simonzelotes

Who was that Senator's guy that pitched a complete 16 inning game and struck out 21 batters?...Gawd,he musta thrown 200 pitches that game...When the Expos moved to Washington,I wish they would have used the Senators name instead of the Nationals...

ok, Rocky it wasn't an argument, but rather to point out that there is very little difference between the two teams agewise, even with adjustments.

Take their youth as solace for hope or whatever, but I am not buying it as an excuse for their loss of the series. As I said in the earlier post, BOTH teams are young and both did well. While the Rockies finished a whole 1/2 game behind in the regular season, they ARE going to the World Series and deserve credit from the media for what they accomplished.

~HAP

Hap,I don't know who's making excuses...I pointed out some of what I thought were blatant examples of the D-Backs immaturity contributing to their demise,but that doesn't take anything away from what the Rockies have accomplished....The same youthful,D-back's team that lost to the Rockies is the one that swept the $100 million "middle aged" Cubs team in three straight...The Cubs couldn't exploit the D-backs youth---the Rockies did,and that makes them the better team and the one that belongs in the World Series...Excuses are things like the weather,bad hops,crooked umpires,black cats,billy goats,Steve Bartmans,mercurochrome and the like...The D-backs lost with the team that got them there....The Rockies won with the team that got them there...The Rockies deserve to take a bow...

Hey Rocky and Simon... congrats to your Dbacks on making the post season (really)!

Please tell Mr Byrnes to keep his comments about luck out of the media!

The Rockies did everything that the Dbacks seemed to forget (what got them there)... namely play good, solid, foundational baseball...

They played pretty much flawless defense.

They hit what the pitchers were giving them (plate discipline, going with pitches).

They didn't make base running errors.

They made their own "luck".

They're riding an amazing streak...

Thought I'd comment,here,Tom,before this series fades into oblivion...You're right,the D-backs should be awfully proud of their season---they had a great run in spite of their youth and inexperience...I few of my observations,other than the Rocky's just plain playing great baseball,were the youthful D-backs showing the playoff pressure finally getting to them...

Their season was marked with a resiliency,never quitting,come-from-behind victories,'anybody at anytime'...They really played all year like they had absolutely nothing to lose...After sweeping the Cubs,now something was expected of them...They were no longer the 'babybacks',but a legitimate title contender---and that's when a whole different kind of pressure sets in..Suddenly balls are not falling in for base hits and hard line drives are being caught...

I thought 20-year-old Justin Upton made a rookie boo-boo after getting hit with a 78 mile an hour curveball...He should have been happy to reach first and help his team get back in the game...Instead,he glares at the pitcher,and when told by Troy Tulowitzki to 'just get his a$$ over to first base' desides to make it personal and look to get even with a Rocky's player...We could look at all the replays we want,the ump's heard the conversation on the field,they so the look in Upton's eyes---they could see his intent more than the cameras..He looked like he was trying to take out a player rather than break up a double play,and it killed a potential rally...

Eric Byrnes not only provided some good bulletin board fodder for the Rocky's,he put way too much undo pressure on himself and his team...When you're losing a series,you don't call the other team 'lucky',or say you're outplaying them---unless you're in highschool...I was embarrassed for him,he not only shot his mouth off,...he looked like a chump the rest of the series...I wouldn't be surprised if the D-backs shopped Byrnes in the off-season and offered him a fresh start somewhere else...Not because he did anything unforgiveable,but they've spent the last ten years building a sound,fundemental baseball team with an emphasis on good sportsmanship,and grandstanding and the like doesn't fit into their persona....

Rocky and I talked about it a little last night,but I'm thinking it might serve Justin Upton well to spend a little more time in AAA ball (he jumped from AA to the bigs)...He may have major league talent,but you need to have a major league attitude to go with it...

Errors are part of the game,and even experienced players make them in crucial games--but experienced teams are better at picking eachother up...After Connor Jackson's error on an easy grounder,the dam really broke for Arizona and Colorado basically put the game and the series away with Holliday's homer...You can't give a good team more than three outs in an inning,yet sometimes the pitcher has to bail out his fielders...

Speaking of which,I never liked the scoring rule,that whatever runs score after a two-out error occurs is considered an unearned run...If a pitcher gives up a two out error and then gives up four straight homeruns,they all count as unearned runs in the books---which seems kinda misleading to me...

Wow...Back-to-back-to-back homers for Boston....

I know Manny is just being Manny and used to play for Cleveland and all,but if I was Eric Wedge I'd have the pitcher throw right at his dick the next time he comes to the plate...

Ouch...

0 runs 4 hits after two innings...Eric Byrnes musta pi s sed off the baseball gods...

I'm waiting for LCM to get out there on Coors Field and say "I've played football in worse weather than this!"....

You know,I'm not at all for fans throwing bottles,especially Rocky,'cuz he always brings a frozen bottle of water to the game,but I am a little bit pleased that Dbacks fans showed some 'negative' passion...You don't want to see people go crazy,but I like to see fans get passionate about their team,win or lose...I don't know,to me there's something very apple pie-esque about a stadium full of angry fans booing and screaming at some poor,little nonchalont guy in a blue suit...

I think the guy that made the last out sliding past second was their backup catcher---not really a guy noted for being a great baserunner...

I'm not sure why all the tix haven't been sold as of yesterday,Hap...One theory I have is that the D-backs being in the playoffs this year is almost 'business as usual'...Arizona has won their division four times in their ten years of existence,including one World Series win...A post-season appearance by the D-backs is really not that big a deal,compared to some of the more longsuffering cities...They've changed the team colors this year and they have many new players---none of which were on the WS champs from 2001...The founding owner was ousted a couple of years ago,as well,so in some ways,Arizona is re-identifying with the team...Plus the Cardinals got a new football stadium last year which increased their season-ticket sales,which probably included some baseball season ticket holder defectors...

Not to derail Rhino's derailment,but my folks take Amtrak every year to Phoenix,but I have to pick them up in Flagstaff,since the Sante Fe tracks that Amtrak leases from the railroad follow old U. S. 66...

Rocky...Are you containing your excitement ok ...

Lifted,while I gotcha on here,does the batter still get credited with an RBI if he hits a sac fly and the runner on first gets thrown out at second after the runner scores?

I was thinking along the lines of what Bill was saying,but didn't know for sure...That's why I was invoking the spirit of LiftedUp,the man in blue....He would know more than Bill where those trains would collide...

Linda,do you know how many math classes I would have flunked out of were it not for baseball?...Besides,everyone knows those trains will collide in Dubuque,Iowa....

Simonzeloaded: runs don't count on force plays that end the inning do they?

Tom,no they don't...My interpretation or 'wild guess' is that whatever happens before the batter is thrown out at first base or a force out is negated because of the third out...Often the runner on first in a situation where there's runners on first and third and only one out will 'sacrifice' himself and draw the throw from the cutoff man in exchange for the runner on third scoring...But a runner on first who didn't tag and got thrown out is not the same as a force play,and I wondered if him being doubled off would negate the run scoring...

I got's a question for Lifted Up....In the Yankees/Indians game,Damon made a great catch on a deep drive with runners on first and third with two outs...Had their been one out,and the runner on third tagged and scored but the runner on first running on contact got doubled off of first,would the run have counted?

Should be some good baseball coming up...I'll save my predictions for after the series are over...

This may be a dumb question,but is there anything out there that refutes Leuchter's results,or methodology,other than he didn't have the credentials?....

I've been following this thread the last few days,mainly,because I realize I'm not very learned in this aspect of history...I will say that I appreciate the actual information posted rather than the demonizing pot-shots that,to me,are not very becoming to the anti-revisionist faction..

Fortunately,for those like me who are unsure of anything,anymore,I need not confess with my mouth the Holocaust and believe in mine heart that 6,000,000 Jews were exterminated to be saved...So what is really at issue here?....Hamm's original question is "What gives Holocaust denial such appeal?"....Over the course of several threads,I believe WTH gave different reasons in between other information about the actual holocaust...Now, those reasons have been interpreted as being anti-semitic,hateful,a wierwillite and so forth...

I guess if I were to start a thread like this it would be "Anti-semitism---facts and myths"....If Jewish people have been persecuted throughout the centurios,culminating with the holocaust,then what gives hating them such appeal,if that's the case?....I can understand religious persecution,or battling over land or money and so forth,but I don't quite get the "red-headed stepchild" as P-mosh referred to...From my way years,I remember Jesus saying something like the world will hate you even as it hated me,and the book of Acts seemingly avers that...Is being hated something that befalls all of 'God's chosen'?...Why would the non-religious be anti-semitic?

speaking of which, Simon's Cubs of his youth are gonna go down to the Dbacks of his age... and sweet Lou will take another hit for his 'calculated move'... but dang! they have the best bullpen don't they?

I kind of like this young Dback team... seems to be a lot of great chemistry with them... they look like they're having fun...

If you're referring to Lou pulling Zambrano after six,Rocky and I were at a game this year where Randy Johnson was throwing a one-hitter through six in a 1-0 game...Johnson hit the leadoff hitter in the seventh on the first pitch,struck out the next guy,and about five pitches later the base were loaded against him....The normally reliable D-back bullpen couldn't hold the lead, and of course,all the D-back fans wanted to crucify Manager Bob Melvin for keeping Johnson in too long...As a manager you're kinda damned either way if the move doesn't work...You're very right,the young D-backs are having fun...

I don't think Jojaba Chamberlain will forget his first playoff appearance...

When did Cleveland start getting plagued with those tse-tse flies?...

Ok just some general baseball musings.....

As a genaral baseball fan,I've been a little resentful myself about the New York dominance in b-ball...In fact,I was often glad that I wasn't old enough to experience 50's baseball,when the Brookyn Dodgers would have a playoff with the NY Giants to see who got to play the NY Yankees in the World Series....I mean geez,wasn't New York represented by one team or another about 14 teams out of the 20 possible teams in the WS in the '50's?...With the Yankees winning about 1/4 of the champinships over a century,and being in the WS about 40% of the time,I'd say expect the flack---it goes with the territory of winning....It could be worse,Hiway,you could have been a Cub fan and had the rest of the baseball world feeling sorry for you your whole life....The Cubs motto really should be "don't expect anything and,hey,you'll never be disappointed"....

The D-backs are more than likely not embraced by too many people outside of Arizona because they're a relatively new expansion team...They're not the team of anybody's youth...Plus,they have also been in the playoffs 40% of their years in existance,so they don't draw much sympathy...On the other hand,they've proven this year that you can somehow compete with the big boys in spite of a low payroll...In fact,if they were an older,more storied franchise,like Kansas City,Pittsburgh or maybe Cincinatti,I think they would be a much more popular sentimental favorite by virtue of the young low-payroll David taking on the highly-paid Goliaths...The wierd thing is,I don't see the D-backs losing a lot to free agency any time soon,since they really don't have a 'star' in their every day lineup that would command huge dollars on the free agent market...

The Cubbies are playing thus far like they have a curse---Not from a billy goat or a Steve Bartman or some other crazy baseball gods---their own self imposed curse...Ted Lilly afraid to pitch to 22-year-old-kids...DLee,Soriano and Aramis Ramirez swinging at balls in the dirt and taking fat pitches down the middle...The old guys on the field seem like the nervous ones---The D-Backs are playing like they have nothing to lose...

I was extremely impressed yesterday bu C. C. Sabbathia...It looked like his "stuff",as Luis Tiant would have put it, was "boolcheet"...Walked six guys,...nervous as a pig with an invitation to a luau in his hoof,...but somehow he reached back, and against some of the best clutch playoff hitters in baseball,preserved a one-run lead with the bases loaded and one out...

Gentlemen:

As long as you keep it here and out of the general baseball thread p i s s away...There are women and children over there....Actually,it's almost like we need a 'decaf' baseball forum ...

Cubs are looking like the young kids and the D-backs like the old pros...Ted Lilly's been wetting his pants in every inning 'til they got him outta there...

Cubs/ Diamondbacks game will start out on TNT instead of TBS, until the Indians are done spanking the yankees.

Kaz Matsui missed being the first player ever to hit for the cycle in a playoff game by not getting a single. Hmm if the last foul ball into the corner had been fair, do you think he might have considered stopping at first even if he could make it to second?

Only if he made it look good by stumbling over 1st base...

Thanks for the heads up about TNT....Rockies are looking very good....

I like that "Kenny Lofton's on the move again" commercial right after he got his 4th rbi of the game...

It's nice to hear Chip Carey again---a real professional....And Brenley does a fine job as colorman along with Tony Gwynn...