rrobs

First of all, I really have no idea who at GSC believes the word and who doesn't. I don't care other than if you don't believe the scriptures then there is no point in discussing them, is there? On the other hand, if you do believe them then I repeat my statement: "Maybe you could give me your take on all of the verses from the original post. Maybe we are not supposed to love and forgive one another. Tell me why we shouldn't. If it makes sense, I'll change my believing accordingly." If you can't or don't want to do that, then you and I are done with this one. Maybe we'll do another one down the road.

What, exactly, did I write that leads you to believe I'm controlling and manipulative. For starters, if I were trying to control and manipulate people, do you really think I'd try to do it here? After all, GSC folks seem to a pretty discerning and independent lot from what I can tell. As far as I can tell from the verses I quoted, God exhorts us to love and forgive one another. Does he control or manipulate people to do that? I think he just says what is best for us and let's us make up our mind. If I hold out a tootsie roll out to you and you take it, does that make me controlling or manipulative? Maybe you could give me your take on all of the verses from the original post. Maybe we are not supposed to love and forgive one another. Tell me why we shouldn't. If it makes sense, I'll change my believing accordingly.

That's all you have to say about it? I think there were more words on that protest sign. Nonetheless, I'll try to get a real discussion started with you. How would you have put it so as to be a discussion and not a commentary?

Sounds like it might have ruined your life also. Sorry to hear that but don't worry, God forgives you.

I don't give a rat's a.s what others do. BTW, you wouldn't be judging me now, would you?

OK. Let's discourse. What is your opinion on the subject?

I googled, "shooters on psychotropics." Beaucoup hits. Here's just one: headline from https://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/ 36 School shooters/school related violence committed by those under the influence of psychiatric drugs Not to say you are wrong, but that's a lot of dead people because drugs apparently don't always work. The shooters in this article are ones whose drug information was available. I'd be surprised if many other shooters weren't also on psychiatric drugs. But I don't have any actual facts on that (too lazy and not that important to me), so don't quote me.

The light was good, it functioned in that it made the rest possible. It was useful. It worked correctly. That's why God called it good. We think in terms of morality when we hear good and evil. Morality has nothing to do with the material universe. Remember, whoever wrote the words as they were moved by God could only use those that he understood. It is important to understand what they meant by good and evil. The Bible is written on there terms, not ours. Otherwise I'd try to hide from God because I am supposed to "fear" him. This world is not completely non-functional. True enough. We are the lights of the world and so there is always some good (tov) to stop the whole thing from melting into oblivion because of the evil (ra). There is the verse in Genesis that says every thought of man was continually evil (ra). "Every thought" and "continually" are pretty strong words in that context. Noah was the only thing going for God. I would say the world at present is non-functional, at least as compared to the world to come which will be totally functional, the opposite of the world right before the flood of Noah. God does talk about the heavens and earth which are now as opposed as those to come. The former has some non-functionality in it, enough to some day blow it to smithereens. The latter will be pure good. I don't think our minds can grasp anything that is pure, but we will when the time comes. In that sense I guess, like you said, God is in control and has a plan which is perfect and right on target. Actually I don't "guess" that. I know it! I got the Celestron used for about $600 about 20 years ago. It was used in name only as it hadn't been out of the box, so a killer deal to be sure.

Unless you are satisfied being a raving maniac, you might consider this

OK. Here we go: 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1........=1 Mystifying is a good word for it.

Every system is still composed of dualities. The committee can only think of "this" or "that" when making decisions. The universe was (became, whatever) without form and void. Effectively there was nothing for a mind like ours to grasp onto. Then God made light and darkness. From there the rest came. In Taoism (as cosmology, not philosophy or religion) the state before the material universe was called tao. It also formless, therefore effectively there was nothing to see, hear, smell, etc. It was without form and void. Then the tao "moved" and yin and yang separated. The one became two. It then says that the two became three and the three became 10,000 things which was an idiom meaning infinity. So man registers the yin and the yang and makes some conclusion about the myriad things that compose our "reality." White is yang, black is yin. My mind registers the amount of yang/white and yin/black and then it can see the sky (light, yang) as a separate thing as the ground (black, yin). But if there was no white then there would be no black. Your mind could not make a determination in that case as to where the sky started and where the earth started. In other words, there would be no horizon to see. That is what taoism says about our reality. I'm not asking you to believe this. I'm not even saying I believe it, but there are some interesting parallels there with the Bible. Both Eastern thought, so maybe no surprise.

Where did quadruplex come up? Beyond mystifying to me.

Interesting article about news and our discussion. I just picked one from Google ("bad news and stress"). There are many more. Stress and Bad News

I don't recall hearing the term "mental consent" outside of TWI. That is why I thought it might be considered Wayspeak, which I try to avoid here in order to keep the peace. Maybe it is a term used outside of the way, I just don't remember having heard it anywhere else. I think you are right. Once something is in our minds, it's pretty much there. Still, God does talk about renewed mind, so there is something there to consider. In this dualistic world of ours getting rid of darkness would also get rid of light. In a sense, our human brains are nothing more than contrast registering machines. If everything in this world was white, we wouldn't see anything. If there were only one audio tone we wouldn't hear anything. If there was only one constant temperature, we wouldn't feel anything. Our minds need contrast to register anything from the outside world. That is why we really can't grasp God. He is one, but our minds need two. I wonder what it will be like to shed that duality and truly see all members of Christ's body as one and not me, you, T-Bone, Wordwolfe etc. Even DWBH and I will be as one. Hope that doesn't bum him out too much! I doubt it. He'll be fine with it when the time comes.

Uh, oh. Did I use more wayspeak? Scratch that from my post. You should be able to get the idea without it. I was just saying that the Bible is really too big for my brain. My brain is like a dark glass and the true light has a hard time getting through it. Something about renewed mind there. That takes time, but it will get through a little more each day. At the return the distinction will vanish.

One thing I'm wondering is what popped in the mind of the average person who lived 2, 4, or 6 thousand years ago in the Middle East upon hearing the word "science." Probably not what we think of it today. It probably would have been easy enough to see the stars and make some connection between them and the nature of God (Rom 1:20), but they had no clue as to the existence of DNA for example. Is there any allusion to DNA in the scriptures? I think so. Genesis 1 says several times, "after it's/his kind." So while they may not have known about DNA per say, they could in fact understand the basic concept. When we treat genetic disorders, we use high tech methods. That is what we have come to believe is the only way to cure such diseases. With God, it is only a matter of believing (Matt 17:20) to cure them. Both work, but God's method is simpler (at least once the difficult part of actually believing is accomplished), not to mention cheaper. Unfortunately, hard to really believe and bring into concretion. Hard is putting it mildly. But that doesn't affect God one bit, just us.

Answering your post in a vastly oversimplified manner, I would say that you are absolutely right about never getting to the level of Jesus. Maybe Peter or Paul, but that is the best to hope for and in my life. They may as well be Jesus, because unless something big happens, I'll probably never even rise to their believing. We are all going to depart this world sooner or later. That alone is proof that we all stop believing, that our believing has holes in it. But the flip side of the coin is that to some degree or another we all believe in things of the light. So our minds are filled with some light and some darkness. The ratio of light to dark is largely determined by what enters our minds from the outside. CBS, NBC, ABC, etc. vs KJV, for example. Some verses that may be of relevance here: Job 12:25, Luk 11:33-36, 2 Pet 1:19 Then there is still the whole idea that the word is true whether anybody believes it or not. There are innumerable volumes that make it plain as day that mental problems are purely chemical and can therefore be cured only by other chemicals. As far as they go, they are absolutely correct. Time has proven that they work to increase the quality of life for people with brain chemical imbalances. But are more chemicals the best solution? There are after all lot's of side effects on most (all?) psychotropics. Alongside the vast depot of human knowledge on mental problems is placed the Bible, the one lonely source that seems to say mental problems (indeed, any life problem whatsoever) can be rectified by believing in God and acting on his word. It might be said that giving chemicals is what God meant. Personally I think that is just an excuse. Not meant to condemn anybody. I think it is fair to say that we all make excuses for things we don't really believe in the scriptures (albeit less so as I grow daily in the word). There were no exceptions enumerated when the scriptures say all things are possible with God. Of course believing that is totally optional. Some do, some don't, all to various degrees of belief or unbelief. It's seldom if ever 100% either way. I may believe in more things of the Bible than some folks, but I also believe (to the point of acting) less of it than other folks. In fact much of what I've written I don't really believe myself. Just mental consent, without any appropriate action. The Bible is ideal in it's content, but my brain is certainly not ideal. But if I gave up on the word and just let the world fill my mind with negativity then the whole journey becomes to no profit. So I stay with the scriptures and little by little the light dispels darkness. I understand that there'll be some darkness floating round my frontal lobe as long as I walk this earth. But I also have the hope that one day it'll get cleaned out and degreased (no reference to GSC intended) until it is nothing but pure light. It's ironic that that will occur when I stop believing to live here. So do I have to stop believing to find our what true believing really is? I guess the answer is a qualified yes. I need to stop believing the things of the world to really believe the things of God. To do that I need to eliminate all sources of darkness, something that won't happen in this lifetime. Thanks Adam, you $%^&*^%@!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oops, sorry, I know you did your best and I probably would have thought that the knowledge of good and evil was the bee's knees also. See you in the basement (doctrine section).

I'm only responding to part of your post because, for the most part, I totally agree with what you said. But, there are some things I'm wondering about concerning the above part which I did quote. On one hand I think you are absolutely correct. There are chemical imbalances that we can't seem to cure with the word and nothing but the word. And yes, we (excuse the "we". if it doesn't apply to you, then change it to "I") have made pretty lame excuses when we can't cast out what we think are devil spirits. But what about Jesus, Peter, or Paul? They did not seem to resort to drugs/therapy to cure someone with mental problems? Jesus said we'd do the works he did (and then some). So is science the missing ingredient to our knowledge of "life and godliness" or is it the nemesis, man's logic/wisdom holding us back from believing the word? 2 Peter 1:3 doesn't mention science, just the scriptures. But then again, does true science align with the Bible? TWI said so, but I've not seen it for myself in the Bible. I'm open on that if anybody knows. What then is "true" science? Does not science dictates we give drugs to cure a mental imbalance? Is that what the Bible says though? Is that what Jesus thought? I tend to think not, but that is just from my life experiences and how they affect my believing the Bible. I think these are good questions. Hopefully they will start an discussion. Take care...

I can not answer your question because my only source would be from the word. From what I can ascertain I don't think that would be acceptable to you. We'll just leave it to a difference of beliefs. Of course there is a lot going on in the mind of any mass shooter. What made you think I didn't think that? I guess I just think God is more capable than you. Doesn't make me better, smarter, more godly, or anything else. Just seems to be the case. I don't think I've attached any negativity to you because of what you believe. At least not intentionally.

I often tell people that I am witnessing to that I'm just telling them what the book says (to the best of my ability, not always right. who is?). Their believing the things I say is totally optional. I sleep well because of what I believe, not because of what somebody else believes. I don't think that those who believe otherwise than myself are a lesser person. What if I had thought that about Saul? I would have been surprised down the road! Simply quoting a Bible verse to someone is often taken as "shoving it down their throat." It's an interesting book in that regard.

Not to negate your point, but I personally would hate to find out that the Bible is nothing more than a collective evolutionary writing over generations. Why? 1Cor 15:19, If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. I'm counting on the Bible being the word of God and that everything he says in it is true and will come to pass. I cracked up on your bacon wrapped armadillo eggs. One of the funniest posts I've seen. Thanks for the laugh!

Point taken. You have valid claims. Thanks for the input. It has helped. I'll take it to heart for my next post. I always like to improve.