Doze

Hey Ref is that Austraiian Rule Football you are referring to...man I never understood that game! Especially the theatrics of the referee when that rugby ball soared through the uprights. More on the subject: don't know too much about JW's other than the occasional front door visit from "odd looking women passing out "The Watchtower" at my front door. For me it was rather intoxicating thinking I was somehow more enlightened than all the carnal minded folk walking around planet Earth. Akin to taking LSD. After all, we were the hippie generation looking for a new drug...and VP delivered it for awhile...but like most addictions, I got over it.

I remember taking abnormal psychology in college in the early 70's when homosexuality was still in the book. As a matter of fact my brother in law is a psychology professor and we were just talking about how it used to be taught in abnormal psch in the 70's to early 80's. Now most mainstream psych classes teach that it is quite normal. I don't remember anything being said about threesomes...perhaps it wasn't in old craig's book a KU either.

Thank God I was never be exposed to ubiquitous hidden meaning of WAP. Anyone want to become the next pariah of all truth given to the humble Okie? Somewhere between the rants, cursing and spitting the pure undefiled Word of God...ya think? Loy-the ultimate master of piffle and just look what it did for him.

An update on monkey bigotry: At my weekly pickup backyard basketball game where I try to take advantage of teenagers on there driveway court with the 8 ft. goal, I heard some of the nastiest monkey trash talk I have ever heard in my life (it might have been there before, perhaps I am just noticing it now that I am a believer) but I heard things like "Monkey see Monkey do" and "You're hanging on to the rim like a Monkey". Well, with self righteous anger I snapped back "I won't play anymore or even talk to snotty little teenagers who take the name of monkeys in vain". They stopped playing and immediatley wanted to here more. I pulled out 7 green cards and signed them all up. We will be running a class as soon as they get their allowance money together. Is it still $40? That is what I told them, so I hope it's ok Bluzeman

:D--> :D--> :D--> I love it...kinda like street corner preachers.

I was a carnal monkey skeptic...going through this life in darkness...as I was driving along the highway flipping through the radio dial...I heard Jim Rome say "The Monkey is in the house"...I thought "wierd" having thought all this monkey talk was "just wrong"...then I switched stations...to my amazement! Do you know what song was playing? I'm a believer by the Monkees! I was changed in a nanosecond from darkness to light! I broke out in song I saw the light I saw the light No more darkness No more night Tears were rolling down my cheeks...I was screaming Hallelujah! Praise the Monkeys! I happened to gaze over at the guy in the car next to me...he gave me the most godawful look I have ever seen...then I realized the hatred people have toward true monkey believers...I don't care my feet are stuck in cement in my monkey belief now! One last question? Did original sin have anything to do with spanking "the" Monkey?

I agree with Steve and Tom. If someone is really just promoting their own agenda (we all do to a much lesser degree) then move it out of "About the Way". In the advertising business, a premium is paid for position. Allowing anyone to have preferential position (front page or prime time) as the Open and About the Way forums are, to constantly propagandize their agenda is beyond being fair. If Mike's threads are being kept there for it's popularity (largely due to the entertainment factor/people like to watch car chases), thats one thing. However, for him it pure proselytizing...I say move it to the back pages.

Mike, It seems to me that if in fact Jesus Christ in the future will be teaching out of one of Wierwille's collaterals, God would be very reticent in allowing you (who apparently speaks for God) to say it. Futhermore, just think about it objectively for one moment. What has Jesus Christ been doing the last 2000 years? Seated at the right hand of God almighty. He is our intermediary with God. Our advocate to God for us. He is God's only begotten son who always did his father's will. He is the perfect man tempted at all points, yet without sin. He will come back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. When he that is perfect comes back then the eyes of our understanding will be opened wide. Now, we only know in part and prophecy in part, then there will be no need for collaterals used in this administration. The whole idea of The Savior Jesus Christ requiring Wierwille's collaterals is ridiculous. Think about it?Whats next? Jesus Christ teaching out of your writings Mike? Reminds me of Oral Roberts saying that God was going to take him to heaven unless his followers came up with a million dollars. Did the prophets of the old testament gloat that Jesus Christ would be reading out of their books in the future? It's really just a silly statement Mike, if not a blasphemous one...but I will let God be the judge of that...and while on the topic of judgement...I look forward to his judgement not yours.

My favorite movie mstar1...made me cry..."all I ever wanted to do was play catch with my father. Is there really a place called heaven Dad? Oh yeah there is a heaven" cried like a baby...my wife looked at me like I had lost my mind...she didn't understand...guess it's not a chick flick?

This is even more preposterous Mike. I do not cry or stamp my feet nor have I called you an idolater. I do think it is blasphemous to say Jesus Christ will be teaching out of the orange PFAL book. My guess is that even VPW himself would agree. After the return of Christ there will be no need to teach out of a book containing limited knowledge that will be obsolete compared to what will be available to us then. I haven't painted myself into a corner, that would be you in the corner Mike.

It all sounds very intellectual Mike...only problem you violate almost all rules of debate, rhetoric and logic yourself. If we (dissenters) do not accept your basic proposition regarding PFAL being the inerrant/inherent "Word of God" (and there has been much put forward as to it's inaccuracy) then we therfore are considered unworthy or unlearned in it's mastery (to your level) to even debate your self promoted enlightened understanding of it. There are many here who are your equal in debating these issues (and I am not one of them)...it is you who use distraction, by dismissing their arguments out of hand because of their insistance on scrutinizing the writings of Victor Paul Wierwille. Your proposition that it is "God Breathed" should be placed under greater scrutiny simply because of how preposterous and presumptous it is. So far, you have offered no proof to the contrary.

Kit, Looks like I'm going to have to invest in plastic outdoor furniture! As soon as my current stuff thaws out...I guess I will have to sell it...actually it't 70 degrees here in Indy today...freaky! thanks

Thanks guys! Socks, Something of interest to you...The Natural Bedroom's wool comes from ranches in Sonoma County (there is more than just vineyards in Sonoma) under the Pure Grow Wool trademark in a program that encourages sustainable environmentally friendly ranching techniques. This program promotes developing healthy sheep herds without the use of chemicals or drugs. No overgrazing with herds that are too large to environmentally sustain the land. Responsible ranching techniques is the key. Similar to organic farming techniques in the food industry. Your area is leading the nation for "certified organic" types of products. This movement is now becoming more mainstream, so I think there is a very bright future for this type of product. The problem is it is very expensive to do...therefore the products are pricey. As we get more critical mass, we can lower the costs. For now we rely on consumers who are willing to pay more to support these types of responsible farming and ranching techniques. Another great product from the Bay area in my industry is a company by the name of McRoskey Airflex. These folks are great friends of mine who have been very successful making products the old fashioned way. For lack of a better word, they have developed a real "cult following".

I am in the bedding biz. I will be joining forces with a company that is one the largest manufacturer of organic cotton and wool bedding products in the US. We will be producing ultra high end English style mattresses we sell to upscale shops and designers around the US. We currently have customers in West LA and Newport Beach in California, so it makes sense to do it there. The company sells it's products under the Natural Bedroom name to a very "green market". Their best market is Northern Cal. We also are negotiating with a national company to sell our combined products through their stores and catalogue. My new partner (NBW) is one of the hardest working, straightforward and honest individuals I have ever met who shares the same vision and passion as I do regarding this venture. He is a guy who started this out of his garage 20 years ago and has had great success exploiting this niche of the business.

Socks, Actually, the company where I will be working is in South El Monte. No offense to all El Monteans, but I won't live there. I would much rather be in NoCal where you are. You gotta go where the green (as in money) is. We are hoping to live east of there--Ontario to Redlands off the 10 freeway. It's only an hour at 5 AM.

Can you imagine manifestations in your best Cheech&Chong impersonation? "Wow man...like dig this blah blah blah"

Hey dmiller, Insane or what huh? I have already done the U-Haul thing between here and there...I have a funny U-Haul story though. I was driving the largest one (24 ft. I think?) with my wife's black lab laying on the seat next to me...somewhere in New Mexico coming down a mountain the dog decides to readjust and hits the stick where you put the truck in drive and puts the truck into neutral...well when you put the truck in neutral the truck automatically turns the engine off with no power steering...I 'm barrelling down the mountain with no power or power steering...after near heart failure for what seemed like a minute I got the thing restarted and barely averted taking the sucker over the guard rail and over a cliff. I vowed I would never do it again...well so much for vows. I will miss Indiana, but business and my daughter will bring me back pretty often.

Fly Minion, I'll take your perspective (like all the others) with a grain of salt. Unlike TWI, here on GS we have that right. You walk in your shoes...I will walk in mine...sometimes we find ourselves walking in the same direction, sometimes not. As far as fabrication goes...I wasn't there, so who am I to say it didn't happen.

NK native, Thanks...You are on my prayer list too. Good timing on the move to California...just before the state goes bankrupt. With the price of real estate I will probably living in the far fringe of greater LA...somewhere near Blythe...then I can spend all my money on gas and all my time in freeway gridlock...but at least I'll be unthawed.

My wife and I are moving to California and consolidating our business into an existing business in El Monte. My wife is a native Californian and looking forward to being back close to her sons in Redlands. We are selling our house and looking for housing there. I have found a like minded company that shares by vision and passion for our very ultra high end products. We will be moving in the next couple of months and have many loose ends to tie up. Thanks in advance for your very effectual prayers.

I had two experiences while in (76-85) on this subject. My uncle who was into very fundimental evangelical Christianity brought me a tape from some guy name Johnny Todd about Witchcraft. My uncle had spoke to him and he told him that the way was into witchcraft. I listened to the tape and this guy pretty much pegged every group as into witchcraft but his. I dismissed it as just another religious idiot with diarrhea of the mouth with the conviction of Mike. My uncle went around a stirred up my parents and family about it. Fortunately, my father thought my uncle was off the deep end too. Secondarily, we had a girl come to twig who claimed to be a witch. I witnessed to her at great length with little result. Her response was that all Christians lacked real spiritual power, including the way. Having waybrain at the time, this girl was scary...I summarily dismissed her as just another "war story" from my way experience. What did I learn from this? There are some pretty wacked out people out there with some wacky beliefs. She didn't arouse my curiosity to learn any more about her beliefs. Regarding having some kind of shunning process where we were instructed to pray for bad things to happen to people who walked away...I never heard of it. We kind of viewed them as "How can anyone walk away from what we know". It bothered me, because these folks who were some of my best friends (I thought), no longer wanted anything to do with me. Perhaps TWI2 did it...I was no longer there myself, Praise God.

I agree, vic's way was the ultimate pyramid scheme...the products (costs way below Amway), the workers (volunteers who received no pay/as a matter of fact they paid the way to do their work)...it's brilliant if you have no conscience. It worked so well that even now that the business has virtually dried up, they still have millions in the bank. I own a business, I pay for the products I sell and have to pay competitive wages to people that work for me. There are constant cash flow concerns, finding competent employees who deserve a living wage etc. It is a real struggle to run an honest business with no guarantee of success...but at least I can sleep at night. Vic really was a master at MM, not the Bible. He didn't have to master the Bible, he just stole from others who had.

Money placed in a trust for a minor then subsequently used by the guardian of the trust without permission of the court is an act of fraud. I would say contact the court to notify the judge of this misappropriation of funds without your consent. Normally the court appoints a guardian ad litem to oversee the use of any funds from a minor's trust prior to the minor having access to those funds (usually at age 18). Guardians or parents are never allowed to access this money without going through the guardian ad litem (usually an attorney to oversee the trust for the minor) and the court.