sirguessalot

By Essenes I spoke of the ancient Essenes not any of the modern New Age groups identifying themselves as Essenes.

As Nazarenes we are Torah Observant. The word Torah is generally translated as "law" but really means "guidance or instruction".

We keep the Seventh Day Sabbath from sundown Friday until sundown Saturday. We eat kosher. We keep the Biblical Jewish feasts and abstain from Pagan holidays and practices.

In effect we practice Judaism with the inclusion of Yeshua as the Jewish Messiah of Judaism.

thanks for the clarifications, James

good luck

You hit the target dead on!

thanks. beginner's luck, i guess.

The basic concept is...

Concepts abound...im wondering about actual lifestyles, practices...and otherwise demonstrable results that live up to what is being said and claimed about "Essenes" here and throughout history.

Honestly...if you are going to spend this much time writing all this stuff...can you at least say why your message is so supreme in the bloody red here and now? Can you use words to describe what your Torah looks like in life besides words about words about words about words?

Most anyone here can Google the world these days and find a garden of modern day "Essene" claims and interpretations. Care to say anything about how your concept fits or relates to that picture?

Seems some Essenes quite easily agree that the Way, the Torah, the Tao, the Middle Way, the Golden Mean, Higher Laws and Dharmas and such are all pointing in the same general direction...and we do well not to look only at the finger of God and miss the way the word of God is pointing...and i simply cant help but agree.

Amazing...Abi, i cant help but wonder how those four ways of interpretation might be related to the "four faces of being" in scripture (ezekial, revelation) and elsewhere...or how they might be related to the natural "seasonality" of life and the 4 basic stages we move through in how we interpret scripture and everything.

James, if you dont mind me asking...I'd like to know more about the actual lifestyles and practices of this way of the Nazarene and Essene Judaism you are pointing to. How did/do they live their doctrine? How are these different enough from the "false way" to live up to their legendary qualities in living practical reality today? How are these different enough from TWI in ways that are more than mere differences in translation and interpretation?

Does anyone have insight on this issue? I would love to know the truth.

why limit the question to the jewish branch?

twi theology is also anti-protestant, anti-catholic, anti-apache, anti-hindu, anti-buddhist, anti-taoist, anti-zen, anti-quaker, anti-celt, anti-psychology, anti-science, anti-anthropology, anti-medicine, anti-the overwhelming majority of art and language history...yada yada yada

but for what?

if i may say...most all of those who care for and serve in the fields of dying are typically not doing so out "fascination." So few show up.

and...if the ancient scriptures were inspired by and for ancient workers of these fields, the Bible may be pointing at ancient versions of something very different than we think.

...something more like what Dr Byock is pointing at.

"Ministers of fire"

perhaps where, when, why and how might like to join the quest

die hard...dying hard? yeah...still a jungle of that going on...an ordinary act of dying well seems like a lucky miracle...perhaps the hardness depends on the habit...some habits seem to never die...and some only seem to die.

Composer...i doubt i could satisfy your questions the way you ask them...but i hear a genuine shout underneath.

if i may ask...in all your years of searching for people to come forward and satisfy your questions, have you ever looked into fields like hospice, chaplaincy, grief-counseling? Or found somewhere caregivers go for healing?

Nurses and doctors...monks and nuns...midwives and chaplains...most all the teachers are dying or dead...and most all the students are grey and white...a lotta talk about Love in the face of Oblivion.

wondering...how is your search filter doing?

does reading a book somehow meet the same criteria as an author stepping forward to answer you?

smells like sanity, Mikey...i wish you all the best. please keep keeping us updated as you can. i will certainly be following what you are doing from afar.

currently up to my elbows in sustainability, permaculture and vermiculture in the pacific nw...even got 4 local cafes to start redistributing their compostables to local lawn-to-garden experiments...one aim is to help relocalize some of our agriculture and medicine...and otherwise help redefine "dirt" and "waste" and such.

Rev 8:10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

but also...

...taking a macro view of the world as a body of bodies...this "accident" also seems like a sign that this global empire is in need of palliative care...as if generations of cynical reductionism, terror and anxiety, absurd over-objectification, and generations of drunken oil binges have finally eaten a hole in the lining of a very vital organ of earth...and so now Uncle Sam's skin is changing color fast...and denial is harder than ever to come by...and there is a sudden eerie hush from typically loud voices.

I pray the silence is due to another layer of the world is being jawdroppingly enlightened about some very important things...as time for choices dwindles.

Buddhists, Muslims & Christians wash the feet of the homeless this Easter

"We often have to cut socks off the feet of the homeless as their skin has almost grown into their socks", said Rev. Crews. "As I wash their feet, the homeless often tell me their life stories. It's a very moving occasion and it always deepens my relationship with them."

strange way to interpret scripture

I was at first led to believe this is a discussion forum?

You know, present a question, expect sensible legitimate evidence in support of answers?

Apparently not!

the quality of your questions may have a lot to do with your expectations not being met

demanding answers is a quintessential form of violent communication

hospitality is a wellspring of sound reason

then there are also those whom the blind men don't see ... who say "hey, it's an elephant!"

Composer's questions seem quite valid to me...a bit jagged...and blunted...but certainly an expression of the other edge of the sword.

...one that faith must deal with in order to become as wise as it claims to be...which involves actually resolving such ageless unresolvable kinds of paradox...something reason is also clearly unable to do on its own.

...the kind of wisdom where answers that don't abandon scripture or reason may be just as challenging as the original questions.

...

But beyond all the language...i cant help but assume that Composer's core values and needs are in common with everyone else here. And he has a story like everyone else...perhaps even a role.

Of course, the consequences of his strategies and conclusions are his to carry and/or share. And its hard not to notice the squelch in the feedback...and the splashy discordant mix being called "troll" by much of the rest of the mix.

"Trip, trap, trip, trap! " went the bridge.

when we find out the sin was pure all along...the form remains

wounds and scars become the flawless mistakes of fields of flowers and stars

the demon that was hiding in the shadow becomes an angel once the light of our attention has saturated the location

Here is a recent thread on the topic.

Seems kind of hard to take a Christian leader seriously who rejects the value of dreams, especially how soaking wet the Bible is with profound dream-related experiences.

Also, nightmares are the most important kind of dreams we can have.

imho...Our Gathering and Our Resurrection...not only NOT as Wierwille taught it...but perhaps even pointing in such a different direction as to be pointing in an opposing direction...away from PFAL.

If so, a few steps away from PFAL is not enough.

Ten steps from PFAL is not enough.

A hundred steps from PFAL is not enough.

So keep going if you must...but perhaps even better is to stop...and turn completely around.

Because wherever we are...it may be that the answers we seek are found in that which we avoid.

There is no way around the fire if we want back to Eden. This is a most difficult truth.

i honestly dont think it can be done that way, Steve (interpret solely from within)...not in a way that supports claims of interpretative authority based on things like history, logic and reason.

sure, one will come up with something, but even that doesnt match others who use the same method...or use the same lexicons and concordances and such. "Holy Spirit" inspired interpretations dont match.

nor can one avoid reading into it. the depth and degree of self-awareness required to fully bypass the vast background of social and cultural noise we use to interpret each and every word seems beyond human limits.

...

and...may i ask what you mean by "foreign meanings"?

is this ethnic, linguistic, or something else?

Are you saying that comparing religious texts will yield no valid insight into the Bible?

Or that non-canonical art and literature and history can yield no insight into the Bible?

...

clearly, there are some of the hottest edges of age-old conversations...so feel free to opt out if you are not game at this time. or take your time. whatever.

while i cant wholly agree with everything the folklorist says, some lines from the opening post seem worth examining...

The Bible is folklore, which doesn't mean it isn't true

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These questions and many others have worried Biblical scholars for centuries as they have tried to understand and rectify the multiple versions of stories in the ancient text.

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...the diversity in the Bible should be embraced as a central feature of the oral tradition from which it was generated.

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This doesn't mean the Bible isn't true, or that it isn't a sacred text...

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...the Bible is oral literature that has been written down, and the nature of oral literature is that there must be two or more versions of any story.

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...the New Testament was written 70 years after the death of Jesus - more than enough time for several different versions of the same story to have arisen. To try to determine which is the "true" version is probably not productive...

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People say this is a oral tradition, but then they proceed to search for one true variant," said Dundes. "In oral literature, there is no such thing.

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This is not meant to be disrespectful, but people should stop worrying about the discrepancies among the stories. They don't matter.

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Indeed, it would be surprising if there were not such variation, Dundes said, adding that "each of the four versions has its own integrity.

...

To a folklorist, it is utter folly to attempt to reconcile such diversity.

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...variations in the oral tradition were preserved in the Bible precisely because of its sacred nature.

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These two books represent efforts to apply folklore studies to biblical literature from a folklore specialist and a biblical scholar. They underscore the applicability of folklore theory and its power to give biblical texts social and historical settings.

for what its worth...

seems to me, that of the many many ways scripture is viewed, there are perhaps 3 broad categories...

- scripture is NOT a story, it is truer than science!

- scripture IS a story, therefore it is worthless!

- scripture IS story, and is worth A LOT as such!

imho, the third option is the most valid, historically, practically, and otherwise...and is most likely to lead to the end of this seemingly endless and circular enmity between faith and reason, and an authentic restoration of the judeo-christian heritage.

edited for personal reasons

I am hoping that more people would value in stages

amen brother. i cant help but think that this alone could go a long way to resolve a lot of suffering and confusion, not only in christianity, but in other religious and non-religious contexts. I would even go as far as to say it could go a long way to recover a lot of the original wisdom of the Judeo-Christian heritage, so that we replace minor adjustments with major transformation...and replace supernatural conceptualizations with practical living rites/rights of passage.

I bless you understood my words

because is written is hard for me at times

me too. and blessed you understand mine as well. i recall being refreshed by your first posts at the gsc, and how difficult it was for most to see the spirit beyond your words. am especially delighted that you are still with us...and have come so far in finding a voice for the choir inside of you.