IamSteve

bliss, No I am not a full preterist. I do believe that evil in all its forms will be completely destroyed at the final ressurrection and judgement. Rev 20:10 - 15. I am still unclear about Rev 21. Some believe that Rev 21 returns to 70 A.D.and the new heavens and earth are spiritual. In other words, in post 70 A.D earth... God is dealing with man in a different way. It's the new heavens and earth of the new covenant. I have also considered a literal new heavens and earth being created. As far as the rapture/gathering together... I believe that it was a literal catching up of the 1st century christians who stuck with Christ through total hell on earth from the persecution they endured. Also known as the martyrs. Satan was literally trying to kill every one of them through the antichrist(possibly Nero) and seed of satan jews. Christians have not quite endured that level of hostility since. This appears to be the 1st ressurrection mentioned in Rev. 20:5. The dead in Christ are raised and caught up with the ones still alive. Not sure if this includes the old testament believers. This web site has an interesting perspective: http://www.preteristviewpoint.com/id5.html I think these people are full preterists which I am not, however, I agree with their explanation of a literal catching up of the 1st century saints.

Howdy Folks, I'm sure some of you read my reply to the "Prophets of Doom" thread in the About the Way section. I'm sure most of you think I've lost my mind LOL. I now regret posting that reply in that particular thread because of the the way it was written. I was typing fast and tried to put a lot of info in a few paragraphs. To summarize, the thread was about end of the world predictions and Bible prophecy and the book of Revelation. I replied that I'm no longer a futurist regarding the book of Revelation except for the very tail end (Rev 20:7 on). I also believe that the gathering together, also known as the rapture, took place between 66-70 A.D. I know that is a wild statement to say the least. It took me 2 years of reading to believe it. To give you a little background... I became intensely interested in Bible prophecy in 1989 after seeing a popular prophecy teacher live. This was shortly after I left TWI and finally felt free to read books and attend seminars ,sermons, etc by Christian ministers and teachers other than TWI clergy. Even as a kid I had a fascination with Revelation but TWI only covered it superficially. That was probably a good thing. Anyway I read anything I could get my hands on. I bought books by authors such as Hal Lindsey, Grant Jeffrey, Perry Stone, Plain Truth magazine, Prophecy in the News and many others. Looking back, it was like a hobby. As the years went by my interest in Bible prophecy gradually waned. I occasionally bought a prophecy book or watched a program on Christian TV if it piqued my interest. Then around 2004 I was playing an elaborate war game for the computer based on the board game Risk. Without getting into too much detail, the game's setting is during Roman times 273BC to 14AD. and multiple factions fight each other just as it occurred in actual history. While playing this game I became interested in secular 1st century history and the Roman Empire. So I did a lot of internet searches concerning 1st century history and I stumbled across a web site about Preterism(that most of Bible prophecy was fulfilled by 70 A.D.). My initial reaction was to laugh and say "bs". But I read further and the author of the web site pointed out a few verses in Revelation that I had read before but never read them in the proper context or considered that the audience was 1st century Christians. For example: Rev 1:1,2,3. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." Does "shortly come to pass" and "the time is at hand" mean 2000+ years? Here is another one the web site mentioned: In Matt 24 Jesus was telling the disciples about end time events such as the destruction of the temple, the tribulation and the gathering of the elect among other things. Then he says in Matt 24:34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." It was different verses such as these in light of 1st century history that compelled me to look more deeply into this theory. The Bible is like a huge puzzle. Even VPW used to say it should fit like a hand in a glove right? After reading Matt 24 without my blinders on I realized that the destruction of Jerusalem corresponds with the great tribulation. That happened in 70 A.D. Read your history. There were 4 sieges by the Roman army which started in the reign of Nero, and lasted til the government of Vespasian, whose son Titus destroyed Jerusalem. Some of the symbolic imagery in Revelation corresponds to the devastation that these sieges caused. There is a lot more to get into but I need some sleep right now. To be continued....

As time went on I noticed that the TWI ministry had become focused on nothing but TWI ministry. God seemed to go out the window. It was all about the organization. That became our god. I'm sure that is a problem with other ministries as well.

I almost didn't reply to this thread but decided this may be the right time to try to convince you that all we have been taught in TWI concerning prophecy and Revelation has been wrong. Actually 99% of Christianity today is wrong concerning Revelation. Most of you will think what I'm about to show you is the craziest thing you have ever heard. I thought the same thing when I 1st started reading about an alternative view of Revelation. It took me 2 years of study to become convinced of this alternative view. I hope you do not just blow this off as some wacked out theory. OK people are you ready to read something shocking? The gathering together/rapture has already happened! It happened in 70 A.D. I'm actually laughing as I'm typing this because I know to most of you this will seem like the most wacked-out crazy thing anyone could say regarding prophecy. However it is true regardless. The book of Revelation has already taken place except for the Satan being released to deceive the nations again Rev 20:7, battle of Gog and Magog Rev 20:8, the final judgement Rev 20:12, and new heavens and earth Rev21.We are now in the 1000 year reign of Christ. A figurative 1000 years not literal. It just means a very long period of time when Christ is reigning from his heavenly throne. This guy thinks we are currently in the period when satan has been released after the 1000 years are finished: http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPre...ncan_pp_01.html The judgments in Revelation which is the wrath of God are concerning judgments on the land of Israel and most likely took place between 66-70 A.D. culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple (Matt 24:2). These judgments were for rejection of Christ, acceptance of Roman paganism such as emperor worship(image of the beast), persecution of Christians, and a whole slew of other things. What really got me thinking that the Preterists are correct are a handful of verses such as Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. Notice the phrase "which must shortly come to pass". Matt 24: 1,2,3 which describes the destruction of Jerusalem and the coming of Christ/gathering together. It happens at the same time. Matt 24:34 "this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled". This was referring to that generation not some future generation. Here's another one: Luke 21:20-22 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. That happened in 70 A.D. Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. Notice the phrase "the time is at hand". I have become what is known as a partial preterist. I believe we are now in the millennial reign of Jesus Christ and may be in the time when Satan has been released(could be figurative in the sense that Christianity is rejected en mass and paganism becomes dominate). The next big event would be Gog and Magog battle, whatever that means, but it is clear the enemies of Christ surround the "camp of the saints." At some point during this time God says " that's all folks" and He destroys the enemies of Christ, then the final judgment(2nd resurrection) and finally a new heavens and earth are created. There is a lot more to get into but I don't have the time right now. Here is one of the best web sites for preterist study: http://www.preteristarchive.com/ here is another interesting site: http://www.preteristviewpoint.com/id16.html Btw, The futurist perspective of Revelation, that Revelation will take place in the future, didn't exist in Christianity until the early 1800s and was the result of a so-called "vision" by a British girl.

Hello everyone, It has been years since I have posted but recently something I believe is important for all of us to understand has been made very clear in my mind which was a little hazy before. I know many Ex Wayers already realize this. The issue I'm referring to is the sin of idolatry which the vast majority of us who were involved in TWI, including me, were guilty of. I know this may seem like a crazy statement but after analyzing this in my mind for hours I'm convinced that the vast majority of us were truly guilty of idolatry during our time in TWI. I'm sure this subject has been discussed in previous posts but I haven't personally read them. It was discussed briefly in an interview with Dr. Juedes I believe. I also believe this may have been the most serious problem that we were dealing with during our time in TWI, without us even realizing it. "Bigger than the sex/adultry problem" you ask? I think so. The sex problems didn't involve 99.9% of us unlike this idolatry situation. The mistake we collectively made was to turn the organization called The Way International into our god. It definitely wasn't intended by us rank and file followers at least at the moment we joined TWI, but in time we gradually became servants to the organization and its leaders. God became secondary. Here is an interesting question for those still involved: Is The Way Jesus Christ or is The Way the organization called The Way International based in New Knoxville, OH?