Radar OReilly

Are you sure you don't mean Jim Dorr?

ROR

I am so sorry to hear this. What a sad tragedy for her family.

Radar

SS,

I don't know when you left twi, or under what circumstances but there are at least 3000 grads of that gawd awful WAP class running around, problably more like 5000. Any pfal grad still with twi has taken wap...twi doesn't let "just anyone" attend their fellowships. People can't just hang out at fellowship for a year before taking wap, in order for their fellowships to be "clean and sactified" twi followers need to be "in the household."

Anyway, my point with all this isn't how many pfal grads vs how many wap grads there are. I was just addressing your response to Hope's request not to turn this thread into a pfal expose. No matter which set of classes people have taken the issue here is the fact that people were hurt in twi whether or not other people saw the hurts being inflicted.

I have a friend that I was in the corps with...sometimes we go years without talking to each other or seeing each other. Whenever we get together part of our time is always spent reminising about our in residence corps experiences. Without exception she will bring up some event and remember it as clear as if it had happened yesterday but I won't remember anything of the sort occuring, and vice versa. She always says "we did?" or "I was there?"... I am likely to tell her it was my evil twin that she remembers doing something or the other.

To dismiss someone elses experiences as not happening, or to accuse them of lying or embellishment is simply another form of denial for some people, Kind of like when you play with a cat or kitten....have you ever seen a cat hide it's head while playing? It totally believes that since it can't see you....you can't see it...never mind the fact that its entire body is sticking out from behind the sofa.

ROR

Seaspray honey,

Let me clue you in on something. VPW has been dead for 18 years, he hasn't been president of twi in over 20 years. PFAL has not been available in twi for almost 10 years. There are lots and lots of people here at Gspot and still in twi that have NEVER TAKEN PFAL and weren't even born when vpw died.

Are you stuck in some sort of a "Groundhog's Day" scenario? Are you reliving daily the same old thing? If so, you need to read what other people here at Gspot and other Xway sites are saying. What you remember about twi, vpw, pfal, twig (oh, they haven't been called twigs in 10 years) wow (gone-gone-gone, been gone since 95) the corps (still going but weird as all get out) ARE NOT THE TWI YOU REMEMBER.

Starting in the mid 90s that was even one of lcm's slogans "This ain't your fathers twi."

So, back to Hope's point...even if YOU had a grand ole time in twi, there were people that were being hurt, abused and manipulated. Just cause you were off in lalalala land....doesn't mean everybody took that same cruise.

I broke my ankle while in residence in the corps...you didn't see it...does that mean you are going to tell me it didn't happen? It happened whether or not you or anyone else saw it. Lots of people over the years were hurt in ways much more serious than that, just because I didn't see it doesn't mean that it didn't happen, it just means I was looking at something else.

ROR

Hey Likeaeagle,

I lived in Greensboro for a number of years. It is a great town. I live in Wilmington NC now which is a great beach town.

Seymour Johnson AFB is in Goldsboro NC which is closer to Raleigh and to Rocky Mount than it is to Greensboro.

Make the move! NC is a great state to move to, and just so long as you work at NOT developing a southern accent....you should love it here!

ROR

Oh yeah Dot....Bruce (B R U C E) still has it! :D-->

But I gotta say, Simon and Garfunkle on the same stage....brought tears to my eyes.

And....as weird as it is to hear myself say, In Sync doing their tribute to the BeeGees was Awesome.

ROR

oh...Stairway to Heaven has to be up there in the top 10.

Radar

Dear Robi,

Happiest of birthdays girl! Hope the year to come is the best ever (so far!) ;)-->

Love,

Radar

Dear Jim, Happy Happy Birthday. You were one of the first people I "recognized" when Waydale first started up, you and the Sobers :)-->. Thanks for being there, and so supportive when I first made my leap to freedom.

Some say old friends are the best...since I have known you since I was 14...I guess that includes you! (and the Sobers and Masterherbalist.)

Have a wonderful birthday, enjoy the time with your wifey and daughter.

Radar

To the rest of you: Jim was one of my first "twig leaders" back in CA when I was in High School. If you don't like me....BLAME HIM!!!

DJ...I LOVE LOVE LOVE Reno. Even though I now live on the other coast, I am from N CA and have spent plenty of time there. Besides our own Fred and Kit (XXOO) there is another bay area x-way couple there that are the salt of the earth as well.

Radar

Exxie, sorry to derail this great thread.

ROR

OCD, unless you have seen a copy of the twi/allen settlement....you don't have any idea what the settlement was. You don't know if the status of Waydale was EVEN DISCUSSED, and furthermore it is none of your business.

Hey by the way, I love that part of the state you live in....I used to live there myself, now I am on the Carolina Coast.....and it is BEAUTIFUL.

ROR

OCD 1

You are an IDIOT....do you hear me?

There is one cardinal rule here at Greasespot that cannot and will not be overlooked and that is that victims of lcm (and others) are not to be ridiculed, and definitely NOT by name.

You don't know what you are talking about regarding the Allens. You don't know them and you don't know what the terms of the settlement with TWI were. You don't know and you will never know. You don't know if there was an exchange of any money......you don't know if either of them post here under "handles" or not, YOU DON'T KNOW CRAP about this whole situation.

RADAR

WOW INSURGENT, that was an awesome post......if you are a guy, can I marry you?

ROR :D-->

WG....I understand where you are coming from, you are not one of the normal "neanderthal" posters. This is a tough subject to understand, tough if you are one of the victims, and maybe tougher to understand if you aren't.

If your question is not answered by now....it probably won't ever be, you may already have made your mind up and aren't really interested in putting yourself in someone else's shoes.

Either way.....what is real to the victims is what is real. What is real to the spectators....who cares?

Radar

Well....we know that the fox is ruling the hen house for starters!

ROR

Oldiesman,

It is ALWAYS ABOUT POWER when the aggressor is in POWER over the victim.

Maybe it isn't about power to the Aggressor (man or woman) but it is about power to the VICTIM (man or woman) and that is the perspective that counts. You are under the assumption that we only think it is rape or assault when the aggressor is a man and the victim is a woman. YOU ARE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. It would be assault/rape if the aggressor was a woman and the victim is a man if the scenario is set up because the aggressor is ABLE to approach and deceive the victim because of the aggressor's position.

Do you think any normal young woman would VOLUNTARILY go off and have sex with lcm if he had been a bagger at the grocery store? Hell NO!

Radar

Oldiesman, you are dragging your knuckles here big guy!

There are some boundaries in our society here in America that, if crossed, are always AMORAL.

The burden and responsibility for the error always being on the person in the position of power.....among them: parent and child, teacher and student, minister and congregant.

Let me pose this to you: A parent has sex with a child, who is responsible? A teacher has sex with a student...who is responsible? A 25 year old has sex with a 14 year old...are you going to tell me that is ok if the 14 year old Wants it?

NO!!!! Just ask any of the adults serving time in prison for rape of a child!

As for horny ministers....let 'em do what men all over the world do...PAY FOR IT....that is what prostitutes are for.

ROR

WG you raise a very good point, why DIDN'T women speak up at the time of being assaulted, or at least soon after? I can't really speak to EXACT SPECIFICS and TRUE motivations of these women but I have given this much thought over the past few years and here I go:

First I want to say that I am MUCH more familiar with LCM and his activities and the time frame AFTER 1982 as that is when I went into residence in the corps. Upon graduating on July 6, 1985 I went directly on staff at HQ and was there until August 19th 1994.

Many women that have been spiritually & physically abused were completely "disabled" emotionally. Just like with any other rape victim...back in the 70s and 80s they still believed that MAYBE, somehow, some way....they could have personally brought it all on themselves. In 1978 I was VIOLENTLY raped by a guy in my twig that was out on prison furlough...and the then limb coordinator REFUSED to LET me report it to the police because it would look bad on the ministry. I was barely 18....and what the heck did I know?

I don't remember the public sentiment beginning to change to realize the truth about assault and rape until that Jodie Foster movie, "The Accused." We as a society are just now beginning to realize that NO MEANS NO, and that there are boundries that should NEVER be crossed such as ministers to their flock.

There were plenty of women that spoke up, and as illustrated in HopeR's post the top poobahs were completely rehearsed in the company - line damage control. The women who spoke up were immediately labeled as possessed, anything they spoke as lies from the pit of hell, and anyone that listened to them were all "thrown under the bus" with them. The women that spoke up were discredited and marked with a scarlet letter.

Over the last 30 years there have been plenty of lawsuits of all kinds filed against twi. Most of them were very quietly and privately settled, some very early on. Twi was careful to let only a select few even know about them.

I firmly believe that the reason the Allens and JKB were able to take twi to the mat with their lawsuits is because both of the husbands of these victims were solidly behind their wives.

In addition we can't underestimate the fact the Ex-Twi(P Allen) is a very smart man that understood the power the internet held for publishing information. Waydale did exactly what he intended for it to do.....give an insider's look at twi workings and the board of trustees. The internet allowed THOUSANDS of disenfranchised pfal grads to come together and compare notes, gain strength, increase in knowledge and GAIN POWER THROUGH UNITY.

I am sorry this post is so long.....I try not to write novelettes any more but this subject is important to me.

ROR

SocketCreep,

I am so excited for you. Here are two great websites for you:

www.petfinder.com & www.petfinder.org.

Both sites will let you plug in your state/region and define the type of pet you are searching for, most have links with shelters and rescue organizations and even have pictures of most of the animals available for adoption. There are links to breeders and official breed sites.

My beloved little dog died in early December and I adopted a "rescue" on December 21....he has really, really blessed my life.

Happy hunting for you and your family!

Troubledwine,

Like Kit, I am in favor of anyone leaving twi for whatever reason.

The last year that Brad and Chris were on staff at hq Brad refused to play the corporate game on some level, angered rosie and Donna, was stripped of his Trustee Cabinet crown and demoted down to simple department coordinator of personnel. That is a fairly routine manner of handling things in rosie's world....I can name a handful of top ranking former twi managers whose paths to freedom from twi started with that very same step. I am still hoping that John Reynolds will take advantage of that.

It was rumored about the OSC that rosie and donna made a visit to Chris's office and told her to get her husband IN LINE, the discussion could be heard in the hallway. Next thing anyone knew......they had a field assignment. This is what happened with the Lally's as well.

I haven't spoken to Brad and Chris in years but I worked with Brad and knew him fairly well.....buying a house would not have been issue enough for him if he was still "hard on" for twi.

His sister Lisa and her husband Ed live in Minster OH....if that helps.

ROR

This is creepy, only goes to show that Chris Geer and his novel POP were only the first in a long line of "speeches from the dead" attributed to VP Wierwille.

For God's sake, let vpw be dead, and those of us still living, live without the constant ghosts!

Radar

The Clapps and Cindy Miller are involved with CFF, you may be able to find them that way. Their website is CFFM.ORG

Radar

Okay, this may come as a shock to some of us BUT, twi has been subliminally teaching THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS!

Now, I know that the official twi doctrine is that this type of thinking (the end justifies the means) is completely off the word and is un-godly (Lifestyle of a Believer anyone?), however that is their teaching in practice if not in doctrine.

This is their method of dealing with everything. What is good for twi is good for twi, screw the rest of the world, screw their own followers, screw THE TRUTH.

ROR

Funny thing about beautiful lingerie and supermodels like this....

I haven't seen ANY of them hanging out with middle class, middle aged, balding, beer drinking men....

What's up with them? Why is it they choose to frolic with guys like Harry Connick Jr. (yum-yum) and rock and roll stars? Gotta hand it to them, if they do hang out with miserable looking guys...at least they are RICH!

ROR