lindyhopper

laleo- good point. I need to be more clear here.

I think there are definte signs that a women does not want to have sex other than saying "no".

Maybe I should scratch the second half of the statement. Although, I was thinking of it in light of the first half. I was trying to emphisize the intent of the person forcing themselves on the other and the confusion and inability of a person to always see what is going on when it is happening to them.

I guess I didn't do that very well. It was late, as it usually is for me here and I don't always say things the way I intend to. Sorry.

I wouldn[t have expected it, Abigail.

I too have been a bit of a mouse at times. I didn't always speak my mind in TWI either at least not the controversial side of it.

My problem is that somehow I let people talk over me. I don't think I speak softly in public situations but people have in the past and do still start talking just after I do and I usually stop talking whenthey do this.

Untill recently. I have been trying to just keep talking when people do it now. Most of the time these punks just keep talking louder and louder over me. Very impolite and very annoying.

I never understood why someone would feel the need to do this. I think they just want to here themselves talk.

Anyways, the other night my wife and I were talking to some catholic friends of ours about the existence of God and what not, and this started to happen a lot. Finally, I just yelled "What the FUCl

That got their attention and they didn't do it again all night. I don't think they will any time soon either.

It is nice to come here and finish a sentence and complete a thought here at GS. It also helps me figure things out that I am wondering about.

You just have to take that first leap. I used to be terrible at public speaking. Now I think I am pretty good. Especially when no one else is talking. ;)-->

Oldies- yet another one for you.

You said

quote:

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Lindyhopper,

I still have a problem with that word "rape". If you're talking about VPW administering those date rape drugs (which admittedly is still hard for me to believe) then you'd have to call it rape. No question about it. Other than that, I don't see it as rape, but more like sexual harassment. Does it matter? Well, sexual harassment conveys one idea, and rape conveys another. Rape conveys that you simply couldn't say no, and couldn't get up and walk out. But we've seen testimonies of women declining VPW's advances, so I know it was possible. But certainly please don't misunderstand me, its bad enough for me and others who respected VPW to now think that he had a very sleazy sexual problem.

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OK, here it is in plain English.

If it was not concentual sex, it was RAPE!

There is not really any room for grey areas here.

If someone refused him or got away from him, then they didn't have sex. Did they?

If someone was coersed, manipulated, or confused into haveing sex, it was rape.

IF these women couldn't, wouldn't, or didn't know how to say NO in their situation but DID NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH HIM, it was rape.

VPW was not just a rapist, but a serial rapist.

I know that sounds terrible.

It WAS and IS!

Your just going to have to get used to it.

What is the deal here!!!

This is not a doctrinal thread. Why the need to discuss semantics?

Was it just the several women here at CS that VPW had non-consentual sex with?

Was it only 10, 20 wommen?

Was it 100, 200?

Was it concentual with 10, 20 all but ten or twenty?

Lets not kid ourselves. This is not the point.

Would it matter if he only raped 20 and had consentual sex with the other 100? Would that make some of you feel better? How about if it were only a few head leaders that did the same thing? Would that make you feel better?

You think this nit-picking does not take something from these women?

Then why do we see these responces you get?

It does not matter if it was not every single sexual encounter.

Take a look at the thread the Profile of a Sexual Preditor.

The reality is that it was probably more like hundreds of women.

The man was a preditor. Lets not nit-pick how what I just said is not provable. But you know it is probably true.

I say you need to have more fun with this.

How about...

I can't, I'm bleeding from my a$$.

or

I'm sorry, I had scheduled gargling Listerine all night.

or

but the original Family Feud reruns are on tonight!

or

Isn't the Word over the World?

or

I'm sorry I just started a water ballet class they only meet on fellowdang nights.

or

We don't need to go. I've already witnessed to everyone.

or

I can't, I'm flying in tonight to be naked on the Howard Stern Show tomarrow.

or

I orry au ut au ong ov whe a uz icki enu udda ov a iv.

(I'm sorry I cut my young off while licking peanut butter off a knife)

Just a few you can use, free of charge.

Dot thank you for sharing. All this stuff ....es me off so much.

And all this happening right under my nose while growing up in the ministry.

OCD you are in rare form tonight my friend. Hope your day wasn't too bad. You crack me up.

Have fun "strumin' away like a rockstar on the ge-tar".

Ex I know this still must be hard to continue to go over this again and agin. I hope it helps you. The stories that I read like yours are so sickening.

WG- I would suggest, as I think Radar did, to look up some psychological studies done on rape victims. I have read some. You know, it is not just victims in twi and of VP that keep silent. Women who are raped sometimes never say a word.

I had something happen to me when I was very young and never told a soul until some "loving" leadership basically forced it out of me through fear and intimidation and my tears. I would have probably just never said a word about it to anyone, not even my parents. There are still very few people that I have told.

Do you think that these women or others like me are just so F'ed up in the head that they would make things up for some insane reason. Sure there are the minority that has done this in the courts.

For some sex is rarely even talked about. Why would it be easy to talk about an incounter that you are ashamed of.

You lose apart of yourself. It is "soul stealing" in a way. How do you expect someone in that condision to be so bold and confident to go to the authorities? He was the authority as Ex said. Would you expect a child to call the police on their father?

Is this helping at all?

I hope so.

It is not an easy subject. Especially for those that have been mistreated and taken advantage of and stolen from.

I hope that some of what people have said here helps.

OHMAGOD!!!

It is always about power. I agree with you Radar et al. ALWAYS! ALWAYS!!

People that rape or "coerce someone into having sex" (same thing) have serious mental issues. Power issues. Gender issues. Insecurity issues. It is more complex than being horny.

Are they "horny". I guess. Personally, I really don't like that term.

There is healthy attraction and unhealthy attraction. There are healthy sexual urges and unhealthy ones.

I have to go but... COME ON!!! oldies, WG

PLEASE!!!

There are far tooo many women that this happens to. 1 in 3?

With the women I've known and met it seems like even more than that. It is sick.

I have to go.

Too Long (can I call you that?)

Keep questioning is what I say.

Sure there are a lot of great principle that we learned and that work. That is only proof of sound principles. We should take what is good and learn and disgaurd the rest.

If God gave us this brain I think He would want us to use it. Even if it hurts to think about certain things.

But that's just me.

I like Ex's point of view even if I don't suscribe to all of it. Don't be afraid to question, get ....ed, get confused and then infused and then refuse to be fused.

I just learned that resentment and bitterness are not always bad words. It can be part of the healing process and it may be apart of life forever, but I agree, don't allow them to keep you from healing. I think I will have a little of both for the rest of my life. It makes me think about things I wouldn't otherwise.

Anyways, it sounds like your doing well. Keep questioning.

Thanks for your story.

Your the best.

That's still true.

at what, I don't know.

but it is still true.

The Adkins Diet...

Be careful. If you are prone to heart problems I would not suggest it.

I don't know all the details. Maybe I'll have my wife post.

I do know that exersice is key. Stay active and the wieght training even in lite doses works as rottie has said.

Finding the time to exersice is tough at times I know.

Maybe try dancing, like swing or something. Believe it or not it builds stamina and is a serious aerobic workout, and it is fun.

Good luck all and have fun!

My name says it all.

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing! Do-wop-do-wha...

Dancing is a beautiful thing.

Peruser you shag?

We do some of that too.

Shag is a very fun dance.

To those men that don't like to dance I say, loosen up and don't worry about how you look. Once you do that it becomes a great feeling of freedom.

I used to be so scared to dance. Then I started swinging and thought I could fake it. I quickly realised that I didn't know how to lead. Once I learned how to lead I saw the light.

The beauty of dance (partner dancing) is not just how cool it looks but its the communication, the laguage of the dance. Its the connection you make with the other person. When you get to that point you can begin to express your selves in your dance (as a couple).

My wife and i say 'those that dance together stay together'. That may not be true, but it was something that brought us close together.

Peruser- I just saw your profile. Do you live in northern Virginia? Do you dance in DC? That is where I met my wife, at a Glen Echo dance.

Maybe I'll email you if that is OK.

Who have you learned shag from?

Dance on!

I think Walker was joking, Yes?

Well either way I laughed at it.

I think I agree with the other hopper. I think some were a little harsh, even though you made good points. We make mistakes. Sometimes sh1t happens, sometimes we eat sh1t, sometimes we are full of sh1t, sometimes we take sh1ts while other times we want to take sh1ts but we can't. It's a hard knocks life.

When I left the ministry I had a long talk with my parents. My mom said "you know some people try and raise their kids in the 'school of hard knocks', while others try and shield their kids from getting knocked around"(refering to herself). I told her the truth is you get knocked either way and the only thing that matters is how you deal with it.

quote:

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I am condmening myself in my stupd head that I am being attacked becasue I left the ministry. But then if I were in the ministry, the same thing would have happened and I would say I was being attacked because I'm doing the Word. What is it? The Way ministry has an explanation to fit everything that fits THEIR *****NG logic!

I know that I'm not being punished for leaving twi. I know it was the absolutely best decision I have made in years. I chalk it up to the adversary is an *******. If you love God, he tries to get his jabds in to make your life difficult.

---

seems like you are thinking farely well, except for that last part. IMHO. And not in referring to this specific situation. But still...

Waybrain?

I don't know.

When I was in I was trained to blame myself much more than the devil. I had a choice, he had no choice, it was his nature.

I still blame myself for my mistakes, just not as hard as I did while in twi. I know it was just a mistake and not opening some "door for the adversary". When I left, some sh1t happened to me as well. But I knew it wasn't satan, I was more concerned about my family finding out and confirming their absolute rightness. I knew they were wrong and didn't want to give them a bone.

Anywho. Sounds like your doing OK. Hear are osme funny stories.

We got married in CO. We live on the east coast. We drove back and forth seceral times planning the wedding. Yes, drove it was fun, and cheap.

So on the way out for the wedding we had 27 hours to get to CO on Fri before the office where we needed to P/U the license closed, and return the one way rental car and only get charged for 1 day.

We picked up the van from the airport. On the way home to load it the break light went on. (not good right before a 2000 ml trip) So we loaded it and were going to return it and reload and from the airport. But I locke the keys in the car. It took the locksmith forever to get their. We returned it reloaded in another van and went on our way several hrs later than planned. When we reached CO, we had picked out the first office in the state to stop at but it was no longer there. We made some calls and when to another one and made it there 15 min before they closed. They bumped us to the head of the line and we still returned the van on time and ended up getting a MINI for our traveling in CO. Yes, everything in the mini-van fit in the mini couper.

Moral of the story?

Yes there will be bumps in the road. Just be calm, persivere, and have fun. And always remember that you can usually make up for the bumps by going 95 ml/hr thru Kansas. :D-->

OK just one story for now.

mike,

quote:

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Gamiel was semi-wong.

---

i'm sorry, but that typo is too funny. :D-->

I like to think I'm more wong than anything, but that's just the testosterone talking.

you are a good mushroom. -->

thinking about being in makes me want to take a sh..

Or is that dangtake?

Fungus among us?

I don't know I like to think of myself as a "fun-guy".

ba-dum-bum

Thank you I'm here all night.

I too can confirm that Chris was in AZ and out. I don't know where she is now though, wish I did.

Hope John follows suit someday. and the rest of the fam. of course, but I knew those two the best.

I really miss them.

"Is your philosophy best said on a bumper-sticker?"

I have no idea wht the true meaning is.

I've seen Rocky Horror but not Tommy.

I think it is all just a ploy to allow people to cross-dress and throw popcorn and soda at the movie screen. :D-->

That and that bikers are eeeeeevil.

OR are they?

I think the answer to all your qwestions are in the greatest movie of all time.

biker1:

"I say we kill him."

group:

"YEAH!"

Biker2:

"I say we hang him....then we kill him!"

"YEAH!"

"I say we skin im' then we tatoo im'... then we hang im'.. and then we kill him!"

"YEAH!!!"

biker lady:

"I say you give him to me first."

bikers:

"YEEEAAAAAHHH!"

("Pee Wee's Big Adventure")

sorry I'm a child of the eighties.

Pee Wee then as a last request does his own version of "break" dancing to the toon of "Taquila". The bikers befriend him, give him a bike and send him on his way. Pee Wee imediatley rides off into a bilboard and almost dies.

The moral?

Oh, I think it is very obvious.

Moral:

In the presence of bikers....

If you act like a gay child dressed like a white member of the Nation of Isalam while dancing in platform shoes and breaking things, you become a "brother" to them and they give you things. Also, nobody dies.

you only nearly die.

Any questions?

Watch the movie, you'll see the light. ;)-->

Lindy

Welcome Red!

It is nice to see yet another youngster out and about and here at GS.

Your story made me crindge just reading it and thinking about the BS I too put up with.

It really was "micro-management". They had a problem with my cell division. :)--> My RNA wasn't believing hard enough. I was digesting my food to quickly. My brain cells weren't renewing my mind often enough. :D-->

A little science humor for you.

I am glad you are out. I had some very similar situations as did many people here. I too have innie family members. And they have lerned to accept me as well. That feels good. It will feel better when they're out.

Anyways, thanks for sharing.

Martinpuke, WaferNot?

Did you eat the same leftovers I did? :P-->

Is the hate they cause you your final destination?

It's just gonna make you hate your own reflection.

You try to endure it

But you know you gotta give in to it

Tell me

Why such a cheap thing always hides the reeeaaalll

Thing?

Too long?

Oh well

It's Mark Eitsel

Wayfer Not!-

I think your right. All I can say is that my parents were very Cool. ;)--> I don't know why I type in code here sometimes.

I think that would have been somewhere in the middle of TX. Yee Ha! Thanks for saying Hi.

Megan-

I remember you and your mom. I believe our moms were good friends at one point. It broke my mom's heart when she heard that your mom left the ministry. It will probably break your mom's to know mine is still in. That is the lifestyle of the way...

Are you an actress now or do you just like that quote?

Actually, Ex, I didn't figure that out untill I just read your post.

I guess that means "I" didn't really figure it out, did I?

Oh well,

Thanks

OCD, I remember that name and the band, I think.

I remember quite a few teens that were into Suicidal Tendencies. ( A band, for those of you that don't know)

"All I wanted was a Pepsi...."

I is interesting to think about the music that I or others were into while in twi as teenagers.

another quote from that song..

"My best interests? How do you know what is in my best interest?"

Interesting indeed.

Thank you, Pavlov's God, for your post as well. Great name. AARF! I think I know who you are. I'll try to email you some time soon. I think I may have seen you at a single's advance once, post corps for you.

Ex, I'm in my late twenties. Just a youngster.

Insurgent- I feel for you and I hope everything works out for you and your family.

...As you can see the conductor has put on the "fasten your seatbelts" sign. please remain seated untill we have completely removed Hope from the tracks.

Thank you :)-->

Simon-

I also thought about that. I wrote a little about that in "My story". Here it is..

quote:

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If you took a five year old and told him to more or less make up his own laguage and practise it in your head everyday and out loud in meetigs 2 or 3 times a week for twenty years how do you think hw would do? How authentic do you think it would sound? Now throw into the mix that this person hears others do it a couple of times a week all their life. Lets not forget the Inter. Cl. and those practise sessions. quiet. louder. faster. now start with the letter "A". Did any of you do that? A-Z in your tounge? If I move my mouth, tounge, lips throat, etc. and God give me the words. How do I determine to start with the letter S? and If I determine what let I start with how am I not determining the rest of the sounds? How do I know that the tounge supposedly of men or of angles had the sound "ch"? I thought maybe since I grew up with it maybe it was different for others. Maybe it was just second nature for me. Then I started to notice that some in fellowdang some old grads some new grads would say the same. phase over and over again the only way they changed was to "practise more" or to decide to have a versitile tounge.

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I don't mean to go off topic, but I don't think I am. I haven't totally closed the door on SIT or a lot of things. It is obviously in the Bible. But, if that was a falacy then it was a major one.