revvel

THE HORSEMEN OF REVELATION The Four Horsemen—released with the opening of the first four seals—precede the descent of Christ in the clouds to save the church (the sixth seal). Who are Four Horsemen? Just as the Book of Revelation expounds upon the relative nature of what the prophets and apostles prophesied about “the day of the Lord,” the prophets and apostles help us to understand the prophecies found in Revelation. In the case of this post, it is the prophet Zechariah who enables us to make a definitive statement about the Four Horsemen—and about the two witnesses of Revelation 11. Who is the Fifth Horseman? Christ. INTRODUCTION Just as John the Baptist was of divine origin sent to fulfill a divine purpose before the first coming of Christ to Israel… And just as the two witnesses are of divine origin sent to fulfill a divine purpose before the second coming of Christ to Israel… The Four Horsemen are of divine origin sent to fulfill a divine purpose before the arrival of Christ to save the church. THE FIRST COMING OF THE MESSIAH: JOHN THE BAPTIST God sent John the Baptist to precede the Messiah’s first coming to Israel. What was his role in preparing the way for the Messiah? A voice of one [John] calling in the desert, “Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.” (Matt. 3:3) I [John] baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. (Matt. 3:11) I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel. (John 1:31) Just as God prepared the world for the first coming of the Messiah to Israel, God shall prepare the world for the second coming of the Messiah to Israel. Different times demand different roles for those sent by God. Whereas divine blessing was upon the Earth via John the Baptist to prepare the way for the salvation of all bloodlines, divine judgment shall be upon the Earth via the two witnesses and the Four Horsemen to prepare the way for the salvation of Israel and the salvation of the church, respectively. THE TWO WITNESSES God shall send two witnesses to precede the Messiah’s second coming to Israel. What is their role in preparing the way for the Messiah? And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (Rev. 11:3-6 kjv) The two witnesses shall speak the Word of God and bring God’s righteous judgment upon the unrighteous. Who are the two witnesses? God told us, through an angel who spoke to Zechariah: And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep, And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. . . . Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. (Zech. 4:1-3, 11-14 kjv) The two witnesses “are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.” THE FOUR HORSEMEN The vision that follows sets the stage for those things that must be hereafter; it is a vision that immediately precedes the release of the Four Horsemen. And I [John] saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (Rev. 5:1-5 kjv) Christ’s vision to John is drawing our attention to where? Heaven. It is the King of Kings who opens the seals in Heaven, and with the opening of the first four seals, the Four Horsemen are released. If the Four Horsemen are released prior to the salvation of the church (the sixth seal), then are they released during the time of wrath, or grace? Grace. Wrath doesn’t begin until after the church is gathered. Therefore, the Four Horsemen shall fulfill their role… simultaneous to us fulfilling our individual roles as members of the body of Christ… during the age of grace. And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts [living creatures] saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast [living creature] say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: to and power was given him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast [living creature] say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast [living creature] say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell [Greek: Hades: the grave] followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. (Rev. 6:1-8 kjv) Who are the Four Horsemen? There is no need to project our imagination onto the Scriptures and come up with an interpretation based on our own modern times and culture, for God already gave us the correct answer 2500 years ago by way of the same prophet who spoke to us about the “two anointed ones”: Zechariah. And I [Zechariah] turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth. The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country. And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth. Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country. (Zech. 6:1-8) Who are the Four Horsemen? “The four spirits of the heavens.” The parallels between the two witnesses and the Four Horsemen are unmistakable: they bring righteous judgment to the Earth. Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that it is just a coincidence that Zechariah and John both saw a vision of the “two olive trees” (the “two anointed ones”/the “two witnesses”), and that it is just a coincidence that the same prophet, Zechariah, saw a vision of “the four spirits of the heavens” that appeared as four separate chariots with horses and John saw a vision of four separate horses? What are we to learn from the visions given to Zechariah and John? The angel said to Zechariah, “Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.” The word “quieted” means to “give comfort” and “(cause to…) rest.” If the horsemen bring comfort to an angel of God, and bring judgment to the unrighteous, then it is evident that the horsemen bring comfort to the righteous and discomfort to the unrighteous. THE FIFTH HORSEMAN: CHRIST: THE SECOND COMING TO ISRAEL The divine judgment brought to Earth by the Four Horsemen foreshadows the divine judgment brought to Earth by the Fifth Horseman: Christ. I [John] saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. [Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints (Rev. 19:8).] Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, “so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great.” Then I saw the beast [the Antichrist] and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. (Rev. 19:11–21) See, the Lord is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (Isa. 66:15) This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. (2 Thess. 1:7-10) Whereas the Four Horsemen mark the beginning of the end of all that has been prophesied about the church and Israel, the Messiah riding on his white horse will descend to Earth along with us, the church, following on white horses, and Christ will fulfill the promises found in the covenant with Israel—seven years after the seventh seal opens. It is the fulfillment of Gabriel’s revelation to Daniel, when the Antichrist shall be destroyed: He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one “seven” [seven years]. In the middle of the “seven” he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him [the Antichrist]. (Dan. 9:27) The “end that is decreed” shall be “poured out” on the Antichrist at the end of the seven-year prophecy—which commences exactly where Christ marked it: “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3.5 years).” In the middle of this seven-year prophecy, the Antichrist will put an end to sacrifice and offering and will kill the prophets, and then the Antichrist shall reign for 3.5 years after committing murder—only to see his reign end by way of the Fifth Horseman: Christ. Next: The Significance of the Four Horsemen. God bless. revvel

Before moving on with the Scriptures, I feel it is necessary to speak with two of our guests: dancing and sirguessalot. dancing, Even though you have a chronic need to rely on your disagreeable manner to interact with us, the fact remains you are here… which means you are reading the Scriptures… and that’s good. For the sake of the truth, though, I feel I must address another one of your accusations… that I am using incorrect terminology by using the word “return.” We are talking about Christ and the Parousia, which is defined as, “coming, return, advent, presence, being present, and arrival.” The other Greek word translated as “coming” is Apokalupsis, which means, “appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.” Together, Apokalupsis and Parousia provide us with the prophetic picture of what shall be; the definitions of these words are in perfect harmony with the Scriptures that speak to the subject: It is the arrival of the personal presence of Christ, returning from Heaven, which is the advent, which is his coming into the world, and how Christ’s glory shall be revealed when he appears in the clouds to transform the church and later when he rescues Israel. revvel sirguessalot, What can I say? Did I walk into one of your threads and launch a personal assault on one of your guests? No… Yet, you felt the liberty to attack one of my guests? Do you honestly believe I have any interest in your opinion about anyone on this thread? sirguessalot… You apologized: "sorry rev, this is just getting old" I accept your apology. If you apologize to Allan and the other guests following this thread that would mean much to me. Now… I feel it is appropriate that we return to this question: If the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah turned out to be about the literal, personal presence of Jesus the Christ, then is it logical, or illogical, to believe that the prophecies about the second coming of the Messiah will turn out to be about the literal, personal presence of Jesus the Christ? I first posed this question to you back on Apr 13 2006, 06:24 PM … You responded on Apr 13 2006, 08:13 PM by saying this: "so...i hope you dont mind if i dont answer the rest of your questions ...though i still will, if you wish" You offered us no indication that the question is unanswerable. In fact, you were prepared to answer it. Now… a few weeks later, the question becomes unanswerable? Now… you claim you didn’t respond to it in April because it is “too incomplete to be logical or answerable”? Your response: Jun 16 2006, 03:24 AM "neither...and the reason i did not answer this before, is because the question is too incomplete to be logical or answerable" I decided to run this question by an editor and a professor… Both found no fault with the integrity of the question. The editor said the question is complete and quite answerable… and felt your response is an indication that you didn't want to answer the question. Which, coincidently, is precisely the impression you gave us in your first post: the question is complete and quite answerable… You simply chose not to answer it. Relative to the question, I have two words for your consideration: Apokalupsis and Parousia. There is no scriptural justification to deny the literal definitions of the words and there is no scriptural justification to deny the literal parallels to the actual prophecies given. Apokalupsis and Parousia speak of the second part of a unified prophecy. I am born again because I believed literally… By the grace of God, I have witnessed the fulfillment of prophecy already… If a literal rendering of what is literally stated brought about the fulfillment of the first part of the prophecy (being filled with the Holy Spirit), then is it logical, or illogical to pursue the same path (a literal rendering of what is literally stated) regarding the second part of the prophecy (Christ's descent from Heaven)? If you chose a different approach to the Scriptures, you can share your justification for doing so with Christ when you stand before him. revvel THE CELESTIAL SIGNS: MATTHEW, PETER, JOHN, ISAIAH, AND JOEL The celestial signs that mark Christ’s arrival for the church are similar to the signs that mark Christ’s arrival for Israel—but they are not identical. We can see these two, separate prophecies by looking at one prophet: Joel. SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO THE CHURCH And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved; . . . SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO ISRAEL for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, among the survivors whom the Lord calls. In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land. . . . Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack. Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, “I am strong!” Come quickly, all you nations from every side, and assemble there. Bring down your warriors [includes the church], O Lord! Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side. Swing the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, trample the grapes, for the winepress is full and the vats overflow—so great is their wickedness! Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine. The Lord will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the Lord will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel. Then you will know that I, the Lord your God, dwell in Zion, my holy hill. Jerusalem will be holy; never again will foreigners invade her. (Joel 2:28-32; 3:1, 2, 9-17) What is a primary difference between the celestial signs that mark Christ’s arrival for the church and Israel? The moon. When Christ arrives in the clouds for the church, the moon will turn “blood red.” The blood-red moon is an omen that judgment is about to befall the Earth. When Christ returns seven years later for Israel, the “moon will be darkened.” “Blood red” means “blood red.” “Darkened” means “darkened.” When Christ descends for us, the church, we will see a darkened sky but we will see the moon turn blood red. This is the revelation Christ gave to Peter and John. SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO THE CHURCH I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth. (Rev. 6:12, 13) In contrast, when Christ descends for Israel, those left on the Earth will see a darkened sky—but not a blood-red moon, a darkened moon. It is against this darkness of space, that those on the planet will see Christ descend from Heaven (with his armies, his saints (the church), his warriors). This is the revelation Christ gave to Matthew. SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO ISRAEL Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. (Matt. 24:29) Christ’s final revelation to John expounds upon these two prophecies: salvation exclusive to the church is marked at the sixth seal, and salvation exclusive to Israel is marked at chapter 19—when Christ descends from Heaven with us, the saints. What are the events that will come to pass between the salvation of the church and the salvation of Israel? How much time will elapse between the two salvations? Christ told us… in the revelation he gave to Matthew and John. What are the events that precede the salvation of Israel and how much time is marked? CHRIST’S REVELATION TO MATTHEW “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.” (Matt. 24:15-23) In the midst of Christ’s revelation to Matthew, Christ referenced Daniel. Why did Christ quote Daniel? What are we to learn from this? What Christ referenced from Daniel is in bold: He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one “seven” [seven years]. In the middle of the “seven” he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him [the Antichrist]. (Dan. 9:27) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [Daniel’s people: Israel]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people [israel] shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan. 12:1 KJV) Why did Christ quote Daniel in the context of Israel’s salvation? The “abomination that causes desolation” is spoken of in the context of the seven-year prophecy: “one seven.” It is the final seven years of prophecy for Daniel’s people, known also as the seventieth “seven.” CHRIST’S REVELATION TO JOHN Did Christ identify a seven-year prophecy in the revelation he gave to John? Yes. Does this seven-year prophecy occur during the seventh seal? Yes. Where in Revelation did Christ mark the start of the seven-year prophecy? And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. (Rev. 11:3-7) What happens at the midpoint of the seven-year prophecy? Christ told us: the Antichrist shall kill God’s prophets. It is then that Antichrist “is given a [big] mouth”: The beast [the Antichrist] was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. . . . Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. (Rev. 13:5, 11) John’s seven-year prophecy that precedes Israel’s salvation has yet to be fulfilled. Daniel’s seven-year prophecy that precedes Israel’s salvation has yet to be fulfilled. Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that it is just a coincidence that Christ referenced Daniel’s seven-year prophecy and spoke of a seven-year prophecy in Revelation, and that it is just a coincidence that Daniel’s prophecy speaks of events that shall lead up to Israel’s salvation and the destruction of the Antichrist, and John’s prophecy speaks of events that shall lead up to Israel’s salvation and the destruction of the Antichrist? Why else would Christ mark a seven-year prophecy between the salvation of the church and the salvation of Israel, unless there is a seven-year prophecy between the salvation of the church and the salvation of Israel? THE HARMONY BETWEEN THE PROPHETS AND APOSTLES Daniel and John are in agreement about the seven-year prophecy—and no one in the Bible disagrees with them. Joel, Peter, and John prophesied of the moon turning blood red when the church is saved, and Joel and Matthew prophesied of the moon turning dark when Israel is saved—and no one in Bible disagrees with them. Next: The First Four Seals: The Four Horsemen. God bless. revvel

dancing, What can I say? You quoted a thread and screen name that has my response documented... My response to skypair (and everyone else who posted at that time) is found on the following post: The "Signless" Return: Dogma - 3/27/2006 11:35:28 AM With regard to your accusation, I would like to say this: No one on any other board indicated I failed to respond to them. Many times when I responded, the person simply didn't respond back (no debate on the issue followed). Why not mention that there are those in the body of Christ who responded back favorably... that they were blessed by the Scriptures? Why not quote those responses? Enough said on this matter... It is plainly obvious you are seeking to find fault with me personally. You have disagreed with me and others in a disagreeable manner. What do you hope to gain by repeating the same message? We get it... You disagree... Give it a rest... With all due respect... Why not start your own thread about whatever it is you believe? Perhaps you will find others who agree with you. revvel

dancing/CM/Clay, On June 3, you posted this: "Also why do you insist on not answering questions that really challenge the docrtrine on any of the boards I posted about what you are presenting." Are you telling us that you cannot support your accusation? In the sight of God, be honest: Cut and paste the questions that went unanswered… Or Acknowledge that there is nothing to paste. Be sure to include the dates of the postings, and the screen names of those who posed these questions, so we can have a dialogue with them. Please spare us... No more excuses... revvel

Hello sirguessalot, Welcome back. I know where you are coming from: You are calling upon “doubt” to be used as a tool to provoke thought. No question, doubt has its place in the mind of man to break down walls of traditional thinking—but so does logic and so does love. That is to say this: Love and logic are powerful motivators. Now, I will respond to your questions: “how possible is it that your kind of theory regarding the nature of the “return of Christ” is most completely wrong?” Perhaps the best way I know to respond, is to revisit the question I posed to you earlier on this thread. Perhaps now is the time for you to share your thoughts on it: If the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah turned out to be about the literal, personal presence of Jesus the Christ, then is it logical, or illogical, to believe that the prophecies about the second coming of the Messiah will turn out to be about the literal, personal presence of Jesus the Christ? Next question: “how possible is it that you are very wrong about the old books you are reading?” There is a spiritual aspect to the writings in the old books that impacts the heart of man. sirguessalot… “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” (2 Tim. 1:7 kjv) This “spirit,” which is also referred to as “Christ in you,” introduces divine love that is felt, it is not of this world, and no human doubt can erase. The Scriptures spoke of love, and that is what the “spirit” produces. In other words, reality reflects the text. For me, and many others following this thread, these old words are not just old words, but they are alive within us. sirguessalot… Did you ever want to be in love? Have you ever been in love? How did you know it? (Rhetorical questions.) There is something we learn from the old books and personally know: “Christ in you” means divine love—the divine nature—and it is directly connected to the future. How? The promised “spirit” is the first part of a two-part prophecy. This “spirit” is also our “hope of [future] glory,” because it is the “seed” which will give “birth” to the next life. If the promised “spirit” is given to us now (which means the first part of the prophecy is fulfilled as given), then is it logical, or illogical, to believe that the second part of the promise (future glory) will be fulfilled as given? Moral of the story: The Creator validated his Words (to us) with the “spirit.” Additionally, the validation is made known by the divine sign: speaking in divine tongues. No doubt can erase divine love and no doubt can erase the divine sign. Next question: “is it possible that most all doomsday/rapture beliefs are actually instigating even more hell on earth?” [T]he love of money is the root of all evil. (1 Tim. 6:10) If evil is increasing…the love of money is increasing. Also, consider for a moment, sirguessalot, that you are filled with divine love, and you believe the prophecy that you will be transformed immortal. Why, then, would you feel the need to bring more “hell” upon the planet? “Extrapolate”… Next question: “is it possible that most of the scriptures are talking about something quite radically different than you realize?” I believe—and I have good reason to believe—what the angel said to John: “These words are trustworthy and true” (Rev. 22:6). If the Scriptures say that Jesus was born in the Holy Land, then Jesus was born in the Holy Land. Reality reflects the text… The record that Jesus lived in the Holy Land is not disputed. Reputable historians agree that the story of this “prophet” was not just a legend; historical writings support the claims made about him. Hence, it is not a matter of whether Jesus lived, but rather, was he the Son of God? sirguessalot… What do you believe about Jesus? If the “words are trustworthy and true” (and literal) about the first coming of Christ, and the “words are trustworthy and true” (and literal) about divine love and the “spirit” now, then reality reflects the text. Nothing radically different… Perhaps you’ve heard all this stuff about the old books before… Suggestion… What about starting with what is scientifically verifiable? This is where I am coming from: If the Creator authored the Bible, he also authored life, the Earth, and the heavens. Why not read the Prologue of The Prophecy? Perhaps you would be intrigued by what scientists are saying about ancient fossils, Middle-East archaeology, and the heavens. Just go to my Web site, www.thetimeline.org and download the book. If the Scriptures say that King David reigned in the Holy Land, then King David reigned in the Holy Land. History (reality) is not different from the text. For years, scholars dismissed the idea of King David, claiming it was a Jewish spin on history. But with the turn of a shovel in 1994, the skeptical scholars had to rethink their doubt. Take a look at the subject of the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Prologue; it speaks to the authenticity of what we read today. In other words, nothing radically different was found. I have a question for you, which is based in the philosophical: What do you stand for? Perhaps you could answer this question in the following context: “If we don’t stand for something, we will fall for anything.” Finally, let me ask, are you reading the Scriptures presented on this thread? If so, is it that you just doubt their true meaning? I look forward to hearing from you on the questions I posed above. God bless. revvel

Hello CWF, In answer to your question about time, take a look at the Web site homepage. Read “Israel and Prophecy” and then read chapters 3 and 4 of The Prophecy. God bless. revvel

Hello CWF, If you did not have an honest desire to search out the truth you wouldn't be here... That said... back to your earlier post... I know where you are coming from: You feel that those in white robes standing before the throne of Heaven are not in the church of God… I understand why you feel that way. In order to respond, I would like to draw upon the revelation given to Peter, Paul, John, and Isaiah. This is where I am coming from: Christ’s own apostles, in this case Peter and Paul, as well as the Old Testament prophet Isaiah, can help us to understand Revelation—and thereby enable us to draw a sure conclusion about those in white robes. I’d first like to establish some common ground with you… CHRIST’S REVELATION TO PETER On Pentecost, Peter spoke forth a prophecy about those “who call on the name of the Lord,” and made obvious reference to the descent of the Holy Spirit. . . Who are those filled with the Holy Spirit? Us. The church. Peter is prophesying of those who embrace Jesus as the Messiah. In essence, Peter spoke forth a prophecy about what shall come to pass for those who embrace Jesus as the Messiah. Peter’s prophecy had nothing to do with those who reject Jesus as the Messiah. CWF… You and I are in the body of Christ; we are filled with the Holy Spirit; we embrace Jesus as the Messiah; we call on the name of the Lord, and we shall be “saved” when the sun turns black and the moon turns blood red. Christ’s revelation on Pentecost speaks of salvation exclusive to the church. What is the importance of Christ’s revelation on Pentecost? How else can we look at Christ’s revelation to Paul and John, but that it expounds upon what we first heard by way of Peter? Every prophecy about the salvation of the church can only build upon the prophecy our Lord gave us on the first day of the church. If our Lord gave revelation on Pentecost that the church will “saved,” and that it will come to pass in conjunction with specific celestial signs, then shouldn’t we allow this revelation to help us understand all prophecies pertaining to the salvation of the church—including those found in Revelation? Take a look at the next post on this subject of Christ’s descent for the church. It is revelation given to Paul. Like Peter, Paul can help us to understand Revelation. God bless. revvel CHRIST’S REVELATION TO PAUL Without question, Paul’s prophecy in Thessalonians (1 Thess. 4:16, 17) is central to our understanding of Christ’s descent in the clouds, but it is also true that Christ’s revelation given to the Corinthians added additional information regarding this descent—which includes unmistakable revelation that the glory of our Lord will be revealed when he descends in the clouds for us. Paul opened his letter to the church speaking of the glorious hope of Christ’s arrival for the church: I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. For in him you have been enriched in every way—in all your speaking and in all your knowledge—because our testimony about Christ was confirmed in you. Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed [Greek: Apokalupsis]. He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor. 1:4-8) We as Christ’s church await the arrival of our Lord to transform and transport us off the planet. It is “the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Apokalupsis means, “appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.” This will be the celestial reality for the world to see: Christ’s glory will be revealed when he descends in the clouds to transform the church. Ironic… The very apostle our own church looks to, Paul, to “prove” the “signless” theory states the complete opposite. The glory of Christ being revealed in the clouds is anything but “signless.” Paul closed the same letter by expounding upon this hope of Christ’s arrival for the church: But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. (1 Cor. 15:20-23) Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” (1 Cor. 15:51-54) When Paul prophesied, “Death has been swallowed up in victory,” he quoted Isaiah: “He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces” (Isa. 25:8 kjv) From Peter, Paul, and Isaiah, we know that the future salvation of the church includes the following: Celestial signs: The sun will turn black and the moon will turn blood red. Apokalupsis: Christ’s glory will be seen in the clouds. Transformation: The entire church, in the grave and alive, will be transformed. Transported: The church will ascend off the planet into the clouds/sky to be with Christ. Victory: “Death has been swallowed up in victory,” and “the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces.” These pieces of the salvation picture are unchangeable and irrefutable. This is the knowledge we take into the Book of Revelation to understand more of what our Lord revealed about our future salvation. God bless. revvel CHRIST’S REVELATION TO JOHN What is the Book of Revelation about? Christ told us… when he told John: “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter” (Rev. 1:19 kjv). What things shall be hereafter? If the future salvation of the church is one thing that shall be hereafter, then shouldn’t we expect to find the salvation of the church in Revelation? Why would Christ leave it out? If he did, Christ would be contradicting himself—which is impossible. Any thought that the future salvation of the church is not to be found in Revelation is to contradict Christ. If we are to believe Christ, then it is not a matter of if the salvation of the church is in Revelation, but where. If our Lord gave us divine authority to proclaim to his church we shall be saved when the sun turns black and the moon turns blood red, then why couldn’t we take that same authority into Revelation and—with absolute, divine confidence—mark the salvation of the church to the same solar and lunar signs? If our Lord gave us the divine authority to proclaim to his church that we will see the glory of our Lord when he descends in the clouds for us, then why couldn’t we take that same authority into Revelation and—with absolute, divine confidence—mark the salvation of the church to the same glory revealed? In other words, why shouldn’t we allow Peter and Paul to help us identify where John prophesied of the future salvation of the church? Where did Christ reveal that the same celestial signs would appear? The sixth seal: “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood” (Rev. 6:12 kjv). Did Christ reveal that his glory would be seen? Yes: “[Christ] is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him” (Rev. 1:7). Where did Christ reveal that his glory would be seen? The sixth seal: “[H]ide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16 kjv). Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that it is just a coincidence that Peter and John prophesied of the same celestial signs, and it is just a coincidence that Paul and John prophesied that the glory of Christ shall be revealed, and it is just a coincidence that the signs and the glory of Christ are both made known when the sixth seal opens? If we are to believe Christ’s revelation to Peter and Paul, then we as Christ’s church have irrefutable, divine authority to mark the future salvation of the church at the sixth seal. What will happen after the sun turns black and the moon turns blood red? “The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up.” (Rev. 6:14) What’s in the sky? Paul told us: the church is gathered in the clouds. Where do we go from there? Heaven. “The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up.” Of the three visions given by Christ, which group is in Heaven? The group with their robes washed white. What shall this group proclaim? “SALVATION BELONGS TO OUR GOD, WHO SITS ON THE THRONE, AND TO THE LAMB!!” (REV. 7:10) SALVATION… BELONGS TO… OUR GOD… AND UNTO THE LAMB!! This group is proclaiming the source of their salvation: God and the Lamb. How did this salvation happen? These… have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 6:14 kjv) How many works of man are in the blood of the Lamb? There are no works of man in the blood of the Lamb. The blood of the Lamb is the work of Christ—not man. Our decision to make Jesus our Lord is how we cleanse our robes with the blood of the Lamb. ut ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Cor. 6:11 kjv) For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:45 kjv) The ransom is the blood of Christ. It’s that blood, the ransom, which cleanses our robes. It is salvation unto the Lamb. Who can be cleansed by the blood of the Lamb? All nations… After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands. (Rev. 7:9 kjv) Who are these people in white robes standing in front of? The Lamb. After the church is gathered in the clouds, who will the church will ever be with? The Lamb. When the church is transformed, what prophecy will come to pass? “He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces” (Isa. 25:8 kjv). What did Christ reveal about those in white robes? “For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes” (Rev. 7:17 kjv). “God shall wipe away all tears” from the eyes of those who shall witness “death swallowed up in victory.” Who will witness death swallowed up in victory? The church. Even with all these references given to us by Christ, our Lord was not finished revealing to us that this vision applies to us. Take a look at the two questions that are asked: And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:13, 14 kjv) Why would Christ reveal to us that these questions shall be asked? “What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?” In other words, this group of people in white robes is a MYSTERY!! How is it possible that we as Christ’s church could have overlooked this? The CHURCH is the MYSTERY!! Why is this mysterious group of people present in Heaven? The blood of the Lamb!! This is us… those who embrace Jesus as the Messiah… transformed immortal… This is our cry of salvation in Heaven when we stand before our Lord: “SALVATION BELONGS TO OUR GOD, WHO SITS ON THE THRONE, AND TO THE LAMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” God bless. revvel

Hello dancing/CM/Clay, On June 3, you posted this: "Also why do you insist on not answering questions that really challenge the docrtrine on any of the boards I posted about what you are presenting." I still haven't seen these questions that "challenge the doctrine." I am asking you to be honest about this. That's all. Cut and paste the questions you personally posted from the "boards" here, (questions that you claim I failed to answer).... or acknowledge that there is nothing to paste. revvel

Hello CWF, Thanks for looking at the sixth seal. I'll have my response in the near future. God bless. revvel

Hello dancing, Honestly, I couldn't help but notice you didn't include in your response the "questions." On June 3, you posted this: "Also why do you insist on not answering questions that really challenge the docrtrine on any of the boards I posted about what you are presenting." I would like to see the questions that I have not yet answered that “challenge the doctrine” on the “boards” where you posted. Post the questions right here, and let me know the original posting place and date. I’d like to go to whatever site(s) you are referring to and see what you are saying. I will gladly address your questions right here at the café. I don’t recall seeing your screen name, “dancing,” anywhere but here. Are you posting under a different name? If so, what is it? God bless. revvel

Hello dancing, You have made it clear that you have a different perspective. That’s fine… This is a forum… People are going to agree and disagree all day long… This is a place to provoke thought through intelligent debate. To begin… Yes… I am posting on other sites. To my knowledge, I have addressed every question I have received. I address people the same way I do here: respect anyone who posts, and try to respond as soon as possible, with Scripture. This thread is about “the day of the Lord”: the divine harmony of divine revelation from the Gospel of Matthew to the Book of Revelation, and the parallel prophecies in the Old Testament. This thread is not about me; it is about Christ and divine revelation. Honestly, I do not know what you are referring to with regard to your “questions” that I have not answered. The only questions that I know you posed are in this forum, and I will now answer them. I only asked questions of you in order to better respond to you as an individual. I would like to see the questions that I have not yet answered that “challenge the doctrine” on the “boards” where you posted. Post the questions right here, and let me know the original posting place and date. I’d like to go to whatever site(s) you are referring to and see what you are saying. I will gladly address your questions right here at the café. Frankly, I am looking forward to our discussion. I don’t recall seeing your screen name, “dancing,” anywhere but here. Are you posting under a different name? If so, what is it? Why am I posting here? Who do I work for? In 2004 I published a book titled, The Prophecy. I also launched a Web site: www.thetimeline.org. The book is published on the site and can be read by anyone, anytime, without charge. There are additional articles that are parallel to the book. The Prologue of the book speaks of cutting-edge scientific evidence: ancient fossils, Middle-East archaeology (which is also found in chapter 2), and astronomical evidence. It allows the reader to see that scientists and the Bible can speak with one voice. From the Prologue, the book moves into life… salvation in this life through the Messiah, and the future salvation that will follow when Christ descends in the clouds to transform his church—which ushers in the next life. Additionally, the book goes back in time to the days when Lucifer’s self-serving lust for power and worship caused him to fall from grace—and the response that followed: the prophecy of a Messiah. This book is self-published. I paid for its printing. Why did I write it? I was inspired to do so. You can read about it in the book. Who do I work for? Christ: my Lord and Savior. Why am I posting here? I want to. In the case of this thread, it is about being delivered from the lie of the “signless” theory of Christ’s descent for the church. Who is feeding me the “doctrine” on this thread? Matthew, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, Joel, Isaiah, Daniel… You know them: the prophets and the apostles. Why do I post? I am compelled to do it. How could I not? I love shedding divine light on Satan’s lies. Wouldn’t Christ want his own church to recognize that his descent to transform us will follow specific solar and lunar signs? Wouldn’t Christ want his own church to know that his glory will be revealed to the world when he descends in the clouds for us? Why else would he give us this revelation unless he wanted made known? I look forward to hearing from you. God bless. revvel

Hello dancing, Interesting post. Before I directly respond, I’d like to know if you believe what Christ said to Nicodemus: Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.” In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!” “Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. “Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’” (John 3:1-7) dancing… Do you believe Christ… that we must be born again? Are you born again? If you are in the body of Christ... curious... what were you taught about Christ’s descent for the church? “Signless” event? After the wrath? What do you believe today about Christ’s return in the clouds for the church? I look forward to hearing from you. God bless. revvel

Hello CWF and everyone following this, This post is about Christ's final revelation to John... Is it possible that Christ’s final revelation to John ends all debate regarding the chronological sequence of events that pertain to “the day of the Lord”? Is it possible that all pieces of the end-time prophetic puzzle given throughout the Old and New Testaments are in agreement with the Revelation framework? Why else would Christ number the prophecies but to show us the chronological order of end-time events? Christ’s final revelation to John marks the last book of the Bible, but it is the first place we look to understand how all pieces of the puzzle—given by both prophets and apostles—fit together. In other words, Revelation explains the relative nature of what the prophets said and what the apostles said about “the day of the Lord.” Therefore, Christ’s final revelation to us is the key that unlocks the entire Bible regarding “the day of the Lord.” There are questions fundamental to “the day of the Lord” that we as Christ’s church cannot afford to avoid… If Christ’s revelation to John places the church in Heaven after the sixth seal opens, then how can any prophet or apostle contradict this? If Christ’s revelation places the church in Heaven after the sixth seal opens, then how can the church be on the Earth during the wrath of the seventh seal? On Pentecost, Christ’s revelation said the church will be “saved.” What does it mean that we as the church will be “saved”? To begin, Peter’s prophecy on Pentecost applies only to those who follow the New Covenant. Christ shall descend from Heaven for the followers of the New Covenant when the sun turns black and the moon turns blood red. According to Christ’s revelation to John, it is the time of the sixth seal. THE SIXTH SEAL: SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO THE CHURCH John: Rev. 6:12-14 Peter: Acts 2:20, 21: “The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” According to Christ’s revelation, what does it mean that we as the church will be “saved”? Christ’s revelation given to us after he ascended to Heaven revealed the fullness of our salvation. Paul: 1 Thess. 1:10; 5:9 Paul: Rom. 5:9: “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” Paul: 1 Thess. 4:15-17: According to the Lord’s own word. . . [T]he Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. (1 Thess. 4:15-17) “According to the Lord’s own word” … Who among us in the body of Christ believes that the transformation of the church is the salvation of the church--and that it is “according to the Lord’s own word”? The sixth seal marks the resurrection of the followers of the New Covenant. How else can all of Christ’s church stand before the throne of Heaven unless the dead in Christ were first resurrected? After the church is gathered in the clouds/sky, what happens next? John: Rev. 7:9-17 Look at our cry of triumph… This is our cry of salvation in Heaven when we are with our Lord: “SALVATION BELONGS TO OUR GOD, WHO SITS ON THE THRONE, AND TO THE LAMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” (REV. 7:10) That’s us. This is what we as Christ’s church will proclaim when we stand before the throne of Heaven. This is what Christ meant on Pentecost when he said we will be “saved.” After Christ descends from Heaven to transform and transport the church, then comes the seventh seal. It is the time of wrath foretold by the prophets and apostles. Salvation exclusive to Israel will not come to pass for another seven years. At the end of the seven years, the Jews who are still “standing” will be rescued from the grip of the Antichrist at the battle of Armageddon when the Lord roars from Zion. THE SEVENTH SEAL: THE WRATH: SEVEN YEARS Christ’s revelation to John: Rev. 8 – 18. This is the time of “Jacob’s trouble”—not the church’s trouble. How can the church get into trouble? It’s in Heaven. During the “wrath,” the world shall witness three and a half years of God’s prophets and then three and a half years of Satan’s prophets: And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev. 11:3) The beast [the Antichrist] was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. . . . Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. (Rev. 13:5, 11) This seven-year prophecy of John was first given by the prophet Daniel. Known as the seventieth “seven,” this is the final seven years of prophecy decreed for Daniel’s people, which is Israel (Dan. 9:24). While in the Holy Land, Christ himself foretold of this future time: Matthew: 24:21-28. From Heaven, Christ gave revelation to Paul about this time: 2 Thess. 2:3, 4, 9-12. THE SEVENTH SEAL: SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO ISRAEL John: Rev. 19:11-21 Paul: 2 Thess. 1:7-9; 2:8 Jude: 14, 15 Matthew: 24:29-31 Luke: 17:22-37 Isaiah: 66:15, 16 Joel: 2:32b, 3:1-16 Zech.: 14:3-5 At the end of the seventieth “seven,” Christ shall descend from Heaven again, this time to save Israel—and Christ shall do so with his church. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. . . . Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints. (Rev. 19:14, 8) We are the saints, and after being in Heaven for seven years, we shall descend from Heaven with our Lord to destroy the Antichrist and rescue Israel. Whereas the sixth seal marks the resurrection of the followers of the New Covenant, the seventh seal marks the resurrection of the followers of Old Covenant (Dan. 12:1, 2)—as well as those martyred under the beast. Finally… …Christ's church is fractured along so many different lines. Imagine for a moment that we all embrace Christ’s final revelation to John: the church is in Heaven after the sixth seal opens. If we as Christ’s church believe Christ’s revelation, we could finally speak with one voice—Christ’s voice—on the subject of our own future “salvation.” God bless. revvel

Hello again, On the first day of the church, Peter also referred to the sun turning dark and the moon turning blood red. Why? This is what Peter quoted from Joel: “The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood…. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Why did Peter quote this from Joel’s prophecy? What is the point that Peter is making? Who are those who call on the name of the Lord? Why else would Peter quote Joel on the first day of the church unless it applied to church? Could it be that through Peter, Christ revealed to the “world” Heaven’s wisdom hidden within Joel’s prophecy of “the day of the Lord”? What follows is Joel’s prophecy about “the day of the Lord.” What is in bold is what Peter declared on Pentecost. JOEL: The day of the Lord The Lord thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty are those who obey his command. The day of the Lord is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it?. . . Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am the Lord your God, and that there is no other; never again will my people be shamed. “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, among the survivors whom the Lord calls. “In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land. . . . . Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack. Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, “I am strong!” Come quickly, all you nations from every side, and assemble there. Bring down your warriors, O Lord! “Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side. Swing the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, trample the grapes, for the winepress is full and the vats overflow—so great is their wickedness!” Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine. THE LORD WILL ROAR FROM ZION AND THUNDER FROM JERUSALEM; THE EARTH AND THE SKY WILL TREMBLE. BUT THE LORD WILL BE A REFUGE FOR HIS PEOPLE, A STRONGHOLD FOR THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL. “Then you will know that I, the Lord your God, dwell in Zion, my holy hill. Jerusalem will be holy; never again will foreigners invade her. (Joel 2:11, 27-32; 3:1, 2, 9-17) Why did Peter quote what he quoted? Could it be that Peter revealed the wisdom hidden within Joel’s prophecy: there are two separate prophecies that shall be fulfilled at two different times for two different groups of people? The Church: The Sixth Seal: The first arrival of Christ: “And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Seven years after Christ ascends to Heaven with the church… Israel: The Seventh Seal: The second arrival of Christ: “The Lord will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the Lord will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel.” Could it be that there is a dual prophecy contained in “the day of the Lord,” meaning, there are prophecies throughout the entire Bible about “the day of the Lord” that apply exclusively to the church and prophecies about “the day of the Lord” that apply exclusively to Israel? Allow yourself to consider this: Satan wants the church to ignore Peter’s prophecy; Satan wants the church to read Joel’s prophecy as if Peter never said anything on Pentecost. The Lord thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty are those who obey his command. The day of the Lord is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it?. . . Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am the Lord your God, and that there is no other; never again will my people be shamed. “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, among the survivors whom the Lord calls. “In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land. . . . . Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack. Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, “I am strong!” Come quickly, all you nations from every side, and assemble there. Bring down your warriors, O Lord! “Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side. Swing the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, trample the grapes, for the winepress is full and the vats overflow—so great is their wickedness!” Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine. THE LORD WILL ROAR FROM ZION AND THUNDER FROM JERUSALEM; THE EARTH AND THE SKY WILL TREMBLE. BUT THE LORD WILL BE A REFUGE FOR HIS PEOPLE, A STRONGHOLD FOR THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL. “Then you will know that I, the Lord your God, dwell in Zion, my holy hill. Jerusalem will be holy; never again will foreigners invade her. (Joel 2:11, 27-32; 3:1, 2, 9-17) Why should we as the body of Christ read this prophecy the way Satan wants it read? Why shouldn’t we read this prophecy the way Christ wants it read? On the first day of the church, Peter proclaimed God’s hidden wisdom: a unique section of Joel’s prophecy about “the day of the Lord” applied exclusively to the church—and applied exclusively to Christ’s coming for the church. It is a prophecy that once was hidden, and then was revealed. It is a prophecy within a prophecy. Why not proclaim to your Bible study group what Peter proclaimed on Pentecost? The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To everyone in the body of Christ … We call on the name of the Lord and we will be saved when the sun turns to darkness and the moon turns blood red. According to Christ’s revelation to John, it is the time of the sixth seal. This is the hidden wisdom of God: “the day of the Lord” marks a span of time that shall witness not a single, divine event, but a single, divine event for each group that God will rescue: the church and Israel. This is the dual prophecy; this is Heaven’s hidden wisdom as revealed by Christ after he ascended into Heaven. Why else did Peter quote Joel but to show us this? This revelation that Christ revealed about the church on Pentecost is nowhere to be found in the Gospels. In other words, the revelation that Christ revealed about Joel’s prophecy (from Heaven) went beyond the revelation he revealed while in the Holy Land. If anyone following this disagrees with the divine harmony Christ’s revelation given to Peter and John, then please share with me your thoughts about Peter’s prophecy… Why did Peter quote Joel on Pentecost? What is Peter telling the church on the first day of the church? I honestly would like to know your thoughts regarding Peter’s prophecy on Pentecost. God bless. revvel

Hello to everyone following this, If the New Testament is divine revelation, then every prophecy given by our Lord must be in harmony with one another—from Matthew to Revelation. If the Old Testament is divine revelation, then all prophecies about “the day of the Lord” in both Testaments are in perfect harmony with one another. I believe each Testament is divine revelation, and I have to believe that many of you reading this feel the same way. If you have been following this, you have a fairly good idea of what my interest is: to search through the divine harmony of divine revelation given by our Lord, and see the parallel prophecies given by the Old Testament prophets. What follows is revelation given by our Lord to John and Peter. In these two posts, I pose a number of questions… They are designed to provoke thought for all of us in the body of Christ… If you are inspired to do so, please share your thoughts as you see fit. You have my apologies regarding 2 Thessalonians. It will follow. I’m just not sure when. ............................................................ First, If the good news of Christ ended with the Gospels, then why didn’t Heaven end the New Testament with the Gospel of John? Why did Christ need to continue to give revelation to his apostles after he ascended to Heaven? Is it possible that Christ’s revelation given to his apostles shed additional, divine light upon end-time prophecies first given in the Old Testament and the Gospels? Why else would Christ continue to give revelation from Heaven unless he was expounding upon the good news he first gave during his earthly ministry? This additional information includes the vision of the church in Heaven—marked at the sixth seal… When the sixth seal opens, the sun will turn black and the moon will turn blood red, and this marks a dramatic, divine threshold: every human being on the planet will be impacted. Shouldn’t we as Christ’s church seek to understand what Christ is revealing to us about this time? My question is this: How can any prophecy Christ gave in the Gospels, or any prophecy in the Old Testament, contradict Christ’s own vision of the church in Heaven when the sixth seal opens (Rev. 7:9-17)? Doesn’t it make sense that we as the body of Christ, together, should honestly research why our Lord would give us this vision? Shouldn’t it be important for us to understand why our Lord numbered the visions he gave us in his final revelation to John? Why else would Christ number the visions but to show us the chronological order of end-time events? Is it possible that Christ’s final revelation pulls together all the prophets and apostles in one book, Revelation, and sets in order their prophecies that speak to “the day of the Lord”? This is where I am coming from: Not only was Satan blind to the MYSTERY (1 Cor. 2:7, 8; Eph. 3:4–6; Col. 1:27), and blind to God’s hidden wisdom regarding “Jacob” (Jacob’s trouble), Satan was blind to God’s hidden wisdom regarding “the day of the Lord.” This hidden wisdom was fully revealed by our glorified Lord after he ascended into Heaven. Central to this hidden wisdom is the vision Christ gave to John of the church in Heaven… in the Book of Revelation. Look at how John begins Revelation: The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. (Rev. 1:1-3) According to the revelation given by our Lord… What will happen to Earth’s population when the sixth seal opens, and the sun turns black and the moon turns blood red? . . . Christ’s revelation about the sixth seal gives us three separate visions about three separate groups of people… Paul revealed that Heaven sees Earth’s population as follows: “THE JEWS. . . THE GENTILES. . . THE CHURCH OF GOD” (1 Cor. 10:32 kjv). In his revelation about the sixth seal, Christ gave three separate visions of three separate groups of people with three separate fates. Is it possible that Christ gave three separate visions to describe what shall become of the three separate groups of people: the Jews, the Gentiles, and the church of God? CHRIST’S REVELATION: THE SIXTH SEAL Here is one vision given by Christ: Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000. (Rev. 7:4-8) Is Christ referring to “the Jews [israel],” “the Gentiles,” or to “the church of God”? Israel. Where is this group of people after the sixth opens? Heaven? Or Earth? This is how the vision of the 144,000 is introduced: After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” (Rev. 7:1-3) The “sea” and the “trees” are on the Earth and so is Israel. This is also seen when the wrath actually begins: “They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads” (Rev. 8:4). The 144,000 who have “the seal of God on their foreheads” shall be shielded from this harm. Without question, at the time of the sixth seal, Christ’s revelation places Israel on the Earth. Here is another vision: After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying: “Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!” Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them. Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” (Rev. 7:9-17) Is Christ referring to “the Jews [israel],” “the Gentiles,” or to “the church of God”? Which group of people washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb? The church. According to Christ, where is this group of people? Earth? Or Heaven? To everyone in the body of Christ… When we stand before our Lord in Heaven, our robes will be white because of the blood of the Lamb. Why else would Christ give us a vision of the church in Heaven after the sixth seal opens, unless the church is in Heaven after the sixth seal opens? How can we as Christ’s church—with clear conscience before our Lord—just dismiss this vision? What can we hope to gain by not embracing it? How can any theologian, any minister, any Christian, any human being successfully overturn or explain away Christ’s vision of the church standing before the throne of Heaven after the sixth seal opens? Here is another vision from the sixth seal: Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” (Rev. 6:15-17) Is Christ referring to “the Jews [israel],” “the Gentiles,” or to “the church of God”? Who are those who want to hide from Christ? Is Christ referring to the church hiding from their own Lord? Or is this vision describing those who reject Jesus as the Messiah: the Gentiles and the Jews? Doesn’t it make sense that those who reject Christ would seek to hide from Christ? This third vision is referring the Gentiles and the Jews. According to Christ, where are they? Heaven? Or Earth? Earth. So, what did our Lord show us about will happen to the three groups of people when the sixth seal opens? 1.The Gentiles and the Jews will hide throughout the Earth from the Messiah that they rejected. 2.144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel will be sealed on the Earth. 3.The church of God will be standing before the throne of Heaven. The sixth seal marks the onset of “the day of the Lord” and our Lord revealed to us what shall become of everyone when he descends in the clouds. If the visible Christ were not descending in the clouds at the opening of the sixth seal, then why would those left on Earth say, “hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb”? Whose face are they looking at when the sixth seal opens? Why shouldn’t we as the body of Christ refer to the revelation already given to John? [Christ] is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him (Rev. 1:7). If every eye will see Christ, then wouldn’t they see his “face” too? …What did Christ reveal to us regarding the signs of the sixth seal? I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. (Rev. 6:12, 13) When the sun turns black and the moon turns blood red… God will signal us that “the day of the Lord” is upon us: we as the church will rejoice, 144,000 of Israel will be sealed, and everyone else will be in a state of fear. What reason could we offer to Christ to justify not taking his revelation at face value? In other words, how can we as his church justify not believing his revelation as literally given? What did Christ’s revelation to John reveal to us? It revealed the wisdom hidden within “the day of the Lord”: a unique section of prophecy about “the day of the Lord” applied exclusively to the church—and applied exclusively to Christ’s coming for the church. When the sun turns black and the moon turns blood red… the onset of the day of the Lord is upon us. It is then that Christ shall descend from Heaven to transform and transport the church—not seven years later. Without question, “the day of the Lord” is the span of time marking Heaven’s intervention. The Old Testament prophets clearly spoke of this, but it wasn’t until Christ gave revelation to the New Testament apostles about the church that the fullness of this intervention was made known. Enter: the sixth seal. There, Christ gave us information not found anywhere else in the Bible. What should we as the body of Christ do with it? Perhaps some of you coordinate or participate in a Bible study group… Why not introduce the sixth seal as a topic for discussion? I invite anyone reading this to share his or her thoughts on the sixth seal. God bless. revvel

MOSES, ISAIAH, JEREMIAH, EZEKIEL, DANIEL, PAUL, and JOHN Prior to moving on to Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians, I would like to introduce Paul’s letter by setting the stage; it is a stage given by Jeremiah: "it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it" (Jer. 30:7 KJV). This prophecy of Jeremiah had an immediate fulfillment relative to the Babylonian captivity, and this prophecy has an ultimate fulfillment relative to the captivity under the Antichrist. God delivered the followers of the Old Covenant out of trouble when he set them free from Babylon, and God will again deliver the followers of the Old Covenant out of trouble when he sets them free from the Antichrist. Paul prophesied of this ultimate fulfillment (2 Thess. 1:7–9). Many Old Testament writings contain a dual purpose: an immediate fulfillment before the time of Christ and an ultimate fulfillment in the presence of the Christ. How do we know this? The precedent given to us by God through Moses enables us to see God’s vision. “The law is . . . a shadow of the good things that are coming” (Heb. 10:1). This precedent established by Moses carries throughout the Old Testament. The Old Testament writings foreshadowed what would ultimately come to pass in New Testament times. Not only was Satan blind to the MYSTERY (1 Cor. 2:7, 8; Eph. 3:4–6; Col. 1:27), he was blind to God’s hidden wisdom regarding “Jacob”—which was interwoven in the prophecies of Moses and of other Old Testament prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel. What follows is Jeremiah’s prophecy regarding “Jacob’s trouble.” What you are about to read applies to Jacob's captivity under Babylon and the Antichrist. The terminology that reflects end-times is capitalized. JEREMIAH: Jacob’s Trouble The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book. For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I WILL BRING [bACK FROM] AGAIN THE CAPTIVITY OF MY PEOPLE ISRAEL AND JUDAH, SAITH THE LORD: AND I WILL CAUSE THEM TO RETURN TO THE LAND THAT I GAVE TO THEIR FATHERS, and they shall possess it. And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, AS A WOMAN IN TRAVAIL, and all FACES ARE TURNED INTO PALENESS? Alas! for THAT DAY is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT: IT IS EVEN THE TIME OF JACOB’S TROUBLE; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in THAT DAY, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the Lord their God, and DAVID THEIR KING, WHOM I WILL RAISE UP UNTO THEM. Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; AND JACOB SHALL RETURN, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. (Jer. 30:1–10 KJV) The capitalized terminology reflects end-time prophecies given by Isaiah, Daniel, and Ezekiel. Each prophecy is in the context of the day of the Lord, which includes the time of the Antichrist. ISAIAH Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe LIKE A WOMAN IN LABOR. They will look aghast at each other, THEIR FACES AFLAME. See, THE DAY OF THE LORD is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. (Isa. 13:8, 9) The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in THAT DAY. For THE DAY OF THE LORD OF HOSTS shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low. (Isa. 2:11, 12 KJV) DANIEL At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people [DANIEL’S PEOPLE: JACOB], will arise. There will be a TIME OF DISTRESS SUCH AS HAS NOT HAPPENED from the beginning of nations until then. (Dan. 12:1) EZEKIEL MY SERVANT DAVID WILL BE KING OVER THEM, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. THEY WILL LIVE IN THE LAND I GAVE TO MY SERVANT JACOB, THE LAND WHERE YOUR FATHERS LIVED. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and DAVID MY SERVANT WILL BE THEIR PRINCE FOREVER. (Ezek. 37:24, 25) Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I WILL NOW BRING JACOB BACK FROM CAPTIVITY AND WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON ALL THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, and I will be zealous for my holy name. (Ezek. 39:25) Through his prophets, God’s vision of deliverance for his people stretched far into the future. Prophecies given over 2500 years ago about Jacob’s deliverance are still future tense. Jeremiah gave one of those prophecies: “Jacob’s trouble.” Jeremiah is speaking about Jacob’s trouble, not the church’s trouble: “But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend” (Isa. 41:8 KJV). It is Jacob, not the church that will have “trouble” under the reign of the Antichrist. Jeremiah’s prophecy applied to the followers of the Old Covenant before the time of Christ and it will again apply to the followers of the Old Covenant in the presence of the Christ. The NIV Study Bible states the following about “Jacob’s trouble”: “A description of the day of the Lord. . . . Jeremiah’s immediate reference is to the foreseeable future [babylon] (see vv. 8, 18), but a more remote time in the Messianic age is also in view.” Prophecies that have the “Messianic age in view” are given by numerous Old Testament prophets, and find parallels with the New Testament apostles. The prophecy of Jacob’s trouble drops right into the chronological sequence of end-time events: 1.Christ’s descent from Heaven with the church to rescue Jacob out of the grip of the Antichrist, and, in addition, gather Jacob. 2.The 1000-year kingdom of Christ. 3.The destruction of Gog and Magog. The prophecies given by Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Paul, and John combine to give us this picture. EZEKIEL, JEREMIAH, PAUL, AND JOHN Prophecies given by Ezekiel and John are clearly linked by virtue of the fact that they both spoke of Gog and Magog. In addition, the prophecies given by Ezekiel and Jeremiah (about Jacob’s trouble) overlap, and therefore, both make reference to what will ultimately be fulfilled in the presence of the Christ. Ezekiel’s prophecy had an immediate fulfillment before the time of Christ, and will have an ultimate fulfillment in the presence of the Christ. EZEKIEL: 38 The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, set your face against GOG, OF THE LAND OF MAGOG, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords.’” (Ezek. 38:1–4) This is what will happen in that day: When GOG ATTACKS THE LAND OF ISRAEL, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign Lord. . . . I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed; I WILL POUR DOWN TORRENTS OF RAIN, HAILSTONES AND BURNING SULFUR ON HIM AND ON HIS TROOPS AND ON THE MANY NATIONS WITH HIM. And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord. (Ezek. 38:18, 22, 23) John’s reference to Ezekiel, and the ultimate fulfillment of his prophecy, is found in Revelation 20. REVELATION: 20 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive THE NATIONS which are in the four quarters of the earth, GOG AND MAGOG, TO GATHER THEM TOGETHER TO BATTLE: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. AND THEY WENT UP ON THE BREADTH OF THE EARTH, AND COMPASSED THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS ABOUT, AND THE BELOVED CITY: AND FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN, AND DEVOURED THEM. (Rev. 20:7–9 KJV) God linked Ezekiel and John by using the same terminology: Gog and Magog. Without question, Ezekiel’s prophecy will be ultimately fulfilled in the presence of the Christ. After the 1000-year kingdom of Christ, the enemies of God will be destroyed, and this time, never will they rise again. The following is taken from Nelsons’ New Illustrated Bible Dictionary: “Gog—The leader of a confederacy of armies that attacked the land of Israel. Described as “the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal,” Gog is also depicted as being “of the land of Magog” (Ezek. 38:2–3), a “place out of the far north” of Israel. Ezekiel prophetically describes Gog and his allies striking at Israel with a fierce and sudden invasion (Ezekiel 38-39). According to Ezekiel’s prophecy, Gog will be crushed on the mountains of Israel in a slaughter so great it will take seven months to bury the dead (Ezek. 39:12). In the Book of Revelation, Gog and Magog reappear as symbols of the nations of the world that will march against God’s people in the end times (Rev. 20:7–8).” Take a look at the greater context of Ezekiel’s prophecy. God is referring to the millennial kingdom. EZEKIEL: 37 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: O my people, I AM GOING TO OPEN YOUR GRAVES AND BRING YOU UP FROM THEM; I WILL BRING YOU BACK TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL. Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT IN YOU AND YOU WILL LIVE, AND I WILL SETTLE YOU IN YOUR OWN LAND. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord. (Ezek. 37:12–14) I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. THERE WILL BE ONE KING OVER ALL OF THEM and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God. MY SERVANT DAVID WILL BE KING OVER THEM, AND THEY WILL ALL HAVE ONE SHEPHERD. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. THEY WILL LIVE IN THE LAND I GAVE TO MY SERVANT JACOB, THE LAND WHERE YOUR FATHERS LIVED. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and DAVID MY SERVANT WILL BE THEIR PRINCE FOREVER. I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. (Ezek. 37:22–26) The NIV Study Bible states the following about Ezekiel 38 and 39: “The future restoration of Israel under the reign of the house of David (ch. 37) will bring about a massive coalition of world powers to destroy God’s kingdom. But the vast host [Gog and Magog] that comes against Jerusalem will end up as dead bodies strewn over the fields of the promised land. Israel will become the cemetery of the enemy hordes (cf. ch. 37).” Ezekiel and Jeremiah provide unique pieces of the divine puzzle and together give us a picture of what shall be for Jacob. Just as the ancient enemies of Gog and Magog foreshadowed the end-times enemy of Revelation 20, so likewise the Babylonian captivity of Jacob foreshadowed the end-times captivity of Jacob under the Antichrist. The revelation Christ gave to Paul explained how Jacob would be delivered out of his trouble in the end times: Christ shall descend from Heaven with his armies (2 Thess. 1:7–9). Next: Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians. revvel

Hello Sunesis, Thank you again for your thoughts, and for your heart-felt presentation regarding our free-will choice: the decision to live with or without our Creator now and for eternity. Truly, the decision yields permanent life with, or permanent separation from, God. I would like to respond regarding the lake of fire... Take a look at what King David said: Charge them with crime upon crime; do not let them share in your salvation. May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous. (Ps. 69:27, 28) 3000 years ago David prayed this prayer. 2000 years ago Christ revealed this to us: If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. . . . The lake of fire is the second death. (Rev. 20:15, 14) The book of life gives us a reference point to understand the prophecy about the lake of fire. In his prophecy about the lake, Christ revealed that David’s prayer will be answered: On judgment day, those not found in the book of life will be without salvation and shall die the second death—which means they will be dead forever. Those not found in the book of life on judgment day shall have no life abiding in them. Christ and David are in agreement on this, and no one in the Bible disagrees with them. “[F]or the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). Christ didn’t say the wages of sin is eternal life separated from God. There is a significant difference between Hades (the place of the first death) and the lake of fire (the place of the second death): everyone in Hades will live again (by resurrection to life or condemnation); everyone cast into the lake of fire, however, will never live again. In other words, there is salvation after the first death (for those who chose it), and there is no salvation after the second death (because those in the lake chose none). God shall honor their free-will decision. God is not the God of the dead but of the living—in the resurrection. Christ said this to the Sadducees who didn’t believe in the resurrection of the dead. That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him [Jesus] with a question (Matt. 22:23)…. Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” (Matt. 22:29–32) “The only conclusion being that they must rise and live again in resurrection in order that He may be their God [bullinger].” Christ was not teaching the Sadducees that there would be eternal life for all souls, but that God is the God of the living at the resurrection of the righteous (which these religious authorities rejected). What does salvation in Christ mean? Eternal life. What does no salvation mean? Eternal life? Or eternal death? Christ answered that question: the second death. On the subject of death itself… There is no life or awareness in the first death: Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. (Eccl. 9:10) How can there be no life or awareness in the first death, and yet there be life and awareness in the second death? They are both “death.” In Christ’s revelation about the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10–15), everyone and everything thrown into the lake is literal. Honestly, it is not our place as God’s creation to decide that the lake of fire is figurative when everything else in the prophecy is clearly literal. . . Take a look at the same Greek word for “fire,” found in the context of judgment: It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. (Luke 17:28, 29) How could Christ be referring to a figurative “fire” that “destroyed them all”? The fire Christ spoke of was literal energy that “destroyed” (or changed the form of) matter. Just as literal fire from Heaven changed the form of matter among the morally bankrupt cities, so shall the literal fire in the literal lake of fire change the form of matter for those not found in the book of life, and they shall remain eternally in the literal second death. I know you see it differently. Perhaps on this subject we should agree to disagree. God bless. revvel

PAUL AND JOHN: THESSALONIANS AND REVELATION Both Paul and John received—and wrote down for us—divine revelation. In Christ’s revelation to John, he revealed not only what must be hereafter, but he placed the end-time prophecies in chronological order by numbering them. In essence, Christ took all the guesswork out of what will happen and the order in which it will happen. Herein, Paul’s prophecies are clearly ordered by John. What else could we as Christ’s church believe… but that Paul and John… together… would give us the divine harmony of divine revelation… providing unique pieces of the same prophetic puzzle. REVELATION Here is what John heard: “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter” (Rev. 1:19 KJV). “The things which shall be hereafter” begin in chapter 4: “After this I [John] looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter” (Rev. 4:1 KJV). What must be hereafter? End-time events. For this thread, the most important picture of Christ’s revelation to John is this: The Book of Revelation contains the chronological sequence of events pertaining to the day of the Lord. In this sequence of events, Christ revealed that he would descend from Heaven not once, but twice. 1. THE SIXTH SEAL: THE CHURCH How do we know the sixth seal refers to the church, and the rapture of it? Christ gave us the “sign” of his arrival for the church (Rev. 6:12), first spoken by both Peter and Joel (Acts 2:20; Joel 2:31): the sun will turn black and the moon will turn blood red. 2. THE SEVENTH SEAL: ISRAEL The 7 years of Daniel’s 70th “seven” corresponds to the 7-year prophecy that follows the 7th seal… Both Daniel and John prophesied of the Antichrist in the context of the seven-year prophecy. According to the Old Testament prophets, Christ, and John, the seven-year span of time pertains to Daniel’s “people” (Dan. 9:24): Israel. The culmination of this time is the arrival of Christ with the saints: Revelation 19. The prophetic picture given by John was first given by Paul. 1 THESSALONIANS 1. Our Lord shall descend for us, the church, and gather us in the clouds—at the onset of the day of the Lord (1 Thess. 5:2, 4, 9; 4:16, 17). According to John, it is the time of the sixth seal. 2. The church is saved from the wrath to come (1 Thess. 1:10, 5:9). According to John, the wrath commences after the seventh seal opens. 2 THESSALONIANS 1. The rise and fall of the Antichrist (2 Thess. 2:3, 4, 8–10). John expounded upon Paul’s prophecy in Revelation: chapters 13 – 19. 2. Christ shall descend with his angels in judgment (2 Thess. 1:7–9; 2:8). Revelation states that Christ will descend from Heaven with the saints (the church) and this will come to pass seven years after the seventh seal opens (19:8, 11–21). Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians focused on Christ’s second descent and the destruction of evil. In doing so, Paul reinforced what he already gave the church in his first letter: comfort. Paul gave comfort in the knowledge of the following: Christ shall gather and save the church before the time of wrath, and the Antichrist cannot rise to power until after the church is gathered. Whereas the church will be saved “away from” the wrath by being drawn off the Earth at the time of the sixth seal, Israel will be saved “out” of the wrath seven years after the seventh seal opens—when Christ descends with the saints. It is Israel, not the church that will be on the Earth during the time of the seventh seal. This is the time of great distress for Israel foretold by Jeremiah; it is “the time of Jacob’s [israel’s] trouble; but he shall be saved out of it” (Jer. 30:7 KJV). Yet, some of our religious ancestors used Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians to teach the church will be on the Earth during the rise of the Antichrist and will remain on the Earth throughout the wrath of the seventh seal. If Christ’s revelation to Paul places the church in the clouds at the onset of the day of the Lord, and Christ’s revelation to John places the church in Heaven before the seventh seal opens, then how could Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians state the complete opposite? How is it possible that our religious ancestors could have come up with this interpretation of 2 Thessalonians? We have to ask this: Why did Paul need to write a second letter? Next: Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians. revvel

Hello Allan, Good to hear from you... I trust all is well down unda. revvel

Hello dmiller, Good to hear from you again... Let me say that I did respond to your inquiry on the return/rapture question. Please check my March 23, 10:45am and March 29, 6:14pm responses. I admit that a few days can go by between posts... Allow me to share this: My access to the internet is through library computers, and therefore is subject to library hours and availability. Plus, as a rule, I don't normally respond immediately because I want to think through the heart of what is being said/asked. That's all. God bless. revvel

Hello CWF, Many thanks for your thoughts. I agree. Far too many of us who want the truth of the Scriptures spent countless hours pouring over dogma... Where knowledge ends, imagination begins... Personally, I have no interest in the religious circus... just the truth of the Scriptures... thank you. JESUS CHRIST AND DANIEL, ISAIAH, AND MOSES The day of the Lord refers not only to Christ’s descent from Heaven for the church but also to Christ’s descent for Israel. Throughout the Old Testament, the prophets foretold what would become of the followers of the Old Covenant. Elements of these prophecies can be found in the very words of Christ in Matthew 24. To set the stage to view Christ’s prophecy in the Gospel of Matthew, this text moves back to Old Testament times. What follows are prophecies given by Daniel, Isaiah, and Moses, respectively. These prophets foretold of the following: the Antichrist, the time of wrath, the signs that mark Christ’s return to the Holy Land, and the gathering of the remnant of Israel. What Christ referenced in his prophecy is capitalized. DANIEL: He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one “seven” [seven years]. In the middle of the “seven” he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an ABOMINATION THAT CAUSES DESOLATION, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him [the Antichrist]. (Dan. 9:27) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [Daniel’s people: Israel]: AND THERE SHALL BE A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: AND AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE [iSRAEL] SHALL BE DELIVERED, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan. 12:1 KJV) ISAIAH: FOR THE STARS OF HEAVEN AND THE CONSTELLATIONS THEREOF SHALL NOT GIVE THEIR LIGHT: THE SUN SHALL BE DARKENED IN HIS GOING FORTH, AND THE MOON SHALL NOT CAUSE HER LIGHT TO SHINE. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. THEREFORE I WILL SHAKE THE HEAVENS, AND THE EARTH SHALL REMOVE OUT OF HER PLACE, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. (Isa. 13:10–13 KJV) In that day the Lord will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be GATHERED up one by one. And in that day A GREAT TRUMPET will sound. Those who were perishing in Assyria and those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the Lord on the holy mountain in Jerusalem. (Isa. 27:12, 13) MOSES: That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and GATHER THEE FROM ALL THE NATIONS, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee. IF ANY OF THINE BE DRIVEN OUT UNTO THE OUTMOST PARTS OF HEAVEN, FROM THENCE WILL THE LORD THY GOD GATHER THEE, and from thence will he fetch thee: And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it. (Deut. 30:3–5 KJV) During his ministry, Christ also prophesied of what would become of Israel. In a single prophecy about his second coming to Israel, the Son of God spoke forth the collective voice of the three Old Testament prophets referenced above. Christ prophesied of the Antichrist, the time of wrath, the signs that would mark his return to the Holy Land, and the gathering of the remnant of Israel. He introduced his prophecy by referring to Daniel and the final years of prophecy that lead up to the Apocalypse. What Christ referenced from the Old Testament is capitalized. When ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by DANIEL THE PROPHET, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: FOR THEN SHALL BE GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall THE SUN BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, AND THE STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN, AND THE POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET [THE GREAT TRUMPET], and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS [OF THE EARTH], FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER. (Matt. 24:21–31 KJV) Daniel, Isaiah, and Moses testify that this prophecy speaks of gathering Israel—not the church. Zechariah prophesied of this future time—revealing how Israel would suffer grievously, but that there would be those who would emerge victorious. “In the whole land,” declares the Lord, “two-thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one-third will be left in it. This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are my people, and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’” (Zech. 13:8, 9) The prophecies given here by Christ and the Old Testament prophets drop right into the revelation given to John: it is the time of the seventh seal. The revelation written down by Matthew (chapter 24) directly corresponds to the revelation written down by John (chapters 8 – 19). Christ’s revelation to John dramatically expounds upon the revelation he initially gave to Matthew. Note: “A great sound of a trumpet” is a figure of speech known as Hendiadys, where it is “not two things, but one,” (E. W. Bullinger, The Companion Bible [Grand Rapids, Mich.: Kregel Publications, 1990], 1366. In essence, Christ referred to what Isaiah referred to: the great trumpet. The great trumpet marks the arrival of Christ for Israel, and the last trumpet marks the arrival of Christ for the church. According to Hebrew authorities, the great trumpet and the last trumpet are not one and the same. They mark completely different sounds, and according to the Scriptures, they mark completely different arrivals of Christ. Next: Paul and John: Thessalonians and Revelation. revvel

Hello sirguessalot, My apologies for taking liberty with the word "it." My own context is this: Taking God's Word for "it" ... "it" is whatever subject you would like to study in the Scriptures... and finding the truth. And... relative to the sentence you quoted... Allow me to summarize: Life filled with truth. That's "it." Grace and peace to you too. revvel

THE APOSTLES PAUL AND JOHN: DISMISSED When in our religious history did unsound doctrine regarding Christ’s return for the church first emerge? The first century. Church leadership actually dismissed both Paul and John—and Paul and John documented this deplorable state of affairs. The apostle John revealed the mind-set of a church leader so twisted that he rejected not only an apostle of Christ but also cast Christ’s followers out of the church. “I [John] wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will have nothing to do with us. So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, gossiping maliciously about us. Not satisfied with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church” (3 John 9, 10). How did Diotrephes handle John (someone who spoke out about the truth)? Vicious personal attacks and dismissal… Sound familiar? If that wasn’t bad enough, church leadership in Asia Minor saw fit to pull the entire flock of Christ away from the apostle Paul. “You know that everyone in the province of Asia has deserted me [Paul]” (2 Tim. 1:15). Church “leaders” “trashed” the apostles. How pathetic is that… Our religious ancestors saw fit to keep “their” flock away from John and Paul. How many doctrinal mutations could have come out of this corrupt environment? Paul, in his second letter to Timothy, wrote the following: Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. (2 Tim. 2:16–18) Hymenaeus and Philetus “wandered away from the truth” and taught “godless chatter” about the resurrection of those who died in Christ. Why would God document this revolting picture from our spiritual past? What is to be learned from this historical record? We within the church must be honest with ourselves and examine what we have assumed to be true. This must include the doctrine of the “signless” rapture. Just what exactly did we inherit from our religious ancestors? Compare the “signless” rapture to what Paul said to the Thessalonians. “Now, brothers, about times and dates.” So what is Paul going to talk about? Signs? Or time? “While people are saying, ‘Peace and safety,’ destruction will come on them suddenly.” Is it “signless” destruction? Or is it sudden destruction? Paul is not speaking of the “signless” nature of Heaven’s intervention, but of the sudden nature of Heaven’s intervention. It is not a “signless” rapture; it is a sudden rapture: "We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed" (1 Cor. 15:51, 52). How could it have happened that we ended up believing and teaching the “signless” arrival of Christ? Why should we just accept the corruption of Scripture handed to us by our religious ancestors? The dogma of the “signless” rapture is nothing more than godless chatter and this teaching has spread like gangrene. Enough of this “signless” dogma… This is what I believe: There is one author, God, who gave us the “books” in the Bible. The Creator speaks with one voice, but with different perspectives on identical subjects. Consider Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Why four Gospels? They speak to the same subject, only with different perspectives so as to paint the fullness of the whole picture. God designed the whole Bible this way: different writers speaking to identical subjects providing unique pieces of the divine puzzle. The divine harmony between the Old and New Testaments cannot be broken. It is by the multitude of writers (witnesses) that our God has given us in the Bible—who testify to the truth—and reveal the harmony within and between the Old and New Testaments, that we as Christ’s church can take God’s Word for “it,” and know what is truly sound doctrine. It is our enemy, Satan, who wants us to isolate verses, divide apostles one from another, and separate the prophecies of the Old Testament from the New Testament in order to produce unsound doctrine. As pointed out by sirguessalot, there was confusion at the ascension scene.... This record serves to reinforce the importance of allowing the multitude of witnesses to guide our thoughts... especially the collective voice of Peter, Paul, and John... regarding the day of the Lord. We as God’s human creation are at war with spiritual darkness and Satan seeks to out maneuver us at every turn of history. Satan has spent countless years covering up the signs that shall mark the commencement of the day of the Lord and the gathering of the church. Let our generation be remembered as the generation that ended the cover-up. This text now turns to prophecies spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ, and the references he made to the Old Testament prophets. To be continued… revvel

Hello sirguessalot, I know that you posted to provoke thought—and that’s good. Allow me to do likewise… by posing a couple of questions... If the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah turned out to be about the literal, personal presence of Jesus the Christ, then is it logical, or illogical, to believe that the prophecies about the second coming of the Messiah will turn out to be about the literal, personal presence of Jesus the Christ? If God spoke of the lake of fire as literal, and in the future tense, then why should we conclude that it is figurative, and in the present tense? This is the testimony of what shall come to pass: And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev. 20:10) According to Heaven’s revelation, the lake of fire is just as literal as Satan, the beast, and the false prophet. How can Heaven throw (a literal) Satan into a figure of speech? The lake of fire is a literal, burning “prison” that will be (future tense) the permanent residence of Satan and company. This is what I believe: The angel said to me [John], These words are trustworthy and true.” (Rev. 22:6) The truth… it is about the truth… and where to find it… and that’s what you want, sirguessalot… isn’t it? God bless. revvel

THE APOSTLES PAUL AND JOHN, AND THE PROPHET ISAIAH What did Paul communicate when he said “the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night”? Firstly, Paul did not say Christ will return like a thief in the night, but that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. Why did Paul refer to “the day of the Lord”? What is “the day of the Lord”? Is it the single day of Christ’s return? Or does it refer to a span of time that applies to Heaven’s intervention upon Earth? The Old Testament prophets give God’s precedent—God’s answer. Isaiah (among other prophets) testified that “the day of the Lord” is not one day but a span of time that speaks of God’s intervention into earthly affairs. Why would Paul refer to “the day of the Lord”? Because God’s intervention into earthly affairs shall begin with Christ’s descent from Heaven to gather the church into Heaven to save it from the wrath to come. To set the stage to understand Paul’s prophecy about “the day of the Lord,” this text moves back in time to the precedent established by God. What follows are prophecies given by Isaiah: Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. Because of this, all hands will go limp, every man’s heart will melt. Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame. See, the day of the Lord is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. (Isa. 13:6–9) Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty. The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: . . . And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. (Isa. 2:10–12, 19–21 KJV) The “day of the Lord” described by Isaiah is the same “day of the Lord” described by the New Testament apostles: it is the prophecy of Heaven’s intervention. The prophecies given by Isaiah bare a striking resemblance to John’s prophecy in the Book of Revelation because John marked the onset of the day of the Lord: I [John] watched as he [Christ] opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” (Rev. 6:12–17) This wrath described by John is the same wrath described by Isaiah. Without question, the day of the Lord is the span of time marking Heaven’s intervention. The Old Testament prophets clearly spoke of this, but it wasn’t until Heaven gave revelation to the New Testament apostles about the church that the fullness of this intervention was made known. When the sixth seal opens, the Lord Jesus Christ will gather God’s possessions, and the sky will be filled with souls marked by Heaven. Then the sky will recede upward like a scroll, and the church shall ascend to Heaven. The remaining population will erupt into chaos, seeking to be hidden from the God whom they rejected. (Whereas the sixth seal announces the coming wrath, the seventh seal initiates its actual commencement.) This wrath spoken by John in the Book of Revelation is the same wrath spoken by Paul; it is the wrath the sons of God are saved from: “and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath” (1 Thess. 1:10). Jesus Christ shall rescue the church “from” the coming wrath. “From” in the Greek language is apo and means “away from,” denoting “motion from the exterior.” In other words, the church is not just protected from the wrath while “sitting” on the Earth, but is saved “away from” the wrath by literally being drawn up away from the Earth’s surface: “motion from the exterior” of the Earth to Heaven, which is the gathering. In contrast to the church gathered into Heaven, those who remain on the planet will understand the impending wrath. How do we know this? John’s prophecy reveals the collective voice of those left behind: “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” If the religious tradition of the “signless” return is true, and no one on Earth can see Christ descend from Heaven, and the church simply disappears, then how could those left on Earth know “the great day of their wrath has come?” Why would those who reject Christ say, “hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb”? Those who are left on Earth must awake to Heaven’s judgment and Christ’s presence. How? God shall mark the onset of the day of the Lord with divine signs: There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth. (Rev. 6:12, 13) [Christ] is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him (Rev. 1:7). This is the testimony of God: Those who are on the Earth will see and understand Heaven’s divine power and the presence of Christ and then will recognize their own reality and fate. Without question, before Heaven’s judgment strikes the Earth, divine signs will mark the divine threshold: “The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.” The belief that Christ’s arrival to save the church is a “signless” event is rooted in religious history—not in the Scriptures. Our religious ancestors neglected the harmony between the Old and New Testaments, misunderstood one figure of speech, and consequently were deceived—and the deception continues to this day. For those of us in the body of Christ who hold to the supreme authority of Scripture, there is no intent to create traditions or stories, but to be worthy of the divinely inspired story already written. Let us not silence the witnesses God gave us who prophesied about “the day of the Lord.” The testimony of God stands: signs—not the absence of them—shall mark Heaven’s timetable. Heaven gave revelation to the New Testament apostles about the day of the Lord to inform the church about this future time. Here is Paul’s prophecy: Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people [who are not in the body of Christ] are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly [from wrath], as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day [the day of the Lord] should surprise you like a thief. You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert [watch] and self-controlled. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath [during Heaven’s intervention on Earth] but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. (1 Thess. 5:1–10) This prophecy is not speaking about signs, nor is it speaking exclusively about Christ’s return for the church. Rather, it speaks of Heaven’s intervention and the destiny of those within the body of Christ and the destiny of those not within the body of Christ. When Christ descends from Heaven to gather the church, the opposing fates shall be delivered concurrently. With regard to the church, Paul said: “But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise [overtake] you like a thief.” The word “surprise” means “to lay hold of, [to] seize suddenly, [and to] come suddenly upon.” The day of the Lord will not overtake the church like a thief. Why? “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Wrath will not lay hold upon the church because of the salvation of the church. What salvation? The same salvation Paul described just a few sentences earlier in his letter to the Thessalonians: the gathering in the clouds when we “meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thess. 4:17). Salvation means deliverance. Next: When in our religious history did unsound doctrine regarding Christ’s return for the church first emerge? To be continued… Note: Heaven’s revelation about “the day of the Lord” is found throughout the Old Testament: Isaiah (2:12; 13:6, 9), Ezekiel (13:5; 30:3), Joel (1:15; 2:1, 11, 31; 3:14), Amos (5:18, 20), Obadiah (15), Zephaniah (1:7, 14), Zechariah (14:1), and Malachi (4:5). revvel