TheEnd
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Posts posted by TheEnd
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Thank you all for your responses. You are all so kind.
I really needed a vent. Having no one close makes me lonely and this stuff bottles up with nowhere to go.
Sorry for dragging you through my ditch.
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I miss her, but my ramblings have been here long enough.
[This message was edited by TheEnd on January 31, 2004 at 13:34.]
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Craig et al, got the derogatory connotation from Bullinger. Check his companion bible. It's in the comments on one of the verses containing the word Christian.
As for the word being derived from "christ in you," I've seen nothing indicating that outside of VPW's mouth and doesn't seem to have much basis especially since it is using English to make the connection.
From what I can tell, chistian means "follower of the messiah." Messiah means "the anointed one" and refers to a king (recall David calling Saul God's anointed one). The derogatory implication may come from the fact that the "unbelievers" saw that he was dead, so they were followers of a dead king.
Such is what I know and have opinionated.
I think you can check any 90's tape with Craig teaching on it and find him bashing "christianity." He always had to compare TWI with everyone else, show how TWI was right and everyone else wrong, usually with a condescending raised voice.
Hope this helps with your paper.
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Why didn't Harve put his letter on his own web site?
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Well, the link function isn't working right.
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Last I saw Rick he was living south of Ann Arbor, MI - almost on the Ohio border. He was going to Toledo for his TWI fix.
It's been a few years. I doubt he has moved. Don't know if he is still in.
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Pete & Cindy were in Ann Arbor after their 1 year stint in New Hicksville.
In 95 they were dropped from the corps at the ROA. Not long after they were M&A (about 2 days later if I recall). After that Cindy went to California, Pete stayed in Michigan and tried working his way back into TWI.
In 96 or 97, Pete was let back in for a short time. He was sent packing again because the stick he was in experienced a downfall in outreach coinciding with his appearance.
Haven't heard about him since. He's a nice guy and got a really raw deal from TWI. Don't know what happened with his marriage but you can bet TWI had something to do with it.
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Joe is in the Boston area. He's still an innie as far as I know.
I have contact info if you like. Shoot me a private message (somehow) and I'll see what I can do. He would probably talk with you, even though he is an innie.
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Rafael,
I found some more info on ekklesia. It looks like it can be included as an actual error after all. It's pretty good but also pretty long and complicated. I'm trying to trim it down and summarize it.
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OK, Israel is called an ekklesia in the septuagent. Go figure.
This is getting to the point that it violates Rafael's rules for this thread, so I'll stop here.
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I have to agree with Plotinus on ekklesia.
VP did not say, "a group of people who have gathered for a specific purpose." He used "the called-out."
According to The New Dynamic Church, page 4 (which I believe is a transcription of a PFAL session):
quote:
The Greek word for our English word "church" is ekklesia, meaning "the called-out." People may be called out for various reasons; for example, if a group of people decided they were going bowling and then gathered at the bosling alley, they would be an ekklesia because they are called out to bowl. In Acts 19 a mob is called a church, an ekklesia. Why? Because a mob is composed of a group of people who have gathered for a specific purpose.
The people refered to in Acts were called an ekklesia because they were citizens of the city gathered in one place. The fact that they were rioting has nothing to do with it.
From my various readings (which I can't document at the moment), ekklesia was a political word. It was the gathering of the citizens to discuss and decide issues. Any citizen had the right to speak at these meetings and to propose matters for discussion (contrary to how TWI operates).
Vic goes on to talk about the ekklesia, or called out, of Israel. He even has a chart on page 7 showing three ekklesia's, Israel, Body of Christ, then Isreal again (held in obeyance). Only problem is, Israel is never called an ekklesia, as far as the New Testament is concerned (haven't checked the septuagent). The two greek words are never in the same verse together.
I don't think Israel could be called an ekklesia because they did not function in that manner.
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Here's another one from Genesis.
Page 238 of PFAL, in reference to Genesis 1:1, ole Vic writes:
quote:
To "create" (bara) literally means "to get something out of nothing" or "to bring into existence something which never existed in any form before."
Oh really?
Vic did get the hebrew word right, but totaly blew the definition. Although I'm currently lacking a few research materials (a long story,) my Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible defines bara as "to prepare, form, fashion, create."
If we are to accept Vic's definition, perhaps he could explain the use of bara in the following verses:
Joshua 17:14-18
14 ¶ And the children of Joseph spake unto Joshua, saying, Why hast thou given me but one lot and one portion to inherit, seeing I am a great people, forasmuch as the LORD hath blessed me hitherto?
15 And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down (bara) for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.
16 And the children of Joseph said, The hill is not enough for us: and all the Canaanites that dwell in the land of the valley have chariots of iron, both they who are of Bethshean and her towns, and they who are of the valley of Jezreel.
17 And Joshua spake unto the house of Joseph, even to Ephraim and to Manasseh, saying, Thou art a great people, and hast great power: thou shalt not have one lot only:
18 But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down (bara): and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.
This is a good one:
Ezekiel 23:47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch (bara) them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.
I remember giving Vic's definition of bara to a professor of Old Testament history I had once, who knew Hebrew pretty well. He gave me a dumb look and said that word does not imply any such thing.
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OK, I'll add one of my favorites - Replenishing the earth.
According to Vic, from page 242 of PFAL (1986 edition):
quote:
The possibility of there being a different kind of life is indicated by the word "replenish" in Genesis 1:28.And God blessed them [man], and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth ...
How can the earth be replenished if it had previously had no beings? Genesis 1:28 will corroborate and substantiate science because of "replenish."
Only problem here is that replenish is old english meaning "to fill." It does not imply to fill up again. The hebrew word is male and only means "to fill."
Also, from God's Command to Replenish the Earth:
quote:
The truth of the matter, however, is that defenders of the Gap Theory could have saved themselves much time, effort, and endlessly wild speculation if they simply had examined more carefully the correct meaning of “replenish” in Genesis 1:28. I readily admit that our English word “replenish” derives from the Latin re (again) and plenus (full), and thus can mean “to fill again.” I also readily admit that even Webster’s Dictionary quotes this verse under its definition of “replenish” as to “repeople.” But theological issues are not determined by appeals to Webster’s Dictionary or modern-day usage. Such issues are determined by appeals to the original languages, however. And in this case, such an appeal immediately clears up any questions on the topic. The Hebrew word, which unfortunately is translated “replenish” in the King James Version of 1611, does not mean to “replenish.” That word is male’, and means simply “to fill” (Davidson, 1863, p. 488; cf., Brown, Driver, and Briggs, 1962, p. 22; see also, Harris, Archer, and Waltke, 1980, 1:505-506). Interesting is the fact that this very same word is used in Genesis 1:22 where the command is given by God to “fill the waters of the seas.” Later versions of the Bible (ASV, RSV, NASB, NIV, et al.) have rendered the verb properly as merely “fill.”
This error carried over into the WAP class. Another example of the Research Department just accepting Victorism as solid truth.
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According to Craig, VP first taught athletes in the early 70's. It was a teaching in the woods. I believe it was Craig's first year in New Hicksville.
According to Craig, few did anything with it until he decided to go full boar on it.
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Golfie,
TWI should slap those verses right on their home page, next to the picture.
Maybe I should do it for them?
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The corpse teaching I was refering to was when Craig was teaching I Kings 22 (or the parrallel in Chronicles) about the prophet Micaiah.
quote:
I Kings 22:15-16
So he came to the king. And the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go against Ramoth-gilead to battle, or shall we forbear? And he ansered him, Go, and prosper: for the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king.
And the king said unto him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou tell me nothing but that which is true in the name of the Lord?
Micaiah goes on to tell the king that he is going to get his *** kicked.
Craig's comment on Micaiah's initial lying was, "So what! He's speaking to an unbelieving king who has no right to the truth!" I am paraphrasing since it has been about 8 years since I heard it and have no notes. It did stick in my memory pretty good though.
I don't doubt that lying to unbelievers as been an unpublished doctrine of TWI for years. They don't feel they should have to offer the truth when it is only going to get them in trouble. And the way Craig interpreted this section, leads me to believe it to be true.
Add to this the other court cases, including my own, where innies out-right lied about current practices of TWI, I'd say the doctrine is alive and well.
Personally, I was once told to explicitly lie to innies when I was an innie. When Craig first admitted to his "affair" (his words) he had agreed to not teach publicly anymore until the lawsuit was over. We were told by our RC that when the peon innies (below TC level) asked why Craig wasn't teaching anymore, we were to follow HQ's lead and say he has been sick. The prior Sunday to this, Craig was scheduled to teach but didn't and everyone was told that he was sick. Actually, the reason was because the lawsuit was about to break open.
Never needed to lie though. It only took a couple of days before they were admiting the thing to everyone.
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Personally, I don't think they should be teaching about walking.
They should be teaching about running...as in running away....as fast as you can...
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Maybe the tin-woman is looking for a heart?
Quoting one who has left TWI:
"There's no place like home, there's no place like home..."
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Is it me or does it look like the people in this picture are walking away from the "promised land" and heading for the hills?
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quote:
Originally posted by TheHighWay:The doggie show was played at Emporia during 84-85 when the 15th & 13th corps were in-rez. I was there. Vic was on campus and spent a week or so reading through the book Bedside Manners to the corps. Us college folks only got invited to the very last session, which (oh, joy) included that disgusting video.
TheHighWay:
Could you do me a favor and and try to remember what month it was shown. Obviously it was between September 84 and May 85, but it would be very helpful to me to know more specific details about this particular showing.
Email is available also. TheEnd3_3@yahoo.com theend3_3@yahoo.com (my hotmail is too full of spam to use anymore)
You Can't Leave
in About The Way
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You are one sick person!