Doze

Hey Ref is that Austraiian Rule Football you are referring to...man I never understood that game! Especially the theatrics of the referee when that rugby ball soared through the uprights.

More on the subject: don't know too much about JW's other than the occasional front door visit from "odd looking women passing out "The Watchtower" at my front door. For me it was rather intoxicating thinking I was somehow more enlightened than all the carnal minded folk walking around planet Earth. Akin to taking LSD. After all, we were the hippie generation looking for a new drug...and VP delivered it for awhile...but like most addictions, I got over it.

I remember taking abnormal psychology in college in the early 70's when homosexuality was still in the book. As a matter of fact my brother in law is a psychology professor and we were just talking about how it used to be taught in abnormal psch in the 70's to early 80's. Now most mainstream psych classes teach that it is quite normal. I don't remember anything being said about threesomes...perhaps it wasn't in old craig's book a KU either.

Thank God I was never be exposed to ubiquitous hidden meaning of WAP. Anyone want to become the next pariah of all truth given to the humble Okie? Somewhere between the rants, cursing and spitting the pure undefiled Word of God...ya think?

Loy-the ultimate master of piffle and just look what it did for him.

Hey Dovey,

Always enjoy reading your comments...my prayers are with you...I hope to meet you and yours in SoCal sometime...hang in there...God is good!

An update on monkey bigotry:

At my weekly pickup backyard basketball game where I try to take advantage of teenagers on there driveway court with the 8 ft. goal, I heard some of the nastiest monkey trash talk I have ever heard in my life (it might have been there before, perhaps I am just noticing it now that I am a believer) but I heard things like "Monkey see Monkey do" and "You're hanging on to the rim like a Monkey". Well, with self righteous anger I snapped back "I won't play anymore or even talk to snotty little teenagers who take the name of monkeys in vain". They stopped playing and immediatley wanted to here more. I pulled out 7 green cards and signed them all up. We will be running a class as soon as they get their allowance money together. Is it still $40? That is what I told them, so I hope it's ok Bluzeman

I was a carnal monkey skeptic...going through this life in darkness...as I was driving along the highway flipping through the radio dial...I heard Jim Rome say "The Monkey is in the house"...I thought "wierd" having thought all this monkey talk was "just wrong"...then I switched stations...to my amazement! Do you know what song was playing? I'm a believer by the Monkees! I was changed in a nanosecond from darkness to light! I broke out in song

I saw the light

I saw the light

No more darkness

No more night

Tears were rolling down my cheeks...I was screaming Hallelujah! Praise the Monkeys! I happened to gaze over at the guy in the car next to me...he gave me the most godawful look I have ever seen...then I realized the hatred people have toward true monkey believers...I don't care my feet are stuck in cement in my monkey belief now!

One last question? Did original sin have anything to do with spanking "the" Monkey?

I agree with Steve and Tom. If someone is really just promoting their own agenda (we all do to a much lesser degree) then move it out of "About the Way". In the advertising business, a premium is paid for position. Allowing anyone to have preferential position (front page or prime time) as the Open and About the Way forums are, to constantly propagandize their agenda is beyond being fair. If Mike's threads are being kept there for it's popularity (largely due to the entertainment factor/people like to watch car chases), thats one thing. However, for him it pure proselytizing...I say move it to the back pages.

Mike,

It seems to me that if in fact Jesus Christ in the future will be teaching out of one of Wierwille's collaterals, God would be very reticent in allowing you (who apparently speaks for God) to say it. Futhermore, just think about it objectively for one moment. What has Jesus Christ been doing the last 2000 years? Seated at the right hand of God almighty. He is our intermediary with God. Our advocate to God for us. He is God's only begotten son who always did his father's will. He is the perfect man tempted at all points, yet without sin. He will come back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. When he that is perfect comes back then the eyes of our understanding will be opened wide. Now, we only know in part and prophecy in part, then there will be no need for collaterals used in this administration. The whole idea of The Savior Jesus Christ requiring Wierwille's collaterals is ridiculous. Think about it?Whats next? Jesus Christ teaching out of your writings Mike? Reminds me of Oral Roberts saying that God was going to take him to heaven unless his followers came up with a million dollars. Did the prophets of the old testament gloat that Jesus Christ would be reading out of their books in the future? It's really just a silly statement Mike, if not a blasphemous one...but I will let God be the judge of that...and while on the topic of judgement...I look forward to his judgement not yours.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mstar1:

I just read this article and thought Id pass it on:

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsu...rts/8126059.htm

"People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers; it has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.

"This field, this game, is a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again. Ohhhh, people will come, Ray. People will most definitely come."

James Earl Jones

in Field of Dreams

---

My favorite movie mstar1...made me cry..."all I ever wanted to do was play catch with my father. Is there really a place called heaven Dad? Oh yeah there is a heaven" cried like a baby...my wife looked at me like I had lost my mind...she didn't understand...guess it's not a chick flick?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike:

Doze,

You wrote: “If we (dissenters) do not accept your basic proposition regarding PFAL being the inerrant/inherent "Word of God" then we therfore are considered unworthy or unlearned in it's mastery...”

This is not my position. You are misunderstanding some subtle points.

I have posted many times now that I have a verse that will show how attitude is MOST important in working AEs and in mastering PFAL the way we need to. YET, no one has expressed the slightest desire to hear the verse.

Without the attitude of meekness toward the material, many things will slip by unattended to.

Here’s one such subtle point: It’s not the unworthiness of the researcher that I emphasize, it’s the unworthiness of the TECHNIQUE non-meek researchers use that is deficient.

Heck, I can hang out with people who aren’t meek to PFAL and like them. I did so last night with three GreaseSpot posters from this board. We had pizza and beer by the beach and had a WONDERFUL time. It was difficult to leave their presence. I was privileged to be in their company.

They understand that I consider them PLENTY worthy to hang out with and enjoy. They know it’s their techniques for examining the details of PFAL that I distance myself from. Why can’t you see it this way too?

Mike Mike Mike~In the past many here approached VPW's writings with same meekness as you. If we did not fully understand or comprehend we followed his instructions and held it in abeyence until could comprehend. Problem was he as our "teacher" did not allow his propositions to be questioned by us. Despite of the fact that he stated we could if through diligent research with meekness proved otherwise. He said it, but did not mean it. He sacked researchers on his own research staff that challenged any tenet of PFAL. It was he who was not meek. His insecurties did not allow him to operate in a new dynamic church.

***

You wrote: “There are many here who are your equal in debating these issues (and I am not one of them)...it is you who use distraction, by dismissing their arguments out of hand because of their insistance on scrutinizing the writings of Victor Paul Wierwille.”

I’m not here to debate, but to simply deliver the message. I also engage in a LIMITED amount of discussion about what I post, and I try to include logic and reason in those discussions. But as for a full blown logical proof, that can only be transmitted from the Author of the books to the mastering reader of the books.

It’s only when people insist on such a full blown proof, or that I submit to THEIR full blown dis-proof that I will employ methods that are Biblical (dodge, distract, etc) but that really rile those who insist I engage using their ground rules. Sorry it’s MY rules as I received from God that I employ here regarding my message, not yours or anyone else’s.

It is you sir who brought up rules of debate, rhetoric and logic. Your even referenced other sources now only to say you are playing by a different set of rules (namely yours/save the bs on receiving them from God). You mean all I have to do is to but God's signiture on any ridiculous thing I say, thus declaring it unchallengable.

You and Rafael and an army here can cry, and stamp your feet, and call me an idolater all you want. You are just painting yourselves into a corner that will be very shameful when you finally do see Jesus Christ teaching out of a orange PFAL book. I have already seen him this way, so I know you will too.

---

This is even more preposterous Mike. I do not cry or stamp my feet nor have I called you an idolater. I do think it is blasphemous to say Jesus Christ will be teaching out of the orange PFAL book. My guess is that even VPW himself would agree. After the return of Christ there will be no need to teach out of a book containing limited knowledge that will be obsolete compared to what will be available to us then. I haven't painted myself into a corner, that would be you in the corner Mike.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike:

No, I don't want to silence dissent, only point out when dissenters have run out of arguments and try to shoot the messenger.

In the field of debate, rhetoric, and logic, it's called the argumentum ad hominem.

---

It all sounds very intellectual Mike...only problem you violate almost all rules of debate, rhetoric and logic yourself. If we (dissenters) do not accept your basic proposition regarding PFAL being the inerrant/inherent "Word of God" (and there has been much put forward as to it's inaccuracy) then we therfore are considered unworthy or unlearned in it's mastery (to your level) to even debate your self promoted enlightened understanding of it.

There are many here who are your equal in debating these issues (and I am not one of them)...it is you who use distraction, by dismissing their arguments out of hand because of their insistance on scrutinizing the writings of Victor Paul Wierwille. Your proposition that it is "God Breathed" should be placed under greater scrutiny simply because of how preposterous and presumptous it is. So far, you have offered no proof to the contrary.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike:

Garth,

It's no secret that I reject your reality totally.

Why mention the obvious? Nothing else to say?

Most reject your delusional reality (PFAL God Breathed)

It's obvious and we (including Garth) have every right to say it. And who cares if you have nothing else to say on the subject? (condescendingly narcisssistic). Until, you take your agenda over the world and silence all dissent...we will keep saying it.

---

Kit,

Looks like I'm going to have to invest in plastic outdoor furniture! As soon as my current stuff thaws out...I guess I will have to sell it...actually it't 70 degrees here in Indy today...freaky! thanks

Thanks guys!

Socks, Something of interest to you...The Natural Bedroom's wool comes from ranches in Sonoma County (there is more than just vineyards in Sonoma) under the Pure Grow Wool trademark in a program that encourages sustainable environmentally friendly ranching techniques. This program promotes developing healthy sheep herds without the use of chemicals or drugs. No overgrazing with herds that are too large to environmentally sustain the land. Responsible ranching techniques is the key. Similar to organic farming techniques in the food industry. Your area is leading the nation for "certified organic" types of products. This movement is now becoming more mainstream, so I think there is a very bright future for this type of product. The problem is it is very expensive to do...therefore the products are pricey. As we get more critical mass, we can lower the costs. For now we rely on consumers who are willing to pay more to support these types of responsible farming and ranching techniques.

Another great product from the Bay area in my industry is a company by the name of McRoskey Airflex. These folks are great friends of mine who have been very successful making products the old fashioned way. For lack of a better word, they have developed a real "cult following".

I am in the bedding biz. I will be joining forces with a company that is one the largest manufacturer of organic cotton and wool bedding products in the US. We will be producing ultra high end English style mattresses we sell to upscale shops and designers around the US. We currently have customers in West LA and Newport Beach in California, so it makes sense to do it there. The company sells it's products under the Natural Bedroom name to a very "green market". Their best market is Northern Cal. We also are negotiating with a national company to sell our combined products through their stores and catalogue. My new partner (NBW) is one of the hardest working, straightforward and honest individuals I have ever met who shares the same vision and passion as I do regarding this venture. He is a guy who started this out of his garage 20 years ago and has had great success exploiting this niche of the business.

Socks,

Actually, the company where I will be working is in South El Monte. No offense to all El Monteans, but I won't live there. I would much rather be in NoCal where you are. You gotta go where the green (as in money) is. We are hoping to live east of there--Ontario to Redlands off the 10 freeway. It's only an hour at 5 AM.

Can you imagine manifestations in your best Cheech&Chong impersonation? "Wow man...like dig this blah blah blah"

quote:

---

Originally posted by Goey:

As far as fabrication goes...I wasn't there, so who am I to say it didn't happen.

---

What kind of thinking is this?

This is exactly the opposite thinking of folks like Oldies, who seem to think that if they weren't there it didn't happen. Both prospectives are 'head in the sand' and go too far to one side, spinning the actual facts and truth.

Fly Minion was talking about manufactured negative things being said about TWI...I am not spinning facts or truth...all I'm saying is without verifiable credible witnesses, I don't know if it's true or untrue. I have read things that people say that I seriously question to be true. I think it would be more honest to specifically call those people out, rather than cast a cloud of doubt over every negative thing stated about the way. If I wasn't there I can't say for sure if it did or did not happen...is that better?

Hey dmiller,

Insane or what huh? I have already done the U-Haul thing between here and there...I have a funny U-Haul story though. I was driving the largest one (24 ft. I think?) with my wife's black lab laying on the seat next to me...somewhere in New Mexico coming down a mountain the dog decides to readjust and hits the stick where you put the truck in drive and puts the truck into neutral...well when you put the truck in neutral the truck automatically turns the engine off with no power steering...I 'm barrelling down the mountain with no power or power steering...after near heart failure for what seemed like a minute I got the thing restarted and barely averted taking the sucker over the guard rail and over a cliff. I vowed I would never do it again...well so much for vows.

I will miss Indiana, but business and my daughter will bring me back pretty often.

Fly Minion,

I'll take your perspective (like all the others) with a grain of salt. Unlike TWI, here on GS we have that right. You walk in your shoes...I will walk in mine...sometimes we find ourselves walking in the same direction, sometimes not. As far as fabrication goes...I wasn't there, so who am I to say it didn't happen.

NK native,

Thanks...You are on my prayer list too.

Good timing on the move to California...just before the state goes bankrupt. With the price of real estate I will probably living in the far fringe of greater LA...somewhere near Blythe...then I can spend all my money on gas and all my time in freeway gridlock...but at least I'll be unthawed.

Hey Oenophile,

Praying buddy, I have a couple of contacts here in Indianapolis.

Carroll Company/Dean Medeiros(Godfather winemaker from Portugal)-Corporate Sommelier in Fishers IN.

Wine Gallery by 21st. Amendment/Marcel Paschal (French guy from Burgandy-the man raising the bar for wine enthusiasts in Indy) Carmel Indiana

I know both personally...If you want a referal I can give you my name in PT.

Dot,

You've got a great heart for God and his people...you will succeed...I believe God honors that. I am young and now am Old, I have not seen the rightous forsaken or their seed begging bread (something like that/it's in there somewhere?).

My wife and I are moving to California and consolidating our business into an existing business in El Monte. My wife is a native Californian and looking forward to being back close to her sons in Redlands. We are selling our house and looking for housing there. I have found a like minded company that shares by vision and passion for our very ultra high end products. We will be moving in the next couple of months and have many loose ends to tie up. Thanks in advance for your very effectual prayers.