Hope R.

This might be a bit off topic, but I've been playing around with alternate tunings for the past couple of months - mostly revisiting Joni Mitchell songs.

I found these sites really interesting and a way to look at tunings without actually needing to hear the note the string is tuned to...

Joni Mitchell Tunings Notations and

Joni Mitchell Tuning Patterns

They're fun to play with.

I also found some really wonderful strings called Cleartone. I switched from Extra Light to Light because of all the alternate tunings -- there's not as much twang when I tune down. These strings are expensive - but really worth it, IMO, I think they're much better than Elixirs - which I never cared for anyway! They're supposed to last 3 times longer than D'Addario or Martin Strings. Mine aren't that old yet, so I'll let you know it that's really true. It's been a couple of weeks and they still sound brand new.

Copenhagen -

No apology is needed - I was just kidding around...

To answer your question -- The 1st through 3rd Corps programs were 2 in residence years in a row at HQs. VP started the Interim year with the 4th Corps and those Outreach Cities in 1974. That's when it became a 3 year program.

There were about 80 5th Corps if my memory is correct - and they started off at HQs. TWI purchased Emporia in 1975 and many of the 5th Corps lived there getting the place fixed up for the 6th Corps which was the first Corps to be in residence in Emporia full time. We had no "elder" Corps - the 4th remained at HQs for their last year in-rez. We had LCM and Sunny S@^ders and a handful of 5th Corps who were assigned there on their interim year as our elders.

I don't know exactly when the "apprentice" year started - but I'm sure it wasn't in place for the 6th or 7th - though it was strongly suggested that you went WOW or into a Fellowlaborers program before going in residence. I was actually kicked off the WOW field 6 months before I went in-rez! Just goes to show ya they'd take ANYONE back then

Hope R.

PS: socks, 3cents, alfakat, Evan, or anyone with a better memory -- please feel free to correct my foggy facts!

I'm in Tampa and we all LOVE Tony Dungy down here. Truth is - the only year the Bucs won the Super Bowl was the year after the idiots who own the Bucs got rid of Dungy. So many people thought it was John Gruden who won it for them - but it was the team Dungy put together and coached. See where the Bucs are now and it's obvious that Gruden doesn't deserve squat. The jerks who got rid of Tony Dungy deserve what they got... the Bucs suck GO COLTS! YEAH TONY D!!!!

RADAR!!!!

WHERE THE HE!! HAVE YOU BEEN????

xoxox

Hope

The first large Corpse was the 6th in 1975 (VP pronounced it "sickth"). Prior to that, TWI could only take as many Corps as HQ's had beds. Then they bought Emporia..

The 1974-75 WOW year was the 4th Corps' interim year - the year of the first "Outreach Cities". 28 WOW's to a branch with a Corps branch leader in several major cities (can't recall how many). The WOW rovers were 4th Corps as well. These interim Corps were a real influence on the WOW's that year. I believe (and there are other Sickth Corps here at GS who might have a better memory than I do), that the majority of our Corps came from the WOW program that year. It was a case of exponential growth plus more bunk beds!

We started out with over 350 people in 1975. I recall LCM asking us how many of us had been in "the ministry" for more than 3 years. Only about 1/3 of us raised our hands. Most people had gotten witnessed to, taken PFAL and the Intermediate class, went WOW after the ROA 1974 and then went right into the Corpse. Many were not Advanced Class grads and took it for the first time the following May. We had a really young average age as well. I was all of 20 when I went in. I think Sue D. & Murphy P. were the youngest - straight out of High School for the most part.

I know why I went in - and it wasn't entirely altruistic. Sure, sure --- I wanted to help people and "move the word". But to be honest - I went in because it was the next step - the next rung on the TWI ladder. Lots of my closest friends were going in the Corps, so I wanted to go as well. I also wanted to play music and be part of Way Prod and figured that was the path I had to take to get there. After all, Joyful Noise was put together from musicians who went into the 4th Corps.

The only truly great thing I can say about the Corps is that I met some of my dearest friends there. I got to know people from all over the country and other parts of the world. I would never have met them had I not gone into the Corps program. (I also met some a$$#oles I never care to see again - but that can happen anywhere, I guess!). Seriously, I have friends who I still keep in touch with that I was fortunate enough to meet through TWI and the Way Corps. That alone was worth it.

Hope R.

PS John Richeson's site is a 7th Corps web site. We sickth corpse get no respect!

Hey Griff...

FYI - Pinklady and I have known each other for many years. Our 19 year olds were born a week apart!

Everything she has said about this local group and it's leaders is factual. I've know others who are still involved with them and they're out there where the buses don't run. I don't know about any others who might be connected to them - but these guys seem very cult-ish and IMO, a bit dangerous because of their need to keep to themselves and their total denial of anything that's critical of them. Sound familiar?

Anyway - email me if you want to continue the discussion.

Hope R.

My daughter traded in her original Epiphone Les Paul and added some $$ to get a a Gretsch G3978 Historic series hollow-body. It's about 7 years old but there's not a scratch on it. This isn't hers - but it's the same model.

We've got a very cool guitar shop here in Tampa called Legends. They buy and sell used instruments and have some great deals. Socks - you'd love it. The guys who run it are a couple of old guitar lovers. I hope they stay in business for a while. Guitar Center and Sam Ash seem to pull in most of the musicians here - and shops like Legends tend not to last too long.

PINKLADY!!!!

Call me ---

As far as CFF is concerned...

You go to a nice church, why bother with anything else right now?

CFF is a nice group - but they've had their internal tiffs as well. It's more touchy-feely than most of the splinter groups I've heard about -- I think they're trying to be like TWI was in the 70's. But what will happen next is unknown. Look what happened to TWI!!!!

Churches are more stable. A large church has a lot to offer. No one is looking at you too closely and you can keep as much distance as you want to from the inner workings of the church.

We couldn't do that in TWI, they always wanted more... Go WOW, go Corps, give more money, take another class, go to the Rock of Ages, take another class and on and on.... Churches make lots of stuff available - but aren't watching over you to make sure you do them.

Like I said -- call me -- we can go to International Plaza and get lunch again!

xoxoxo

Hope

What a coincidence! I had a lovely woman who used to live in our area call me last week. She and her husband and kids had just reloacated to S. California. Her husband is involved with the NFL - and recently got a position in San Diego. I was happy to hear from her - she was always a kind and generous soul and never had a bad word to say about anyone - almost naive, actually.

Anyway - I was surprised to hear that they were still in TWI. She gave me the whole "it's so much better than it used to be" and "changed for the better" stuff. She wasn't trying to pull the wool over my eyes - she honestly feels that way. BUT -- she added that they basically go to fellowship and go home and aren't really involved in any other TWI functions (although she said she'd been to the Advanced Class last year).

We talked for a while and I told her some TWI war stories about the BC here and the way we were treated after we got the boot. I also told her how nasty he was when my daughter and I ran into him a couple of years ago. She wasn't surprised! She said she NEVER treated anyone like that and thought it was wrong. She also believed that buying a house was a good thing, that there was no way someone could get a house for cash, and mortgages were necessary. We talked about a bunch of things she disagreed with.

It really makes me wonder why people who disagree with TWI's current policies continue to stay involved. She loves God very much, that's obvious to me. When I hung up, I was really sad. I know these folks are probably being taken advantage of because of her husband's career - so TWI doesn't pick on them too much.

I almost wanted to un-witness to her - but I know it wasn't the right time. If they've stayed in this long - it's going to be hard to convince them to leave.

One of the things I've noticed on this thread is how many of us didn't speak up about the "slave labor" we performed.

Face it - we were used, in more ways than digging ditches.

As Sky said:

...I found out things that were very disturbing to me. In the early 90s, Martindale had taken his license of lust and was "jumping the bones" of several that I knew.

Whatever we were asked to do - it was expected of us. Very few said "no" for fear of the dreaded M&A status that would be imposed on us if we refused.

Remember the verse "Whatsoever ye do, [work] heartily as unto the Lord and not unto men" ? That verse was held over our heads if we ever challenged their work day requests --- we were bullied into thinking that if we were doing something for out leaders, then we were doing something for God.

Hope R.

PS: I don't know if it's still linked to GS - but check out the article by Rev. Patricia Liberty titled "Why It's Not An Affair". I still think LCM bears full responsibility for his actions. Those that kept their eyes closed and mouths shut bear the responsibility of doing just that. I think you can apply that to every decision that LCM made without consultation. But again - that's another subject....

I remember at Corps week long ago, a buddy of mine got reproved for not having a good attitude while working in the breakfast tent. He replied " Hell, I paid good money to work here!"

Too funny, Hal... and so true.

I wish I could remember when we started calling the ROA the "WORK" of Ages!

Hope R.

PS We paid you when you wallpapered for us, didn't we? (I sure hope so!) Love to N. and the girls....

I was cleaning the grout on my kitchen tile today. It's an arduous job, so I'm doing one section at a time when I have a chance. As I was scrubbing out the dirt with a toothbrush - I thought:

"Hmm - if I were my former branch leader's wife, I could have a branch 'work day' -- I'd get about a dozen people over here -- give each of them a toothbrush and tell them to do the work. It'd be finished in no time! All I'd have to do is buy a few pizzas when they were done and I wouldn't have to lift a finger!"

Forget about all the remodeling, cleaning, painting, landscaping, sewing, etc. many of us did when we were in residence (well, don't forget about them, but BESIDES that...), how many of us raked and painted and cleaned our Limb or Branch coordinators houses when we needed to do work on our OWN homes, under the pretext that God would bless us for our work, we should be thankful for the opportunity to bless our leadership - or some other bs like that.

If I want someone to clean my house or mow my lawn - I PAY THEM TO DO IT! How about baby-sitting for their kids?

What kind of stuff did you do to "get blessed" that you would normally get PAID for? I know there are tons of stories out there....

I've only read the first couple of pages of this thread and I've come to a personal conclusion...

I AM SO FREEKIN' THRILLED THAT I NEVER GOT INVOLVED WITH ANY TWI SPLINTER GROUP AND NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER WILL!!!

OMG - this is like TWI in the late 80's all over again! Hasn't ANYONE learned ANYTHING from their experiences?

Someone way up on page 2 or 3 said to get away from this stuff as fast as you can... I couldn't agree more.

Hope R.

ps - Hi Sushi!

Thanks LG - but for some reason - I can no longer find the "edit" button in this new format... is it me????

Another observation I’ve seen is the difference between the people who took part in the different aspects of TWI. Here's my 2¢ -

TWI 1: The Early Years – c. 1970 – 1985 (pre-dead-MOG) – peace, love and Jesus. Disillusioned middle-class, white teenagers and college kids flock to the farm in Ohio with VP and Dotsie. Everything is illuminated. Liberal peace-niks morph into Nazi-youth. Absolute power corrupts absolutely – LCM has some oil poured on his head and becomes der Fuhrer of New Knoxville.

TWI 2: The POP Years – c. 1985 – 1990/1991 – LCM in his “fog”, splinter groups form and 3 major categories emerge.

TWI loses 4/5ths of it’s followers. The remnant wait around for something to happen.

TWI 3: LCM Reawakens! – c. 1991 – 1999/2000 – LCM teaches Galatians, discredits PoP and those who believe it. Demands loyalty in a 4 page letter. Makes new classes, cancels “old wineskin” programs like WOW and the Rock of Ages. Homophobia and no-debt policy are major doctrinal issues. VP Who?

TWI 4: The Waydale / Grease Spot Years – c. 1990 – present – LCM is exposed thanks to the power of a few brave individuals with a knowledge of the internet. More people leave. Lawsuits are filed and settled. Rosalie Rivenbark installed as president. After that, everything is pretty much downhill.

So it’s not necessarily how long you were in – but WHEN you got in and WHEN you got out.

What I’ve observed is that many people who were involved from the 70’s until shortly before VP died still defend their involvement and belief in all things TWI. They may have been involved for 10 to 15 years – but it is still all “hunky dory-dory” to them.

Then there’s folks like me and Sky – who were there in the early years and stuck around too long -- perhaps because of some kind of mis-guided sense of loyalty. I was in for 29 years – got in in ’71, out in 2000. I saw the good, the bad and the extremely ugly. Trust me, the 70’s were a picnic. Perhaps I would still love the Lord with all my heart if I had gotten in and out by 1980.

Then there are people who got in and out in the 90’s. For them, TWI might have been okay for a couple of years or less. They never knew that it was once a “fun” cult. To them, Eve was always a lesbian.

So before I judge folks who still think VP had it all right, I consider when they were in and when they got out. I don’t think anything can change their minds because their experiences were NOT mine. They can’t change my mind for the same reason. I don’t agree with them and they don’t agree with me – but I’ve given up trying to get them to see things my way. Unless you’ve been there, you can’t.

xoxox

I have to honestly say that the Family Camps I went to on Shelter Island back in the 70's pretty much solidified me into TWI. It was one of the sweetest times I ever had. Up to that point, I still had one foot "in the world" and one foot in TWI. After those couple of weeks, I was 100% sold.

Unfortunately - it was probably all down hill from there. But my memories of that summer are still wonderful. And I don't think I'm sugar-coating them, either. It was the best of times...

Great point, Skyrider - and I couldn't agree more.

I have very fond memories of my first few years in TWI in the early 70's. Everything was peace, love and Jesus. Once people started coming, the need for control grew greater, therefore the need for "leaders" who were control-freaks grew as well. The more control-freaks, the greater the manipulation. Ane more control-freaks became attracted to programs like The Way Corpse. And though not everyone in the Corpse was a control freak - there were plenty of them to go around.

Then LCM -- the Grand Master of Control Freaks took over - and it got worse and worse and worse. The longer one stayed in the fold, the more control was enforced - so it was truly a miserable place to be. But by then, some of us had been in so long that we actually believed that TWI was the only way to Gawd and his Woid - the only rule for faith and practice. The longer one stayed the harder it was to make the break. All the good things from the early years had been brushed off as "old wineskins" or "dwelling in the past" including the teachings, the music and the people who'd left - the "cop-outs".

Hindsight is always 20/20. I think I would have had good memories and be more of a TWI defender if I had left in 1981 or 1982 - or at the latest 1986/87 - which still would have been too long, but a good time to get out with everyone else. Unfortunately, I stayed in until July 2000 and have more bad memories than good ones. But that's another story...

People have been on staff for 26 years??? Yeee Gawd

I think Joe & Linda C*ulter have been there longer, as have Rosalie and Donna M.

Reminds me of that Paul Simon song:

"Hiding in my room, safe within my womb

I touch no one and no one touches me

I am a rock.... I am an island...."

Imprisoned - yup - by Elitism and Arrogance.

IMO, the reason so many people have titled responsibilities is to make the organization seem larger and more affluent than it really is. How impressive it must look to outsiders or newbies who know nothing of TWI or its history -- all those names, all those important titles!!!! "Minister" of facilities, U.S.A. operations, finances and International Operations - wow - he must be reallllllly important! And there are 14 members in the president's cabinet! They must have a LOT to manage in order to justify having that many staff to their followers. Hmmm - wonder what their responsibilites are?

I was sad to see that Joseph & Paula Wr*n are still involved. What lovely people they are - at least I hope they still are. And Rev. & Mrs. Moneyhands are in the UK... how nice for them. Too bad their only child and grandchildren are on the farm... so far away.

I'd better stop before I get really nasty....

I'm not finding this test on the link either of you posted.... is it me?

Kool-aid is crappy when you take the sugar out

Brilliant! This one belongs on GS Gems...

They changed the circle drive...

Campus Map

You can also go to Google Earth and see it from above. It's blurry, but you can see the streets. The address is 1320 C of E Drive,

Emporia, KS

WINO!!!

Have a wonderful birthday.... and perhaps a bottle or two of THIS!!!

Hope R.

I went to see it for the first time either right before or during my first year in-rez while I was home on vacation. It was a midnight movie that ran every weekend. It was so much fun... people with squirt guns, umbrellas, throwing toast... I think it was the first time I remember hearing the term "cult" movie.

Years later - my daughter went to a special showing at the Tampa Theater (an old movie house here in town)on Halloween night and experienced much of the same - except they had actually hired "actors" to perfom up in front of the screen, not just folks who came to play along on their own. She did say there were squirt guns and toast - but no umbrellas.

Here's the IMDB link to The Rocky Horror Picture Show

According to the site -- the next TV airing is on VH1 at 12:30 am on October 31st.

Let's do the time warp.... again...!!!

This makes me so sad.

To say the least, these kids are in for a huge let-down.

Their arrogance reminds me of what a lot of us were like when we were in our teens and early 20's and thought we had all the answers. No one could convince us otherwise at the time.

I hope and pray they get far away from their TWI comfort zone and learn what other people believe. Their world is so narrow.

:(