JustThinking

...that I began to see people as potential registrants in a class and not just people.

...that it became impossible to hear other's opinions or ideas. They were simply to be analyzed for weaknesses.

Ex,

I accept this great honor! :-)

Backforty,

I'm a newbie here too.

On keeping a straight face, it was VERY tough. This guy was a treasure trove of comments like that though. Like the time he told me I was a great man of God. My response? "You know nothing about my life, how can you say that?" He kind of stammered a bit and said "people seem to really like you."

The good news with the lady is we did become friends and are to this day. She's now married and enjoying life.

Ex,

Thanks for my early Christmas present. :-)

I think I know this guy. Really. We had a BC that I would NEVER allow a new person to meet. He only knew how to talk about the Bible. I think being a BC meant others HAD to be his friend more than anything about loving God or people.

One day I had invited some people over to hang out. A lady I was interested in also came over as well. However, she had never been to fellowship or anything, the horror! Short story is he starts talking to her in the kitchen about the foundational class and asks her when she's going to register! She had no idea what he was even talking about. Needless to say, no second date for us. :-(

Like you, she thought I had planned this and was part of some weird religious group. (Hmm...) I justed to watch the movie and enjoy the wine. Oh, turns out it was my fault for not dating someone in the household and I shouldn't have served wine at a ministry function. When I pointed out that it WASN'T a ministry function, he said it was because he was there. ???

Wonder,

Washingtonweather is correct about you being very suspect in the eyes of Corps and leaders. As I mentioned, I'm in but on my way out. When we got "old grad" referrals, it was assumed they wouldn't stick around and would be a pain in the butt. The reaction of our corps was almost as if they were more of problem than they were worth.

Obviously, you'll have to make your own decisions. I think I can honestly claim to have be careful in my decision and not just emotional. The irony is that I have applied the standards I was taught by TWI and concluded they are harmful to me. Many people who had problems were M&A because "you know people by their fruit." If that's the case, these people must be horrific in some way. For me, the evidence has become overwhelming.

On the positive side, this site has allowed me to ask questions I would NEVER have asked at fellowship. I'll echo what others have said which is make sure you look carefully before you leap.

Dot,

Thank you. This is what I get for posting while dying from the flu. (Where IS my believing?!) I'm going back to bed now.

>:-|

Is this an old thread? Some dates are '02 and others more recent. Or is this just something that surfaced accidently?

Wonder,

If you're still here, I'm on my way out and can share my thoughts, if you're interested.

Next one:

Lessons in spiritual greatness:

BC joins local recreational baseball team to witness to people. (Friends, family and associates being the theme of the moment) Oddly, none of the people on the team ARE his friends, family or associate. ??? Nor does he have any serious amount of baseball skills. But, hey, can't let that stop outreach, eh? We'll just believe God.

First game, playing outfield, he goes back for a fly ball and drops it. Easy catch gone bad. The other team boos and laughs at him. In telling the story at a FC meeting, he boldly proclaims "They wouldn't have booed if they had known a great man of God was playing!"

He promptly quit and was never seen there again. :-) By the way, that WAS the outreach plan for the month. I guess he only got "revelation" once so it was subject to change. ;-)

I might be the odd one out here. I'm actually in the process of leaving. So where has God taken me? Mentally, I left a while ago so that's what I can discuss.

The short version is that I spend more time with my wife and kids. Work no longer gets neglected to run off to another meeting. And I even get to see my family (brothers, sisters, etc.) more. In general, life feels more "normal." Or maybe I should just say "normal."

Ex,

This isn't a side track for me. It shows the progression you went through which is just as valuable. (At least for me) Thanks for sharing some personal insight.

I'm just now becoming aware of some of these issues. Or more accurately, the scale of the problem. I tended to be a typicaly wayfer and either ignore it or rationalize things.

It is probably a good news/bad news thing that I have usually lived some distance from a LC or BC. It kept me away from having to string my chairs for dinner (kidding). However, I also didn't see many people like yourself who were trying to warn others. My old friends had moved away and just seemed to disappear.

Oh, cool! Consider it my Christmas (yes, I said it!) present. Thank you!

Hope,

I admire your ability to take a long-term view about your own life and marriage. It is wonderful to see any man or woman put so much thought into their actions.

I had a couple in my fellowship who had a VERY similar experience but it was the wife who wasn't ready to leave. It's saddens me to this day how things turned out. They were wonderful people but up with so much grief. They did have some problem areas in their life but no more so than many of us. The local leaders rode them so hard about it that they finally left. No help, just berating. My impression was the local twit who was the BC was scared to death of them because he couldn't hold a candle to their ability. He would make the most ridiculous statements while trying to sound "deep" or "spiritual." They were just vague statements though that didn't mean much. I think in some ways he got tired of getting called on it and decided to get rid of them.

I started a thread about old TWI relationships on this site because of them. It would be nice to find them again and apologize for not fighting harder to get them help.

If you have any advice about approaching them, I would be very grateful. The berating didn't come from me but I didn't do a whole lot as their FC to stop it either. It's something I regret to this day.

Ex,

Playground rules prevail. If you start the biker story, you have to finish. :-P

Oakspear,

LOL! That BC was a sharpie! Thank you. :-)

Another favorite: For a while, LCM had gotten the "revelation" that we were to go to the middle class only. No, really. He compared this brainstorm to Paul's revelation to go to specific areas at specific times. Well, I asked what exactly "middle class" meant and how could I know who was middle class? Keep in mind, this was for door-to-door witnessing. So we had to guage the economic status of the occupant before they opened the door. Well, the BC paused and thought for a minute. The answer? Look at the house, of course!

When I pointed out that I lived in an apartment with a wide variety of people, the BC got really annoyed. So he actually said...

"If they have a fancy door decoration, they're probably not middle class."

Now is that CP1 or what?!

Dovey,

Good for you! And I'm VERY glad you still

have your hubby. :-)

I understand RR still owns her house. Wonder if it's paid for?

wd58,

Dumb question: Do you think it was fear that kept you from talking to you hubby sooner? Fear of his reaction or just fear of making your feelings known at all?

Galen,

Wow! He searched your house? That's very

weird. And they wonder why people are suspicious of them.

What classes have you been running?

Steve!

Whoops! How could I have missed the obvious?!

For those who left without being M&A, kicked out, etc:

How long was it between leaving mentally and leaving physically? There have been a number of posts about how traumatic it was so I'm assuming it typically wasn't done overnight or lightly.

A la,

Sorry you are in a sour mood. :-)

For what it's worth, most of the people in my church growing up weren't much better. Religion attracts a lot of crutch-seekers. Did you have any experience with an offshoot? I don't so I'd be interested if it was any different.

All,

I would be interested in your examples of just silly behavior at TWI. No horror stories, just ridiculous or overly religious actions. My post from another thread:

-----------------

I do have a stupid christmas story though. There was a person in my first TWI fellowship who may have been THE most religious person EVER! Instead of celebrating Christmas, he stayed home and used white out to cover EVERY center margin in his bible. Yep, every page. They're devoid of authority, ya know. The middle of his bible was so thick, it looked like he had a cigar in there. Funniest thing I'd ever seen. He was pretty offended when I lost it and couldn't stop laughing. Apparently, he must have been waiting for that dove to appear and hear "This is My Son..." ;-)

------------------

I also knew a FC who was convinced that acidophilus (Bacteria found in yogurt that help restore a supportive bacterial environment to an intestinal tract) was God's greatest cure-all. It was like a bad joke running through an "Airplane" movie. "Gee, Suzy hasn't signed up for the class yet? Is she getting any Acidophilus?" No kidding, she even recommended it for parents who had infant boys about to be circumcised! I'm sure it's in Dueteronomy somewhere. ;-) She was to Acidophilus-deficiency what LCM was to Debbil Spirits.

I start this thread in the belief that TWI was a magnet for strange characters over the years.

(Yes, I know some real bad ones too but I'm trying to keep this lighthearted.) We all seemed to have suffered from them. Might as well get a chuckle too.

IMO,

The Way was driven by sales people. Make a product, find a market and sell, sell, sell. Convince the sales people they're on a holy mission. (Pay after death is MUCH cheaper than this life, after all) Then you grow your own sales people from the young and impressionable. Big companies still do it today. Recruit bright college grads, instill your corporate culture, make them feel special, use peer pressure to perform, etc. Hate to say it but it's a textbook approach.

Want a scary moment? Find a book on the Hitler Youth and you will see some eery parallels. Recruit young, make them feel special, holy mission, everyone else is evil, blah, blah, blah. I'm not putting them in the same category but the technique has been around for a while.

Vickles,

My only direct knowledge of two offshoots were sadly too much like what they claimed to dislike about TWI. Weirwille worship, supported by old grads, desperately hoping their kids would like it. An occasional new

person who would get the old Way-sales job and run when they saw a bunch of weirdos hanging around talking about the old days. "The Fellowship That Time Forgot." Frozen in 1982. The leader even used VPW phrases and imitated him! SOOOoo spooky. And this wasn't even at one of their fellowships. It was over coffee at my friends house. I just happened to bump into him there.

BTW, he got REALLY offended when I asked him why he talked with a Dr. Weirwille accent when he was from New Jersey! LOL! Oh well, I guess that's why I'm not on his "Ho HO card" list. ;-)

Washingtonweather,

I loved your description. May I borrow it?

:-)