miketheorganist

Goey, I am rethinking. I'm past not being able to stand hearing bad things about VPW, long past it. Give me a little time. I have apoligized once, I hope that is enough. My tone is not meant to be vitriolic. Sometimes reading something intensely personal in print sounds in the mind's ear of the reader to be other than it is intended. Apparently that has happened to me. And I can see by the replies it has happened to some here too. But give me a little time, as I said. I don't feel holier than thou, and I did not mean to come off that way.

OK I get it, I am just an insensitive brute, but please believe me that's not how I meant it. I also didn't mean to be judgmental about who vents and what they vent about. I haven't had to walk in your shoes. I got out when it became evident that at the twig level and branch level leadership was expecting things of us that I knew were the opposite of the Word. And I figured out that if that was happening in my fellowship, it must be coming down from HQ. That was enough for my wife at the time, who pointed it out to me and I knew more Word than she did. It was disheartening. I didn't want to believe it. I didn't know anything about what was going on at HQ and in the Corps. I just knew the watchful eye of a Branch co-ordinator was a little too close to my wallet and my home. When I learned what was really going on in top leadership I was amazed and upset beyond words, but that came long after I left. I thought they were so sweet too. Except when it came to money. We were all free from the law until it came to the tithe, which I never gave them because if we're free from the law that includes the tithe. So I gave what I was happy to give, no more. Because I thought the knowledge of the new birth was worth it. And to this day that's what I am about. But that wasn't good enough for my local leadership. The reason I forgive those people is for myself, not for them. They no longer matter. But they indirectly played a big role in the breakup of my first marriage, so I could carry around that grudge if I chose to. What is sad is that they thought they were doing it for God. Now whether I could bring myself to forgive them if they had manipulated my wife into some sexual thing ... I could say I would, and I know I should, but would I? So I hope you understand that I don't condemn anyone who can't forgive them. Go ahead and vent, and let it out. If they did it to you, I believe they deserve all the venting you can give them after what they did to you. I count myself fortunate it didn't happen to me. So since some of you mention them asking for forgiveness, I ask for yours because I have expressed my view in a way that upset you. I should have known better. Andas for disageements, I will try to take them in a constructive way. I should have read more before posting. Spare time is so hard to come by lately it seems, though, it is hard to say when I'll be back here so please bear with me if it takes me awhile. I will be delving more into the other suggested threads. I guess there's nothing to get one involved in the forums like getting involved in the forums LOL!

Sorry it has taken me a long time to get back here. I really haven't come here a hell of a lot but as I said in my original post, I have been here from time to time (maybe three times a year?) for the last 5 years or so. And I guess I was responding to a general theme I seem to keep encountering here. I have a ton of stuff on my plate what with my second marriage, my trucking job and my musical endeavors, so most of my computer time is taken up trying to promote my band. I guess whenever I think about what became of something I thought was good, and have time to spend here, I come look. And on this the 30th anniversary of the day I first spoke in tongues, I guess I am awash in perspective and reflection. I figured some of you would go off on me and some of you would see my heart, and that's what happened. I haven't been to a Way event since 1993 and recently found a good ex-Way fellowship in Virginia where nobody is having sex with anybody else's spouse and the love of the family is back in full swing, and have nothing to do with TWI or STFI. (although I did get "One Lord and One God." Tremendous piece of work!) So I have thankfully found some renewal after a lot of years of wilderness. Now on to some things I saw in these responses. As to the idea that people who behaved the way they did couldn't ever have belonged to Jesus, that is simply not a true statement. You don't get a renewed mind just because you were born again. And as for Old Vic's plagiarism, granted, but so what? The Bible is in the public domain and teachers have to stand on each other's shoulders, and have been doing that for centuries. I don't mean at all to dismiss anyone's pain. I just think there has to come a point where one lets go. Yes, you are to forgive even the most reprobate of those guys because that's what Scripture says to do. I know that has to be difficult if not humanly possible, but if you haven't given up on Christ in you (and you can stop dissing speaking in tongues, thank you) you can do it. Look, I vent too. Just not about The Way. No point to it. But I have continued to see amazing things in my life when I have believed. Nothing like the Book of Acts, no. But my kids are living proof that miracles are available. The way I met my second wife was a flat out miracle. I have seen His hand at work in the progress my band has made as doors open for us for which I had given up prior to deciding to serve Him again. So maybe it's just co-incidence. I doubt it. Thanks to the person who said they thought I had a tender heart. And no I wasn't baiting you guys, I just have come to the conclusion that healing is something one has to allow to happen. My wife has a lot of scars because of terrible things that happened to her many years ago and she can't get past them. I am grieved that she keeps putting herself through hell. So in a different way I'm watching what first hand what some of you are experiencing as leftovers from The Way days. I offer her comfort the best I can. But I can't set her free. She has to let go. I pray someday she, and you all who were so wounded, will do it.

I finally became a member of GSC after reading over this stuff on and off for several years. I am fully persuaded that everything condemning about the old leadership is true. It is frankly amazing to me that it happened though because I never had to deal with any of it. I never wanted to be in leadership and although I was asked to run Twig a number of times I always declined because I just wanted to learn Scripture, share it when the opportunity arose, play my music and support my family. So I was always at arm's length from it. I never went into the Corps, never went WOW, never went door-to-door witnessing, never got bullied into helping leadershio move into a new house, or anything like that. I knew something was wrong when a Branch co-ordinator wanted to see my pay stubs to make sure I was tithing, and refused my wife's gifts to their new baby because they felt they couldn't accept it when in their view I wasn't paying my bill to God. But having said that, it really grieves me that there appears to be little or no forgiveness on this forum. Maybe some of you have given up on God, which would be no different than the world is in many respects, how unbelievers trash God because of the behavior of some Christians. And I don't mean to trivialize the trauma that I cannot even imagine experiencing at the hands of people we trusted. But I gotta tell you, if you don't already know: If you keep carrying this stuff around you are only compounding the problem and hurting yourselves. Ephesians 4:31-32 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Those people spoken of in these verses include all the church, not just the ones we like. Those people who did these things to you were all your brothers and sisters. The fact that they behaved in an evil way didn't cause them to lose their sonship. We are not going to live the life spoken of in Ephesians if we cannot forgive. I don't think I would be reading the continual rehashing of all the pain, the constant blaming, the incessant vitriol, the never-ending condemnation and self-condemnation, the two decades of failure to cope, if there were some forgiveness. You guys can rise above it. You all still can speak in tongues. Christ still resides in you. What pleasure or satisfaction can there possibly be in staying in the frame of mind I read here? I am blessed to see some posts from those who are successfully moving on and who hold on to whatever they got from The Way that was positive. The rest of us had better do that so we can let the ball and chain fall away. Because as long as we're still griping it's still around our neck. I love you all.