CircleGame

No Way,

If you are taught to distrust and not like as much people who don't belong to your offshoot, that is idolotry. That is saying only people in your offshoot know the truth and can love you. BS!!!! Keep trying to tell them that JC wants us to love all, and reprove sharply the works of darkness. Last night I watched a program by Wayne Dyer, he said "feeling good is feeling God" (assuming a person's conscience isn't seared) if the offshoot makes you feel good, continue, if not don't waste your time.

((((((((((whytedove))))))))))))))))

A good book to read might be "Sorrow" by Norman Vincent Peale. I find that he is good to read sometimes. A Christian who promoted positive believing but did not have a narrow, rigid, controlling ministry. He didn't have any ministry save for his church in NYC, he wrote books so people could be blessed reading his books from their homes, not having to make "commitments" and saying TWI alone has the truth.

IMF777 - I enjoyed that link comparing BG Leonard & VP Wierwille - what is the larger website name??

Everyone else - re: VPW - he is DEAD, his books still live on, some/most plagerized??He influenced people who influenced you (for good and/or for bad...blessings and/or hurts) and for some the influence was direct. (and hurtful)Others who were directly "blessed" aren't posting here....they should be able to....just like people who were directly hurt.The posts and links about BG Leonard clear up a lot of grey areas in my mind re the Way and why it was both good and bad.

Hi Oldies,

Yes I was a part of TWI, and yes I was blessed by various people and events of TWI, such as big dos, teachings, music and classes. Yes, I thought there was a lot of good, and also a lot of bad. (Chiefly the rigid superiority of "good" and "best", and how that evolved into "everyone else is possessed") That sort of doctrine is psychologically abusive and that came from LCM in a very obvious way and VPW in a not so obvious way (but VPW approved of LCM)

I don't know what BG's ministry is like, it might be very boring, it might be very narrow minded, it might be good, it might be like reading a book and that is it, no ministry per se. It was disappointing to see good in TWI and then to see possessiveness, rigid superiority, etc. I didn't have to believe it, but how could I not?? I could have left the first minute I felt disappointed, but I didn't. I didn't believe everything TWI said, but I couldn't disbelieve it either.

((((excathedra))))

Anyone who has been abused is vulnerable.

Some might get a hard shell around them. But most are needy.

TWI seemed like it had answers and could provide deliverance from the hurts and insecurities of past abuse.

I know, because I was psychologically abused in childhood and psychologically abused again in TWI. I was "blessed" at first (by BG's ministry) and then I stayed because I was afraid of depression or worse in the world.

I still believe in God, and like to read books, and go to Church here and there.

Some comments:

Dot - thank you for this thread - it sure is interesting!! I loved your long post about why TWI is both good and bad - due to the uncredited influence of BGL and the over credit of VPW. Shows a lot of thinking and heart..

To Linda Z, Year2027 and others -

I don't mind paying for a Bible Class --

The Bible is free to read

I can go to Church for free and hear the sermon or teaching and a lot of Churches have additional meetings besides Sunday church

I could have just gone to twig and branch, however I was immediately interested in taking PFAL because I liked the title, and I wanted to be like the other "grads"

Paying for classes is not paying for the Word of God, as you already have it in the Bible, it's paying for books, and it pays for the research time and public time of the teacher. He takes time away from work in order to do this. And I don't mind paying.

I like BG Leonard - calling it gifts of the Spirt. I bet he and followers don't say - "All nine all of the time" That was arrogant and inaccurate as no one can be in fellowship "all of the time" (especially the abusive people).

The word "manifestation" implies man-made effort. If God doesn't give you Word of Knowledge - you use your own common sense. I bet BG's group doesn't have "leaders" telling you what to do because God doesn't "waste" revelation!! (yikes - that used to get me when I was in TWI)

Great thread everyone!!

Dot,

When was "Foundations" written?? When was that paragraph written? (I'm trying to see if there were several editions of "Foundations") and if maybe BG Leonard knew of VPW's plagiarism?? I wonder if others were plagiarising?? It's too bad BG didn't take VPW to court about it!!

Sheesh!! WHAT is SO HARD about crediting an author!?!? It is what people do, but sometimes in human error there is inadvertant plagiarism. Like George Harrison in "My Sweet Lord". It sounds like VPW definitely was not inadvertant in plagiarism.

I use "believe G-d" because I was being sarcastic (using the Way saying)

What are messianic teachings DamitJanet?

I don't know about anybody else, but I would have a lot of respect for TWI if they deeded the farm back to the Weirwilles. They can "believe G-d" for a new HQ site. They can start over. They apparently disassociate themselves from VPW, no longer calling him "our father in the Word"??? and don't welcome Weirwille family members to their ancestral home. Get a new home TWI!! It's easy!! Just "believe G-d"

TWI seems to think that the Weirwille family are annoying baggage?!?

Fine, let them turn over the farm back to the Weirwilles!!!

Wow Dot!!

I just started reading this thread!

What an ordeal you went through!!

The things that can happen!

I hope the gloves you wear will protect you.

Check your private topics.

MJ412,

I lost my Way books because I had most of them in storage and didn't pay the rent.

I miss them due to GS Cafe (even though most are negative about TWI) Posts here make me want to take a new look at old books, tapes, etc.I'm glad I've got the books I've got. I reread "living in love" recently and got new insights.

I wonder if non-way people buy them?? People who have heard belatedly that VPW was a good writer, (but that the cult stinks)??

Cult researchers??

People who have been witnessed to??

Sort of an "underground" movement to buy TWI books??

For YEARS I had all my Way books, magasines, and tapes (about 5 years worth) and then I lost most of them because I left them in a storage bin and didn't keep paying the rent. I wish I still had them, maybe one day I shall go on ebay. However, when I had them I used to grimace and scoff when I packed and moved (oh, these stoopid Way books, sheeeesh....)

All I have today is the PFAL book, the Promised Seed, and 3 Way mags..I sort of miss the ones I lost due to GS Cafe...see, even though you're negative about PFAL and materials, I still sorta miss them.

I agree with Sunesis Dot, that post is well-written and thorough. Thank you!!

Oh, here is the other website http://www.libchrist.com/bible/howsexsin.html

Before I knew VPW was a sex abuser, I thought the CF&S class was to get people to realize that you did not have to be puritanical in order to be a good christian - i.e. have sex only for procreation, only use the missionary position, etc. As most of TWI were hippies or exhippies, that was probably a relief. Most born-again groups were labeled as "strict", puritanical, etc. I thought the original sin is masturbation teaching sounded "cultish" but of course thought the rest of TWI was aokay for awhile. As far as homosexuality, premarital sex, even "willing" extramarital sex, you might try a look at another website that has ideas similar to VPWs??? Only they are very out in the open and I assume they don't believe in abuse, rape, etc. Thought maybe they do, I havent' read it thoroughly. They have interesting things to say about Bible and sex, and the puritanism that developed over the centuries. Mainly it was ownership of females that influenced the puritanical attitudes.

Was VPWs adultery the #1 thing that bothers most people or the coercion, abuse??

I can't help but think to each his/her own...at this time in my life.....of course I don't believe in abuse, but to each his/her own....mainly because when you try to be something you're not for a religious ideal....the religious ideal turns out to be false.....TWI version of "best" is such and such and then top leaders don't do it.

[This message was edited by imablvr? on September 22, 2003 at 16:04.]

"I've squandered my resistance on a pocketful of mumbles such are promises

All lies and jest still the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest...

lililil....."

Beauty - that is a question!! Looks can change - are you really what you look like?? Different people can react according to what you look like - a good hair day, a bad hair day, flattering clothes, unflattering clothes, weight gain, etc. Pimples when young, lines when old. Men and boys REALLY react to a pretty or beautiful woman, and it can be surprising. Girls and women react to a good looking guy - and they can be surprised. However, males can be so much noisier!! And the impact can be deeper. For positive or negative. How different are boys and girls under 12?? They are different.. though all boys aren't exactly alike and all girls aren't exactly alike. At different times there have been different cultural expectations of what it means to be a man or a woman and different levels of getting people to "conform". Women historically have been more susceptible, however in the 90's it seems the tuff but good looking woman is the way to be - ala La Femme Nikita, lawyer shows with female lawyers, etc. Good health makes for good looks and good health is important. Excessive vanity is not important I don't think.

Wow Ginger Tea, excellent post!!

I came here a little for "nostalgia" (lingo talk, this & that), closure, and information as to why I felt "vague" about TWI - vague feelings of good and bad, believing it and not believing it. Some of my "vague" feelings have cleared up. It's good to read about other people complaining about things I complained about to myself - "good" vs "best" for example. That was a real killer and a killjoy!! Sometimes I grudgingly followed, sometimes enthousiatically, sometimes gullible, sometimes not at all. Best is not really best and good is good!! GS cafe is good!!

I was supposed to start a new job this past Monday, but it was cancelled on Friday before - a customer service job at a bank. 20 people were supposed to start. So it was cancelled or else just postponed. So, I'm still looking.

Thank you all!! :)-->

Please pray that I find a better job (secretary) with good hours, good location. And I find a better place to live in a good location. Also please pray that I stop feeling negative and depressed. Thanx

I'm praying for your Grandma Rose to pass peacefully and at the right time. I had a Grandma Rose too (my Dad's Mom) She had red hair and was of Irish ancestry. She was 70 years older than I (older than my other Grandma) and lived till 88. I wonder about reports of people (beyond) and VPW's statement that they are devil spirits. I think it sounds "warmer" that people are already there and waiting for us and we can talk to them just before we go. So much of VP's doctrine was harsh and cold (even the 5 things to know before you receive from God)

To bring this back to the top, I think this is an interesting thread. I've read about a page so far. Why diss ALL of VPW's teachings? We were taught (or it was suggested) that we not listen to rock & roll too much because of their lifestyles. Why diss rock music & entertainment? Why totally diss VPW? Everything has some truth..and you can put something aside for years, and then go back and learn something. I put some rock music aside, and then listened to it again and it sounds great!!But narrow minded beliefs in one person is unhealthy I think.

Double post, sorry!!

[This message was edited by imablvr? on July 28, 2003 at 16:15.]