jkboehme

Per satori001:

I think there's a point of no return, after which you are trapped by your commitment to the lie.

Not that you think it's a lie. You don't. Just the opposite. You don't see it clearly, but you really, really believe it's true.

So when that lie (Vic Wierwille's false doctrines, for instance) becomes the exalted TRUTH, anything which contradicts it must be a lie. And if the circumstances of your life contradict exalted TRUTH, then your life is a lie.

What does that mean?

I don't know, but it's depressing.

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Recall from the Cult thread:

Douglas Hyde wrote a book which was first published in 1966 entitled, Dedication and Leadership. Hyde had grown up as a Roman Catholic, converted to communism in his idealistic adolescence, and then as a mature man returned to Roman Catholicism. {Oldies, are you reading this very closely?} One central premise of the book is that the Christian churches should use the thought reforming techniques (such as ‘struggle groups’ and the mobilization of peer pressure) of the communists, not to convert Christians to communism, but to “get” [? extort] the maximum productive work [? slave labor] out of Christian believers and workers, who appeared all too smug, complacent, and self-satisfied in Hydes’s opinion [and VPW’s.]

Following are some of the totalitarian methods and strategies utilized by VPW/LCM/TWI that Doug Hyde espoused. I will paraphrase Hyde and insert corresponding TWI practices where comparable to totalitarian techniques.

2) The most distinguishing mark of the Communists [TWI rank & file member] is their [manipulated, exploited] idealism, their zeal, commitment/dedication, devotion to their cause and willingness to make phenomenal personal sacrifices [TWI has numerous programs that “assisted” one in “advancing” in learning to be so supposedly “self-less”]. The Communists [TWI] have evolved their “own means” [thought reform, packaged persuasion, struggle groups] by which they are able to “evoke” [pavlovian subliminally conditioned responses; post-hypnotic suggestion; various aspects of social peer pressure] an exceptional degree of [manipulated] commitment/dedication [TWI culttically-induced pseudo-self & pseudo-identiy, essentially Waybots with a bad case of waybrain]. Both Communists and TWI utilize a step by step process.

3) The majority of those persons who join the Communist Party [TWI] are young. The average joining age tends to be between fifteen and twenty-five [see the appendices in the book, Snapping; very similar demographics are noted for TWI followers]. Youth is a period noted to be characterized by a profound degree of idealism. The Communists [TWI] recruit these [college aged] young people by [manipulatively] appealing to their idealism and harnessing [captivating, enslaving] it to their “cause” [greedy, lustful, worldly self-interests of the top TWI leadership] with the end result of a tremendous pro-Communist [pro-TWI] effect [yet unequivocally personally self-defeating for the individual adherent]; it is a most “dynamic” thing. VPW was very fond of the word, “dynamic.”

6) Like attracts like. Those who are intrigued or attracted by the commitment/dedication they see within the Communist [TWI] “movement” will themselves be “possessed” of a latent idealism, a capacity for commitment/dedication. This commitment/dedication perpetuates itself, it essentially grows its own legs. It sets the tone and pace of the “movement” as a whole. This being so, the movement can make huge demands upon its adherents, knowing that the “correct [conditioned] response” will come. If the majority of the members, from the top leaders on down, are characterized by their “single-minded” commitment/devotion to the “cause,” and it is quite clear that the majority of genuinely committed/dedicated, average adherents are “giving” [via guilt and fear manipulation] until it hurts, putting in their money, time, thought, talents, and if necessary, life itself, then this living example of commitment/dedication, and loyalty is “inspiring” to potential adherents, who have never experienced the startling appeal of being totalitarian, deployable [TWI] agents.

Without this [manipulated] magnitude of commitment/dedication, the Communists [TWI] would not be prepared to accept the constraining confines of the organizational culture, the discipline, the never ending, bone wearying ‘Marxist education’ [TWI classes, seminars, special advanced classes, etc], the incessant appeals [via guilt and fear motivation] for ever more pro-Communist [pro-TWI] actions and behaviors [on a personal level: renewed mind activities, glossolalia; On an organizational level: the so-called outreach/witnessing of the {TWI-defined} ‘Word,’ attending Household Fellowship meetings many times per week, attending national level TWI meetings such as Advanced Classed, Special Advanced Classes, Word in Business and Profession Conferences, etc].

Communism [TWI] we are told, is the great enemy of the individual’s true historical self and self-image. Under Communism [TWI], in practice, the individual’s own true historical personality is to be suppressed [the creation of a new synthetic pseudo-identity, whether Communist-defined or TWI cult-defined]. Philosophically this is assuredly true.

But in practice, whilst the Communist [TWI] “movement” is still only as yet on the path to total world Communism [equivalent to TWI’s all encompassing goal of the prevailing of the (TWI-defined) ‘Word’ over the inhabited world], and therefore they must diligently and tirelessly work through a committed/dedicated minority of Communist [TWI] adherents, and “use” [manipulate, exploit] each adherent to the uttermost [TWI spoke in terms of “…one doing one’s utmost for His Highest (i.e., TWI-defined ‘God’ or was it the adoration, veneration, and worship of “THE Man of God,” whether VPW or LCM)], it shows a quite exceptional “concern” [avaricious, organizational self-interest] for “drawing out the potentialities” [terrifying the captivated person into outlandish displays of pro-Communist or pro-TWI feigned bravado] of every individual who comes within its “discipline” [organizational coordinated network of programs of intense, exploitative indoctrination].

The “unfolding and growth” [response to packaged persuasion] of the “personality” [pseudo-personality post thought reform] of the recruit to Communism [TWI] is frequently ‘spectacular,’ for Communism [TWI] sets out to “create” [via thought reform] men of [into] a special mould, a consummately ‘formidable person” [now externally validated via an entity of an unconscionable, external locus of control]. TWI often repeated, “…all ‘learning’ must come from outside of the individual-seeking…” (See the PFAL book and syllabus and the WAP syllabus). Communists [TWI] fully expect and demand of their disciple-adherents to be so fanatically committed/dedicated so as to risk worldly victimization, to be prepared to lose his means of livelihood, to be black-listed by every employer in his particular industry, and to even see his own standard of life and that of his loved ones go down to poverty, illness, and death, if “need” be.

Sacrifice, commitment/dedication, and zeal are not enough in themselves. These [manipulated] “attributes” are definitely important, but they are only a starting point. These [exploited] “qualities” are what “helps” [via response to his intense, indoctrinating, thought reform] to “make” a person persist as an aggressive, active member; these attributes “ensure” [by coercive persuasion] that when the indoctrinated individual is “made and promoted” into leadership, that he continues to lead for the Communist [TWI] “cause” and not for himself.

10) Individual adherents of the Communist Party [TWI] are “brought to believe” [via a systematic, coordinated program of psychological and social manipulation] that collectively they and others like them can ‘change the world’ in their very lifetime [Communist phrase coined by Karl Marx’s friend and collaborator, Frederick Engels; TWI phrase by VP Wierwille, “…the Way Ministry needs to turn the world upside down, which really means to turn it right-side up, because it was ‘kittywampas’ to start with…;”

VPW & LCM would say that Way Corps leadership in top positions are men & women of a ‘ special mould.’ TWI everywhere sets out to ‘produce’ [indoctrinate] men & women of this so-called special mould. To a large degree, an observer of the TWI cultic scene can see that TWI frequently succeeds in this covert, exploitative endeavor to the detriment of many rank & file adherents.

The man or woman [‘Waybot’] molded by TWI, the new 'leader,' is a formidable man indeed. He is cast in the opposite mould to the traditional 'New Man in Christ,' because TWI’s ‘christ’ is a recycled hybridized pagan god, with characteristics of Osirus, Dionysis, Mithra, Adonis, Pan, Hermes, & other demigods.

Even though a person’s original motivation, upon being deceived into joining TWI, may have been altruistic, even though this person retains much of his or her initial youthful idealism and sense of oneness with suffering humanity in the valley of human need, still, because that person has been indoctrinated to adhere to TWI’s contaminated pseudo-spiritual deeds, that person’s life tends to become contaminated with TWI's oppresive mindset. Therefore the mould into which the TWI leader is pressed is one that ultimately debases him or her as a person.

Part of the tragedy of TWI is that it takes good men & women, with good intentions, and exploitatively uses & abuses them for the corrupt cause of fallacious pseudo-spiritual practices. The tragic consequence of these TWI enforced practices is that the idealistic leaders, who join or adhere to TWI, set out to be the saviours of humanity and become instead men’s jailers.

TWI stands condemned, not only for the problems it has caused the societies of the USA and other nations around the world, but also for the phenomenal psychological damages it has caused in the non-consenting, individual TWI members themselves. The WAY “MINISTRY” in actuality is nothing more than a cultic racketeering scam with a thin veneer of Hermitically oriented, ‘white-washed’ & ‘ redefined’ biblical terms.

NO genuine, lasting virtue has come about due to the existence of TWI. It did in fact between ~1967 to ~1972 attract some people who had a desire to serve God, but a critical mass of these people had been witnessed to by non-TWI people such as Jimmy Doop, Steve Heefner, Ted Wise, & Lonnie Frisbee.

These movements were later invaded by avaricious power-hungry Wierwille. Wierwille-TWI essentially stole these people from those simple, grassroots ministries. In significant part due to the presence of Doop, Heefner, Wise, Frisbee & their followers, as well as the exuberance of their unmistakable presence, many of the PFAL classes of this time period generated a great excitement, more so in spite of Wierwille than due to him & to his supposed original “research” (but in actuality it was almost entirely plagiarized).

Certain honest individuals, comprised of the Doop/Heefner/Wise/Frisbee derivatives, as well as many who became involved directly by Wierwille’s PFAL series, were the pure-hearted people in our local areas that created the positive environment that appealed to the transient vulnerabilities of so many of us.

Then TWI, primarily via Wierwille & later Martindale, those despicable wolves in sheep’s clothing, surreptitiously ‘ taught & trained’ us by way of various exploitative programs {via VPW's PFAL series, the WOW program, the Fellowlaborers’ program, the Way Corps & College Division programs, LCM's WAP series, TWI-II, & many other scenarios} which were ALL disguised TWI indoctrination. The proceeds & benefits of these clandestine programs & MLM operations went not to the TWI-claimed beneficiaries, the rank-and-file affiliates of TWI, but rather went to the TWI Board of Trustees & other high level TWI leadership for their own selfish interests.

TWI ‘redefined’ & hence contaminated the supposed 'grace of God' as a hook of vulnerability on the front side, only to later bait & switch it to oppressive hyper-legalism replete with TWI-exit phobia on the far side of this despicable victimization. This oppressive legalism (the supposed ‘teeth’ Wierwille began speaking of around 1967 to 1972) was originally most visible in the Way Corps in the 1970’s, but after the 1989 LCM loyalty demand, & in/after the Fall of 1995, when LCM began his ‘mark & avoid’- enforced extreme obedience demands (among many other abusive & harmful practices), the end result for those of us who in good faith commitment & dedication held out to the bitter end, is that we have essentially nothing to show for our TWI servitude except for the psychological & emotional wounds (damages) with which TWI has so disgracefully left us.

[To my way of thinking, this also explains in part VPW's tendency to be drawn to the Hermetic and Gnostic writings of the spiritually eclectic E.W. Kenyon, from which a significant portion of the underlying TWI doctrinal positions are taken. Also further explaining VPW's proclivity for Arianism and Nestorianism (and therefore the fascination with Turkish LAMSA, and ultimately the publication of Jesus Christ is Not God), in the late 300's CE, an Arian/Nestorian monk of Byzantine eastern Christianity, ULFILAS, evangelized the Teutonic tribes of present day Germany. He taught Arian/Nestorian Christianity to the barbaric Gothic tribes of Germany, who readily accepted this, in part due to the fact that it fit with their Gothic concepts of the pagan godhead.]

“…it is the moral choices and evaluations that we make in everyday practical living that furnish the data on which ethicists construct theories and against which they finally test them. If ethicists are deficient in moral insight or have warped insights, it seems inevitable that, as a result, their theories will wander from the truth.”

For that very reason --that a person with no moral compass will not lead anyone to the truth, but eventually lead to a warped ethical basis for life-- hanging on to the teachings of Victor Paul Wierwille is not "holding to the good." It is clinging to the vestiges of a man without a moral compass.

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Also, it a matter of clinging to VPW's plagiarized Hermetic esotericism and Gnostic dualism that is so prevalent in TWI teaching. It is not a matter of there being anything intrinsically 'wrong' about these belief systems, because there are not. The issue is that VPW lied about his sources and tried to present a Biblically veneered esotericism and gnosticism as "the 'Word' as it has not been known since the first century..."

Per jardinero (from the Cognitive Dissonance thread):

For example, Marian Keech was the leader of a UFO cult in the 1950s. She claimed to get messages from extraterrestrials, known as The Guardians, through automatic writing. Like the Heaven's Gate folks forty years later, Keech and her followers, known as The Seekers or The Brotherhood of the Seven Rays, were waiting to be picked up by flying saucers. In Keech's prophecy, her group of eleven was to be saved just before the earth was to be destroyed by a massive flood on December 21, 1954. When it became evident that there would be no flood and the Guardians weren't stopping by to pick them up, Keech became elated. She said she'd just received a telepathic message from the Guardians saying that her group of believers had spread so much light with their unflagging faith that God had spared the world from the cataclysm (Levine 2003: 206).

More important, the Seekers didn't abandon her. Most became more devoted after the failed prophecy. (Only two left the cult when the world didn't end.) "Most disciples not only stayed but, having made that decision, were now even more convinced than before that Keech had been right all along....Being wrong turned them into true believers (ibid.)." Some people will go to bizarre lengths to avoid inconsistency between their cherished beliefs and the facts. But why do people interpret the same evidence in contrary ways?

The Seekers would not have waited for the flying saucer if they thought it might not come. So, when it didn't come, one would think that a competent thinker would have seen this as falsifying Keech's claim that it would come. However, the incompetent thinkers were rendered incompetent by their devotion to Keech. Their belief that a flying saucer would pick them up was based on faith, not evidence. Likewise, their belief that the failure of the prophesy shouldn't count against their belief was another act of faith. With this kind of irrational thinking, it may seem pointless to produce evidence to try to persuade people of the error of their ways. Their belief is not based on evidence, but on devotion to a person. That devotion can be so great that even the most despicable behavior by one's prophet can be rationalized. There are many examples of people so devoted to another that they will rationalize or ignore extreme mental and physical abuse by their cult leader (or spouse or boyfriend). If the basis for a person's belief is irrational faith grounded in devotion to a powerful personality, then the only option that person has when confronted with evidence that should undermine her faith would seem to be to continue to be irrational, unless her faith was not that strong to begin with. The interesting question, then, is not about cognitive dissonance but about faith. What was it about Keech that led some people to have faith in her and what was it about those people that made them vulnerable to Keech? And what was different about the two who left the cult?

"Research shows that three characteristics are related to persuasiveness: perceived authority, honesty, and likeability" (ibid. 31). Furthermore, if a person is physically attractive, we tend to like that person and the more we like a person the more we tend to trust him or her (ibid. 57). Research also show that "people are perceived as more credible when they make eye contact and speak with confidence, no matter what they have to say" (ibid. 33).

According to Robert Levine, "studies have uncovered surprisingly little commonality in the type of personality that joins cults: there's no single cult-prone personality type" (ibid. 144). This fact surprised Levine. When he began his investigation of cults he "shared the common stereotype that most joiners were psychological misfits or religious fanatics" (ibid. 81). What he found instead was that many cult members are attracted to what appears to be a loving community. "One of the ironies of cults is that the craziest groups are often composed of the most caring people (ibid. 83)." Levine says of cult leader Jim Jones that he was "a supersalesman who exerted most every rule of persuasion" (ibid. 213). He had authority, perceived honesty, and likeability. It is likely the same could be said of Marian Keech. It also seems likely that many cult followers have found a surrogate family and a surrogate mother or father or both in the cult leader.

It should also be remembered that in most cases people have not arrived at their irrational beliefs overnight. They have come to them over a period of time with gradually escalated commitments (ibid. chapter 7). Nobody would join a cult if the pitch were: "Follow me. Drink this poisoned-but-flavored water and commit suicide." Yet, not everybody in the cult drank the poison and two of Keech's followers quit the cult when the prophecy failed. How were they different from the others? The explanation seems simple: their faith in their leader was weak. According to Festinger, the two who left Keech--Kurt Freund and Arthur Bergen--were lightly committed to begin with (Festinger 1956: 208).

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Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance goes a long way towards explaining why VPW included a chapter in the Blue Book on "The Synchroized Confession." It also goes a long way in explaining why VPW/TWI chose to use this technique of exploitative mental manipulation in its coordinated programs of psycho-social covert packaged persuasion.

As taught in LCM's WAP Advanced Class [and implied in VPW's AC], the synchronized confession is incorporated into 'believing images of victory,' in order to efficaciously operate the HERMETIC ALCHEMICAL 'law of believing.' One needed to operate the 'high octane' manifestation/emanation of [the law of] believing' in order 'to bring to pass the impossible' at one's command, demonstrating the TWI promoted DUALISM of the supremacy of 'holy spirit' manifested power with impact, emulating [rather than worshipping] Jesus via our gnosis of TWI Gnostic 'truths,' as opposed to the Satanically contaminated and manipulated world in which we live.

In order for the [TWI-styled] 'Word' to become "living and real," one must: (1) Think (cogitate) the 'Word;' (2) speak the 'Word;' &, (3) ACT on the 'Word.' In the constricting confines of the Wayworld milieu, whether at a local Twig/HF, or in-residence at a 'Root Locale,' or especially on a day-to-day basis in one's 'own' mind [now a manifestation of the synthetic pseudo-self], one's mental state would become progressively uncomfortable & tense unless one moved towards a synchronization of one's cognitions/feelings/confessions/actions. This purposefully induced psychological pain was part of the design of TWI's thought reform program.

I would say for may ex-twi, there was no conscious 'turning off of the brain.' For these folks, the 'waybrain' induction process was a matter of non-consented covert packaged persuasion of which they were unaware. They were strategically baited with a hook of apparent grace, then purposefully switched to control via fear and legalism. Their recruitment was a con to a scam 'ministry.' Any significant good that came about was due to the pure hearts & compassion of the rank & file non-insiders, who have pure motives.

Hang in there, mex, hopefully by the end of the thread it will all come together & fit very well (but not like a hand in a glove)!!!

If my dusty memory serves me correctly, Bullinger in his Greek-English lexicon defines agape as unconditional favorable regard, i.e., unconditonal love.

Clay,

You are correct. And by the way, thanks for giving me the benefit the (ubiquitous and ambient) doubt swirling around gsc regarding this apparently scary & 'taboo' topic. I have absolutely no intention to hurt or harm.

What I am trying to compose in the threads is a distillation of my reading over the past several years after having left TWI.

My first concern upon leaving was, "How in the world did VPW beguile, seduce, deceive, & scam me/us so badly that I didn't even realize that the non-consented covert packaged persuasion of thought reform was happening?" The distillation of that reading is in my two threads, Snapping & Cults.

My next concern, which has been far more difficult to unravel, was, "Where in the world did VPW find all of this bizzare material, and how did he camoflage it so well that we thought it was purely Biblical?" This thread is the redux of that reading.

I am certainly thrilled if this thread is of benefit to anyone here at gsc. I have had a handful of PMs from various gscers who are very thankful for this topic. This thread, due to its depth, may be too painful for some folks to handle.

Keep in mind that I have had several years to be weep, become enraged, melancholic, & to slowly digest this disturbing information. Therefore, for those who find it troubling, I might suggest reading it in small amounts, then taking several days or weeks, perhaps along with your own reading, before returning to this thread.

I do not mean this is a disparaging way, but this thread is not for the faint of heart. It is for those who want to know that they know that they know [who once thought that they knew that they knew that they knew the 'accuracy & integrity of VPW's Hermetic esoteric 'Christianity'] the sources of VPW's/TWI's fraudulent misrepresentations regarding his source materials, both proximate and remote.

Peace

krysisis - My intention in utilizing the term 'altruistic' {as in self-less, non-selfish, a giving heart expecting nothing in return, no strings attached} regarding your pure motives was totally in a complementary & praise-worthy sense. My apologies if I was not clear.

sirguessalot & krysilis: if there is any public humiliation, it goes for all of us ex-twi, in that we were all scammed and conned by the Cornfield Wizard, VPW. As I have written on my other threads {either Cults or Snapping}, when Belle asked a similar question or raised a similar concern, my opinion is that we were not naive, foolish, stupid, etc. However, due to a transient vulnerability in our personal lives for whatever reason, we were temporarily susceptible to being beguiled by the hermetic hodgepodge of VPW.

socks: I agree that VPW probably did not dig into these remote sources. He was far too lazy & narcissistic. So VPW took the easy route of plagiarizing E.W. Kenyon, who was strongly influenced by Hermetic esotericism. What I am endeavoring to show are some of the more so remote sources of Hermetic esotericism from which the more proximate sources originated, such as the New Thought Metaphysical movement & the related New England Transcendentalism movement.

I am not concerned with the historical background of the mainline denominations. I am concerned about what I feel is one of VPW's most fundamental fraudulent misrepresentations, which is his counterfeit claim that God spoke to him audibly & told him that He would teach VPW the Word as it had not been known since the first century.

Therefore, I am attempting to elucidate, for gscers to consider in their own time & in their own way, what I have investigated concerning both the proximate & remote origins of 'Christianized' Hermetic esotericism. For the most part this material is certainly not the core of 'modern [mainline] Christianity' as far as I know.

At this stage in this thread, I am starting with the pre-Christian 'pagan' Egyptian mythologies, moving on to the Gnostic movements of the first and second millenia, then moving on to Renaissance Hermetic esotericism, then to New Thought Metaphysics (~ 1830 to present, originating in the USA), then on to the Emerson College of Oratory in Boston which Kenyon attended, then on to VPW. VPW via his teutonic ancestry may have had somewhat of a 'jump' on this Renaissance material since such a large amount of the Hermetic esoteric activity took place in Germany and France, including those authors considered to be among the Rhineland Mystics.

I hope I addressed your concern. There are no 'punches' tucked away. You will see as you continue to read the thread the rather obvious parallels to TWI's bizzare theosphy and the history of Hermetic esotericism.

Per catcup (from the thread, Has TWI-II really changed):

DJS

Thank you for taking the time to compose a response.

However, all you are saying about how things have changed, are the very same way TWI changed after the Geer splitoff.

Before then, I could go to HQ and get the "stare right through you look." As a matter of fact, At the opening of the WOW Auditorium, Don Wierwille gave me that exact stare through-- like I was a piece of scum on his newly opened building and what the hell was I doing there. You see, after spending a year on staff in 1982-1983, I saw some pretty intense corruption, called a confrontation meeting with two trustee level people and another person and read them the riot act. This was not well received, and I left of my own accord, and prayed for a change.

When the Geer splitoff happened, there was indeed a change. The same, very same changes you speak of. I too spent some time with "top leadership" afterward-- trustee level-- and was assured changes would be made. They fell all over themselves to try to make us feel welcomed and comfortable. Even got a handwritten apology from Don. Craig gushed at the possiblity that my husband would help. Everything seemed hunky dory. My husband and I stayed and helped try to rebuild the ministry, trusting changes would occur.

Yeah, right.

After several years of "sweetness and light," darkness again fell on The Way International.

You are singing the same song I and many others have sung before. And the same old thing always happens.

Why?

It's evil from the root.

You still have the very person the judge felt was knowledgable of and participated in setting Fern Allen up for getting raped, heading up your organization. Yes, Rosalie Rivenbark. And you have people like Mxrk Wxllxce as region coordinators, a man who threatened death to me, to my family, and to others in my fellowship. That's just a ferinstance.

The Word says that if a ruler hearkens to lies, all his advisors are evil. Rivenbark is not only one who hearkened to lies, but also originates them. The organization needs to be scrapped from the top down and the bottom up.

You have an organization that you even feel is holding back on admitting its wrongs for fear of legal action.

So they're afraid of..........

JUSTICE?

God requires his men and women to do justice and judgment.

And that poisoned organization quivers in fear at the very thought of having to render true justice to those they have harmed, because it would bankrupt them.

I say let justice and judgment roll down upon The Way International.

Hey, you know the old saying... No justice, no peace. Biblical, too.

You say you are smart enough to know when to leave?

Yeah, so was I, but I still left decades too late, trying to save an organization that simply is not salvageable.

Don't make the same mistake. The only thing worse than spending 20 years in a bad organization is spending 20 years and one more second.

Per tomtuttle1 (from the Suicide in the way thread):

It is surprising we didn't have more suicides in TWI than we did. And equally surprising is how quiet all the extra-cirricular activity of these "leaders" was kept. How in hades did they find time to read or teach what was, in many areas, questionably the bible?? Why not just "chuck the whole thing" (reading/teaching bible) and FOCUS on seduction, adultry, rape, sodomy, etc. ?? Maybe they DID. I know on more that one occassion I had to come up with a teaching in 10 minutes.

Someone posted about good ole uncle howard slappin' a french on her and saying, "You've been asking for that all day!!""... What an absolute idiot. Never was too impressed with howie's IQ and sexuality. I'd venture to say he had less sex appeal than a fire hydrant. How gross, what a filthy, presumptuous and egotistical old fart. Not even teek (Tic) would lap at him, even with an after-service burger in his hand. And I would venture a guess that had some "regular" believers known about this stuff, these "leaders" would be in jeopardy of their lives (gee, why did VP have CG, HA and other drivers carry handguns???) ...

In my opinion, this is nothing more than a despicable, strategic cultic [thought reform] re-triggering attempt.

I know ex-twi who left twi for 2 to 5 years, only to be triggered to return to twi's vomit due to apparent 'out of the blue' contact from an innie who was a close friend or at least had some connection to the person.

Re-triggering often works for ex-cult members who have not been sufficiently exit-counseled by a certified mental health professional, such as a psychologist, counseling social worker, or psychiatrist.

These unfortunate folks have a large amount of 'waybrain' of which they are not aware; for the bedazzling voice of TWI, via its anchors, pacing, & leading, has laid down many implicit 'memories' that can be revived to the detriment of the hearer, especially if once again they find themselves in a situation of transiently increased vulnerability.

Beware!

Per diazbro (form the Splinter groups thread):

[Excerpted from JAL's letter:

Whenever I've posted on GSC, I've put my email and phone # so that anyone who really cares about me can contact me for more info. It seems to me that the majority of those who post on GSC need to "get a life," that is, get over their TWI bitterness and victimstance and spread the Word.

Happy New Year!

In Christ's love,

John]

What a shocker. Another former Way leader who wants others to "Get a life". What a huge surprise. These guys don't even want to begin with dealing with the problems of TWI many of which they had a hand in yet did nothing about. I've heard plenty of them say things like "I was doing only what I was told" as if that makes all that they did right and acceptable before God. If these people had any concept of accountability they would deal with the heat instead of telling others to "Get a life". They never apologize or

admit fault yet they know that lots of good people were booted for silly reasons.

Seems to me that guys like JAL need to "get a life" and quit trying to preserve a way of life (no pun intended) that failed miserably. Yet he still plods along and continues to emulate TWI. Most people here cut the Way umbilical (unBIBlical) cord long ago and have distinguished themselves as individuals and christians without needing the blessing of TWI or any of the splinters. Seems to me that these former Way leaders won't let go of their past with TWI and when they do they are horrified at the reality of admitting they were leaders in a dirty organization that caused tons of heartache.

We don't need to buy yet another "research" tape or book to please god.

How about cultivating vital relationships with our families and reinvesting in our talents and interests that many laid aside long ago to join TWI. Seems to me God is more pleased by someone developing themselves in this fashion than to have them languish

in some boring home fellowship wherein people stagnate as they develop arrogant attitudes towards others who don't choose to "fellowship" as they do. Some of us would like to actually realize some of our dreams and goals whereas others jsut want to preserve the status-quo and stay attached to a way of life that most definitely did NOT lead to the more adundant life.

LIKEWISE, regarding the one-sided info you get from MT regarding RP........

Per GrouchoMarxJr (from the Geer & POP thread):

The problem with trying to sort all of this stuff out and make sense of it, is that these people were working from a perspective that is fatally flawed from the get go...

...In order to accept anything that Geer had to say, one must start off with the premise that Wierwille WAS this spiritual giant with great insight and that the "word" that he taught was the real deal...

...It's sort of like visiting a mental institution and trying to make sense out of what the guy (who thinks he is Napoleon) is saying to you. If you accept the premise that he actually IS Napoleon, then you might follow along and agree with him...but if you see him for the crackpot that he is...it makes no sense and he becomes pitiful.

The entire framework of twi thinking was based on being part of their fantasy world. It was a world that was built on the foundations of ego and fueled by self interest and lust. In other words, if you believed the fable of the "snow on the gas pumps", they could twist and shape your mind to conform to their insanity....their pretend world that placed THEM at the center of importance.

Why not read a Green Lantern comic book and then spend the rest of your life trying to find the elusive power ring?

Per My3Cents (from the thread, Chris Geer & the POP meeting...):

QUOTE(shazdancer @ Dec 14 2005, 10:02 AM)

So I guess my question is, What was the BOT doing to CG that pi**ed him off so much that he initiated the POP letter so long after VPW's death?

Maybe I answered my own question. Reading over the "What's Chr** doing now" thread, it seems like there was a lot of wrangling over the making of a new foundational class. Perhaps CG was po'ed that he wasn't allowed to keep the money he was raking in on PFAL.

I'm speculating here, but I'm thinking that his march on Headquarters was designed to get the BOT to loosen the purse strings, and let more money stay in Gartmore. (And remember how much of the POP was devoted to how hard they were working on the Gartmore property?) So instead of saying, "Give me more money," Chris told them in the POP how they were all off the Word (meaning FINANCIALLY off), and how VPW loved what CG was doing, and would have supported his efforts more, except the mean BOT wouldn't listen to him anymore._______________________________________

That's too rational an analysis. I think Geer and many of those who said those High and Mighty pronouncements really believed them at some level. We were, after all emotionally caught up in this thing and many of us/them had serious emotional problems. Tha't why so many of the "pronouncements' of leadership seemed so contratdictory, or why leaders would allow or even encourage actions that went against their stated desire to "move the word" or even build the empire.

Just my 2 cents and one for inflation.

Per catcup (from the Peeler lawsuit thread):

After a quick skim through this thread, I'll leave my input here:

Yes, I gave money to The Way International-- with a certain understanding.

I gave it with the understanding that:

The money I contributed was to go to "move the word." The people living on that money had a fiduciary responsiblity to spend it in the manner it was represented to me that it would be spent. I had a right to expect that the money would be spent frugally, sensibly, and appropriately in "moving the Word of God."

I would have never given one red cent if I had known it went to paying for $1500 suits, Bruno Mali shoes, and paying hotel rooms in which menage trois made a moggy sandwich-- all so I could live on less than half of what my income was with no allowance for savings: giving not only the tithe, but abundant sharing, and paying for all the REQUIRED attendance to functions, classes, events, and purchase of bookstore publications, not to mention all the annual birthday, anniversary, and holiday gifts to every hotshot up and down the Way Tree.

However, having said that I gave the money with the understanding that it would be used to "move the Word," I also gave it with the understanding that:

If I did NOT give, I would NOT prosper.

God would not spit in my direction unless I went above 15%.

To obtain the "blessing" and "protection" of the "household," I would have to live on a "need basis." That meant that everything that did not go to put a tin roof over my head, peanut butter in my baby's mouth, and second hand clothes on our backs, MUST go to The Way International, or disaster would befall us.

It was extortion, plain and simple. Flat out protection money, and it went to things I never agreed to pay for.

TWI and its designated ministers misrepresented to me what the money was to be used for.

To me, that is fraud.

They also used veiled and open threats in order to obtain more money from their followers.

To me, that is extortion.

Peeler vs. TWI et al is now before the TN Appelate Court in Knoxville. The Peelers' co-attorneys, Lawrence Levy & Mike Anderson, will attempt to place perspective on TWI's attempt to sling the mud of irrelevant First Amendment issues [TWI's beliefs] on the wall. TWI's beliefs are NOT the issue in the litigation; it is the CONDUCT, actions, behaviors, practices, etc that are the legal issues.

Hopefully the decision of this Appelate court will be to remand the case back to TN State Circuit Court in Chattanooga, where Judge Marie Williams is to preside over the jury trial.

If remanded, the jury trial date in Chattanooga could possibly be scheduled between July & September 2006.

jkb

Per catcup (from the Peeler lawsuit thread):

After a quick skim through this thread, I'll leave my input here:

Yes, I gave money to The Way International-- with a certain understanding.

I gave it with the understanding that:

The money I contributed was to go to "move the word." The people living on that money had a fiduciary responsiblity to spend it in the manner it was represented to me that it would be spent. I had a right to expect that the money would be spent frugally, sensibly, and appropriately in "moving the Word of God."

I would have never given one red cent if I had known it went to paying for $1500 suits, Bruno Mali shoes, and paying hotel rooms in which menage trois made a moggy sandwich-- all so I could live on less than half of what my income was with no allowance for savings: giving not only the tithe, but abundant sharing, and paying for all the REQUIRED attendance to functions, classes, events, and purchase of bookstore publications, not to mention all the annual birthday, anniversary, and holiday gifts to every hotshot up and down the Way Tree.

However, having said that I gave the money with the understanding that it would be used to "move the Word," I also gave it with the understanding that:

If I did NOT give, I would NOT prosper.

God would not spit in my direction unless I went above 15%.

To obtain the "blessing" and "protection" of the "household," I would have to live on a "need basis." That meant that everything that did not go to put a tin roof over my head, peanut butter in my baby's mouth, and second hand clothes on our backs, MUST go to The Way International, or disaster would befall us.

It was extortion, plain and simple. Flat out protection money, and it went to things I never agreed to pay for.

TWI and its designated ministers misrepresented to me what the money was to be used for.

To me, that is fraud.

They also used veiled and open threats in order to obtain more money from their followers.

To me, that is extortion.

Does anyone know if Steve Axtel, USN (?retired) is in or out of twi?

He's the one who wrote & used to sing @ WIBP etc., "The Band of Gold."

Hi wb,

SP signs her posts as 'ToadFriend.' Also, while in the Corps (?13th), for whatever reason, many on the in-res Corps had an obvious tendency to hassle SP. Why? I don't know for sure, I wasn't there. Per SP, "...my screen name came from the fact that I have a GOOD FRIEND who has nothing to do with GreaseSpot that has the affectionate nickname "Toad" based on the lovable Mr. Toad from Wind in the Willows..." This was news to me.

Therefore I presumed 'Toad' or some similar appelative was her Corps nickname.

SP & wb, I am certainly sorry for any offence.

jkb

Per catcup (from the Suicide in the way thread):

Every person The Way International or it's designated ministers could drive to suicide was one less person who could expose their dirty truth.

It is my own personal opinion, that in that respect, some of the so called "suicides" may have actually been murders.

The person is grief-stricken, confused, and depressed. They are intentionally isolated from their only support network, and intentionally taught that:

"Your life no longer matters to God," and that "...the household would be better off if you didn't take up space on the earth!" and "...You are no longer fit to breathe the same air as the faithful believers!" And the clincher: "...You would be better off if you would drop dead, in order to save your rewards!"

Those specific directives were quoted many, many times by Craig Martindale in Corps nights AND Advanced Class Specials that I attended. I witnessed every word, every viscious, calculated word spit forth from his perverted mouth. I took notes, and have handed them over to the legal team.

I personally believe certain of those suicides may have been murder by design.

This is MY OWN personal opinion, which I have a perfect and legal right to. Yours may vary.

But think about it. It really is the perfect crime. If you have approached a person with sexually servicing you and they deny you, or if they are aware of your secret behaviors, you're in a real fix. You don't want them around because what they may know could be extremely dangerous to your reputation and especially your livelihood. So you use everything and everyone in your power to stop them.

So, there is a self-destruct message included among the indoctrination. Along with completely separating and isolating people from any support network whatsoever other than The Way, you build into the doctrine a person's worthlessness to God if they "cop out." Then at the proper time if need be, the person is mentally, physically, emotionally, financially and or spiritually harassed by whatever means The Way International has at their disposal, to the point of confusion and desperation, and then they are summarily dumped while in a completely vulnerable state.

Whatever is in the power of The Way International, they will and have used, especially at but not limited to HQ: Intimidation techniques (legal and otherwise), the person's so-called Way friends, innie family members, spouse, even goons from the Safety Department to pack your things while you are in the office being confronted, and then they dump you curbside like the ripped bag of maggot-dripping garbage you now believe you are. Then they continue defaming you in every public and private forum available to them, to everyone who ever mattered to you.

In that greatly disturbed and completely vulnerable state, all that person knows and believes and can fall back on is what they have been taught: they are the one who is screwed up, it's their fault, they are a burden to and have brought shame upon themselves, upon the "household," upon the "ministry that taught them the Word," and upon even God Himself. And in order to save what little rewards they may have left, it "would be better for them to die."

So they do it by their own hand. For the good of the "household" and the furtherance of "The Word." They take solace in the fact that their final act in that way is somewhat redeeming, because they are "...removing their sorry carcass from the face of the earth (Craig's words)."

Look Ma, no fingerprints.

Except God sees. God knows.

And He will NOT FORGET.

Nor will I.

Per catcup (from the Suicide in the way thread):

The very first suicide I ever heard of that occurred at The Way International shocked me. It happened in the very early 70's, and I couldn't understand how anyone in TWI could ever get so depressed that they would take their own life, especially someone who worked at The Way International headquarters, and someone who was in such close proximity to "the Man of God." The woman had killed herself in the little outbuilding commonly known as VPW's "clubhouse."

What I know now makes the entire situation much more clearer than it was to me then. John Lynn, my limb leader at the time, simply wrote her off as being "possessed," and that "Dr. Wierwille had done everything in his power to help her." Funny how that label of a person being "possessed" had a way of stopping your mental processes in their tracks-- no more questions, that "explained" everything.

It explains everything, alright.

It's The Way's way of destroying the character of those whom they victimize.

Belle,

Just in case Lt. Col SG does know something regarding TWI & either/or weapons or IRS investigations, do you know if he is currently still in TWI?

jkb