AnonymousJ
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Posts posted by AnonymousJ
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FYI BREAKTHROUGH TRAINING is the new name used instead of MOMENTUS and most of the "graduates" of this training suffer from total depression after the training and it is atributed to this training. They are the strangest people, not having a mind of their own and walk around like zombies.
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i wouldn't say it is cultish. there wasn't any push to keep you as a member or anything like that. people were
free to speak their mind, and leave at anytime.
this type of training is not for all. but some do get a lot from the training. i did.
why would you say it was cultish ?
THE ABOVE is absolutely FALSE. They use high pressure tactics, including but not limited to: calling all day long, trying to get key people including "the pastor" from said church to coerce you into taking the training. VERY VERY cultish to say the least.
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Momentus Breakthrough Training attitude toward the church in general is suspicious and critical. They seem to have encountered a lot of suspicion from local churches whose members have gotten involved in Momentus. This is with good reason, I would say, and any pastor that doesn't examine their premises and practices with care is doing a disservice to the flock. They attack churches for being either "gnostic" (their code word for charismatic, experience centered) or "textualists" (a code word for doctrinally centered). While there are certainly legitimate concerns in both extremes, the impression you get from the book is that these aren't the extremes, but represent most of the American church.
This last issue may reflect another part of their spiritual heritage. At least four of the many people listed in their acknowledgments are former leaders in The Way International, a cult that drew many people out of the Jesus movement. I don't want to argue that the leaders of Mashiyach are guilty by association, but the convergence of some key doctrines certainly points to that suspicion. Among the Way's key teachings that resonate with Killing the Victim are: rejection of the Trinity, a suspicion of other churches, and the idea that believing can cause things to happen.
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MOMENTUS attitude toward the church in general is suspicious and critical. They seem to have encountered a lot of suspicion from local churches whose members have gotten involved in Momentus. This is with good reason, I would say, and any pastor that doesn't examine their premises and practices with care is doing a disservice to the flock. They attack churches for being either "gnostic" (their code word for charismatic, experience centered) or "textualists" (a code word for doctrinally centered). While there are certainly legitimate concerns in both extremes, the impression you get from the book is that these aren't the extremes, but represent most of the American church.
This last issue may reflect another part of their spiritual heritage. At least four of the many people listed in their acknowledgments are former leaders in The Way International, a cult that drew many people out of the Jesus movement. I don't want to argue that the leaders of Mashiyach are guilty by association, but the convergence of some key doctrines certainly points to that suspicion. Among the Way's key teachings that resonate with Killing the Victim are: rejection of the Trinity, a suspicion of other churches, and the idea that believing can cause things to happen.
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The Way International has been known as a CULT for years. It's a mind control cult. That however is apparently only obvious to a normal christian. It appears that those that have been involved in this cult have difficulty differentiating between truth and non truths.
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Can you please elaborate on what you mean in the above quote, bold section?
NOONE IS EVER READY TO TAKE THESE BRAINWASHING COURSES. We are made by God, we belong to God. God has the last say on any and all topics including this one. We don't need to be brainwashed for God to straighten out your life.
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I completed a seminar that was very similar to Momentus - Vision Quest - and I had an enlightening experience. It was also exhausting, and very difficult at times in places where I had to face some of the less noble or weaker parts of myself. But in the end, I learned a whole lot about myself and how to connect with God, and discoverd or rediscoverd some of the more important points about being a Christian man. It was for me a productive, positive, character building time...
That said, I would say that this type of training is not for everyone...those that are not ready might not have such fruitful experiences.
No I don't think that CES's involvement with Momentus was an example of being blown about by every wind of doctrine. I think it was an example of them realizing that CES/STFI doesn't hold all the answers - doctrinally or practically - so it is a wise thing to collaborate with others of good reputation.
CES/STFI has made a lot of mistakes, but I don't see their involvement with Momentus as a mistake. IMHO.
You don't have an opinion. You are not allowed to have a brain. You've been thinking what you were brainwashed with. That's too bad that you feel that Jesus Christ cannot transform your life.
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Cults, cults, cults period. They are cult programs. (momentus) Altered state of Conciousness. The people that have taken this training walk around like zombies with a dazed look in their eye and this is the truth. They have no mind of their own, independent thinking is not allowed but wait, isn't that how God created us to think and make decisions, to have a free will. To choose to serve God. They do not know whether they are coming or going and their life revolves around this cultish program.
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The offshoot that I was involved with did not say (outright) that churches were worthless. However, the offshoot I was involved in truly believed that what was taught in a church (any church) paled in comparison to what it brought to the table. My offshoot borrowed from churches heavily in terms of offerings like worship style and then distilled it for the offshoot's use. My former offshoot did not keep anyone from attending a church, but doing so marked you as an outsider. In its eyes, it was better to be an atheist than someone who had "defected" to a church.
They don't come out and say that to your face anyway, not to attend other churches, that would be far to normal. What they do is have your friends or peers tell you things they don't have the balls to say. Knocking down other churches that arent cultish in nature is the thing they do practice. I know this firsthand. This is definitely "doctrines of Demons" The worship music etc is only a cover for what they are really about.
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SANTA ROSA CHRISTIAN CHURCH in Santa Rosa, California is one such church. It is Creepy at best. This is Dan Tocchini's home church and here they push Momentus on their members and there are many mind games that are played on unknowing people. It was a very bad experience. I went to one of their small groups and discovered most all of the people that have taken these trainings suffer from Severe Depression. I didn't really understand at first. Then when I found out what they were into, I GOT IT! Very creepy I tell you, very creepy. But there are other good Christian churches out there with normal christian people with no new age philosophies.
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Wise move, dmiiller. Some quotes from one article. (I'm leaving out any positive, balanced reporting because I'm convinced Momentus is Bull-shintus and some people just like their pigs wearing lipstick. And I know it was written in 1994, but when someone's gone this far out on the edge, I don't need a flashlight to see they may be a little dented around the ears. That's enough for me.
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In 1990, two years after quitting Lifespring, he was ready. At that time, he was involved in a home Bible study group at an Episcopal church in Petaluma, Calif., and "there was a buzz about our (meetings) in the congregation at large. . . . I (had developed a skill for) honing in on what people were concealing and the concerns of their hearts."
Another image problem for Momentus involves Tocchini's apparent inability to put his message into conversational English. People come out of the seminars spouting such phrases as "showing up," "where do you stand" and "who we are will show up in how we engage with others regarding the commitments that define our relationship."
Recently, Tocchini has begun replacing some of the psychobabble with weird constitutional language. He talks about "governing the capitol that you are" through your personal legislative, executive and judicial branches, and says that getting "aligned with our God-designed identity . . . (enables us to) enjoy the privileges and benefits of a constitutional republic."
A few have also been irked by the perceived elitism of Momentus graduates. "The attitude seemed to be that anyone who had doubts or questions about Momentus would be fine if you just got him through the (seminar)," says Charles Berlin, an early Santa Rosa supporter who later changed his mind. "But Jesus never said, 'You have to do the seminar.' "
Part of the problem predated Momentus, pastor Strong says. At Tocchini's church, for example, some congregation members were automatically suspicious of the seminar because of fallout from a 1980s movement called shepherding. Under that program, which at one time involved charismatic churches across the country, individuals submitted control of their personal lives to church leaders.
The purpose, Strong says, was to help believers follow biblical teachings, but it got to the point where "people were being told how often to have sex with their wives." That, he says, "left many wary of the next fad. And when that next fad came through–in the form of Momentus–a bunch of people not only said 'no,' but 'hell no.' "
Some observers suggest that the controversy over Momentus may be a lot of sound and fury over nothing. The effects of the seminar on graduates, say several supporters and critics who have watched it long term, often fade or disappear after a few months.
Rex Julian Beaber, a psychologist and attorney familiar with encounter groups, says that isn't surprising:
"The grand lesson of the whole marathon group encounter movement is that the effects are very short-lived. . . . It is very difficult to change another human being."
The only reason people think their lives are different is because "they confuse emotional intensity with significance. What are they doing now that they weren't doing before? Were they unemployed people who now have jobs? . . . Are they best friends with someone they couldn't forgive? The evidence of real change is usually trivial."
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Havens, indeed. Sounds like they were more like hornet's nests.
I don't know if it's true or not but I heard tell 3rd hand that at one of these mental slop-fests a guy being interrogated and accused by his "friends" hauled off and levelled one of them out, flat out punched the other guy right out of his chair. I bet he never got a refund.
HAHAHA! I love it! Now that is music to my ears. They deserved it, I know. Too bad he didn't get a refund.
But that's definitely change.
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The off shoots are still around. Dan Tocchini's home church, Santa Rosa Christian church is one such. They practice manipulation, mind games like I have never seen in my lifetime and meddle in interpersonal relationships. They hold momentus introductory meetings at the church property and try to co-oerce members into paying the 500.00 and into taking the training without offering information. When you refuse the trainings, they pretty much let everyone know that this person didn't want to be "known". Most of the members of this church suffer from serious depression episodes. The Pastor constantly refers to "Transformation" in his teachings. It is unlike anything I have ever seen.
But that al being said, there are still some normal biblically based churches, we just have to look "carefully"
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SANTA ROSA CHRISTIAN CHURCH is one such haven if you can call it that. This is where momentus originated and for the record, it is still alive at this cult place. The people at this church have all been through this training and they are manipulative and absolutely just horrible. Dan Tocchini went to speak there one Sunday. This so called church is one big manipulative scam. They are constantly trying to scam people into taking this breakthrough training and when you refuse they claim its because you dont want to be "known" The pastor constantly refers to "Transformation" I am a long time christian and instantly knew this was not of God and left that church. They mess with interpersonal relationships and work and anything to do with your person. It iwas the absolute worst experience. Be warned they are alive and well
Is GreaseSpot an anti twi website?
in About The Way
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A
What I meant by Normal Christian is a non CULT involved Christian.