good handle of God's Word now.

All my collaterals got given away, same as you. i don't need them. All I need is my Bible, and a heart with no preconceived ideas that hungers for truth. That got me far.

I got to go feed my honey bunny.....

Lucy,

Dot, ExCathedra, and whoever else was in the room the night VPW talked about his daughters are not responsible for whatever you went through in TWI. Your anger is misdirected. You are blowing up all over the board.

Do yourself a favor, take a walk, find something light and fun to do. Or go to a gym and hit a punching bag, go for a run, whatever helps you vent your steam.

You have a right to be angry, but you are blaming the wrong people.

I am not angry. Want to call my house and talk to me. Trust me, I am not ....ed.

I blew up at Dot after she attacked me. I didn't hit first, I hit her back. Fights' over. I am not mad.

Isn't dot precious at how she doesn't get all uptight and judgemental and uses your weaknesses against you? Isn't she loving, kind, considerate, putting herself in someones elses shoes before she grabs the butcher knife and starts hacking.

I was only asking questions, I still stand by my post, I just didn't feel searchin all through here for the thousands of posts to answer my question. I figure they are big girls, I will just ask.

You are truly paranoid Dot.

Psst....so you know, there are lots of bipolar people. Here's a list. So not to hurt your feelings, but I would rather be locked up in a pen with them, then to be in Tiffany's with a million dollars with you. Capice?

Ned Beatty

Maurice Bernard, soap opera

Jeremy Brett

Jim Carey

Lisa Nicole Carson

Rosemary Clooney, singer

Lindsay Crosby

Eric Douglas

Robert Downey Jr.

Patty Duke

Carrie Fisher

Connie Francis, singer and actress

Shecky Greene, comedian

Linda Hamilton

Moss Hart, actor, director, playright

Mariette Hartley

Margot Kidder

Vivien Leigh

Kevin McDonald, comedian

Kristy McNichols

Burgess Meredith, actor, director

Spike Milligan, actor, writer

Spike Mulligan, comic actor and writer

Nicola Pagett

Ben Stiller, actor, director, writer

David Strickland

Lili Taylor

Tracy Ullman

Jean-Claude Van Damme

Robin Williams

Jonathon Winters, comedian

Artists

Alvin Alley, dancer, choreogapher

Ludwig Von Beethoven

Tim Burton, artist, director

Francis Ford Coppola, director

George Fredrick Handel, composer

Bill Lichtenstein, producer

Joshua Logan, broadway director, producer

Vincent Van Gogh, painter

Gustav Mahier, composer

Francesco Scavullo, artist, photographer

Robert Schumann, composer

Don Simpson, movie producer

Norman Wexler, screenwriter, playwright

Entrepreneurs

Robert Campeau

Pierre Peladeau

Heinz C. Prechter

Ted Turner, media giant

Financiers

John Mulheren

Murray Pezim

Miscellaneous

Buzz Aldrin, astronaut

Clifford Beers, humanitarian

Garnet Coleman, legislator (Texas)

Larry Flynt, publisher and activist

Kit Gingrich, Newt's mom

Phil Graham, owner of Washington Post

Peter Gregg, team owner and manager, race car driver

Susan Panico (Susan Dime-Meenan), business executive

Sol Wachtier, former New York State Chief Judge

Musicians

Ludwig van Beethoven, composer

Alohe Jean Burke, musician, vocalist

Rosemary Clooney, singer

DMX Earl Simmons, rapper and actor

Ray Davies

Lenny Dee

Gaetano Donizetti, opera singer

Peter Gabriel

Jimi Hendrix

Kristen Hersh (Throwing Muses)

Phyllis Hyman

Jack Irons

Daniel Johnston

Otto Klemperer, musician, conductor

Oscar Levant, pianist, composer, television

Phil Ochs, musician, political activist, poet

John Ogden, composer, musician

Jaco Pastorius

Charley Pride

Mac Rebennack (Dr. John)

Jeannie C. Riley

Alys Robi, vocalist in Canada

Axl Rose

Nick Traina

Del Shannon

Phil Spector, musician and producer

Sting, Gordon Sumner, musician, composer

Tom Waits, musician, composer

Brian Wilson, musician, composer, arranger

Townes Van Zandt, musician, composer

Poets

John Berryman

C.E. Chaffin, writer, poet

Hart Crane

Randall Jarrell

Jane Kenyon

Robert Lowell

Sylvia Plath

Robert Schumann

Delmore Schwartz

Political

Robert Boorstin, special assistant to President Clinton

L. Brent Bozell, political scientist, attorney, writer

Bob Bullock, ex secretary of state, state comptroller and lieutenant governer

Winston Churchill

Kitty Dukasis, former First Lady of Massachusetts

Thomas Eagleton, lawyer, former U.S. Senator

Lynne Rivers, U.S. Congress

Theodore Roosevelt, President of the United States

Scholars

John Strugnell, biblical scholar

Scientists

Karl Paul Link, chemist

Dimitri Mihalas

Sports

Shelley Beattie, bodybuilding, sailing

John Daly, golf

Muffin Spencer-Devlin, pro golf

Ilie Nastase, tennis

Jimmy Piersail, baseball player, Boston Red Sox, sports announcer

Barret Robbins, football

Wyatt Sexton, football

Alonzo Spellman, football

Darryl Strawberry, baseball

Dimitrius Underwood, football

Luther Wright, basketball

Bert Yancey, athlete

TV & Radio

Dick Cavett

Jay Marvin, radio, writer

Jane Pauley

Writers

Louis Althusser, philosopher, writer

Honors de Balzac

Art Buchwald, writer, humorist

Neal Cassady

Patricia Cornwell

Margot Early

Kaye Gibbons

Johann Goethe

Graham Greene

Abbie Hoffman, writer, political activist

Kay Redfield Jamison, writer, psychologist

Peter Nolan Lawrence

Frances Lear, writer, editor, women's rights activist

Rika Lesser, writer, translator

Kate Millet

Robert Munsch

Margo Orum

Edgar Allen Poe

Theodore Roethke

Lori Schiller, writer, educator

Frances Sherwood

Scott Simmie, writer, journalist

August Strindberg

Mark Twain

Joseph Vasquez, writer, movie director

Mark Vonnegut, doctor, writer

Sol Wachtler, writer, judge

Mary Jane Ward

Virginia Woolf

So, the ability to overcome is this illness is there. You aren't anybody to me, you are a made up name in a cyber community of disgruntled people.

huh?

I just made my point.

Lucy

I know you weren't speaking to me but the time frame would have been about 1974 or 1975 to the best of my recollections.

Oh you are kidding. I wish I had known that, I would have told them to shove that green card. I can't believe that I never sniffed any of this out til now. Now I am really ....ed.

Makes me want to plow that whole area slap under. Man, if my parents knew this, doo doo would have hit the fan. My daddy knew people. High up in government people, people that like to eat non profits for lunch people. They supported me in this endeavor.

I am sick to my stomach.

Lucy

May God help you not hate the world because you had a rough life. Or slam into walls because your personal hatred has made you blind. For that hate can twist facts and cripple you even further.

There are many here who have suffered abuse, you are not so different than many women who found their way into TWI. So, your personal story, although compelling, does not give you a license to prance your self-righteous azz into my life on the accusatory. Did you read your post? Do you think maybe you were a bit out of line in the way you presented?

But I have read that you also have a chemical imbalance that you posted elsewhere in the cafe, so I am not going to engage you in battle. I am not shy of battle, nor do I think I would loose, its just I recognize you come ill equipped considering your past abuse and your "chemical imbalance" with which you are dealing. (I am not devulging anything you did not post and it truly is revealing to me, why you speak as you do, have a need to always be right, etc. is all part of that illness, I am not using this as a jab but as a point of understanding)

I do not want to be responsible for pushing you to a place you cannot handle. I am well aware of bi-polars and how much they can and cannot handle. So, I said my piece. You can argue, twist, justify and or play the sympathy card... I do not care.

Most are smart enough to see through that. Some may be drawn into the subtle twist of the perpetrator VP to Ex and I being responsible for the crimes by not getting someone to "stop it". Which is a mighty tall order from a woman who did nothing herself. (The whole glass house and stone throwing saying applies here)

You were wrong in the way you approached Ex and myself. And it is obviously drenched in a pain, independent of TWI, with which you still struggle. Perhaps, if you get help with the identifiable abuse, and the identifiable abuser in your life you will also be delivered of your cult problems.

I wish you well.

Lucy honey, take your medication. Then, it will be a fair fight.

Like Fish in a barrel...

Idios.

I respond to you, painfully aware of your abuse, but in kind to the curt remarks you made to me and to Excathedra. For I shall not let it slide. I am “speaking up” to you for your judgment of me in your post.

There were about 50 people there. We were broken into groups. The corps coordinator knew, the elder corps, the visiting clergy. They all knew. Exactly, whom should we have told; you? The sold out followers of the Drambuie king? The man who could no wrong? People like you?

You can hardly navigate your way around here without asphyxiating on the vomit that was taught to you in TWI and defending it as if it were a holistic diet to be enjoyed by all forever. By your own post you knew something happened to your corps sister yet I never heard of your noble endeavors to fight for justice. I do not see you archived as one who made a difference and stopped the abuse by your declaration of truth or defense of your corps sister.

No, you and your phariseedical behaviors, I have seen in your posts, would surely have believed Craig and the others at the lunchtime announcement that we were possessed.

You have NO idea how I fought and what I fought and whom I confronted..

It seems that you, however, you are still eating poop and calling pabulum.

I truly hope you heal from the horrors of your childhood. But with your adherence and defense of the “cult” I think you are a long way from being healthy. So, I will disenfranchise myself from your post at this point – because frankly, it is just too easy. And I do not want to push you over the precipice on which you teeter. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

In response to:

You make the continued abuse Ex's and my fault rather than be shocked that the abuse took place - thereby, you have navigated people away from the issue, and have changed the victims into the criminals. So, by your own standards, I speak up now and say, "Oh, no you don't"

I appreciate that you responded. My remarks were never intended as curt, if you or anyone takes them that way that is YOUR reading something into what is honestly not there. I just wanted to know where were you, did your head pop up and look around to see if anybody else heard what you just heard? Did you try to do anything at the time? Were you scared? At that point I don't think I would have "told" anybody, I would have packed my stuff and headed on down the road. BTW, when I first got wind of some this crap, that is exactly what I did. Nobody was holding at any of the root locales against our wills. If that happened, I will be shocked.

Yeah, I knew Teri Gill was banging Craig, we confronted her, she blew us off (not literally) and went about her business, i never had anything to do with her again. If she wanted to bang him, have at it, it's her business and Craigs's and she ws not forced against her will, it's how she got him to do Athletes of the Spirit to begin with. Dr. told him not to, he wasn't going to, and that female talked him into it. I was there for that, I know that to be fact.

I would not have thought anyone possessed who was forced to do anything against their will. Nope, you have no idea what you are talking about. I would have called my dad, gotten you a lawyer and that would have been that, I always defend the weak. And yeah, I am strong. God made me strong. And I am sorry that any of this happened to anyone. Because it stole God's Word from you and others like you. NOT PFAL, whatever God's Word you knew, was queered, stolen, forever harmed because of all this. And that makes me so mad I want to go to HQ and dig that grave up and stomp his foot...

You have NO idea how I fought and what I fought and whom I confronted.. Dot wrote that. that's what I was asking, with as mouthy as you are, I know you had to have done something. I am just trying to figure out how far extended this was.

It seems that you, however, you are still eating poop and calling pabulum. Dot wrote. I am not judging anyone here, I am asking questions, and you have no idea who I am, what I believe and who I associate with. YOU ASSUME.

I truly hope you heal from the horrors of your childhood. But with your adherence and defense of the “cult” I think you are a long way from being healthy. So, I will disenfranchise myself from your post at this point – because frankly, it is just too easy. And I do not want to push you over the precipice on which you teeter. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Dot wrote.

I am completely delivered from the abuse my brother caused me. To the end that I know miss him, I remember his football heros, his all time hero, Johnny Unitas, Roman Gabriel, O.J. Simpson, Bart Starr, and Bruce Lee. He loved green. The whole thing. Every shade and every tint, and I also remember that the very very first time it happened it happened so fast I didn't remember it, he only got mad and sought revenge when i rejected the act, he thought I rejected him. So if I see him again, it won't bother me. I forgave him. It's over. And it feels great!

i do not associate with the Way, I do not freely avail myself to the Way, I have not had anything to do with them since June 1988. Bob Stanley is the first innie I have talked to since I packed my crayons and went home. And he is deluded to say the least.

I am healthy, ask my shrink. I am what they call a 4 month patient, I go once every four months get my meds, and move on down the road. If they thought I had a problem, I would still be in therapy. Maybe you don't know what healthy is, perhaps??

Honey, you aren't woman enough to rock my boat. I'd have to give a s###t about what you are saying first. And none of it phases me really.

I live in reality world, I also live my life based on God's Word which is what I have learned from 2004 til today. And frankly a lot of that was excising the wrong teaching that kept us away from the truth. And besides that God likes me. He just favors me, because I am stupid enough to take Him at His Word. So if I am crazy, fine, call me crazy, I don't care.

LVP - consider that you come across as being rather prickly in the first post where you started asking questions.

It may not have been your intent- but to my "ear" it sounded like you were railing against anyone that didn't do as you did. There is a lot of self-righteous pride in the "sound" of your post.

I'm hoping that you're just writing off the top of your head and not implying that you were stronger or better or holier than those that did something different.

TWI was a different beast to different people. Add to that the fact that those who tried to expose any secret were summarily dismissed and defamed.

Can you find a way to back off on the righteous indignation and ask some simpler questions without the editorial? It would go a long way towards you getting some answers instead of griping and sniping.

I had no intentions of being prickly, and I asked Excathedra and Dot Matrix the questions since Dot mentioned they were both in the room when Veep said he molested his kids, I was looking for a timeframe, what was the mood of the country and TWI at the time, and since doojable wasn't there, can you step back and let me speak with them.

If you think that my questions were railing, maybe you are paranoid.

I am righteous, as righteous as you, if you are born again. Don't make me self righteous, I think you are again paranoid.

For somebody that doesn't care for self righteous smugness, you sue made a lot of ASSumptions. You don't even know me.

Ya know ---- (with all due respect to you Lucy), there were MANY times that folks could've, should've, and sometimes DID actually speak out. But guess what? They weren't, or wouldn't have been *preaching to the choir*, so it would have been futile to do so. Given the mind control going on, everyone involved in twi tended to believe *leadership* over some *goof-ball* who was spouting anti-way stuff, no matter how benign or inflammatory.

Look at what they (twi) did to John Schoenheit for MERELY publishing a work saying that adultery is WRONG. Not only did they smear his name, call him possessed, and toss him out --- they (twi) ALSO said that anyone who read his paper, or had it in their possession, would get possessed by *debbil spirits* too.

Damage control at hdqtrs swung into HIGH GEAR anytime something like this surfaced, and you can bet your bottom dollar that it NEVER was complimentary to the one making accusations. Matter of fact -- the one making the accusation was made out to be the *criminal*, regardless of how sound and accurate their claims might have been.

So please --- don't go the *You are as guilty as THEY are* route.

It won't wash. Mrs. Wierwille (even) said of docvic ------- >>>

"He was a mean, mean man". And she said that after his death also.

I don't know which twi YOU were in (twi-1, twi-2, or twi-3), but I was in twi-1.

Opening your mouth to voice oppositiion meant IMMEDIATE M & A.

Kinda like Communist China/ Russia/, etc. Voice your opinion, suffer the consequences.

You forget the nature of the ORG (beast) that we were dealing with.

Could you please speak English? TWI1, TWI2, TWI3, what is that?

I knew this was going to cause a problem, but chose to post anyway because I think it needed to be addressed.

I was around the Way from 1980 until 1988 as I have stated before. And in that time I never had an inkling about any of this. As an incest survivor there are hints, clues, something to warn you of the danger.

The only time I was even made aware that "leadership" was not to be questioned was when my own Corps sisters told me about Craig, and people in AOS. Before that, it was not pushed on me.

There were lots of people to tell, Shelby County Police, they were looking to shut down the farm, The FBI, your parents, a sibling any grown up with any sense would have helped in the situation.

Perhaps you weren't affected by your situation in the same way they were by theirs. Fine. Perhaps you simply live in denial of how you felt in your situation - I don't know. said by Abigail

I went from 80 pounds to 250 pounds in 6 years, hoping if I made myself ugly, he'd leave me alone. I bit my nails to stubs, I skipped two whole quarters of school, I made f's when I did show up because all I could think about was where can I hide til my parents came home? I lashed out at everyone, I started to tell a teacher, but my brother went to the same school, my own friends didn't believe me when I told them, when I did finally tell my parents, my mother had no reaction other than to keep preparing to out, and my dad tried to chop his pee pee off but missed, and that only served to make him even more mad. I was prey. And after that came the real threat, in the middle of the night, something he had never done before, he snuck into my room, clamped his hand over my mouth and said, "It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, and it might not be next year, but I AM going to kill you" The look in his eyes told me I was screwed. Which is why i went to the woods to my spot and told God to kill him. I had done nothing wrong, I didn't bring any of this on, and I wanted a chance to have a happy childhood, so get him gone. 6 months later he died in a car accident. He suffered for three hours before he died. ah, what a pity. I thought Good, he should have suffered for an hour for every minute of torment I endured.

And that is the key, I endured and I won, He has been dead since 3:42am June 26, 1976, and I am still here.

I had no way out, but I knew God, I knew God loved me and that what I was going through was wrong and He helped me get through it and got rid of the problem. It was so bad Abigail, I told God at 12, if Gary goes to heaven I don't want to go. I was trapped in a house in the 1970's when this type of problem was not discussed or dealt with, and I came out the other side whole. Finally. I don't deny any of how it felt. It is a sad day when a child feels safer outside then it does in its own house. Check out my jaw, it pops, why? He broke it. I have scars all over from the physical abuse, from a spoon, from a piece of glass, from a Zippo lighter, from being tied up there are scars on my wrists, I had screamed myself hoarse, maybe I just allowed God to heal me and got over it. Hmmmmm, that sounds like godly advice to me.

I have found the longer you dwell on what the perp did the longer they exercise control STILL over your life. I forgave him. With that forgiveness which took years, trust me, came closure to the whole thing and I can talk about it and be objective about it, it doesn't hurt me anymore. It's just something tragic that happened when i was a kid, it does not define me now. But try to touch me if I don't want you to, first you will draw back a nub, and second, my relationship with God is stronger now that I don't have the bs from the PI and wrong doctrine we got taught, and God has rescued me from a perp back in 2004. God picked the guy up by the scruff of the neck and tossed him off me. And that friends, is in the police report to the PLPD.

I am not condemning anyone, I am asking what did you do, if anything, to try to stop this from happening to other people. Because within my own Corps, some of those girls were stupid enough to think it was an honor to have sex with "leadership" I asked them like I am asking here, don't you know right from wrong, you have the ability to think for yourself. No one in the Way ever tried to f### with my free will. I would have been gone so fast heads would have spun. That is the one thing that kept me from going insane in relation to my brother, he may have gotten my body to do what he wanted after all he was 6'6" 250 pounds of the meanest snake I ever met, and I was only 5' but he never got me to allow what was going on in my mind. I wouldn't let it. It was wrong, I knew it was wrong, and there had to be a way out.

I never felt mind controlled, I felt pushed around, but I wouldn't allow it. In residence if I didn't like a job assignment, I would go and bitch and my job would be changed. It didn't hurt that my tuition was paid weeks before I hit the door.

I never saw any of this side of this ministry, and never would have had I not googled vp in 2004. So what you people take for granted because "you have been in on it" for so long, this is still shocking to me. If it happened, I don't know, LIKE I SAID IN THE ORIGINAL POST, I WASN'T THERE. I am taking the word of people who hide behind fake names, so if being skeptical bothers you I am sorry, it's a lot of absorb, and if I have honest questions, I am going to ask them. My intent wasn't to start world war three, evidently, some of you are real prickly, I didn't know the answer to the question, so I asked. If you get mad and get defensive it is not going to help me understand where you are coming from.

I just got the CD.... only listened to the first 3 or 4 tracks, and it does rock. Looking forward to giving it a serious listen. Perhaps I'll post a review later. My three grown girls grew up on God First, and this is straight-up Bob Stanley, with more experience. So far, the album seems to be quite secular, without ditching his spiritual convictions. I like it a lot. Wish my bike had a sound system... it would make great riding music. Guess I'll get an ipod.

As for Wayfer music, yes, much of it was banal, and far too much was hokey or amateurish. But we were doing stuff. I loved Bob's stuff, and Lisa Tracy's Treasure in an Earthen Vessel was inspired, in the strictest sense of the word. True Way is one of my all-time favorite songs. "We need to show, show the Lord Jesus Christ."

motorcycles? did someone say motorcycles?

The only thing would have made that scoot better, would be a shovel head engine and Harley wings

I thought everything Lisa Tracy did sounded the same. I liked Takit, Joyful Noise, Sammy Prine, Bob's stuff is fine, it's maddening that he is so stubborn.

Oh well,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but Dot Matrix and Excathedra and other "Corps" heard VP say he was being inappropriate with daughters?

You had to be in residence before me, I was 14th I am DFAC. Which I call it, Done Farting Around with Carnals.

I am kinda mad at you ladies. A lot of people would have been saved the hurt and agony had you gone screaming from the room and told on him.

There are no excuses in my opinion for allowing that kind of behavior on any level.

So I would very much appreciate an explanation as to why you didn't say something. And please no rationalizations either. I would have run my mouth til they shot me dead. I am a survivor, I had to endure being raped, beaten up, choked, shot at, by an earthly brother for years. I told on him, it didn't stop him, but when I told God to kill him, it finally ended. June 26, 1976 that pig suffered a slow horrible death and died. Only within the past couple of years have I been able to forgive him and let it go.

So why didn't you tell somebody? Anybody?

I find it suspect at best that all the accusations of VP and others only come out after they are dead. I think that is what most opposers have a problem with, if it happened, and I can't say it didn't, I wasn't there, why in the hell did you not speak up???????????? To me, it makes you just as responsible as the molester. You allowed it.

After reading this topic from beginning to now, this is the question that keeps popping up. IMHO, it never had to get as far as it did.

There is no politically correct way to ask this, but it does deserve some thought and an honest answer.

JLL

Dmiller is such a refreshing breath of fresh air, eh?

This one you may enjoy.

Rock of Ages 1984. Ending my first year in residence. Corps Week, assignment bless patrol. Richard Thomas, who I knew from Georgia, was the coordinator and put us at our spots.

At first, I had no idea where the rah ho I was. I saw a house, a parking area, a huge tree, teo metal chairs with puddles of water in them, a barn looking place, and Richard says, here you are....I said ok, where I are. This is the Wierwille patio. Crap, I won't be able to smoke.

I sat there for the longest time, saw people running back and forth to the pond, and I thought many many times to tump the water out of the second chair, didn't though.

Many hours later, who comes amblin out of the house, slamming the screen door but VP. Of course, I stood to hug him. And then we went to sit down, I sat and he bent about halfway, looked at me and said, I am going to get my butt wet, aren't I. I said, yep if you keep going. And he kept going. I did condemn myself for a while about this, but when i really thought about it, he knew he was wearing khaki pants, he could have tumped the water out, or just not sat down. We never said one word to each other and he sat there for at least 30 minutes. Grandkids came out and talked to him. When he got up, and this is hysterical, he did that shake the leg thing when he was walking away. Oops.

i agree, lucy

and i'm sorry. i'm glad you're better

well, no one could ever be "better" after having gone through what you did with your mom

i'm just so sorry. and i didn't mean to sound trite at all

We are all good.

We have all been through a lot. Laughter helps. Me loves to laugh.

I just am saying, somebody hid that kid raping maggot in that hospital somehow.

You should have seen my brothers face, I am looking at his picture, I read the story, and I am all up and down going he is in unit 6 right now......neither one of them were sure for a second if I was ready to come home.....

I want to clear up one thing. John Knapp is who he is and Wayne Clapp is the guy al you may be thinking of.

My question to John is why did you use the word troll?

I am already in therapy, been since 1993, bipolar. Slow cycler, on meds, doing great, stable as they say.

This could help people if they want to be helped.

me

thank you john knapp for your reply, i appreciate it

ps. to John Knapp

when you have a problem, it's an "opportunity" to believe God

there are no negatives, you see ? not in The Way :)

Quote from the moive Steel Magnolias, Ex, you are a regular smart a$$. Love that.

Catholics have not defended the priests who were found in sexual abuse cases, and the Catholic Church has even apologized for what has happened to many people. Heck, the Pope visited the US just for that! But it appears that TWI has not come out in the open about all the abuse and scandal in it. There is a large difference. Either TWI wants to keep everything undisclosed, or all the claims of scandal and abuse in TWI are exaggerated or should be treated as rubbish and feeble attempts to paint a black cloud over the white purity that is, in the minds of some, what TWI is.

Use your reason and decide for yourself.

~Phil

Now this I will take issue with. Now granted I had a nervous breakdown and was in a mental hospital at the time. My mom died in my arms and it freaked me out. That said,

When I woke up the Monday after Easter 1990, I was again in my right mind. Everyone was, for the most part, compliant, with what we were asked. There is different things they do to see how coherant you are, like waiting for you to ask for a shower, change of clothes, etc....There is one fella that sticks out like a sore thumb. Wiry reddish hair, NEVER spoke to anyone hospitalized. Did have female friends that visited him everyday., he also got a razor.....in a mental hospital, sharp things and shoe laces are no nos. I tried to talk to him, not a peep. I got out on a Wednesday, my brother and sister in law took me to lunch and I grabbed the paper (The Atlanta Journal Constitution) to see what was going on, and lookie lookie what I found, Father Mowat from Ireland being sought by police in several child molestations. The same guy that was in Unit 6 of Georgia mental health institute. That you have to admit is suspicious...... Now this statement Catholics have not defended the priests who were found in sexual abuse cases, and the Catholic Church has even apologized for what has happened to many people. Heck, the Pope visited the US happens to be untrue. Who do you think paid off the state of Georgia to hide the SOB.

I left enough clues, check for yourself. The Roman Catholic church does defend priests and they hide them, put them in places where they cannot be touched, or in this case, where no one suspects......

Use your reason and get a clue, your statement is erroneous at best.

Just so you know,

As soon as I spoke the Word the @$$hole came out of hiding. Tried to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about, and paraphrased God's Word, like it made him cool. And then he said go witness to someone new. Like he is above it all and i should kiss his ring or something.

I was being nice to the guy. Nice.

I feel stupid. But I tried to reach out.

So be it.

I would like to agree with you, but I can't. The class, as it is presented, it designed not to be a study, but more of an indoctrination. Study involves reflection. For me, study involves discussion. With the format offered in 3 hour chunks with no discussion of points, it loses the study aspect, at least for me.

[b][/b]That's a great point. Classrooms are not always quiet places, where you can't ask questions til the end, what if you can't wait, til the end?

It's been a long time since I've taken "the class," but one of the things I believe it does at the outset is set a tone for how other Christians are to be viewed - namely as stupid for believing things that are not the "obvious truth." Like most other Bible "studies," it is designed to lead you to a conclusion - one of those conclusions is that you are stupid to trust anyone outside of the organization because others have deceived you, perhaps unknowingly, but nevertheless deceived. I've sat through the class twice; once before reading the books, and then after as a team member. The second time I was bored out of my mind and found the continuous repetition mind-numbing. I was also more aware of the attempt to tap into people's emotions the second time.

The other thing the class does is set a person up to feel "special" for having all this "information" that is not shared throughout the Christian community.

I will tell you one thing that the PFAL class did for me - that was open me up to critical study of scripture, but I think that was an inadvertent side effect. I took the admonition to "don't take my word for it" as a kind of challenge.

I did, I never took anybody's word for anything. And I have found, among other things, that dispensational theology is unscriptural. wrath dnd tribulation are NOT synonomous, falling away is not flyin up, it is not a departure upward, and that the gathering together and the resurrection of the just ARE the same event. Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good. God expects that. It's a requirement for a workman

I didn't. Once through the class I read all the books and then started a critical review of the books compared to scripture and came away with my own conclusions, which didn't go over too well in my twig. I do believe the class will trigger critical thinking for certain types of people, but the typical PFAL grad has a huge need to stand out in some way and be accepted - something that was probably missing in a former life. Being told they are "called out" and "special" for having taken the class does something to these people, even as they are being abused by the system that tells them they are so special. I also think that it attracts more than its fair share of people with personality disorders, because it fills a need. I am reminded of Jesus' first great commandment, which is to love one another. I truly believe that instead of teaching the great truth - that we are to love one another - that the class teaches us to be wary of others and it leads to qualifying that statement, when I see no qualification. Furthermore, PFAL drills down the definition of "born again" to what is assumed is a very broad spectrum, but it ends up being just as, if not more restrictive, than a typical flaming trinitarian's view of what constitutes being "born again" or a believer.

I believe that "knowing" whether believing equals receiving, it was 3 or 5 crucified, how many times Peter denied Jesus, or whether one speaks in tongues is the true sign of receiving the spirit is irrelevant to Jesus' basic message. Well he did tell the 12 to go and wait for the comforter to come. ANd I agree, jesus Christ is who my lord and savior and master, is vitally important to how I handle life.

[b]The statement it's for our learning, as opposed to addressed to us, was a devilish ploy to keep people from experiencing the more abundant life, how can you receive training in the whole word, if you think all but 8 or 9 books don't matter because they are not addressed to you?[/b]

That message gets buried in all the the details of "knowing that you know that you know" and becomes lost. Is that really what you want for these people?

Just some thoughts, I reallys suck at trying to put my thoughts in others posts. Sorry, I hope you get the jist.

Lucy

About Us

Welcome to the GreaseSpot Cafe!

GreaseSpot Cafe is a gathering place, bringing together people and information. We welcome all who have an interest in The Way International, including former followers, current followers, and those who may have friends or family members who are involved. Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees. Our hope is that GreaseSpot Cafe serves as a place where those who have been impacted by The Way can make connections with people and information which will support their particular process of recovery.

We want people to be able to make informed decisions regarding their past, present, and future affiliations with The Way International (TWI). Whether you are standing with TWI, thinking about leaving, trying to help someone else get out, or looking for support from others who have left, we believe the information here is highly relevant and well worth considering.

Look at our WayDale Documents section and see for yourself what information has come to light as a result of lawsuits against TWI, resignations of various limb and branch coordinators, letters from Martindale to the Way Corps regarding controversial issues and policies, notes from actual Way Corps meetings, and much more. Consider the longstanding patterns of conspiracy at the trustee level, questionable doctrines and practices, ongoing cover-ups, and sexual abuse of numerous women at the hands of certain TWI leaders. It's no wonder that TWI is desperately trying to shield their followers from this information by warning them off the Internet. We think that if you give this information an honest reading, you'll see that you haven't been told the whole story.

Browse through our forums and read what people are saying about their experiences in TWI. Find old friends or make new ones. Elicit support or offer an insight. Share information or simply read and consider. The opinions expressed here are often passionate and while disagreements are not uncommon, the online Ex-Way community is a great arena for conversing and connecting with others. You may get caught in a food fight now and then, but unlike TWI, GreaseSpot Cafe is a place where questions are encouraged and people make up their own minds.

No Shirt, No Shoes... No Problem!

Last Updated ( Thursday, 08 June 2006 )

Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees.

Actually that statement implies adverse, opposite or Anti even though it's quoted as an EX-Way community.

You may get caught in a food fight now and then...Dang-we must be at a feast!

I thought that's what I read before I clicked agree. So Groucho, by attacking, wanting to ban VPapologists, you are actually breaking the rules, ad asking others to go down the primrose path with you. So that said, Groucho......in my left hand I have a big ol spoonful for chocolate pudding, my right is pulling back the globby filled spoon, now you just sit still......quit squirming, you know you got this coming,.......stop squirming, it won't hurt, PLOP, gottcha, FOOD FIGHT!!!!!!

And Miss Abigail, you are right, somepeople did get involved after 1988. Point of clarification, those who were around before 1988 and stayed either weren't paying attention or they bought into the scene. Is that better?

Sorry Abigail. I got ol Groucho pretty good, right between the eyes........splat!

Lucy.

FUBAR: Eff'd Up Beyond All Repair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUBAR

It's a military term, thanks Rocky for helping her. I forget not everybody grew up around the fubars I did.........Tell her what a SNAFU is.

lucy, what's a fubar ? it's taken me a lot of pages to remember that question.

but i did save this one quote from you: the 1988 comment as noted a few pages back.

That wasn't very nice. Were you just trying to make a point?

--

Yes, and not very well. I corrected myself with Abigail.

And sorry everybody if I hurt your feelings. I was angry with Groucho and forgot I was writing to the nations.......my bad.

Are you for real? Constitutional rights?...What in the world are you talking about?...We all signed up when we registered here...we all agreed to follow the rules of the website...the only rights that anyone has here is what Pawtucket allows...He owns the place.

...and you're ready to send me to Iran to be shot in the back?...holy cow! get a grip!... You can think anyway you want to...I really have no interest in how you think. Started an argument?...Maybe so...but I felt that it was time to state my opinion.

If I sent you to Iran with my friends, they would hide you and protect you, it would be the Muslims that would take pot shots at you. THE POINT Grouchy is yes there are rules in place here, and hopefully will protect those that oppose your views as well as yours.

That is just that, your opinion, so instead of involving everyone in this issue, why didn't you simply go to the moderators with your idea.

If you like to argue that's your bag, I am for common sense and allowing that to prevail.

BTW: Did you happen to read the rules posted for this site? You may want to take a refresher course. The answer to your query is right there.

I don't want any harm to come to you, the point was when you have all your freedoms stripped away you see how valuable they are, not only to You, but to all your countrymen.

I am going someplace else, this thread is a drag.

Sounds a little kinky to me...You aren't friends with Karen Greaser are you?

Who? Oh you mean the lady from CES that likes to channel fubars? Nope, don't know her. Heard of her though.

I am just saying, you can say what you want, and I know you are defending the people that have come forward with their stories, and that is sweet, not everybody has to believe it. That's their choice. They don't have the right to attack anyone for speaking up, those folks need to be mature enough to let it go and not fight every battle.

Gee whiz, if half of you folks had stood up with me against the BS that I saw (and I am not the lone ranger) we could have stopped all this mess before it got as bad as it did.

I stood up, I said my peace, I got blown off, I walked away. Anyone that was stupid enough to stay after 1988 deserves whatever they got. The signs were all there. People were screaming their heads off for years. No one listened. Fine, don't listen, you get what you get.

How's that for a hard line way of thinking?

Alright Lucy, now you are just too damned funny and we CANNOT have funny people posting at the cafe!! It simply derails the threads and lightens the tension, and that is NOT ALLOWED!

p.s. Forgot to add - I totally agree with you 100% about men peeing sitting down. They simply cannot aim that thing well enough to pee standing up. Hell, in a house with two boys, there are many days when I think MY aim would be better standing than theirs is!!!!!!!!!!

Yes maam sir maam, Miss Abigail maam, I will try to keep the humor down. SHAME........... Tension makes me uncomfortable. My family laughs at funerals. The more macbre, the funnier it gets. We are truly sick people.

We wouldn't have to work so hard to clean the bathroom if they would aim. Okay I got, toss in a Cheerio for them to aim at, keep a bowlful on the tank, they have something to do, and we don't get our feet stuck to the floor because they were watching a fly go up the wall.

Just a thought.

I am so blessed that that entire experience did not leave us jaded.

I am so very happy that I proved all things and held fast to that which is good. God's Word is good.

This isn't directed to anyone poster in particular but if the shoe fits...

Guess what? This isn't the only forum I frequent. There's one for my local community, Harry Potter fans, Mac computer users, dog rescue, and others that I also visit. I read a lot of opinionated discussion - and that's fine and well - as long as people remember one thing...

"Don't be easily offended and don't offend easily".

ChasUFarley, i hate to do this to you, but we need a laugh in this thread......

i am afraid I cannot abide your being in a forum for Mac users, it's against the law...somewhere......I am a Mac opposer. and I think Mac's whould be outlawed. I think they are.

(watch some numbnut is going to read this and start a gossip thread that Mac's have been outlawed....just watch)

Lighten up people. We survived right.

Lucy

Rah rah, biss boom bah...this is not a court room. You are confusing your constitutional rights as a citizen of the United States with your being a guest at a private website...people come here to relate experiences and share opinions...they don't need to present court room evidence here.

Groucho, I don't know who teed teed in your Cheerios and really I don't care, you have offended me with each of your posts, do I go and tattle on you? NO, I ignore you, until you insulted me and the other people that saw the point of what I said. You don't have the power or authority to tell people how to think. In my opinion you just started another argument by starting this thread, and I am not a guest.

When you forget your constitutional rights and the rights of others to speak, have opinions and say how they feel you may as well be in Iran. you want to go live in Iran. I will pack your bags. I know someone who will get you in, you can stay with them. When they (the Muslims in charge) shoot you in the back for being a subvertor, I will come back and get your body. You have no idea how good you have it, and all you care about is someone who has an opinion different from yours.

Try this on for size: I think all people should pee sitting down. I do, so I think you should too. And we should get rid of all urinals, and make men sit down to pee because they certainly are too stupid to figure out how to pee on their own. It's just as ridiculous as you saying ban the sympathizers....Ban the books, burn the Bible. Use your head.

People have the right to say what they think, no yelling fire in a theater, no calling 911 when there is no emergency, people have the right to disagree with you, or anyone else. Gee, you are against free thinkers. Do you want to be brainwashed again, have you learned to think for yourself, can you state your own opinion without violating anyone's civil rights?

I have related experiences and shared opinions, I also try to do it without hurting anyone's feelings, to present myself as a lady, and respect the rights of others, the topics discussed here are volitile at best, so to expect calm seas at all times is unrealistic.

Try to see the other persons point of view Groucho.

Sorry i got on ya, but you are totally missing the point.

Lucy

Just some food for thought

Not to sound like a flag waving, NRA carrying booby to anyone, but the second you take away someones free speech, although it may not agree with you, you are putting this entire country at peril.

What about the phrase, I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

If and I am saying if, because I witnessed nothing, and being a legal secretary, if you are not an eyewittness the testimony is heresay. And it can be refuted. If the story is true it will stand up to scrutiny, if it is not true, then it will fall apart. And we all want to be told the truth, right?

I am for free speech, and rebuttals.

thanks

Freelady, I believe that. That's what happened to me, too.

same thing happened to me too. i prayed God came to my rescue. Still works that way today.