lucyvanpelt

You don't even have the guts to state you real name and you think I have problems. Honestly........... How silly is that? I gave a copy of that PM to an administrator so that it's on the record. Now back to the topic at hand.... I think everyone has the right to speak their mind, if they have one. I am perfectly healthy. But thanks everybody for all your concern, take a look in the mirror every so often and don't be so quick to judge next time and give people a little credit. Look, let's face facts, there is no delicate way to say you were abused? Why is it, that it's ok for people to say Dr. so and so raped me, or Craig did this to me, but it's a problem when I share what happened to me. Let's face another thing, it happened over 30 years ago, I got past it, why can't any of you? How much worse can it be? Rape is rape. I am past it. You think you are so clever and above it all and aren't you smart for cutting people down? that aint' right............

Do you make this stuff up or do you have a writer on the payroll? I saved a copy of it sweetie, do you want to call your lawyer? I told you to shut up. Because you just like to dig until you tick somebody off. I'm still prettier than you.

I ain't beating myself up at all, I didn't do anything wrong. I am a direct person, I don't put dresses on dogs, I say it like I think it, It's the way I am. I just had questions. Believe it or not, I found this place when after 16 years I was looking to find a teacher of God's Word. I googled Dr. Wierwille out of pure boredom, and this popped up. Frankly, it made me sick so i clicked on the links and found Michael Cortright's family page, started clicking away and got inspired by one name and emailed him. And four years later, I am a whole woman. I asked this guy a million questions, praise God he is from New York and don't get all goopy when you ask a direct question, I asked him about the Way, VP, and PFAL, and he just taught God's Word, never belittled anyone, never insulted anyonw, respected what was, moves on with what is and the guy is a rock on God's Word. He calls me faithful and a Berean. Two things I never associated with myself. I was too busy in Waydom condemnation. Can I get a Witness? I think I got a good handle of God's Word now. All my collaterals got given away, same as you. i don't need them. All I need is my Bible, and a heart with no preconceived ideas that hungers for truth. That got me far. I got to go feed my honey bunny..... I am not angry. Want to call my house and talk to me. Trust me, I am not ....ed. I blew up at Dot after she attacked me. I didn't hit first, I hit her back. Fights' over. I am not mad.

Isn't dot precious at how she doesn't get all uptight and judgemental and uses your weaknesses against you? Isn't she loving, kind, considerate, putting herself in someones elses shoes before she grabs the butcher knife and starts hacking. I was only asking questions, I still stand by my post, I just didn't feel searchin all through here for the thousands of posts to answer my question. I figure they are big girls, I will just ask. You are truly paranoid Dot. Psst....so you know, there are lots of bipolar people. Here's a list. So not to hurt your feelings, but I would rather be locked up in a pen with them, then to be in Tiffany's with a million dollars with you. Capice? Ned Beatty Maurice Bernard, soap opera Jeremy Brett Jim Carey Lisa Nicole Carson Rosemary Clooney, singer Lindsay Crosby Eric Douglas Robert Downey Jr. Patty Duke Carrie Fisher Connie Francis, singer and actress Shecky Greene, comedian Linda Hamilton Moss Hart, actor, director, playright Mariette Hartley Margot Kidder Vivien Leigh Kevin McDonald, comedian Kristy McNichols Burgess Meredith, actor, director Spike Milligan, actor, writer Spike Mulligan, comic actor and writer Nicola Pagett Ben Stiller, actor, director, writer David Strickland Lili Taylor Tracy Ullman Jean-Claude Van Damme Robin Williams Jonathon Winters, comedian Artists Alvin Alley, dancer, choreogapher Ludwig Von Beethoven Tim Burton, artist, director Francis Ford Coppola, director George Fredrick Handel, composer Bill Lichtenstein, producer Joshua Logan, broadway director, producer Vincent Van Gogh, painter Gustav Mahier, composer Francesco Scavullo, artist, photographer Robert Schumann, composer Don Simpson, movie producer Norman Wexler, screenwriter, playwright Entrepreneurs Robert Campeau Pierre Peladeau Heinz C. Prechter Ted Turner, media giant Financiers John Mulheren Murray Pezim Miscellaneous Buzz Aldrin, astronaut Clifford Beers, humanitarian Garnet Coleman, legislator (Texas) Larry Flynt, publisher and activist Kit Gingrich, Newt's mom Phil Graham, owner of Washington Post Peter Gregg, team owner and manager, race car driver Susan Panico (Susan Dime-Meenan), business executive Sol Wachtier, former New York State Chief Judge Musicians Ludwig van Beethoven, composer Alohe Jean Burke, musician, vocalist Rosemary Clooney, singer DMX Earl Simmons, rapper and actor Ray Davies Lenny Dee Gaetano Donizetti, opera singer Peter Gabriel Jimi Hendrix Kristen Hersh (Throwing Muses) Phyllis Hyman Jack Irons Daniel Johnston Otto Klemperer, musician, conductor Oscar Levant, pianist, composer, television Phil Ochs, musician, political activist, poet John Ogden, composer, musician Jaco Pastorius Charley Pride Mac Rebennack (Dr. John) Jeannie C. Riley Alys Robi, vocalist in Canada Axl Rose Nick Traina Del Shannon Phil Spector, musician and producer Sting, Gordon Sumner, musician, composer Tom Waits, musician, composer Brian Wilson, musician, composer, arranger Townes Van Zandt, musician, composer Poets John Berryman C.E. Chaffin, writer, poet Hart Crane Randall Jarrell Jane Kenyon Robert Lowell Sylvia Plath Robert Schumann Delmore Schwartz Political Robert Boorstin, special assistant to President Clinton L. Brent Bozell, political scientist, attorney, writer Bob Bullock, ex secretary of state, state comptroller and lieutenant governer Winston Churchill Kitty Dukasis, former First Lady of Massachusetts Thomas Eagleton, lawyer, former U.S. Senator Lynne Rivers, U.S. Congress Theodore Roosevelt, President of the United States Scholars John Strugnell, biblical scholar Scientists Karl Paul Link, chemist Dimitri Mihalas Sports Shelley Beattie, bodybuilding, sailing John Daly, golf Muffin Spencer-Devlin, pro golf Ilie Nastase, tennis Jimmy Piersail, baseball player, Boston Red Sox, sports announcer Barret Robbins, football Wyatt Sexton, football Alonzo Spellman, football Darryl Strawberry, baseball Dimitrius Underwood, football Luther Wright, basketball Bert Yancey, athlete TV & Radio Dick Cavett Jay Marvin, radio, writer Jane Pauley Writers Louis Althusser, philosopher, writer Honors de Balzac Art Buchwald, writer, humorist Neal Cassady Patricia Cornwell Margot Early Kaye Gibbons Johann Goethe Graham Greene Abbie Hoffman, writer, political activist Kay Redfield Jamison, writer, psychologist Peter Nolan Lawrence Frances Lear, writer, editor, women's rights activist Rika Lesser, writer, translator Kate Millet Robert Munsch Margo Orum Edgar Allen Poe Theodore Roethke Lori Schiller, writer, educator Frances Sherwood Scott Simmie, writer, journalist August Strindberg Mark Twain Joseph Vasquez, writer, movie director Mark Vonnegut, doctor, writer Sol Wachtler, writer, judge Mary Jane Ward Virginia Woolf So, the ability to overcome is this illness is there. You aren't anybody to me, you are a made up name in a cyber community of disgruntled people. I just made my point.

Oh you are kidding. I wish I had known that, I would have told them to shove that green card. I can't believe that I never sniffed any of this out til now. Now I am really ....ed. Makes me want to plow that whole area slap under. Man, if my parents knew this, doo doo would have hit the fan. My daddy knew people. High up in government people, people that like to eat non profits for lunch people. They supported me in this endeavor. I am sick to my stomach. Idios.

I appreciate that you responded. My remarks were never intended as curt, if you or anyone takes them that way that is YOUR reading something into what is honestly not there. I just wanted to know where were you, did your head pop up and look around to see if anybody else heard what you just heard? Did you try to do anything at the time? Were you scared? At that point I don't think I would have "told" anybody, I would have packed my stuff and headed on down the road. BTW, when I first got wind of some this crap, that is exactly what I did. Nobody was holding at any of the root locales against our wills. If that happened, I will be shocked. Yeah, I knew Teri Gill was banging Craig, we confronted her, she blew us off (not literally) and went about her business, i never had anything to do with her again. If she wanted to bang him, have at it, it's her business and Craigs's and she ws not forced against her will, it's how she got him to do Athletes of the Spirit to begin with. Dr. told him not to, he wasn't going to, and that female talked him into it. I was there for that, I know that to be fact. I would not have thought anyone possessed who was forced to do anything against their will. Nope, you have no idea what you are talking about. I would have called my dad, gotten you a lawyer and that would have been that, I always defend the weak. And yeah, I am strong. God made me strong. And I am sorry that any of this happened to anyone. Because it stole God's Word from you and others like you. NOT PFAL, whatever God's Word you knew, was queered, stolen, forever harmed because of all this. And that makes me so mad I want to go to HQ and dig that grave up and stomp his foot... You have NO idea how I fought and what I fought and whom I confronted.. Dot wrote that. that's what I was asking, with as mouthy as you are, I know you had to have done something. I am just trying to figure out how far extended this was. It seems that you, however, you are still eating poop and calling pabulum. Dot wrote. I am not judging anyone here, I am asking questions, and you have no idea who I am, what I believe and who I associate with. YOU ASSUME. I truly hope you heal from the horrors of your childhood. But with your adherence and defense of the “cult” I think you are a long way from being healthy. So, I will disenfranchise myself from your post at this point – because frankly, it is just too easy. And I do not want to push you over the precipice on which you teeter. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Dot wrote. I am completely delivered from the abuse my brother caused me. To the end that I know miss him, I remember his football heros, his all time hero, Johnny Unitas, Roman Gabriel, O.J. Simpson, Bart Starr, and Bruce Lee. He loved green. The whole thing. Every shade and every tint, and I also remember that the very very first time it happened it happened so fast I didn't remember it, he only got mad and sought revenge when i rejected the act, he thought I rejected him. So if I see him again, it won't bother me. I forgave him. It's over. And it feels great! i do not associate with the Way, I do not freely avail myself to the Way, I have not had anything to do with them since June 1988. Bob Stanley is the first innie I have talked to since I packed my crayons and went home. And he is deluded to say the least. I am healthy, ask my shrink. I am what they call a 4 month patient, I go once every four months get my meds, and move on down the road. If they thought I had a problem, I would still be in therapy. Maybe you don't know what healthy is, perhaps?? Honey, you aren't woman enough to rock my boat. I'd have to give a s###t about what you are saying first. And none of it phases me really. I live in reality world, I also live my life based on God's Word which is what I have learned from 2004 til today. And frankly a lot of that was excising the wrong teaching that kept us away from the truth. And besides that God likes me. He just favors me, because I am stupid enough to take Him at His Word. So if I am crazy, fine, call me crazy, I don't care.

I had no intentions of being prickly, and I asked Excathedra and Dot Matrix the questions since Dot mentioned they were both in the room when Veep said he molested his kids, I was looking for a timeframe, what was the mood of the country and TWI at the time, and since doojable wasn't there, can you step back and let me speak with them. If you think that my questions were railing, maybe you are paranoid. I am righteous, as righteous as you, if you are born again. Don't make me self righteous, I think you are again paranoid. For somebody that doesn't care for self righteous smugness, you sue made a lot of ASSumptions. You don't even know me.

Could you please speak English? TWI1, TWI2, TWI3, what is that?

I knew this was going to cause a problem, but chose to post anyway because I think it needed to be addressed. I was around the Way from 1980 until 1988 as I have stated before. And in that time I never had an inkling about any of this. As an incest survivor there are hints, clues, something to warn you of the danger. The only time I was even made aware that "leadership" was not to be questioned was when my own Corps sisters told me about Craig, and people in AOS. Before that, it was not pushed on me. There were lots of people to tell, Shelby County Police, they were looking to shut down the farm, The FBI, your parents, a sibling any grown up with any sense would have helped in the situation. Perhaps you weren't affected by your situation in the same way they were by theirs. Fine. Perhaps you simply live in denial of how you felt in your situation - I don't know. said by Abigail I went from 80 pounds to 250 pounds in 6 years, hoping if I made myself ugly, he'd leave me alone. I bit my nails to stubs, I skipped two whole quarters of school, I made f's when I did show up because all I could think about was where can I hide til my parents came home? I lashed out at everyone, I started to tell a teacher, but my brother went to the same school, my own friends didn't believe me when I told them, when I did finally tell my parents, my mother had no reaction other than to keep preparing to out, and my dad tried to chop his pee pee off but missed, and that only served to make him even more mad. I was prey. And after that came the real threat, in the middle of the night, something he had never done before, he snuck into my room, clamped his hand over my mouth and said, "It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, and it might not be next year, but I AM going to kill you" The look in his eyes told me I was screwed. Which is why i went to the woods to my spot and told God to kill him. I had done nothing wrong, I didn't bring any of this on, and I wanted a chance to have a happy childhood, so get him gone. 6 months later he died in a car accident. He suffered for three hours before he died. ah, what a pity. I thought Good, he should have suffered for an hour for every minute of torment I endured. And that is the key, I endured and I won, He has been dead since 3:42am June 26, 1976, and I am still here. I had no way out, but I knew God, I knew God loved me and that what I was going through was wrong and He helped me get through it and got rid of the problem. It was so bad Abigail, I told God at 12, if Gary goes to heaven I don't want to go. I was trapped in a house in the 1970's when this type of problem was not discussed or dealt with, and I came out the other side whole. Finally. I don't deny any of how it felt. It is a sad day when a child feels safer outside then it does in its own house. Check out my jaw, it pops, why? He broke it. I have scars all over from the physical abuse, from a spoon, from a piece of glass, from a Zippo lighter, from being tied up there are scars on my wrists, I had screamed myself hoarse, maybe I just allowed God to heal me and got over it. Hmmmmm, that sounds like godly advice to me. I have found the longer you dwell on what the perp did the longer they exercise control STILL over your life. I forgave him. With that forgiveness which took years, trust me, came closure to the whole thing and I can talk about it and be objective about it, it doesn't hurt me anymore. It's just something tragic that happened when i was a kid, it does not define me now. But try to touch me if I don't want you to, first you will draw back a nub, and second, my relationship with God is stronger now that I don't have the bs from the PI and wrong doctrine we got taught, and God has rescued me from a perp back in 2004. God picked the guy up by the scruff of the neck and tossed him off me. And that friends, is in the police report to the PLPD. I am not condemning anyone, I am asking what did you do, if anything, to try to stop this from happening to other people. Because within my own Corps, some of those girls were stupid enough to think it was an honor to have sex with "leadership" I asked them like I am asking here, don't you know right from wrong, you have the ability to think for yourself. No one in the Way ever tried to f### with my free will. I would have been gone so fast heads would have spun. That is the one thing that kept me from going insane in relation to my brother, he may have gotten my body to do what he wanted after all he was 6'6" 250 pounds of the meanest snake I ever met, and I was only 5' but he never got me to allow what was going on in my mind. I wouldn't let it. It was wrong, I knew it was wrong, and there had to be a way out. I never felt mind controlled, I felt pushed around, but I wouldn't allow it. In residence if I didn't like a job assignment, I would go and bitch and my job would be changed. It didn't hurt that my tuition was paid weeks before I hit the door. I never saw any of this side of this ministry, and never would have had I not googled vp in 2004. So what you people take for granted because "you have been in on it" for so long, this is still shocking to me. If it happened, I don't know, LIKE I SAID IN THE ORIGINAL POST, I WASN'T THERE. I am taking the word of people who hide behind fake names, so if being skeptical bothers you I am sorry, it's a lot of absorb, and if I have honest questions, I am going to ask them. My intent wasn't to start world war three, evidently, some of you are real prickly, I didn't know the answer to the question, so I asked. If you get mad and get defensive it is not going to help me understand where you are coming from.

The only thing would have made that scoot better, would be a shovel head engine and Harley wings I thought everything Lisa Tracy did sounded the same. I liked Takit, Joyful Noise, Sammy Prine, Bob's stuff is fine, it's maddening that he is so stubborn. Oh well,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but Dot Matrix and Excathedra and other "Corps" heard VP say he was being inappropriate with daughters? You had to be in residence before me, I was 14th I am DFAC. Which I call it, Done Farting Around with Carnals. I am kinda mad at you ladies. A lot of people would have been saved the hurt and agony had you gone screaming from the room and told on him. There are no excuses in my opinion for allowing that kind of behavior on any level. So I would very much appreciate an explanation as to why you didn't say something. And please no rationalizations either. I would have run my mouth til they shot me dead. I am a survivor, I had to endure being raped, beaten up, choked, shot at, by an earthly brother for years. I told on him, it didn't stop him, but when I told God to kill him, it finally ended. June 26, 1976 that pig suffered a slow horrible death and died. Only within the past couple of years have I been able to forgive him and let it go. So why didn't you tell somebody? Anybody? I find it suspect at best that all the accusations of VP and others only come out after they are dead. I think that is what most opposers have a problem with, if it happened, and I can't say it didn't, I wasn't there, why in the hell did you not speak up???????????? To me, it makes you just as responsible as the molester. You allowed it. After reading this topic from beginning to now, this is the question that keeps popping up. IMHO, it never had to get as far as it did. There is no politically correct way to ask this, but it does deserve some thought and an honest answer. JLL

Dmiller is such a refreshing breath of fresh air, eh? This one you may enjoy. Rock of Ages 1984. Ending my first year in residence. Corps Week, assignment bless patrol. Richard Thomas, who I knew from Georgia, was the coordinator and put us at our spots. At first, I had no idea where the rah ho I was. I saw a house, a parking area, a huge tree, teo metal chairs with puddles of water in them, a barn looking place, and Richard says, here you are....I said ok, where I are. This is the Wierwille patio. Crap, I won't be able to smoke. I sat there for the longest time, saw people running back and forth to the pond, and I thought many many times to tump the water out of the second chair, didn't though. Many hours later, who comes amblin out of the house, slamming the screen door but VP. Of course, I stood to hug him. And then we went to sit down, I sat and he bent about halfway, looked at me and said, I am going to get my butt wet, aren't I. I said, yep if you keep going. And he kept going. I did condemn myself for a while about this, but when i really thought about it, he knew he was wearing khaki pants, he could have tumped the water out, or just not sat down. We never said one word to each other and he sat there for at least 30 minutes. Grandkids came out and talked to him. When he got up, and this is hysterical, he did that shake the leg thing when he was walking away. Oops.

We are all good. We have all been through a lot. Laughter helps. Me loves to laugh. I just am saying, somebody hid that kid raping maggot in that hospital somehow. You should have seen my brothers face, I am looking at his picture, I read the story, and I am all up and down going he is in unit 6 right now......neither one of them were sure for a second if I was ready to come home.....

I want to clear up one thing. John Knapp is who he is and Wayne Clapp is the guy al you may be thinking of. My question to John is why did you use the word troll? I am already in therapy, been since 1993, bipolar. Slow cycler, on meds, doing great, stable as they say. This could help people if they want to be helped. me Quote from the moive Steel Magnolias, Ex, you are a regular smart a$$. Love that.

Now this I will take issue with. Now granted I had a nervous breakdown and was in a mental hospital at the time. My mom died in my arms and it freaked me out. That said, When I woke up the Monday after Easter 1990, I was again in my right mind. Everyone was, for the most part, compliant, with what we were asked. There is different things they do to see how coherant you are, like waiting for you to ask for a shower, change of clothes, etc....There is one fella that sticks out like a sore thumb. Wiry reddish hair, NEVER spoke to anyone hospitalized. Did have female friends that visited him everyday., he also got a razor.....in a mental hospital, sharp things and shoe laces are no nos. I tried to talk to him, not a peep. I got out on a Wednesday, my brother and sister in law took me to lunch and I grabbed the paper (The Atlanta Journal Constitution) to see what was going on, and lookie lookie what I found, Father Mowat from Ireland being sought by police in several child molestations. The same guy that was in Unit 6 of Georgia mental health institute. That you have to admit is suspicious...... Now this statement Catholics have not defended the priests who were found in sexual abuse cases, and the Catholic Church has even apologized for what has happened to many people. Heck, the Pope visited the US happens to be untrue. Who do you think paid off the state of Georgia to hide the SOB. I left enough clues, check for yourself. The Roman Catholic church does defend priests and they hide them, put them in places where they cannot be touched, or in this case, where no one suspects...... Use your reason and get a clue, your statement is erroneous at best.

Just so you know, As soon as I spoke the Word the @$$hole came out of hiding. Tried to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about, and paraphrased God's Word, like it made him cool. And then he said go witness to someone new. Like he is above it all and i should kiss his ring or something. I was being nice to the guy. Nice. I feel stupid. But I tried to reach out. So be it.

Just some thoughts, I reallys suck at trying to put my thoughts in others posts. Sorry, I hope you get the jist. Lucy

I thought that's what I read before I clicked agree. So Groucho, by attacking, wanting to ban VPapologists, you are actually breaking the rules, ad asking others to go down the primrose path with you. So that said, Groucho......in my left hand I have a big ol spoonful for chocolate pudding, my right is pulling back the globby filled spoon, now you just sit still......quit squirming, you know you got this coming,.......stop squirming, it won't hurt, PLOP, gottcha, FOOD FIGHT!!!!!! And Miss Abigail, you are right, somepeople did get involved after 1988. Point of clarification, those who were around before 1988 and stayed either weren't paying attention or they bought into the scene. Is that better? Sorry Abigail. I got ol Groucho pretty good, right between the eyes........splat! Lucy. It's a military term, thanks Rocky for helping her. I forget not everybody grew up around the fubars I did.........Tell her what a SNAFU is.

If I sent you to Iran with my friends, they would hide you and protect you, it would be the Muslims that would take pot shots at you. THE POINT Grouchy is yes there are rules in place here, and hopefully will protect those that oppose your views as well as yours. That is just that, your opinion, so instead of involving everyone in this issue, why didn't you simply go to the moderators with your idea. If you like to argue that's your bag, I am for common sense and allowing that to prevail. BTW: Did you happen to read the rules posted for this site? You may want to take a refresher course. The answer to your query is right there. I don't want any harm to come to you, the point was when you have all your freedoms stripped away you see how valuable they are, not only to You, but to all your countrymen. I am going someplace else, this thread is a drag.

Who? Oh you mean the lady from CES that likes to channel fubars? Nope, don't know her. Heard of her though. I am just saying, you can say what you want, and I know you are defending the people that have come forward with their stories, and that is sweet, not everybody has to believe it. That's their choice. They don't have the right to attack anyone for speaking up, those folks need to be mature enough to let it go and not fight every battle. Gee whiz, if half of you folks had stood up with me against the BS that I saw (and I am not the lone ranger) we could have stopped all this mess before it got as bad as it did. I stood up, I said my peace, I got blown off, I walked away. Anyone that was stupid enough to stay after 1988 deserves whatever they got. The signs were all there. People were screaming their heads off for years. No one listened. Fine, don't listen, you get what you get. How's that for a hard line way of thinking? Yes maam sir maam, Miss Abigail maam, I will try to keep the humor down. SHAME........... Tension makes me uncomfortable. My family laughs at funerals. The more macbre, the funnier it gets. We are truly sick people. We wouldn't have to work so hard to clean the bathroom if they would aim. Okay I got, toss in a Cheerio for them to aim at, keep a bowlful on the tank, they have something to do, and we don't get our feet stuck to the floor because they were watching a fly go up the wall. Just a thought.

I am so blessed that that entire experience did not leave us jaded. I am so very happy that I proved all things and held fast to that which is good. God's Word is good.

ChasUFarley, i hate to do this to you, but we need a laugh in this thread...... i am afraid I cannot abide your being in a forum for Mac users, it's against the law...somewhere......I am a Mac opposer. and I think Mac's whould be outlawed. I think they are. (watch some numbnut is going to read this and start a gossip thread that Mac's have been outlawed....just watch) Lighten up people. We survived right. Lucy

Groucho, I don't know who teed teed in your Cheerios and really I don't care, you have offended me with each of your posts, do I go and tattle on you? NO, I ignore you, until you insulted me and the other people that saw the point of what I said. You don't have the power or authority to tell people how to think. In my opinion you just started another argument by starting this thread, and I am not a guest. When you forget your constitutional rights and the rights of others to speak, have opinions and say how they feel you may as well be in Iran. you want to go live in Iran. I will pack your bags. I know someone who will get you in, you can stay with them. When they (the Muslims in charge) shoot you in the back for being a subvertor, I will come back and get your body. You have no idea how good you have it, and all you care about is someone who has an opinion different from yours. Try this on for size: I think all people should pee sitting down. I do, so I think you should too. And we should get rid of all urinals, and make men sit down to pee because they certainly are too stupid to figure out how to pee on their own. It's just as ridiculous as you saying ban the sympathizers....Ban the books, burn the Bible. Use your head. People have the right to say what they think, no yelling fire in a theater, no calling 911 when there is no emergency, people have the right to disagree with you, or anyone else. Gee, you are against free thinkers. Do you want to be brainwashed again, have you learned to think for yourself, can you state your own opinion without violating anyone's civil rights? I have related experiences and shared opinions, I also try to do it without hurting anyone's feelings, to present myself as a lady, and respect the rights of others, the topics discussed here are volitile at best, so to expect calm seas at all times is unrealistic. Try to see the other persons point of view Groucho. Sorry i got on ya, but you are totally missing the point. Lucy

Just some food for thought Not to sound like a flag waving, NRA carrying booby to anyone, but the second you take away someones free speech, although it may not agree with you, you are putting this entire country at peril. What about the phrase, I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. If and I am saying if, because I witnessed nothing, and being a legal secretary, if you are not an eyewittness the testimony is heresay. And it can be refuted. If the story is true it will stand up to scrutiny, if it is not true, then it will fall apart. And we all want to be told the truth, right? I am for free speech, and rebuttals. thanks

same thing happened to me too. i prayed God came to my rescue. Still works that way today.