Refiner

Well as George S Patton said as he ran Rommels forces off the field of battle...

"Ive read your book you magnificent sumb****...Ive read your book!"

Invisible Dan.

I can tell you an interesting Fact about Herbert W Armstrong, it is that he preached "British Israel" and this doctrine is in his publications.

"British Israel" is that the white races are the lost 10 tribes of Israel.

America is the tribe of Manasseh as I recall and Britain is Ephraim.

Id have to reference to be certain which tribe is which.

I have a bad feeling that they might kill MJ off in the third at the hand of Green Goblin junior. Alfred Molina as the octopus was far better than I expected.As a matter of fact he was excellent.

Drawing examples from a subject close to your heart there Pris.(food) :D-->

Hey Mark. I will tell you a secret.

I frequently feel that Christ waits for me.

And in view of the fact that you have not reacted with crazed hysteria to my posting, I am willing to examine your essay and then discuss the matter of Christs Lordship with you.

Allow me time to read it.

I will certainly read that most excellent looking presentation Mark, and comment in due course.

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the bible teaches that Jesus is the Son of God and is at God's right hand in the heavenlies. Jesus earned his high position by his sacrifice for all of mankind. God, the Father delegated all authority to Jesus pertaining to his universal Church.

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Well interestingly Mark, strictly speaking, the JWs would teach the same thing, but somehow something gets lost in the wash.

I suppose it might be in order that I investigate what the exact difference is that makes the difference.

Girl from Oz has the longest legs and most soothing voice of any poster Ive encountered online, so her attentions are well worth recieving ;)-->

Yeah he is Tom.

Of course hes most famous for an ozzie film called "Priscilla queen of the desert".

Which is well worth watching, another ozzie called Guy Pierce is in that film with him. Guy Pierce was in The recent remake of "The Time Machine".

That was filmed in New Zealand, so they used New Zealand movie extras.

Now the Matrix movie was made In Oz. so there are a lot of Aussie names in those movies such as Agent Smith, he is a well known ozzie actor called Hugo Weaving.

Hey Tom. If you want funny accents try listening to a New Zealander.

They mix their vowel sounds up.

so when a Zealander says "Im going to the fridge to get a drink"

You hear "Am goink to thu fradge ti gat e drunk"

Mark...Jehovahs Witnesses split the Trinity into three persons With Jehovah venerated as supreme creator, Jesus a sort of glorified angel and the Holy Spirit as some vague wishy washy "force" that is scarcely mentioned.

Hey Mark, you have addressed me a couple of times and I have failed to respond to you. Apologies.

I agree with you that Jesus is very cool.

Unfortunately,(and Ive posted this before at GSC)the cult I was in was not Christ Centered. The divinity of Jesus was down played and he was a secondary character.So I have a lot of programming that causes me to down grade Him.

You follow?

It is not in my upbringing to venerate Christ as divine.

Tom. I am British myself, from the midlands, but reside in Oz.

I suppose that I dream about a big internet ex cult board where all former ex culties can share experiences and fight against the evils of cult abuse as a united force. If only they could tolerate each others differences.

Well admittedly Raf it seems very unlikely that there be two D A Reeds who may have cause to venture to this site.

Going back to the matter of The Boston movement... from what I have read and heard, their focus is upon "discipling" and "evangelism". They think these two matters identifying truths of the true church. Of course every group develops their identifying truths, say Adventists with their identifying mark of the sabbath practise, JWS with their identifier of the preaching work, or Exclusive Brethren with their identifier of "seperation" or exclusivity.

They believe it a practise exclusive to their own church which is a return to lost practise.

Usually these "lost practises" are revelated as needing restoring after a crisis in the movement.

Of course, all this is purely my own opinion.

Hey Goey! I hope you get well real quick, they let you have your laptop, and you get back here and give me a verbal spanking soon. ;)-->

I think I have changed my position on the D A Reed matter too Raf, They dont feel like the same person to me. So I believe I was in error on that.

Any person who ventured to the board that Prisca linked to would find themselves welcomed on a scale comparable to my own welcome here.

Well thats my point WW. It would be most unfortunate if people followed me here because they saw that there was a dispute on the board, and they came to join the "fight".

Id rather they didnt come at all.

I wrote a brief analysis of Boston "Authority" a couple of years back, here it is for anyone curious....

...This movement is a splinter group from a larger recognized church, the Church of Christ, and the "boston" movement is now known as the "International church of Christ". It has been labelled a cult.

People within the cult are worked to a frazzle, often preaching 15 hours a day, for the work of preaching or "desciplemaking" is the identifying mark of the true church in the last days. Or so they believe.

It is about the churches view of Authority that I wish to speak here though. For it is the church view of authority that enslaves the followers into following unreasonable requirements.

Firstly the church believes that it has recovered "lost practices", practices ordained by God, and it has recovered lost structure. The structure of the original gospel church under Christ. Lost since the time of the disciples.

These lost treasures are the restoration of correct church authority ( which bears a remarkable resemblance to an Authoritarian Pyramid), and the rerstoration of the practise of "discipling".

"Discipling" is simply that each member of the church has a "discipler", an individual who is in superior authority over him .

God himself has appointed the discipler in the sense that God has appointed the church, reestablished the structure of command, and the discipler is above the disciple in the structure, and hence, must be obeyed.

This obedience is unconditional, even if the discipler behaves poorly, he is still to be obeyed. Even if the discipler is corrupt, he is to be obeyed.

The logic is that, if he works not in a Godly way, God himself will remove him from his position. The disciple is required to obey, that is all. Failure to do this is labelled "rebellion against God". Ex Witnesses will be familiar with such reasonings.

Anyway, to an examination of Boston "authority". Quotes are from the "Boston Bulletin" . The Boston movements equivalent to the Watchtower.

The Boston Bulletin (BB) article, "The attitude of Jesus" (1988) brought forth the revelation that Christ was submitted in a position of "discipleship" to God . John 5 verse 19 quoted:

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" I tell you the truth, the son can do nothing by himself, he can only do what he sees the Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the son does also".

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The focus here is upon imitation" . The article also points out that Jesus was subject to sinfull man. Matthew 23 verse 2 is quoted "The teachers of the law and the pharisees sit in Moses seat, so you must obey them and do everything they tell you". Jesus may have rebuked the pharisees, but he never disobeyed them. They sat in their seats of power because God appointed and allowed them."

Where can such reasoning as this lead ?

From the BB article "Discipleship partners" (1988):

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... "The person that you are discipling , must believe, must trust that you are out for God and their best interests. Because there is going to be some advice that they will not understand, But if they trust that you are out for God, then they will obey"....

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So understanding why you are doing a thing, following an instruction, is secondary to obeying the command.The example of Peter is quoted:

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..." Peters trust in Jesus led him to say, 'because you say so'...In order to be discipled by others, the disciple must have a trusting heart, one that listens and follows even when it doesnt comprehend or see the end result....Peter let down the nets not understanding what would happen because he trusted his teacher. Do you trust those discipling over you? Do you trust beyond the point of your own understanding?"...

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TheBB article "Authority and Submission" (October 1987) points out some things that submission is NOT. It says:

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...." Submission is not Agreeing, When one agrees with the decision he must submit to, then he does not have to really submit to it in any way. By definition, submission is doing something one has been asked to do that he would not do if he had his own way. But submission is not just outward obedience, It includes that, but it is obedience from the heart. It is a wholehearted giving up of ones own desires. Submission is not conditional. It does not depend upon whether the one commanding it is being fair.We submit to authority, not because the one in authority deserves it, but because his authority comes from God. Therefore, we are, in reality, submitting ourselves to God"....

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As the BB article "The attitude of Christ Jesus" (1988) said:

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"If your house church leader came in and said ' I want everybody in here to wear a red shirt' then every body has to wear a red shirt. You dont care. You dont say, 'yeah, but can he tell me to do that'? What do you care if youve given up yourself? We arent going to sit here and rationalize and reason. What we are saying is that every person has given up themself, and thats the only way to be in the kingdom"....

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Raf, you are getting the JW boards mixed up. The one Prisca linked to is a very MODERATE board, called affectionately "JWD". The fiery board that you are thinkiing of is "JWO".

Not the same board.

Im afraid there is a long history of faction fighting on the ex JW Boards. Perhaps not surprising with 10,000 registered posters.

Splinter boards have resulted.

I dont know.

Curiosity I suppose exy.

Ive posted over there that Im resident here at the moment, so I guess theyve been "lurking" watching whats going on.

Actually "LongHauler" told me hed registered here, so thats me, Prisca of course, and LH.

So 3.

I guess GSC has got guests.

I collect Silver Age Marvel comics of the 1960s and have an extensive collection of some .... I dont know...maybe 600 comics. The comic below is worth a packet as long as it is in excellent condition. The black on the cover gets damaged easily.

The cover is a masterpiece.

See if this works. The best Spider Man comic book cover ever.....

More ex dubs are coming.

Ive started a trend.

I hope they behave.