Vertical Limit

Thanks excy, you have a heart of gold.

You're too funny Danny :D-->

Ok, forgiveness.

The man who murdered my brother.

When and if they ever catch the punk. Forgiveness will not be a part of my thinking.

I will be glad when they sentence him to death.

Should this man really ask for forgiveness from me and my family from his heart I might just do it. And may even use my influence to change the sentence to life in prison.

Justice must be considered as well as forgiveness. In this lifetime.

Am I bitter towards this man? No. But justice must be served in this lifetime.

But God is just and true and truely the one that holds the power of forgiveness for each one of us. The sins shall be burned away and we will abide with him forever. His son paid the price for sin. Therefore it is paid in full. No Judgements from God in the next life, except that the suffering of loss will happen from the fire of God. What is left will continue.

Maybe I should rephrase...

rascal, catcup don't see it.

It's plain to you and I but not catcup.

peace

I don't know rascal, I guess she missed it.

Maybe it's time to let it go...up to you though.

For the record, Catcup, I thought you and Geek said some good stuff about forgiveness.

has she asked what?

"My question to you is are you ready to try some forgiveness?"

This one includes rascal also.

"Consider what forgiveness may bring to you."

This statement includes rascal.

"We all have been hurt by lcm and his henchmen, or by other people connected with twi. Some of the offenders are no longer affiliated with twi, some are dead, others are still sitting pretty in that outfit."

This statement singles out who to forgive...

"Consider what forgiveness may bring to you. Does anyone want to talk about this?"

Is that it? The reason why? Maybe...I'm not sure.

The insinuation is there because Geek is asking us to consider forgiving. Implying that he knows what means to forgive. I would like to know what he thinks it means to forgive. I don't have it down pat either.

For me, today, it's simply to not hold a grudge against someone.

I don't get why you are getting on rascal's case, Catcup. She stated what she thought. Just because noone else has said the same thing don't mean nothing.

Neither you nor Research Geek have cornered the market on this subject. As I hope you know.

I'll present my question again-

Research Geek-Why do you ask these questions about forgiveness?

That's not an accusation of contempt but an honest question also.

To forgive or not to forgive.

Is that the question?

I wonder-What is your reason for asking?

TWI used this concept and developed it's own doctrine on the subject only to enslave it's own people even deeper into their pocket-and they still do the same things again.

What does it mean to forgive?

JC said forgive them Father for they know not what they do. What about the ones who know what they are doing? There maybe a line drawn in the sands of time.

Revenge belongs to the Lord. Yet we have done things to expose their wicked ways and free the minds trapped in TWI's snare.

The Lord will come to each of us and the wheat will be separated from the chaff. We are warned by JC to be ready.

I don't think the way of salvation or getting born again or getting saved is done by way of playing mind games with scripture. Do this one and get that one sort of thing.

Seek and you will find-someone said. If you think you have found it, you have stopped seeking. But do they really know they have found out how to be born again? Or just mentally jacking off with their new found formulas.

Born of water and spirit......the birth of the spirit is not in scripture manipulations but from the heart.

Jesus is Lord-Who is Jesus?

I don't think you have to be a "christian" to be born again.

What does it mean to love thy enemy? And can we love them, or anyone, if we don't first love ourselves? Can we know what it means? Can we see ourselves in them or them in us?

Good questions Abigail. Within 'em are the answers. And healing.

"self-emergence as enlightenment, compassion and virtue."

hmmmm---yeah scarey isn't it. You might just like yourself. Change is a scarey thing.

If you put your fears away, you might just like what emerges. But take your time about it, there ain't no hurry.

Love your enemies....where are they?

While Sirg's posts may seem out of the ordinary and foreign to the mind-his first post on this thread is the most simple and logical post on loving yourself and loving others that I have ever seen.

The self ego tends to attack what it does not understand instead of listening and considering and maybe even trying it out.

Sirg does not need me to defend his words but I have tryed some of his counsel and have benefited from it.

The damned daily grind of life gets in the way too often though.

I get to peace a lot more though then I used to. I wish I could take a month or 6 to just practice some of the things that sirg has suggested.

And also, hey Cool Waters, sorry for sounding like I'm picking a fight or something. Must be the redneck in me. :)-->

Thanks Sirg,

Much needed input from you here as always.

My brain gets so crowded sometimes...

Hey Cool Waters...cool name.

I think holy spirit was always available. Even in the old testament.

1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow

And when Adam and Eve sined and saw that they were naked, they were ashamed and hid themSELVES. I wonder what tree they were hiding behind? The garden of God has many trees. God was still talking to them though.

There is no need to hide behind our shame or anything else. What was taken out of the way and nailed to the cross? We have what Adam and Eve had before they went up the wrong tree. Even after they blew it God never left them. Spirit never left them either.

Where is the Garden of God? What runs through our veins with every breath. The tree of self stands tall and wide at times.

Many things were used to break the attention off of one's own self, like a burning bush that wasn't burning, or an *** talking. Or a pillar of fire.

Some hid themselves. Some followed Jesus and others said he had a devil. In Acts 2 3000 believed and were saved and others said they were drunk. Who has ears to hear? And when? In God's good time I reckon.

Yes cool comparisons.

"sealed with that holy spirit of promise"

that would be believing unto salvation.

That spirit is closer than we think-even for the unsaved.

Truth believed awakens the understanding and brings to light things that have been hidden.

I find it interesting to look at all the places "spirit" is used in the bible.

It talks about it being in us as you know, but where exactly is it in us?

1st usage bible fans;

"And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters"

Still does I think. Just have to stick our heads above the water to see it. Man is made of almost all water.

whatcha think?

O and I don't think there is "gift and giver" as pfal says, but that there is one spirit-holy spirit. And I'm not talking about bad spirit or unholy spirit either, I'd rather spend time on the holy spirit which is God.

This is what I want...

Hear me speedily, O LORD: my spirit faileth: hide not thy face from me, lest I be like unto them that go down into the pit. Cause me to hear thy lovingkindness in the morning; for in thee do I trust: cause me to know the way wherein I should walk; for I lift up my soul unto thee. Deliver me, O LORD, from mine enemies: I flee unto thee to hide me. Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness. Quicken me, O LORD, for thy name’s sake: for thy righteousness’ sake bring my soul out of trouble. And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant.

Still breathing!!

Breathing in the darkness

Breathing out the love and light

Painful---Yep both of 'em.

I have to forget myself to do it-or should I say stumble through it. And remember who to trust with all my heart. Breathing in the darkness...somehow it makes sense.

The christ...a burning fire within.

Will it change me? Scarey thought. Or perhaps even transform....

But there is something to this. Funny, you really can't do just one of them and live that life within. Just breath....

Without questions there would not be answers.

Answers generate more questions.

Questioning is an honest response when you don't know. When you think you know, Question the answers.

Notice the word question has "quest" in it. Life is a journey, a quest.

And have fun.

My short thoughts on the subject.

To all who have prayed for me over the past few months. And that have an idea of what I have gone through.

Especially to Sirguessalot who shined a light that could not be ignored. Showing me much and that Love is the answer and the balance.

Excathedra, Kit Sober and others who can See, you know who you are.

Thank you from every ounce of my heart.

Hope, Faith, Charity. I can hardly believe it but the greatest is Charity out of a pure heart.

Can't say much more without crying again.

You are in my prayers and supplications to God Almighty. Thank God for his Son Jesus the Christ.

Love Forever.

Well said Oakspear.

I think there was some good bible taught in the class. And a lot of self-promotion and teachings that served the teacher rather than the Lord. And Yes it did cast a "spell" on many. When 1 thing is proved wrong in the class, other parts are on shakey ground also.

For me I had to take it apart in my mind then reboot in order to prove to myself what was the good I got from the class. It seems there was a few good things in it, in my opinion.