mchud11

Watered Garden said:
 Waysider probably remembers the time in Fellow Laborers when we were all jerked out of bed in the middle of the night and told to report to limb in the middle of the night. This was a twenty minute drive. Got there, were screamed at by the limb leader, J** M**ne, and dismissed en masse. Nowhere to go, no idea why. Weighed in the balance of an unknown judge and found wanting in unknown ways for unknown reasons. We were later reinstated, except for a few hapless souls.
Waysider said:
Later, I realized the purpose of this little exercise was to keep us off balance and fearful, dependent and confused.
It happened in the mid 1970's, in the middle of the night. Our program was in the the middle of rural Ohio. Just packing up and leaving on a moment's notice would have been very difficult for most. We were told the program had been cancelled because our "believing" was corrupted and inadequate. No specifics were given. A few hours later we were told we would be allowed to continue, contingent on our following orders without question. I later found out that the same stunt was being played out, at the same time, in the Way Corps. It was all staged to push people into pledging loyalty. For some people it was quite a traumatic experience.

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It is the case that the Fl's were called to Limb HQ's very late in the evenning.  It is the case that everyone was shocked, including myself.  This post of mine is the most complete record of that evenning.

J. Mil@@ dismissed the FL program for two reasons:  alcohol consumption and too much sex. If memory serves me, the dismissal was shortly after everyone in the program returned from "Christmas"...the FL program had a Christmas break.  Regardless if my recollection of the time of the dismissal, I am very sure I know what J. Mil@@ was talking about.  There was alcohol consumption, against the rules of the program...Secondly, that year of the program there were many first year FL's who were married, many children.  

Within a half an hour of the dismissal, I convinced my fiance, Barbara S@@ St@@a@t, to drive me back to Limb HQs.  With her in hand, I knocked on J. Mil@@'s door and was invited in, was invited to sit down in his office. I then told J. Mil@@ that I had inappropriately touched Ms. St@@a@t.  
I was diagnosed in 1999 as a Bi Polar, as having a mental illness.  The Dr. said it started to develop when I was 13 years of age or so, just not diagnosed for 33 years.  What I am saying is that I was mentally ill throughout my TWI experience.  To this day, I cannot explain why I told J. Mil@@ that I had inappropriately touched my fiance, I hadn't...being mentally ill, what else could be the reason.  Anyway, immediately after I stated the touching, J. Mil@@ called the FL mens coordinator, asking the coordinator if he wanted to re-start the program the next night.  My fiance and I saw the call being made, we both heard the contents of the call.  The program did restart the next evenning....nothing has been left out of the dismissal Waysider and Watered Garden have referred to...

I reported this three days ago...my post did not get posted...

Our friend JL, spiritual leader of the Living Truth Fellowship has been diagnosed with a form of bone marrow disease. This is not a joke. He is receiving some "healing counseling". I know more, but I am not talking any more, other than to say that JL certainly deserves our prayer.

hey mchud,

dont know if you'll see this but here goes. i remember nancy. she was a good friend. we met in san diego when i was just getting involved with twi.

i even have a photo of her somewhere tucked away with my other memories from that time.

anyway, this info is about seven years old but it's all i have.

after leaving new knoxville sometime after '86 i was told she moved to cleveland with long time friend rhonda and rhondas son.

sorry i cant give you more than that.

i imagine that she took her leave and started a new outside twi.

Thanks, I was in San Diego for a year and Nancy was there, doing the WOW program, so I really only got to talk to her for just a few minutes..I am not sure who Rhonda is, but maybe...would you drop me a note in my email box..I think I might know who Rhonda is, just not her last name...thanks, michael

Thanks Michael.

I only know one way, one thing, only one light. That's it for me, the core of the center of the essence of what I believe and my faith.

I don't have any additives, enhancements, methods, techniques or paradigms to offer and neither entertain, offer nor sell any expanded versions of the original. And I loathe and disdain those who would sell God's gifts, so freely given. They get no quarter, no standing in these precincts and deserve what they get by choosing the outer rim - chaos.

I have as many scintillating enlightened thoughts as the next clod but I don't mess with the foundation and cornerstone of What Works and in Christianity that is Jesus Christ, the way, truth and light, the Logos, God's mind and intentions brought to form for all to see and hear.

Without that, there's everything else and everything else is not that so it's easy to get and keep a bead on it. With that, order, peace and progress within the human soul can begin and grow, life Anew. The closer anyone gets to that the clearer their vision and place.

If this were then I'd do what they did - bring someone to Jesus, to hear, see and meet Him for themselves and let the work begin. And the Spirit is on the move even today so He's not hard to find. When He needs my help He knows where to find me but He knows His job. So do I. Or as ZZ Top said so eloquently "You may not see Him in person, but He'll see you just the same. And you don't have to worry, cause Takin' Care Of Business is His name".

I take extreme exception to this crap that floats today in the name of Jesus Christ and His Father but it seems to have always been a soiled water in the shallow end of the pool. I'm a lousy swimmer but the deep end is much cleaner.

From what I know about Abe Lincoln, you would have been either good friends with him or in his Civil War cabinet..He didn't like that Jesus Christ was not present in the Churches of his day...

michael

"damn it socks you're just mad you had to sign an agreement to release him/them if the fellas in the white coats carried you out of there"

Y'know, you just reminded me of a statement my wif' made a year of so after we left the Wee Willy Winkee Way and started hearing about their wholesale brutality and what they were dishing out at the time and being thankful I'd taken the high road out instead of going in alphabetical order through the Way's leaderz and unloading a tank load of UMF on them one by one -

she said "I guess we left before they had a chance to be really mean to us".

I thought about that for a moment and realized that this would be one of those rare moments when she in all her sweetness and loving intelligence was in fact, wrong about her assessment of that situation. See, her assumptions about her own reality had been formed by a somewhat limited and small slice of the actual larger reality in which she'd existed but not been fully aware of - and therefore was only a partially formed vision. I knew right then and there that this was an opportunity to expand her personal horizons to places that well, like, new places. So I did.

I responded "No, actually we left the Way before I had a chance to get really mean to them".

And that again is the living freaking truth.

There's still always time of course, but it wouldn't be fun anymore so, yeah.

Blends Ham. It's all about blends.

This just in! A note to socks - "why do you hate D. T. so much? What did he ever do to you?"

Cool! A perfect opportunity for me, socks, to expound on that greatest of topics - why socks thinks the way he does.

I don't hate him. I saw a rat under the kitchen counter last winter, little squinty guy. I didn't hate him, didn't even put out a trap. That's why we have a cat, a cat who won't move a leg except to eat, poop and switch sleeping positions but will sit like the Sphinx for hours and hours once it knows there's a rat on the move somewhere in her domain and then - well, I never see the rat again.....what goes around comes around, cycle of life stuff and life has a way of taking care of it's own detritus which is what MoMental looks like to me, if smarmy corn starch and excreta can be classified as such and I'll admit up front I might be stretching it there a tad.

I also consider it a personal achievement that he's never done anything to me or anyone related to me, good or bad, although I will admit it's not a great achievement and probably goes on the same shelf as all the times I've remembered to watch where I'm stepping while walking in the park and avoided getting dog poop on my sneak's. It's those little wins that are kinda cool and idle their time in those parts of my consciousness not being used for higher value work, like avoiding spraying Ant Spray in my eyes instead of at the ants.

Ya know socks I like this post of yours...its good reality. The thing I found toward the end of my involvement/association with the ministry, was the "raise the bar thing"..I move to San Diego/Coronado, no job, no money and the Branch Leader invites me over to his home. He says welcome and I want you to attend my fellowship..Oh, its real far away, but Hey I can believe for hitching a ride, right?

Later I move to Everett, Washington. I have un-resolved issues, I ask the local Corp Grad for some counseling, well he turns me down, doesn't feel I am hungry enough, hey I haven't proved my commitment. Later I work for him, I teach him how to use a paint sprayer to paint homes..He has some serious vision issues, I mean squinting, very bad squinting to see anything and he is driving like that. He neither recognizes, nor takes care of the issue, Ordained Clergy, dumb foot. We do the first job, he is blind as a bat and shooting paint everywhere except where its supposed to go..I wouldn't say it was anything other than sad. And I messed with him, he didn't pay me up. I go to his home, tell him I will collect through small claims court..hie wife comes out, thrusts a bible in my face with a verse on "how dare you...going to man/court rather than the body of believers"...which don't exist in the area...

What can I say, the Corp is/was a lifetime commitment to serve. Do I know more than two people in my life presently that are keeping their Corp commitment..no I don't... The ministry became utter horse poo. I didn't help that, not guilty.

I do work the Word, I do speak in tongues. I do associate myself with John Lynn. He is a Teacher/Evangelist. His ministry is apparent. I have never met him. We correspond, for getting close to 7 years now.

I did finish the Momentus book...well, not horse poo, just pretty damn light-weight. It looks to me that there are a whole lot of light-weights who publish books, John Eldredge, Joyce Meyers. Well, I have gone after old John Eldredge..confronted him on his little Facebook page...of course he doesn't respond on the page or to my email...just like all the light-weights....ears full of wax, living their 'LAW'...I have no empowerment with them...too, too bad, oh well.

michael

Kesey claims corn starch is the cure to this kind of nonsense..

applied to "swarmy" what is the word..

in a hot courtroom.. so.. whatever it is does not anymore stick together..

I'm sorry friend. It was the word "swarmy" that prompted this nonsense..

Thanks, Ham

I had to look it up. I had been thinking it was a kind of Greek sandwich wrapped lovingly in a Pita with "the juice".

2.Swarmy

Swarmy is a conflation of the words "swarthy" and "smarmy". Originally intended to be an insulting term referring to an unsavoury person with a shallow personality and a less-than-appealing set of grooming and dress habits.

So, Richard Dawson might fit in all this, eh? "The bad suit says?"

Read it for yourself - from the Tochster's brain to your eyes.....

Transformation is what occurs when people alter the way the world appears to them by making specific decisions to tap into the power of interpretation.

******************************************

(read that first line again - several times, hold your breath, light a candle, count to 100 and exhale slowly. Repeat until understanding wafts across your consciousness like the gentle odor of a butterflie's breath, then do it again and soon you will understand how some neanderthal's from his past known as "Christians" might take issue with the essence of his concept(s)... )

So, why is it that producing transformations in how teams, organizations and families work together is so elusive despite well intentioned, very smart people? I believe the number one challenge is that our culture is entrained to listen for simple answers, sound bites, steps, tips and techniques to very complex challenges. We want answers to questions that demand more than what can be achieved through a sound byte or even an audio book.

Ya, socks...what that is talking about..is that we all have perceptions and assumptions...a lot of the time those perceptions are inaccurate. Unless they are dealt with, put to the side, they can and often color our behavior...as in to our disadvantage. If you think that is baloney..well it is baloney...That's called freedom of will..

michael

(yes....even an audio book - hard to believe but even that. )

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Now I may already be in trouble because I neglected to get permission to copy paste that from one of those websites and in fact did not negotiate a price to do so and that's mmmmmmm probably one of the first and worst Sins in this Slick's Keys to Success, not paying for the priceless........and sure, don't kick an income stream outta your bed just because it's underwear's brown, money's money - there can be gold in them cottons.

But - there it is, like a duck, sitting.

The first sentence really - it's so incredibly beautiful I will need a weekend or two to ponder it's fullness. But for those who haven't eaten of this bowl, again - duck. There. It's sitting.

So - for all you hungering for your daily plate of spiritual foie gras, there it is. The good news......there's more.

Nurse, I think I might need a sponge bath.

WHAT? You don't KNOW that you know that you know if you need a sponge bath?

What sort of spineless, indecisive, piece of dung are you anyway?

Sorry, nurse. I must have gotten lost in the moment-us.

Stop it Waysider, my ribs are cracking from laughter...BTW, I got banned from Christian Dating For Free for putting up an open discussion on masturbation, not, mind you practices, techniques, or supplemental reading material requirements. I wrote to Pe@er J@y about it and his response was "Well, Michael, I suppose if you were on a masturbation site and discussed Christianity the same thing would probably happen". Ya, I felt compelled to share that with you.

michael

Dan Tochini's "Momentus" and other hot air propositions are a load of badly packed sputum delivered by a smiley faced lung whose mental interior is coated with the black tar of years of smoke.

He's reinvented his spiel over and over, now into corporate-speak-personal-trainer-success blather. His intellectual visage moderately resembles a an undernourished possum's private parts wrapped in a condom sheet cake frosted with you-don't-wanna-know.

If he would stop using the word "Christian" I wouldn't mind, but since day 1 in Sonoma County and then fanning out across the land, where now-L.A. I think - he's been on this mission to help others by bastardizing the message of Jesus Christ - where'd it come from and what qualifies his iluminations of grandeur to be worth cash money - is a good question.

He, Loynn, Greaser - they deserve each other. Sales, baby. Sell it and they will buy.

Back to a kinder gentler thread...........I just don't like to miss a chance to pack the search engines with a reference to Dan Tochini.

So, Socks, you are 'Pro' or 'Agin'? I am hearing a Rush Limbaugh "on crack" rant. Are you like me Socks, can't wait to read Larry Flynt's new tell all on sex in America in politics over the last two hundred years or do you fall asleep with the latest Joyce Meyers work, all safe and secure on your "Kindle"? Just messin with ya Socks, no need to hack my Forex account.

love,

michael

God designed TWO... COUNT 'EM... TWO... communication systems into the body. One is the nervous system which sends signals by means of electrical discharges, the other is the hormonal system which sends signals by means of chemical messengers. Nervous system... thoughts. Hormonal system... feelings. They are NOT contrary. They depend on each other. Just mess around with your seratonin and you'll find out what I mean.

The debate between Spock and McCoy is bogus. Logic (which should actually be "reason" since logic by itself can be very, very wrong if not based on sound judgment) is like the steering wheel, and feelings are like the gas pedal. If you stomp on the gas pedal without steering, you're gonna wind up in trouble, but you can turn that steering wheel all day long, if you don't touch the gas pedal, you ain't gonna go nowhere.

The boys at CES seemed to attach great importance to the "logic" of their positions, but it was RATIONALIZATION that Wierwille taught them, and they never did figure out the difference.

The Bible never tells us to be logical. It DOES exhort us to exercise juggment as a matter of habit (Philippians 1:9, Hebrews 5:11-14). Lynn, Schoenheit and Graeser got their judgment whacked (Psalm 36:1-4) because they believed that "the fear of the Lord" is like the respect we pay to an aged uncle, whom we are no longer expected to obey.

Love,

Steve

I read it Steve. I will keep it in mind, but not hide it in my heart...cause I got balls.

michael

It doesn't look like Dr. John Townsend was the same character in way history..

much younger, different color of hair..

momentus is a little "nothing" seminar. Try going to grad school..

thanks Ham,

I am still researching. One Way leader has said "broke Drs. heart", one says "wonderful", one says "experiential model"...so I am still researching, a book "Us" is on the way. I call em like I see em.

michael

As far as I know, the best way to make decisions is with a dartboard, or picking out a scrap of paper from a hat...

I am not sure where this thread is going. I personally thanked Waysider for informing us that the WOW Program was in swing again. I looked up the reference. I wrote a short letter to "Little Vic, whoever he is, like VPW's son, whatever.. I asked him to please not send anyone to Colorado Springs or Denver, promising that if I found out about it..that I would go to their residence and confront them on what I understand the Way to be still teaching, i.e. the "Tithe'. I made a mistake some years ago, I picketed the home of the Limb Leader of Arizona's home, this was like 1986. The police arrived, asked me to leave, and I refused. I spent a night in jail, ended up paying a fine of a little over three hundred dollars. Lesson learned. With regard to the re-vised WOW program, well what is good for the goose is good for the gander. it's unlikely I will discover any WOW's in colorado, however if that does happen, well it just so happens I have a door to door ministry with regard to WOW Ambassadors, explaining to them directly, however meekly, that "the LAW" kills members of the Body of Christ's spiritual walk...not a good thing, you know??

love you guys,

Michael Chudzinski

Psst! Keep this under your hat. The original W.O.W. program was designed with one purpose in mind----sell PFAL.

Page 2

Witnessing and Undershepherding...© 1974/The Way International

1.The basic reason we witness is to help people into the classes on Power for Abundant Living...

Absolutely and the PFAL Class was a sales tool.

Time is running out. Only a couple months left to sign up.

If not now, when?

If not you, who?

CLICK

(I wonder if they're going to throw darts at the map like they did in the original program. LOL)

Thanks, Waysider;

I wrote Mr. Wierwille a very short letter, asked him to stay out of Denver and Colorado Springs, well cause I would hate to go over to their little fellowship and confront them on the Tithe, cause at the moment that is the only issue that I know of that is worthy of my time...read "the law". I do plan on praying for the Dude, who knows maybe he has "da ka hoe na's" to write me back.

michael

Here's some info about Momentus:

http://ex-ces.faithweb.com/lortzmom.htm

As for fear, it is NOT believing in reverse, it is NOT sand in the machinery of life, it DOES NOT always encase, enslave and bind. Fear is an emotional response God designed into our hormonal systems. Emotions are chemical signals that move us to do things. Different emotions move us to do different things. Joy moves us to offer praise. Compassion moves us to offer favor. Fear moves us to get into right relation with the object of the fear. The right relation with a rattlesnake is outside of striking distance. The right relation with the IRS is top have our filings accurate and on time, and our taxes paid up.

The right relation with God is to humbly recognize that He is God and I am not. What He says is right is right, whether the thoughts and intents of my heart agree or not. The opposite of the fear of the Lord is arrogance. That's what Romans 11:20b means when it says, "Be not highminded but fear."

Wierwille dedicated a great portion of PFAL to proving that Romans 11:20b could not possibly be directed to us, because Wierwille revelled in his arrogance, and he taight us to be arrogant also. John Lynn still does not realize how arrogant he is.

Love,

Steve

Steve;

Ok, dude, or Mr. Dude - LOL...I read over the link, not every word..enough to get the sum and substance of it. First, thanks for speaking your mind. Waysider is a great guy, honest..and I also appreciate him putting in his thoughts. Momentus does appear to be quite a few things, but I do have my time constraints, so I will just discuss one thing.

Artificial counseling.

Real, genuine counseling, like the kind I am reading about now (from Henry Cloud/John Townsend's "How People Grow)...involves techniques Jesus Christ used, like the spectrum of "active listening to confrontation", but when say a trainer (I am merely picking a word that feels to me to be descriptive of the Momentus thing) gets out of someone, for example, that they feel their commitment is weak or could be improved upon..and then the Trainer confronts the trainee on commitment, Yes I would say that is dead wrong. I mean the only benefit I see to that is that the Trainee has the opportunity to react in a way that might even involve grabbing his own chair and going to town on the Trainer's head with it. After all, fair is fair. So, Momentus does sound like a no-brainer to me.

Had Waysider not posted , I might not have understood in my gut what was being talked about. I did look on the web link that the sponsoring ministry of Momentus has, as well. So, bottom line, I feel better educated than when the subject first came up.

I haven't ever talked to anyone about Momentus, so now it appears I have something to work with, if and when it ever comes up again. Personally, I am like you, Steve, I think we both like to take a stand on things we believe in out heart.

Back to your posting..this whole emotion, thoughts, actions discussion is a very large subject matter. So, I will just feed back to you about what you have written above. I am of the belief that the Word says we have freedom of will (another big subject). And I belief that emotions CAN result from events, but self-control can minimize what our emotions bring to the table. Actions do follow our thoughts, like the big picture being "what we think about all day". We are like minded on the opposite of fear (respect) is arrogance..that is IF you are talking about a "mental event", IF you are talking about fear as purely an emotional thing, well I am not so sure...I would have to agree to disagree at the moment, as in I have never really thought about that, read anything in the Word yet that supports or negates that. The right relation to God, humbly recognizing that He is who He is and I am who I am, Oh, absolutely. Last, yes, I agree that fear, compassion, the emotions do motivate us, I would add one more thing..our 5 senses motivate us and our past experiences motivate us...Yet here is the thing..all of those are hit or miss, without knowledge of the Word, be it the written Word or revelation, applied in practice..less than good results can and do come about.

This whole discussion is very interesting, real man to man stuff. I read this book, oh, some time ago about the "Sin Of Adam". The author asserts that the sin of Adam was complacency, sitting right there with Eve and not acting, not speaking...like submissive. That ain't cool in my book. Us men were formed to take control, speak truth, bring chaos into orderliness. In short, a lot of authority on this ol' green earth.

bless,

michael

Michael

I have never been through Momentus. As far as I can gather, though, it had to be similar to that INSANE weekend in FellowLaborers where we were "confined" to the BRC for most of the weekend, psychologically battered and verbally ripped to shreds in front of the whole group. One of the women literally snapped (mentally) and experienced a complete, seemingly permanent personality/identity change. Scary stuff. Maybe you weren't there. I don't know. Sometimes I forget that I was there an extra year and some of this stuff may have happened during that year. That year was very strange, to say the least. Having already graduated from the program, it was like I was looking though some kind of window, observing the "goings on" but not being a part of it. Like the invisible man or something. It was like watching a puppet show from behind the stage. That's the only way I can describe it at this moment.

Yes Waysider I do. It was a two hour presentation by one of Howie's old sales buddy's, I can get his name, if it would help. I wrote to Howie, oh, like two weeks about it. Back then, I remember another FLO'er saying that he heard Howie say that he never would do that again. Anyway, I wrote to Howie about it, told him everything I remembered, the bad and the good. He agreed with me on every point that I wrote to him about. He also reported that a few of our FLO'er brothers have, for the most part, said there was some benefit to it. The negative point I would point out was that Rick Watk@@@ was confronted and it startled him. The purpose of confronting someone in the audience really wasn't the point of like this exercise, the purpose of it was to influence everybody else, like "I am glad I am not that guy right now"...to like build attention, common experience in the here and now. Anyway it was wrong and Momentus may contain similar exercise, I am still looking. The exercise also was VITALLY wrong in that who would have the balls to just walk away, pack up, go home, and pack a bowl, watch some porn, and live in the basement of their mother's place...So, wrong in the first place, wrong in that we trusted Howie and didn't confront him on that score, right then and there. For me, yes,I got some bit of stuff about attention to detail, however that is about all, I have thought more about Rick turning white and pale, you know, Rick, albeit on the religious side, his behavior, didn't ask, expect, or deserve it, he really wasn't giving up a year of his life, like with no sex, a break in his career, serving the Lord Jesus Christ to have someone question why he was in the FLO program..

Yes, my rant, I did a couple of bong hits an hour ago...

Bless,

Michael Chudzinski

Oh, Steve, give me a few days to write back to you here, I am in the middle of helping someone move.

Waysider said:

"Take the WOW program, for example. "Grow ten years in one", "Gain a greater, in-depth spiritual perception.", blah, blah, blah, blah. For cryin' out loud. There was nothing spiritual about it. It was simply an unpaid sales/recruiting campaign for the PFAL class."

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Oh, I don't know if the WOW program was as you say...BUT The PFAL Class was definitely a sales tool...

Could we get a basic survey on the use of Marijuana, i.e. chronic, weed, sweet smoke, da bomb, swag, reefer, Mr. Happy in a bag, and so on...like one that has sex, age group, educational level, amount of usage?? Just wondering.

michael chudzinski

I love John. I attended his post-TWI home fellowship in Indianapolis for years. He allowed me to teach his fellowship when he was on the road. I was on the editorial staff of Dialogue. John performed our wedding.

I no longer trust John. He teaches demonstrable error, regarding what is actually written in the Word, and refuses to respond to valid criticism. That's what "irresponsible" means. His leadership during the Momentus debacle destroyed marriages, sent people to hospital psych wards and resulted in suicides. He still blames those things on the weakness of the people who suffered, and not on his own foolishness ("foolishness" as in Galatians 3:1, "thoughtlessness").

Jeremiah 17:9 says the heart is deceitful above all things, because everything that comes out of a person's own heart seems right and clean to that person, whether it really is or not. Hebrews 4:12 says that the Word of God is the critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The thing that moves a person to submit the thoughts and intents of his or her heart to the criticism of the Word of God is the fear of the Lord. Wierwille was not afraid of being wrong before God. He just didn't care whether or not he was actually wrong. Wierwille taught us, including John Lynn, that we should not fear the Lord. Wierwille trained us that we do not accept the criticism of the Word. That is the major TWI error that John has not yet addressed.

John Lynn has allowed himself to be deceived by his own heart. I love him as my brother in Christ, but I cannot trust his leadership, or the Biblical accuracy of the things he teaches.

Love,

Steve

Steve;

I do admit that that I have very little knowledge about the Momentus..what is it a movement or theology/ I will look it up and reply later. i have no knowledge of the fear the Lord part of your posting. Am I correct in saying that "fear" equals "respect"? that is the definition and usage I remember from VPW. Thanks for the reply, give me a bit to look up Momentus...michael

hey guys and girls;

I scanned as many of the posts here as possible and I though I would add my two cents worth. I knew of John Lynn back in 1974. I was a WOW ambassador in Nashville, TN. So, Robin Gli@@k leaves the WOW field like the second week, one of my two "sisters". She goes back to Indiana where John Lynn was the Limb Leader.

Some of you know some of the details of my walk with The Way International. It's not like I have done a book on it, I just really wasn't where some of you were or even last as long as some of you did. My only real growth, as painful as it was, was in the Fellowlaborers of Ohio program..under Howard Yere@@@n and James Mil@@. My whole thing, really while in The Way was that I loved the family, the household, but I just did not develop a real relationship or understanding of who and what Jesus Christ was/is, really anything. Where I am going with this is this, The Way International, growing as large as it did, really had some holes in it. I have read many stories about sexual abuse, believers messing up other believers marriages, a whole lot of bad, bad things. To me, the fact is that there were/are a lot of Christians around then and now, how many I do not know...what I do feel is that there were/are still these holes going on in the Body of Christ..that Body requires all the parts to stand in order to close up those holes, these gaps that allow more damage than Carter has little liver pills to occur, needs not being met, the real joy that Christianity is supposed to be, the great stuff that God really wants for us, prosperity, health, meaning...

John Lynn is a teacher. That is his job. From my personal experience, Christianity is skilled labor, we each have our specialty and yes we individually can sort of bridge the gap, help people reasonably well outside of our specialty......but its a stretch. John Lynn is no different in the things he can do. John has really helped me. He has never failed to write me back when I send him a letter. I haven't always been all that loving of a dude, have thrown some real sh@@ John's way at times. And yet, he has handled it.

John really loves the Lord Jesus Christ. To me, that was one of those things the Way just did not develop...and there were consequences, dramatic consequences. Personally, right now, I am having the time of my life, I am loving life, being "influenced" by John. John does not lord over my life, my decisions... Yes, John has made some real mistakes in his life, there are some mistakes clearly discussed on here, a divorce from Elizabeth, a marriage, a short marriage to another believer (don't remember her name) and a remarriage to Elizabeth....but so what, big deal...Each of us is alive and kicking, some of us have been around since the seventies, the eighties, the nineties...well folks we are here, we are there, we are in, we are out...what really stays the same, ya, the Word of God. Think about it sometime. I personally challenge anyone to write me and tell me how flipped out they have ever been in their lives (cause I can do them one better) or have not been flipped out, but waning, slowing down in their walk, dis-illusionment, boredom, whatever...geez life goes on for a while and none of us is perfect.

I am learning about walking with God and the Lord Jesus Christ every day. John has only influenced me, it is still my walk. I haven't even contributed to the Living Truth Fellowship and I have been corresponding with John off and on now for six years. So, honestly John is getting rich off of the what 10 -12 - 14 fellowships right now? Sh@@, he works a job, some basic honest labor.

I don't know, I am hearing just a lot of picking at nothing with regard to John Lynn. I will tell you from my experience that my association with John hasn't had the complexity of walking with the Way International...like the tithe crap, the angry, insane ramblings of LCM, VPW getting pedicures, grace includes men of God sleeping with unmarried or married women.

Tell me whats on your mind...maybe I can simplify it for you. The only thing I cannot do is argue the Word of God, discuss sure, but the book says what it says, regardless of what John teaches, what I think, what you think...and that boys and girls is the crux of the whole matter..a spiritual battle.

Bless,

michael chudzinski

Anybody have any information on Del Duncan? Whereabouts? Current or old web sites? Last seen? anyone? Anyone?

No, Cindy A. was the Womens' coordinator our first year. She left during that year, but, I don't know anything about the circumstances. Larry W. left with Pam S. If I understand correctly, they were dismissed because they were having an "interpersonal relationship". If you will recall, that sort of thing was forbidden. They returned the following year as a married couple. They split up shortly after graduation. I ran into Larry about 2 years ago. He is doing fine despite some health problems that plagued him for a while. He has since remarried to a lovely lady. They have two beautiful daughters in college.

I think the bee guy was Rick W@ts*n. Not sure on that one.

I have thought about it and I was Mr. Ya#co#is, the bee guy..thanks for reminding me about Cindy and Pam.

Mr. Garden and I perused the 3/4 picture and he agrees. "That is too you!" he said but couldn't remember the dress, either. Hopefully my taste has improved.

Who is the guy to your immediate left, and the girl to his immediate left? We couldn't find C*ndy Anders*n, either.

And who is the hair-challenged fellow on the right between Norbert and Larry?

WG

Waysider is right, thats Bruce D. To Waysider's left, I can't recall his name, but he was the gentleman that kept the bees and gave the bees to me. Cindy A., was she the woman who was sent home with Larry?

I am still looking for anyone who went WOW in Nashville, TN. Or knows information. Anyone in the FLO of Ohio program...

Barbara Sue Stewart

Lynn Menzing

Le Ella Danielson

thanks,

michael chudzinski