rrobs

1 minute ago, waysider said:

If you need a non-scriptural concept to make sense of scripture, you may want to reexamine your methodology.

1Cor 12:5,

And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

If it's in the scriptures, it's scriptural. My methodology is to read it. If you understood that sentence, why the problem understanding 1 Cor 12:5? Both pretty straight forward language.

3 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Not being clever.  We're not trolling, remember?

 

Doesn't the trinitarian view have more dimensions to consider?

 

A little clarifications please. Give me one or two other dimensions we should consider.

20 hours ago, waysider said:

I see a lot of cherry picked scripture references supposedly supporting a man-made concept. What I don't see is something showing me the Bible has been sub divided into neat little compartments. But, hey, if that's what you need to make it all fit like a hand in a sock, more power to you.

Been to the garden of Eden lately?  Or how about the new heavens and new earth, been there lately? Of course not! Why? Because they are different compartments. We are currently in the grace compartment.

You are right about me needing different administrations to make sense out of the Bible. At least I can.

On 7/4/2017 at 11:08 AM, waysider said:

That's a huuuuge assumption, especially when you factor in chronology.  Remember...the gospels were written quite a bit AFTER the epistles. At any rate, the audience would have been limited and you can't know what depth of understanding someone might have come away with.

Regardless of when the Gospels were written, Jesus said a lot of things to the Apostles. Now, because the written Gospels came some time later, we didn't know what he told them, but they certainly would have known what he told them. So now, after the Gospels were written, we too can know a lot of what he told them. No assumptions needed...it's all written down for anybody who is interested.

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

 

Or you might say the one that does not make sense is more valid.  

If you can make sense of it then it is probably too much of a simpleton as far as any god is concerned.

The cleverest bunch I ever ran into!

3 minutes ago, waysider said:

Definitely not maybe.

Looks like we're done with the trinity. What's next guys?

4 hours ago, waysider said:

Yes...and no.

or maybe

2 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

What about them?  

(I'm asking in all seriousness)

Is one (it does make sense) as valid as the other (it does not make sense)?

I'm being serious, sincere, and I shall never troll here again. I promise. It was a one time thing. Just discussing the trinity with you now. You made a good point so I'm answering in all seriousness. I think we can both let our guards down and discuss doctrine which is my favourite subject.

5 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

I would start a new thread about "The Mystery" if that's what you'd like to discuss.

I think you missed the point of my post.  I wasn't neither arguing for or arguing against TWI/Bullinger's take on "The Mystery".  It served a role in TWI/VPW dogma.

There are perspectives in which The Trinity makes sense.  One that doesn't involve some conspiracy theory to force the idea on people.  

If you can't see from those perspectives, of course it just won't make sense.

 

I was replying to T-Bone on the trinity when I came across Bolshevik's post talking about the mystery in the trinity forum.  I guess I went off topic to discuss that with him. I guess I should have just told him to stay on topic. Next time. I'm learning.

I'll get back on topic...

I think I see what you mean by saying there are some perspectives in which the trinity makes sense. True enough. How about perspectives where it does not make sense?

On 7/3/2017 at 5:55 PM, T-Bone said:

Or - - John 1 is talking about two divine beings – in the beginning the word was with God (that’s one divine being) and the word was God (that’s ANOTHER divine being). That does make sense to me. Your assertions that it must be a figure of speech because it makes no sense to you or that the word becoming flesh is a figure of speech are groundless. What is the name of the figure of speech? “Nonsense”?

you pointing out the clear verses that show God and Jesus are two distinct beings - I don’t have a problem with – because I believe they ARE two separate beings. Perhaps looking at the clear passages that speak of Christ’s divinity – like in Philippians 2 and Colossians 2 might help you understand my viewpoint.

 

 

 

Maybe you are right. But maybe not.

The phrase "the word" is repeated 3 times in John 1. All three times it is O logos in the Greek. That "O" is the word "the." It points out a particular thing. It is not at all like saying "a word." If it did say "a word" I think you might be correct. But "the word" is something different. All three references are to "the word." "The word" is always "the word." Not one "word" here and another "word" there.

I think Christ certainly had a divine nature. Now that you and I are born again, so do we. Part of the new creation God created in us. Now I don't know about you, but I'm sure I'm not God. You're probably not God either.  My divine nature doesn't make me God nor did Jesus' divine nature make him God.

I didn't check out Phil 2 or Col 2, but I will.

On 7/4/2017 at 2:10 AM, Bolshevik said:

I remember a lot of talk in TWI about "The Mystery".  Which was explained away as Grace.

Life is full of mystery.  It seems in TWI the mysterious, the unknown, that which can't be explained, was simply unacceptable.

You've got to narrow your perceptions quite a bit to appreciate such certainty.

Forget what the Way said about the mystery. What does the Bible say about the mystery?

Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 2:7, Eph 1:9, Eph 3:3 & 4, Eph 3:9, Eph 6:19, Col 1:26 & 27, Col 2:2, Col 4:3.

There is more, but that's a start. I googled "mystery hidden in god" and got almost 8 million hits. That'd keep someone busy for a while. God's word does explain the mystery. It's got nothing to do with twi making anything unacceptable. Actually, twi has nothing to do with the mystery. It was God's idea several thousand years before twi even came on the scene. I wouldn't s..t can the whole idea just because vp taught it. You can easily see that plenty of others taught it before vp. Bullinger comes to mind. I think he has a really good idea on the mystery. Check this out:

Bullinger - The Mystery

In fact, that one is so good I'm going to put it on JBI, which now, only I can access.

On 9/24/2013 at 3:27 PM, Ham said:

I don't know if this is more a question, or an invitation to discussion.

A neighbor gave me a slightly older computer, and IBM type with pentium 4 and Windows XP Pro (legally) installed (whoo hoo!) I was looking for a second system that would run more modern scanning software. And maybe Linux.

It was ready for the landfill.. but apparently the previous owner tried to save it. What I found inside: a gig of memory, and 500 Gig SATA drive. The original was an IDE.. the cord for it was still intact (minus hard drive).

And bad capacitors inside. I assume with the attempt to recover the machine, the owner found anomalies during the boot process, and "hiccups" at various inopportune times. So I broke out the soldering apparatus, and replaced the capacitors.

The machine was then stable, after letting it run for several days.

So for the dual boot idea: I didn't want to mess with the partitions on the SATA drive, so,

I installed an 80 gig IDE drive, using the cable that was left in the machine, disabled the SATA drive in CMOS and then booted up with Ubuntu CD and installed it on the IDE drive.

Now to boot from Linux or XP, all I have to do is disable the one drive in setup and enable the other one right after hitting the power button..

and one system cannot "mess with" the other.

I used to have a dual boot with Linux and XP. I hardly ever booted into Windows so I took it off.

Instead I installed "Wine" which is a Linux program that allows many, many windows programs to run under Linux. I only use a few programs from Windows, theWord, a scanner radio program, and some network tools. They all run seamlessly under Linux. You can't tell the difference between those and any other Linux program. You can click on a Windows .exe file and it runs just like it was on a Windows machine. It's pretty neat.

As far as the Windows Office programs go, I use OpenOffice which I'm sure is on your Ubuntu distro. Never had any compatibility issues. I send out a lot of documents, spreadsheets, etc to people with Windows and they've never had a problem. The day I realized I didn't need Windows at all was a good day. I hate Windows!

Enjoy your new machine...Rich

On 7/4/2017 at 11:53 AM, waysider said:

There is nothing in that verse that even remotely suggests the bible is divided into separate compartments.

Without going into further detail, i might suggest some other discussions that have taken place of that very same word that has been translated as dispensation in that verse. I'm not very good at searches but there is a search window at the top.

The word dispensation in Ephesians 11:10 is the Greek word oikonomia. In other places it is translated administration.

Strong's Concordance: administration (of a household or estate).

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Morish Bible Dictionary: Dispensation, oikonomia.   This is literally 'administration of a house,' an 'economy,' and hence an ordered dealing with men by God in the varied administration of his ways at different times. In reviewing God's administrations with man, we may notice the state of innocence in Eden, though it hardly partook of the character of a dispensation. One law was given to Adam and Eve, and obedience was required, the penalty being announced if they failed.

This was followed by the lengthy period of nearly 1600 years till the flood — a time of no ordered dealing of God with men, during which men corrupted their way, and the earth was filled with violence. Then the world was 'spoken to' by God in the person of Noah, who was 'a preacher of righteousness;' and their repentance was waited for in long-suffering mercy while the ark was preparing. 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5. They repented not and the old world was destroyed. In the post-diluvian world government of man by his fellow was established by God, while a knowledge of God, as a God who judged evil, was spread abroad by the descendants of Noah; traditions of the Flood being found all over the earth. This was an additional testimony for God. Then followed the division of the earth into various nations and tribes, according to their families and tongues. Among these ignorance of God prevailed in spite of the testimony of God's power and divinity, and the admonition of conscience spoken of in Rom. 1, 2.

About 360 years after the deluge the Patriarchal Age was begun by the call of Abraham, a new and sovereign dealing of God; but this was confined to Abraham and his descendants.

The Dispensation of the Law followed, strictly the first publicly ordered system of God's dealing with men, and administered by angels. The oracles of God were given to a nation, the only nation in all the earth that God had known in this way. Amos 3:2. It was the dispensation of 'Do this, and live and be blessed; disobey, and be cursed.' This dispensation had three phases:

a.   About 400 years under the Judges, when God would have been their king, but during which time every one did that which was right in his own eyes.

b.   500 years as a kingdom under royalty.

c.   600 years from the captivity to the coming of Christ. Connected with this was prophetic testimony: the law and the prophets were until John. Luke 16:16.

During this 'Dispensation of Law' the Times of the Gentiles commenced in the political supremacy of Nebuchadnezzar, the head of gold and king of kings. Dan. 51:37, 38. They still run their course, and will continue until the Lord Jesus commences His reign.

2.    The Dispensation of Grace and Truth commenced, after the preaching of John, by the advent of Christ. During this economy the gospel is preached to every creature under heaven, and the calling out of the Church takes place, extending as a parenthesis, from the day of Pentecost to the rapture of the saints. Acts 2:1-4; 1 Thess. 4:13-18. Paul had a special 'dispensation' committed to him by God, both as to the gospel and to fulfil the word of God by the doctrine of the church as the body of Christ. 1 Cor. 9:17; Eph. 3:2, 3; Col. 1:25, 26.

3. The Dispensation of the Reign of Christ over the earth during the millennium. It is also called 'the dispensation of the fulness of times.' Eph. 1:10; Rev. 20:1-6. See MILLENNIUM.

Under these varied administrations the goodness and faithfulness of God shine out, and the failure of man is everywhere made manifest.

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Lot's more info on the web. Just Google it. God bless.

2 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Rob's, I really don't understand why you keep posting here.  I post here because it makes me think.  But people keep asking you questions, and you keep giving them insipid answers.  I think you enjoy ....ing people off; I have a brother like that.  He has mental problems; what's your excuse?? 

Well, I was going to save this for DWBH because I don't want him to wear out his 'z' key, but I'll let you have the privilege (you may call it something else. Please, feel free. ) of receiving my final post in this forum. Besides, you asked me for an excuse and you deserve to hear one.

When I first came here I was sincere. My first post was something as benign as saying I didn't care how I learned the word, I was just glad I learned it. Didn't call anybody anything. Well, the first few replies flamed me to the point that if you are right about me and I end up in a lake of fire, at least I'd be used to it. Despite what a lot of people thought, I got the message loud and clear. Nobody wanted to hear my BS. OK.

Then I thought, "hmmm. I think I play with their heads for a while." So Grace, you hit the nail on the head. I put on my troll had and hit the road.

I think it's true to say I caused something of a stir. As far as I know I won a grand total of 0 adherents to the flock I need because my $102,000 pension isn't enough to live on (somebody here was curious about that).

Now here's why I was so mean. I quickly realized how quickly gsc can go anti-someone. No problem as far as it goes but it does pose a serious question? Would it not be just as easy for someone else to come here and win the hearts and minds of one and all. A gentle, kind, intellegent, caring man. All his words would ring as true than anything else you've ever heard. His knowledge of the Bible surpasses all the great theologians that ever lived. You could fall for him just like you did with VP. But it would still be a man. You haven't learned anything since the breakup. Your source of truth went from VP to GSC.

I remember VP saying in an advanced class, "You kids just have head knowledge. You don't really believe it." As much as that may prick your sensibility, it's the absolute truth. You still put man's word above God's word. You seek out the doctrine you want not what God wants you to know. Grace, you have a mind. Put more of God's word into it. Not saying you're not doing that now, but you need to do more. And I'd leave this place in the dust. Wouldn't that be something if you actually took a troll's advice.

So now, I shall take off my troll hat and head for the basement. You guys can get back on subject. Frankly, I'm surprised they've let me stray off for so long. Must be forgiving folks! Thanks.

53 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Rob's, yes he would have liked me, but I think he would have called you a hypocrite; I am quite serious about that.  JC knew when people were real, and when they were using him for their own agendas.  

Yes Jesus knew only to well people's agenda, but here's what your missing:

1Sam 16:7,

But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Then there's:

1Cor 4:3,

But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

27 minutes ago, skyrider said:

 

 

Yes.....you are misreading my reply.

Being "in the minority" isn't necessarily a good thing.......

...........you'd be IN THE MINORITY if you were heading down an eastbound interstate highway going west.  Drivers would honk, flash their lights, call 911 on their cellphones, helicopters would hover overhead and cars would swerve to AVOID YOUR RECKLESSNESS. 

Every driver would notice your presence........and yes, you'd be "in the minority" as a danger on the highway.

True. It's not always a good thing to be in the minority. But in my case and in Jesus' case it is a very good thing.

18 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

yeah....I guess it’s a matter of one getting used to the smell; whenever someone comes to Grease Spot dumping a load of that oh so pungent drivel of wierwille bull$hit – you can bet the stink is rather odious if one hasn't been around it in a long time.

Didn't you say you were an old guy somewhere? Never know from your responses. Very childish.

37 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Could you please state when it would be needed?  Is it for one reason or many?

1Cor 12:7,

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

If you want the profit, you need the hs. If you don't care about the profit, hs is not necessary.

On 7/4/2017 at 2:46 PM, T-Bone said:

for some reason I thought of that session in PFAL that covers willingness and ability...there's a line in there

"I have a jack but I'm not going to help you..."

i dunno...i tend to think maybe there's a lack of both

But you'll never know for sure.

On 7/4/2017 at 11:23 AM, waysider said:

rrobs

No one is attacking you. Disagree with some of your points? Sure. But, not attacking you. Do you not realize that what you assume to be "the word" is really just someone's private interpretation of it? Sometimes you can spend years, even decades, thinking you understand a verse or section of scripture, only to find you were mistaken about it's meaning. It's just simply not possible to "know that you know that you know". Learning is an adventure. You can never be quite sure where it will lead you.

Disagree with "some" of my points? I can't say, "hello" with without getting accused of being possessed by vp a spirit. LMAO

8 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

If someone gets hit with a lightning bolt that could mess with their heart and they should probably go see a real doctor.  

Haven't been to a doctor for ages and ages. God healed me from the lighting strike.

25 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

rrobs, I read your life story you left back in (what happened to the post #'s).  Not sure why you wrote it on this thread.  

Didn't say anything about the kids or friends or family.  

I did google Children of God.

Still don't know what to do with Holy Spirit or holy spirit or why it's needed.

 

Well, holy spirit is not actually needed. It depends on what an individual wants out of life.

1 minute ago, Bolshevik said:

rrobs, So Children of God refer to the holy spirit as the "Dream Queen" or the "Holy Queen of Love".  http://www.eaec.org/cults/cog.htm

That's actually interesting.

Can you expound on that?

 

 

Well, given that I was with Children of God for one whole evening and never went back (I think I conveyed that in the post), I didn't get very much of their doctrine. And what little I did get is pretty much gone with the wind. I don't remember a thing really. More than 40 years ago. I honestly never knew much about them. Just know that their prayer is what caused me to believe unto righteousness.

2 minutes ago, chockfull said:

That sounds like a country western song.  Maybe it goes a little like .....

 

It does. I wasn't trying, just happened I guess. Good catch!

7 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

rrobs, I read your life story you left back in (what happened to the post #'s).  Not sure why you wrote it on this thread.  

Didn't say anything about the kids or friends or family.  

I did google Children of God.

Still don't know what to do with Holy Spirit or holy spirit or why it's needed.

 

Then ignore it.