jkboehme

Per QamiQazi (from the BG Leonard thread):

Sunesis, thank you for setting the record straight with honesty and compassion. I've forgotten a lot of the people I briefly knew during my time with The Way International, but I can remember Rochelle's smiling face as if it were yesterday. She was the good friend of a casual friend of mine. I never heard about the accident, or heard so little I forgot it. There should have been lawsuits against The Way for negligence, and putting those kids at risk. I know they or their parents probably signed releases, but one lawyer tells me that releases aren't worth much in a civil court. How many other former Corps kids are still coping with injuries they suffered in that accident? The Way International is a corporation and they bear the liability for these things, and for the pain and suffering of Rochelle's devastated family. They dumped her out on her own (to "mature" of all things - what was the Corps supposed to be about?) and when she couldn't go on, she took her own life and they smeared her name to cover their own tracks. How ugly those people are. How cruel. How heartless!

It seems to me another strategic reason for VPW's use of the term, "Father," has to do with manipulative exploitation of the transference phenomenon. This was just another way utilized by VPW to induce unhealthy dependency on VPW specifically & TWI in general.

Per diazbro (re Peeler vs. TWI et. al.):

The lawsuit activity represents a method to address the abuse within TWI. Its not like TWI , its leaders, past or present are ever going to acknowledge just how whacked they are and were. I've seen lawsuits initiated over far less serious situations. Guess its cool for someone to sue McDonalds over hot coffee ? Now THATS a legitimate use of the legal system ? I don't hear people whining about that or the woman who tried to sue Wendy's over a finger she planted in the chili ? Where is the righteous indignation about that ? But someone DARES sue the one and only great church...and even worse...without first coming to Gspot and asking for general approval ? The nerve of some people to exclude others ! Gspot is not a judicial system and no one (former way or not) needs the approval of this forum to address the problems in their life using standard legal remedies.

I don't think its this huge problem for people to accept that someone can litigate for medical malpractice yet when someone goes after TWI its like they just have to be mercenary SOBS with no other goal than to "steal the ABS". How convenient a "defense" for those who continue to worship at the altar of VPW and TWI. Anyone who would oppose those who sue TWI are either still in love with their lives as a Wayfer or are just simply jealous that someone might get a payday out of it while other Wayfers are left high and dry. Oh boo hoo. If you don't like it that people are going after TWI then sue those people ! In the meantime let the courts handle it…

… Here is the mind blower. If someone who has left TWI seeks therapy, participates in splinter groups, goes to maintsream churches, or even avoids religion altogether no one much cares because each is free to choose their post way pat without seeking the approval of others.

We see people at GSpot debating the merits of

various approaches all the time but nothing seems to be as polarizing as a lawsuit.

The moment someone launches a lawsuit its like they did something *wrong* or are others feel that "hey they didn't suffer any more than I did" and therefore want to dismiss such activities as the result of greed or petty grievances designed to get a payday. If someone in their post way life wishes to chose this path then thats their business ( or yours or mine should we make that choice). Just like if they wanna buddy up with former Way leaders in a splinter thats their choice also. But no one gets riled unless there is a possible payout.

In the postWay life no one owns another's path to reintegration with society at large. There is no compelling need to be like-minded so let each get on with life as they see fit. If that invloves a lawyer then how does that disturb another's peace ? Some former wayfers can live with others being a die-hard for a splinter but not pursuing the Way in court ? Since when is that a bad thing ?

__________________

The case is currently before the TN Appelate Court in Knoxville with the objective of getting the case remanded back to the TN State Circuit Court in Chattanooga. The attorneys should be presenting their cases before the Appelate court in ~ January or February 2006. Presuming the case is remanded, the Circuit Court jury trial could be scheduled in the ~ July to September 2006 timeframe.

From the BG Leonard thread:

Per alfakat:

BINGO!!, shaz--you nailed it...how come vp couldn't a just pointed to Kenyon, Stiles, Leonard, Bullinger, et al, and said "read their stuff, it's great, let's go teach people about God and His Son"???? Why, you ask?? I'll tell you--no adulation and worship in that for vp--nope, none at all...No "just write The Teacher" stuff, no first apostle since the first century malarkey... no "Ladies and gentlemen, the founder and President of The Way International, Inc., DR. Victor Paul Wierwille!!!!" intros, none of that smoke and mirrors baffle a-tall...

Per shazdancer:

It is all about power. Narcissists want to be heard, they don't want to listen. They want to align themselves with authority to impress others -- who better to be aligned with than God Almighty? They want to be admired, so they create a persona of goodness and expertise. They prefer to take shortcuts to power, hence the plagiarism.

From the suicide in the way thread:

Per Wayne Bragg:

The woman that committed suicide was the sister of Al Wainberg, who was ordained clergy of TWI. Al at that time was a branch leader in San Francisco, California. From what little I know of the incident, I heard that she was very pretty. I also heard a very disturbing rumor connected with her demise. She was in the first year of residence in the Way Corps, TWIs leadership training program. Dr. Wierwille, perhaps a voyeur, always seemed excited about showing a film that he truly loved called the Animal Farm to the incoming Way Corps. I think he must have enjoyed watching the ladies responses to the sexually explicit scenes depicting sex between animals and women. I heard that VPW took special notice of Al’s sister and spoke to one of his people stating that she was naive and that he could help her.

Per Sunesis:

I was very close to Rochelle, in fact she called me the night before she left H.Q.

Rochelle was in her last year in-residence when she committed suicide after leaving H.Q. I was on staff at H.Q. at that time.

Anyone who knew Rochelle knew she had a history of attempted suicide and suicidal tendencies. She was very open about this to those who knew her. JAL had not wanted her to come back after her interim year, they felt she needed a little more time to "mature." Rochelle insisted.

When they went out lightbearers, Rochelle had gone with another believer to see a fortune teller, she had tremendous guilt about this when she came back, we discussed it. She also had the pressure of her research paper, which was not going well. She was also through all of this, in great pain and was on constant painkillers for her neck and other injuries suffered in the accident. She would also feel guilty that she was not living up to the standards of the corps. I spent hours with her. Oddly enough, before she died, she seemed very at peace. She said God had been showing her a lot about the Hope.

Then, she got thrown out of the Corps - it was a shot out of the blue, very quick and fast. They decided LOA would be best for her. She was devasted. I do not know the specific reasons why. She was supposed to leave, I think on a Monday morning or something after seeing the leadership (MF). She was very good friends with another guy from Emporia who was also leaving and going LOA. Not wanting to suffer the embarrassment and humiliation of staying, she left with him. Now the rest I know because I asked him personally, he knew how close we were and so told me the whole story.

Rochelle was going LOA and was to drive to her brother's house in Connecticut where he was a leader there. Anyway, Rochelle was young, cute and loved cute guys - i.e., a normal young girl. She offered to take the corps guy to Indiana. I think she didn't want to be alone just then. They stayed at the limb home a few days while he made arrangements to get to Kansas. She was very depressed during this time and the limb people were not very nice to her and wanted her to hit the road. In a state of depression she leaves.

She makes it to my town, Columbus, Ohio. That's as far as she got. My father called me after seeing the article in the Columbus Dispatch of her suicide in the motel. I drive past that place every day to and from work now - room 34. Anyway, her brother called me at H.Q. and gave me the news. We talked. It seems Rochelle had quite a few pain pills, was alone in the hotel room and decided to do end her life. She killed herself with her painkiller pills. She was found on the floor of the hotel room.

After her death, the Trustees lied and said she had been entertaining a guy there. Anything to smear her name. She had been alone.

After Al called I went to see MF, the corps coordinator. I was furious. I asked how, knowing her history - or that he should have known - they could have just let her go like that? Or how could they not call the limb home and make sure someone was with her or have her brother come get her? Its a long lonely ride from Indiana to Connecticut on your own in that state of mind. MF was annoyed at me, how dare I butt in. I asked how he could have let this happen. He said it wasn't his fault and didn't seem to particularly care. I then told him that he had her blood and death on his hands. I still believe that to this day - he in particular. Plus any other leadership who made this decision and those in Indiana.

He was not a happy camper after that. I'm surprised I wasn't thrown off staff. It still boggles my mind they just got rid of her, no follow up. MF said she disobeyed because she was supposed to wait and leave later. Right, like this young girl, in depression and suffering the humiliation of leaving her corps, is going to stick around for more BS verbal abuse from the leadership. I would have left too. People don't understand if you were corps, the total humiliation of not "cutting it." Keep that in mind.

But for those to try to smear her good name, memory and life, especially with perverted sex rumors or that she was sexually loose or promiscuous, keep in mind these are lies - lies started by the Trustees, one in particular.

As far as I know she was never with VPW, if she was, it would have been just one more thing to push her over the edge. But, she was a sweet young woman, who I believe if had been handled with love and compassion instead of hardness and cruelty would still be here today...

…Well, the sad thing about Rochelle's suicide is her brother was really the only relative she had. They had fled Russia. I don't remember if her father had deserted them, but I know he wasn't in the picture and Rochelle had grown up with a mom who had been in and out of institutions. It was a terrible home situation.

So, TWI was literally the only family she had. Leadership knew this. Its on their hands…”

Per diazbro (from the BG Leonard thread, re FCA = Fellowhip of Christian Athletes as compared to Athletes of the Spirit):

"...Sound kind of familiar ? Using sports as a metaphor for the christian

walk ? I was active in this organization growing up and I'm quite c

ertain that LCM would have had some enocunter with this group. Famous

athletes like Fran Tarkenton supported the outfit so it was far from

obscure. Whenever I wanted to comapre the AOS concept to FCA I got

silenced real quick. People were telling me that FCA was the counterfeit

to TWI's truth and they simply would't hear me when I mentioned that FCA

was in exsitence long before AOS came around..."

Per Greek2Me:

"...I've seen the tape of the Leonard's at TWI as well. It's sometimes (usually?) shown during "the Gifts of the Spirit" class. I think this practice is done when classes are mostly made up of ex-wayfers, I'm not sure.

My understanding is that Martindale ordered the tape to be destroyed because it was full of lies and it wasn't "on the word". (Brother Leonard kept referring to the TWI-verbaged "manifestations" as the biblically-accurate, "gifts of the Spirit".) Only problem is, Craig forgot about the tape that was given to the Leonard's when they left TWI the day after the taping. (Warned of God according to Sis. Evelyn) Anyway, upon leaving TWI the Leonard's conducted a class in Montana or Idaho I think, and didn't return to Brownsville for about three weeks. When they returned, their house had been broken into and ransacked, though nothing was found to be missing. Amazing Coincidence..."

On either the Snapping or Cults thread, someone mentioned that they thought the reason the IRS finally pulled their multi-year operation off of TWI HQ grounds was that TWI gave the IRS the names of some DFACs {dropped from active corps} so that the IRS would pursue them instead of corporate TWI.

It seems to me that there had to be more to this than that. As I recall, the main reason that the IRS was on TWI HQ grounds was due to TWI’s involvement with & financial contributions to the senatorial campaign of Hayes Gahagan of Maine. There are & were federal laws prohibiting this type of activity. There may have been other significant issues of misuse of funds relative to laws regulating section 503c supposedly non-profit religious corporations.

From a personal conversation before she died, Dr. Margaret Singer told me that she had been contacted by the IRS to serve as a witness in a federal lawsuit against TWI. Other national level experts were to be witnesses as well. Nevertheless, the case did not proceed to court. Did TWI buy, bribe, or plea bargain its way out of this litigation?

Does anyone here at gsc know any more details as to why this federal litigation was dropped?

Per TheEvan (from the BG. Leonard archival thread):

"...Yes, Leonard was there, along with Mrs. Leonard. But not at the [vpw's]funeral, but that next Racca Ages. Or mebbe it was just for Score week. Mrs. Leonard said it was surreal. They put them up in a trailer on grounds. They had a session in the BRG hosted byPam Craley, the historian. She asked them questions of interest to Way history which they answered kindly and circumspectly. BG's answers were more preaching than simply story telling. I asaw a video of this session.

There was a steady stream of people going to the trailer at all hours for healing. When the Great Fore Head heard of this a sentry was posted there to keep people away! So they'd sneak in the back door. I recall there were lots of health problems at HQ in those days. Hmmm.

This was the very Score Week during which the Fore Skin went ballistic on Leonard & the region leader. I'm hoping the Leonard's were already..."

Per Oakspear (from the BG Leonard thread)

"...I believe that while there was some good stuff in PFAL, the seeds for abuse were planted right there in the class; one example is the "every woman belongs to the king" b.s. - my opinion is that PFAL was designed, not as a vehicle to help peoiple, but as a vehicle to control people, any helpful aspects were part of the bait..."

___________________________

I agree. TWI was/is a bait & switch scam, i.e., it routinely operated via fraudulent misrepresentation. That alone disqualifies it as a 'ministry.' Then factor in TWI's strategic use of non-consented covert packaged persuasion, & the evaluation of TWI's 'ministerial' CONDUCT is much worse than being simply unethical, as bad as that is for a supposed 'ministry.'

From the BG Leonard archival thread:

Per ckeer:

"...What VPW, Hagin and other have done is market a product. They have taken "Ideas" from others, some previously published, some not.

They have packaged, branded and marketeted them more successfuly than those (Bullinger, Kenyon, Leonard, Stiles and others) who developed them. These assimilators were more sucessful at diseminating the information because they were better marketers. Pehaps because part of their motivation was wealth power and prestige.

I remember VPW stated durring the first part of the foundational class how much he had read works "around" the bible an "Word" for years before he started to just go to the "Word".

He takled about how he had met many men who had great ministries but he at least implied that they fell away from him because they would not "Go to the Word". I now wonder if this was his attempt to attribute and credit by discrediting his sources. Was it an excuse to plagarise? An indication of VPW's own weakness?

I also wonder what it was he saw in the "man of God" that came to teach at his church. I can't remember his name but if I remember the story, when "The man of God" was introduced to VPW he asked VP- what he wanted to do when he grew up and VP replied "be a man of God like you sir". Why? From a psychological stand point this could reveal a great personal weakness..."

From the BG Leonard archival thread:

Per excathedra:

"...NO ONE in the way ministry was allowed to GRIEVE ANYTHING

IS THE LOSS OF A CHILD, THE LOSS OF A CHILDHOOD, THE LOSS OF (YOU SAY IT HERE) not important enough to a GOD YOU LOVE AND SERVE?"

Per WordWolf:

"...Humanity was outlawed in twi, since it was inefficient and takes time and

energy away from twi activities.

Besides, they didn't have anyone handy to rip off/plagiarize/"borrow from" in

terms of decent counseling skills..."

Per wyteduv58 (from the BG Leonard archival thread):

"...Dear Dot, I know what you mean about not letting us be negative when something devestating happens, we need to talk about it.

I had a beautiful son that was hit and killed by a car in 1980.

He was only one month shy of his 10th birthday and I was devastated, I needed to talk about it to someone so desparately and because of the way-brained a$$ hole leaders that thought they were councellors my need to talk was snuffed out. I was told to go WOW and then into the corpse. That was supposed to heal me they said. So like good little wayfer I did it and suppressed my grief in front of others, cuz most of them didn't have a brain between all of them, but they were leaders and you don't question leaders, after all they have all the answers don't they? You know what one of them told me? He said my God let my boy die because he might grow up to be a homo or murderer or something worse, so God killed him to save him?

I can remember going out in the woods by myself behind our wow home and screaming at the top of my lungs just to releive the mental anguish I was going thru.

And the Corpse was even worse, trying to act happy all the time when I just wanted to scream at everyone "my son is dead" and you tell me to get over it like he was a dog or something.

When we got back home it was like walking into a nightmare, just seeing our house and neighbors and the "ghost" of my baby.

My mental health took a nose dive, but I still had to keep it in, then just over 2 years ago my little 4 year old grandaughter died after heart surgery. That did it for me. I went into a catatonic state and stayed there for about 3 months.

Thanks to a good "natural man" psyciatrist I've been able to work thru the oain and learn to handle it. Not get over it, that will never happen. You just learn how to handle it.

Now I'm able to help my son try to get his life back togather because I know what he is going thru and he will NOT have to do it alone like I did.

In my opinion any one of those so called counsellors in twi should be prosecuted for all the damage they did to so many of us. Not just me. Alot of people went thru something similar and got the same treatment I got which was nothing.

I just thank my God and my wonderful husband who stuck with me even when leaders told him to divorce me cuz they thought I was nuts.....well duh I wonder why? My hubby stuck with me and made sure I got the help I needed. I'm still going to my "shrink". and probably will for a long time. But I did get myself back when I left twi and even got a sense of humor to boot. I know this is a sad story but its true and I can finally talk about it without feeling guilty for being negative. You keep up the good work and speak your mind. Love ya girl..."

Got the docs from a non-twi friend.

Regarding the fact that TWI routinely requested their own FOIPA, I did not know this, but neither am I surprised.

In this stack of repetitious records that I have, there are 3 copies of a letter from LCM, on TWI letterhead, dated 30 May 1984, to the Dept. of Justice. The essence of the letter is that LCM was requesting that the FBI totally expunge its records regarding TWI in 4 categories: (i) use of weapons; (ii) misuse of funds; (iii) anti-Semitism; &, (iv) mind control.

The FBI responds by letter dated 13 June 1984, stating, "...There are no statuatory provision enabling an organization such as yours to make that kind of request. Consequently, we have no authority to expunge or amend FBI records pertaining to your organization..." JKH, Chief FOIPA Section, Records Management Division.

Per Hope R. (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):

"...I'm going back to page 3 to Shazzy's post because it really hit me between the eyes...

quote:

VPW offered the works of others in The Way bookstore, but he conveniently left out those specific works he stole from.

and

Wierwille never offered B.G. Leonard's work in The Way bookstore as far as I know, and I go back to 1971. Why did he offer some of the works of Kenyon, Bullinger, etc.? I would guess that he simply wanted to flesh out his bookstore and earn more profit! When he had written more of his own stuff, I noticed the works of others just sort of dried up.

That is such a great observation. Why didn't he have Stiles and Leonard's books in the bookstore? They probably weren't as academic as Kenyon, Bullinger and Lamsa - us hippies would have figured out the incredible similarities! I remember reading "How to Enjoy the Bible" and thinking the teachings were a lot like PFAL, just more complicated. I never thought about plagiarism because in PFAL, VP made sure everyone got a look at the "Four Crucified" appendix in "The Companion Bible" and Bullinger was verbally credited.

There was also some fuzzy stories about VP figuring all this stuff out himself and then discovering Bullinger and others later. How amazing! What a MOG!

He gave just enough credit to others for me to believe that that was all he got from others. Does that make sense..."

Per Dot Matrix (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):

"...I DO think VPW was the counterfeit.

Maybe I do not KNOW his heart but let's see:

He was a minister of a church and left because of an affair.

He wanted to start his own ministry so he plagiarized other people's work to start a ministry.

He taught the first few corps first hand that he had "needs to get met". Virtually almost all the ordained women in the ministry first had to service VPW. If they were honest and able to deal with what they have done, they would swing by and tell us. So, he ruined all those girls lives while feeding his depraved sexual appetites.

(One example, an 18 year old girl was in the corps it was the 2nd or 3rd, I think. VPW used to meet her at a special place. She was convinced she was special to him. She was young and easily led. One day, she went to their special place and there VPW was "sexually healing" another young corps girl. Both of these women are ordained. I got the story from the first girls' own mouth, when she tried to recruit me into the sex stuff!)

He assaulted EX. He invited me to the coach and was naked asking for "favors". When I refused he set out to ruin me.

He lied to the believers. I know of at least one meeting where we drove through horrid snow to get to this mandatory meeting. HE cancelled the last teaching and fellowship because he said he had important things God wanted him to attend to -- he was going to sexually "heal" a friend of mine.

The ministry paid for abortions when girls themselves in trouble with leadership. One corps girl had SEVEN abortions paid for by ministry money.

A HUGE respected leader in TWI told me VPW convinced a woman he could bless her and her daughter sexually. They went to him together.

VPW had us gathered around him one night and shared about how in Africa the father deflowers the daughter. Then, he said we should teach our children not to be afraid of our bodies and we could touch their nipples and show them how they hardened. Then, shared an example. Promoting incest..."

"...Perhaps the problem is what we think of as "evil." I used to think it was like in the movies -- shifty-eyed, grimacing, everything done with a snarl, never a kind word to anybody. Ebeneezer Scrooge meets Dracula, ya know?

But the face of evil is not like that. The truly evil person shows kindness regularly, especially when it costs him very little. He justifies his life to himself that way -- if he were only evil always, he could not stand to live with himself. He is cheerful and upbeat, confident, well-mannered and well-groomed, drawing people with his charisma. He fools others about what he really stands for, and more importantly, he fools himself. But keeping up this charade takes a lot of energy, so sooner or later, his selfish intents will emerge.

Those who he has so easily put on pedestals of admiration he just as easily demeans and discards. People, to him, are not to be loved, they are to be used, for admiration, and sex, and money, and power. He looks for people who are gentle, kind, forgiving, and nurturing, because they will overlook his evil the longest. (Exy, are ya listening?) On the fringes of his acquaintance are those whose reputations boost his -- in his inner circle are those from whom he can take what he wants.

So while the masses are lauding him to the skies for his wonderful deeds among them, he is privately writing them off as beneath him, as he is the Enlightened One. And he rides on the wave of his reputation to victimize the chosen few..."

OM,

Is Drambuie any good in egg nog?

Merry Christmas / jkb

Per TheEvan (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):

"...But I can state, just from a biblical perspective, that Wierwille was not a true minister in any sense of the word. He disqualified himself on pretty much every count. I think his behavior wholly invalidates everything he did and he deserves no credit at all. I say that in the same sense that Jim Jones' actions actions makes him, upon consideration, evil. Not a minister of the gospel. Yet Jones said/did plenty of good things or so many folks wouldn't have followed him. Yet, I fear no contradiction in calling him evil. Similarly, I fear no contradiction in calling Wierwille evil. I don't care how many people got healed, met the Lord, yada yada. By the definitions of the VERY Bible that Wierwille worshipped he was not a minister of the gospel..."

Per excathedra (from the B.G. Leonard thread):

"...it is a fact (NOT my opinion) that the good doctor spent a few years counseling me about the love of god and the way of a man with a maiden. i've told this too many times. he one-on-one taught me about how wrong it was for me to have been sexually abused as a kid and why he should show me what "real" love was all about

okay, i told him i could NOT handle this stuff and he went on to why i should be meek and open to deliverance

i finally got delivered ha ha ha ha ha ha when he finally got me but i was not in my right state of mind. after that time he would not give me the time of day. probably because it's no fun being with a dead (well almost unconscious) person

i myself honestly do not care about bg leonard. if i NEVER meet a man of god again, it will be too soon. would this have happened to me under leonard's "ministry"???? how the heck do i know? i never met the guy

as far as the "no wonder wierwille kids don't come on here" or however that was said (it's not a direct quote), i could care less about that. i do care for them as fellow human beings and abuse victims survivors..."

Per Dot Matrix (from the B.G. Leonard thread):

"...If VPW was a sweet little minister who lacked the skills to put together a church and stole someone elses work and it got people saved I could stop at your post and say yeah, she's right, the heck with things. VPW made a mistake and some good cane out of it.

But it was bigger than that; VPW stole the man's lifetime work, then started a ministry to abuse people. So, we got saved and were immediately escourted in to depravity, abuse and oppression.

VPW was the counterfiet sent to make sure those that were looking were rendered impotent shortly after finding Christ..."

Per igotout (from the PFAL was stolen thread from the archives):

This might shed light on some of the thinking and belief among the followers of The Way at the time in earlier years. In 1974 when I first took the PFAL class I remember being fascinated by the four crucified. Rev. Anderson (Limb leader) at break showed us the Bullinger bible article. But it was promoted as "See, here is another gentleman named E.W. Bullinger who also came to to the same conclusions as Dr. Wierwille." This amazed me because it was promoted as if these two men arrived at this conclusion independently of each other.

As I inquired further, some of the older grads explained to me that after the 1942 promise, "Dr." did lots of research. He apparently stumbled on Bullingers works and was amazed because it here was a man who came to the same conclusions on God's word that he did in his reasearch.

The story goes that "the Dr." stayed up all night reading Bullinger's works because he was so thrilled to find someone whose research lined up with his. What was a 20 year old to do...? I was hooked.

Job says "Oh, that mine enemies had written a book"

I say, "Oh, that mine enemies had been posted on the internet".

Additional insight into VPW's/TWI's fraudulent misrepresentations, lying, plagiarism, etc. from the PFAL was Stolen thread:

Per FreshAir 99:

From what I remember, B.G. Leonard was rarely credited with any of vpw's learning. Perhaps, because vpw copied SO MUCH of it and didn't want to be exposed with fraudulent claims of "God teaching him (vpw) directly."

If vpw would have been forthright about coming forward with this information and COMPILING THE PFAL CLASS FROM THESE MEN'S WORKS....then, to me, it wouldn't be as big a deal. BUT...... to pawn himself off like THE ONLY MAN OF GOD SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY TO HAVE SUCH TRUTH......it turns my stomach.

Per Dot Matrix:

But still there is that God promise thing about being taught the word like it was not taught since the First Century -- and yet THERE IT WAS in print -- After the First Century pre-PFAL

Per TheEvan (from the PFAL was stolen thread from the archives):

I'll hasten to add that Wierwille didn't get all of PFAL from Leonard. That's just where it started. Over the years he added (Bullinger and others) and changed it for his own reasons.

It makes me realize that Leonard's class had a profound impact on Wierwille. So profound, he decided to base an offshoot ministry on the concept, if not the exact content. The rip-off was so wholesale that he repeatedly omitted Leonard from references as to who he learned from. The only place you see it is in The Way Living in Love, wherein Wierwille gives the account of meeting Leonard & taking his class but in the end dismisses him with "he was great with experiences but not with the Word". He claims to have gone home & "put it all together with the Word" Yeah right.

I was dumbfounded, and more than a little distracted, when I heard BG use Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup & Henry Boloco in his illustrations. And I became convinced that some of Wierwille's strange pronunciations were not from his corner of rural Ohio...he actually copped them from BG. I mean, that's WIERD.

Maybe he smelled the potential following, fame, fortune when he saw BG's work. And being a lazy liar he took the shortest path to success in ministry...lying & stealing. What a legacy!

____________

his legacy:our father, beneath the fountain, hollow be thy name;our father, who art a heathen, sallowed be thy name.

Per Mark:

I can't personally speak for anyody else who was military and TWI at the same time here, but I will tell you that I NEVER gave any classified information out nor was I asked. Had I been asked, I would have said no. Had the person asking pushed, it would have set up a conflict in me that would have resulted in my departure earlier than, in fact, happened. As I said, I can't personally speak for anybody else, but if I was to wager, I would wager that this would be the reaction of most.

______________

Mark, I appreciate your perspective as former military. This is helpful. The more ex-military that post, the better, so we can see the spectrum of opinions on these matters.

Nevertheless, one item you mentioned that concerns me is this. What if someone had become so internally conflicted in a given situation that he or she did release classified information or materials? Even if most military folks wouldn't have given in, it only takes ONE individual to cause a major situation.

I'm sure you have read the posts over the past several years where various individuals have said that they would have done ANYTHING that vpw or lcm requested, including homocide.

Now when this is put in the context of national security, personally, I find it disturbing that a 'heavily indoctrinated' TWI member apparently has top security clearance, is in the White House several days per week, and appears to have some management or command authority re PEOCU predator drones and global hawks. Maybe his next assignment will be nukes?

I am not personally familiar with many national or international level conspiracies. In fact the only one that comes to mind right now, at least, is TWI. TWI gladly co-opted medical, counseling, & legal professionals. To what degree was TWI involved in co-opting military professionals with a high security clearance?

We need to have definitive answers.

Per Vickles (from the sociopathic & narcissistic thread):

Profile of a Sociopath

A number of mind-manipulating cult leaders may exhibit many of the behavioral characteristics of a sociopath-an outstanding ability to charm and seduce followers. Since they appear apparently normal, they are not easily recognizable as deviant or disturbed. Although only a trained professional can make a diagnosis, it is important to be able to recognize the personality type in order to avoid further abuse. These traits also apply to a one-on-one cultic relationship.

Glibness/Superficial Charm

Language can be used without effort by them to confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally.

Manipulative and Conning

They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They dominate and humiliate their victims

Grandiose Sense of Self

Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the 'spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc. Creates an us-versus-them mentality

Pathological Lying

Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistant basis. Can create and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions

When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises

Incapacity For Love

While they talk about "God's love" they are unable to give or receive it. Since they do not believe in the geniunes of their followers' love, they are very harsh in testing it from their devotees and expect them to feel guilt for their failings. Expects unconditional surrender.

Need for stimulation

Living on edge, yet testing the beliefs of their followers with bizarre rules, punishments and behaviors. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal

Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Unable to emphasize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. Their skills are used to exploit, abuse and exer power. Since the follower cannot believe their leader would callously hurt them, they rationalize the abuse. When devotees become aware of the exploitation it feels like a "spiritual rape" to them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others. The followers only see them as near perfect.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends, aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability

Not concerned about wrecking others lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devatation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blame their followers or others outside their group. Blame reinforces passivity and obedience and produces guilt, shame, terror and conformity in the followers.

Promisuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Totalist leaders frequently practice promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts. This is usually kept hidden from all but the inner circle. Stringent sexual control of their followers, such as forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from parents, rules for dating, etc.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future. Many groups claim as their goal world-domination or other utopian promises. Great contrast between the leader's opulent lifestyle and the followers' impoverishment. Support by gifts and donations from the followers who are pressured to give through fear and guilt. Highly sensitive to their own pain and health

Criminal or Entrpreneurial Versatility

Changes their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and to increase income and to recruit a range of members. Is able to adapt or relocate as needed to preserve the group. Can resurface later with a new name, a new front group and a new twist on the scam

Other Related Qualities:

Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them

Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them

Authoritarian

Secretive

Paranoid

Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired

Conventional apprearance

Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)

Exercises depostic control over every aspect of the victim's life

Has an emotional need to jusify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (repect, gratitude and love)

Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim

Incapable of real human attachment to another

Unable to feel remorse or guilt

Extreme narcissism and grandiose

May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

I guess what concers me is that here is a TWI innie, who as recently as a few months ago had an office in the White House, whether shuffling papers or tweaking his drone's gps, I don't know. The PEOCU is involved with unmanned global hawks and predator drones, such as the type that killed Sadam Hussein's two sons.

But how in the world does a cultic TWI innie get clearance to be in the White House several days per week? What kind of pro-TWI trash is he scattering about the White House? To the Home Land Security? To the Office of Faith-Based Communty Initiatives, so that his favorite cult can get our tax dollars? Scarry to me.

What connection, if any, does this person have to the late 70's nuclear concerns?