FreeFromCults

I guess that someday we will have to try to forget what these clowns, who hardly ever worked an honest day in their lives.They did this to us under the lie ' that they NEVER had to work, because they worked the word'. What a joke. They got us to kiss their *sses, then they were ungrateful for all we did for them. We were truly saints for not telling them to go pound sand. There are still some that will never change. They now whine about everything because TWI is not taking care of them. What goes around, comes around.

No Kidding!!!!

They got what they deserve and they are sowing what they reap for being ungrateful lazy @sses.

You only have the authority to forgive offenses against you -- If someone wronged someone else, I have no concern regarding forgiving. My responsibility would be ensuring that I maintain a kind kind of kindness.

That is your own prerrogative if you wanna forgive LCM.

DON'T PONTIFICATE OR JUDGE ME JUST BECAUSE I CHOOSE NOT TO FORGIVE THAT BASTARD!!!! IT IS MY OWN RIGHT AND MY OWN PRERROGATIVE!!!!

So by your logic, we should forgive Hitler for starting a war that killed millions of people along with his genocide programs? that we don't have the authority to forgive him because what he did was not done to us?

Let me phrase you something that I read from WW2, maybe you're familiar with it:

"When the Nazis went after the homosexual, I didn't speak up and do anything because I wasn't a homosexual.

When the Nazis went after the Jews, I didn't speak up and do anything because I wasn't a Jew.

When the Nazis went after the Catholics, I didn't speak up and do anything because I wasn't a Catholic.

When the Nazis went after me, there was no one who could speak up and do anything for me."

It's not the exact words, but you get the idea, heh?

Like I said: "To each their own".

Let me add my responses:

I consider myself a non-practicing Christian and I don't adhere to any sect or denomination in particular.

I do believe in God, but I don't believe Jesus to be God as I believe he's the Son of God.

I believe that SIT is nothing but CRAP.

I don't know what happen to the dead.

I don't go to any Church, Worship Center nor do I hang out and worship like I said I am non-practicing Christian.

In other words, I grew up with the Christian beliefs (even before joining TWI), but I don't totally practice them as more than anything else, I am a human being and I make mistakes. Just because I make mistakes and I am not practicing my faith as much, does that mean God is gonna love us less???

Since I said "To Each Their Own". Let me tell you my wishes to LCM and his brown-nosing wannabes:

1) That they go thru what everyone who suffered at their hands had went through.

2) That they be at the receiving end of what they did to others before kicking and running them out.

and I wish that they live thru all of our sufferings until their last stinking breath.

I don't want them to die or suicide. I want them to REALLY live and feel for eternity what we went thru.

You can FLAME me for saying this: I am not and will not wish them the best.

Lingo,

To each one their own.

However, if LCM or any of his goons stalks me or my loved ones, you and the whole world will hear and know that there will be one less scumbag in this world.

LCM is a big bully and his "wannabes" are just as bad as being bullies. One can never reason with bullies. They also know about the "forgiving" part and they will use and abuse it. As long as they leave me alone, everything will be OK. I moved on, but I'll never forgive them and I will keep my guard up when it comes to them.

JesusChrist and God forgive everyone, but I am not JesusChrist and I am not God.

So...no, I am not forgiving LCM and the ministry for their oppresive tactics in ruining countless number of lives.

My life is not ruined because I didn't let them, but what about of the many people whose lives were ruined and shattered by them. Some of these people may not ever recover or are just too old to get back up after spending their entire lives in the ministry just to be kicked out to the curb.

Don't tell me that is most un-Christian thing to say or don't tell me that I can be the better man if I forgive them.

Sorry... Like I said, God forgives, but I am not God so I won't forgive them and I have every FRIGGING right to do so.

I had allowed a family member to come and live with me. He did attend fellowship a couple of times but flat out told me he did not want to take the class.. years ago he had taken the PFAL and it never stuck like it did with me. It was okay with TWI that he lived with me as long as he showed up at fellowship once in a while and put something in the horn. When they started pushing for him to sign up for WAP he adamantly was not going to do it. He worked second shift and was just getting his life together and didn't want to rock the boat at work. I can understand this.

Fast forward to fellow$*@! coordinators (hubby and wife's) house with branch coordinator - 3 against one and voila - you have confrontation time. I knew it was coming because I had seen others confronted for many many different VIOLATIONS. I was accused of being the lowest of the lowest believer - that I was totally going against God's will by allowing him to stay and I literally refused during that confrontation to do what they wanted me to do - kick him out. My brother had been a cocaine addict and alcoholic for most of his life. Since living with me he had been clean and sober for about a year. We were getting along just fine and there was no way that I was going to just kick him out with no where to go - he was doing very well with his job and his sobriety. I felt that when he and I decided to live seperately - that was our business. And I really believed God was working that in my heart, and what they were trying to get me to do was totally contrary to what God was working in me. I of course got the boot and cried on the way out of their house, but can say I haven't cried since about that outfit.

Basically I chose to continue to love and stand by my "earthly" brother and this was wrong in their eyes.

When you helped your brother out, you did make a difference in his life. You helped your brother get better and that is what LOVE is all about. That's the kinda of LOVE that God wants. Hey, JesusChrist hung out with a thief, a tax collector, an alleged prostitute, and the sick.

It shows you that ministry is not about "LOVE" to others. Only about LOVE to itself.

No Wonder why the ministry is shrinking.

No wonder why not many people nowadays want to join the ministry.

Has anyone else run across this? Is this common throughout Christianity, also, or is it just mainly extwi? Or, is it just me?

It is not just TWI, but also other cults, ministries. It also happens in mainstream Christianity and in other religions (see Islam) as well.

They all have an arrogant self-righteous almighty attitude of being better than everyone else.

It's reason why I don't belong to any ministry nor practice any religion.

FFC, They ALWAYS treated you nice when you began involvement with twi.....you remember...protected the newbies from the teachings that they coudn`t *handle* .....no matter when that was (for me it was in 79) They waited for you to *mature* spiritually before they began the manipulate with the fear teachings.

But slowly the fear was always worked in.....If you don`t go wow you cannot grow spiritually....you may lose the word it will have fallen on rocky ground......fear

Musn`t go home after wow year.....you might die spiritually because no one is there to fellowship with...fear

If you do not obey your leader in every particular no matter how outragious, you might become posessed...fear

If you didn`t tithe God couldn`t protect you....fear

If you didn`t go corpes you would be a disapointment to God and not ever amount to anything...fear

If you spoke up when being mistreated....you were considered un meak and contentious...you might become posessed....fear

If you are involved in wow or corpes you have made a commitment to God...if you break that vow you will become posessed and die....fear

Last and worst of all was the teaching that if you didn`t abort your unborn child and finish your commitment to God...you would face the consequences of disobediance and betrayal to God.... complete with every record in the scriptures of the graphic death and destruction that befell people who didn`t honor their vows....FEAR

ALl personal examples backed scripturally, all occuring before 1986.....

Yeah I`d say there was a bit of fear involved.

rascal,

you're right. To all newcomers, they use the same common tactic as all cults: LoveBombing.

However, I wasn't pushed or forced to go WOW after a year. I wasn't even pushed to go Corpse or even rushed and hurried up to take the AC. I wasn't pushed and forced to tithe even after 2 and half years, they always let me tithe whatever amount I could give. I could miss or come late to some meetings and they didn't hassle me about it.

It was in my last 6 months when there was a change in leadership (the corpses and the brown-nosers coming from HQ) in the Branch where I lived that they were pushing me to quit school to go WOW, were hurrying me to take the AC, were pushing me to tithe from any source of money (work, help from parents and financial aid for school), even going far as to make tithing mandatory at every meeting and to give as much as well as giving me a screaming earful when I come late to or miss a meeting.

While I am not exactly defending TWI, I have to admit that when I started, FEAR wasn't the foundation of the doctrines. At least that wasn't the case by how well I was treated at first. However, since ROA '94, it has been all about FEAR. FEAR of this..., FEAR of that...., blah, blah, blah.

It grew worse and worse as the screaming confrontations escalated as I had the misfortune of witnessing one in what was supposedly a night of mandatory twig meeting plus several doggings to everyone in the twig by the TC (Belle knows who that person is) quite a few times. I just had had it with it. I left, I escaped, I abandoned that place that was riddled only with FEAR not caring about what will happen to me when I left.

So as far the past 11 years, you can say FEAR is the foundation of TWI doctrines.

Some ladies from Texas may recall a UNIQUE teaching at a women's mtg. in the late 80's when we were told emphatically by the BC's wife that, as women, we sometimes just have to EAT &$*# when it comes to our men. At the time we all nodded & acted like we got it; the gist seemed to be that whatever he dishes out, you take. It stuck in my head bec. the eat &$*# part was repeated SEVERAL times.

As it turned out, apparently there was much &$*# to be eaten in THAT marriage. On the one hand, I felt kind of sorry for her, but not too much as she was bloody obnoxious to pretty much everybody. But, that one teaching had an effect on me for years.......

I wonder if that BC's wife is still enjoying eating &$*# from her hubby.

If she is, then I gotta admit that I respect her for still practicing what she preached though I don't agree with it.

Skyrider, I spewed coffee all over my computer reading that! We had our in the public library and P@ul Bro*ks was the coordinator for that. You do not tell Paul "no" - ever!

What a spoiled arrogant cretin!!!!

I'm not surprised if he idolizes or imitates LCM, another abusive spoiled arrogant cretin.

Once, when we were doing a string of more boring meetings - I think AC reviews....my ex and I asked our BCs, M@rtin & Chr1stin* C@rr*ll, why we couldn't just use the same place each time so that we didn't have to do all the nasty set up work all the time. OMG, you'd have thought we asked him to commit murder or something. My poor ex had to listen to Martin go off on him for thirty minutes straight - and how dare we question their leadership and decisions???

So glad I'm not subjected to all that anymore.

You and all of us are much better off without them and their crap. They think what they do is a favor and tough love....Yeah Right. They can take their tough love and shove it up their own arses.

OUCH!!!! I'VE FALLEN AND I CAN'T GET UP!!!

I would look at the reputation of the group also. The RC's have a history of their leaders molesting children and then covering it up. Red flags jump out at me.

Not to mention a long history of participating in genocides and killings "in the name of God"

Better they marry an unbeliever who will treat her and the children with love and respect....imo

Very true.

Who the F**K cares if the man is not Christian as long as he treats his wife and children with love and respect?

The fear I would become a "greasespot by midnight" kept me around for many years because I so believed God would bring some horrible disease or accident upon me or my family. Fear is definitely a motivator that will ensure compliance and staying in line. Pile upon that loosing all the rewards and crowns I had earned, they really had me. If TWI had not mark and avoid me I don't know to this day if I would have ever gotten the courage to leave. I was a mess after being out just waiting for the ultimate tradgedy to happen, but then one day I realized my mind was still intact and health quite sound. Around that time I also happened upon GreaseSpot Cafe which has turned out to be such a life saver. Seeing others were having similar fears after leaving TWI, relieved many concerns and enabled me to get on with my life once again.

And... after awhile we found out all the FEARS they planted in our minds are nothing but BS.

When I left, I left on my own accord. I stayed because of fear, but with all their legalisms, trying to control my life along with dictating how day schedule should be, I just didn't care anymore what will happen to me if I left. I reached the point that I'd rather be dead than live like a slave of a tyrannical ministry.

Free from Cults,

You wrote of Bob Moneyhands: I bet I can come behind him and say "BOOOHH! I am a former Way believer and a cop-out" and he'll be running for the nearest exit.

My thoughts on that: not unless you, too, tick off Rosalie and she ships YOU across the Atlantic to coordinate a work that doesn't exist ....

No, you will just have to enjoy being around your family and working a REAL job and having self-respect and leave the running to the nearest exit to BM in his nightmares ...

It is a shame he does not garner HIS self-respect, ask GOD first and then other folks for forgiveness, and move on to a REAL life.

Well said, DogLover!!!

Good advice.

And, Moneyhands gets MAD.........handled like a true coward. Sure wouldn't want to take these complaints back to martinfail and tell him how idiotic these phone hook-ups were. No sirree........a brown-noser just follows orders. Period.

A true coward... he is. I heard while Loy Boy got into an incident with a football fan at a bowl game in Orlando, Moneyhands was cowering and hiding like the coward he is.

I bet I can come behind him and say "BOOOHH! I am a former Way believer and a cop-out" and he'll be running for the nearest exit.

Belle,

Sorry if I am going "spiritually"

But if a man loves a woman, he SHOULD NOT and MUST NOT remake the woman he loves into some standard placed by any circle or ministry. He SHOULD NOT and MUST NOT belittle the woman for her faults and especially NOT in front of people that don't have any frigging business in the relationship. He SHOULD NOT AND MUST NEVER let anyone harm the woman he loves. Most importantly, he SHOULD NOT and MUST NEVER physically or psychologically abuse the woman he loves. Otherwise, he doesn't really love the woman.

This ministry and your ex knows what the "Word" says, but they don't know the meaning and what in practice should be. The meaning and practice is simply "Love". Of course, that's the one most important thing that they never care to teach. To put a lot of legalism in a relationship or dictating what a relationship should be is anything but love.

Like I said, If I pull the same crap on my girlfriend as what your ex did to you, my girlfriend will literally kick my foot even though I am bigger and stronger than her.

Belle...

Feel Free. Enjoy your freedom, you deserve it. Be more succesful than they are. Nothing infuriates them more if you're successful or if you're more successful than they are especially after you left them.

As far as I'm concerned, these TWIts who abused you can all KISS YOUR foot.

Best Regards.

Before '96 in Florida, it was something of a fun get-together. We could dress very casually. Attendance wasn't required.

But then, starting in '96 (my last year there), we had to dress-up. Let's say the &$*# hit the fan.

I really started to hate it and it wasn't until the last STS that I attended that I just have had it. It was in the home of my first TC. We were not live and Moneyhands orders us to stand up and clap like if we were in HQ. Say What??? Why do we need to do that when it's a phone-hookup and they cannot even see us? and Why do we need to dress-up especially when it's warm and humid? Why is attendance required all of a sudden???

Does God love us less if we dress up casually??? or if we don't attend because of some personal, professional or school commitments??? or if we don't stand up and clap when we're not in HQ???

Maybe the God that they worship is like that and we have an idea what God is that.

STL...

I can tell you a third reason why people stay: FEAR.

FEAR of losing what they have while "in" (like family and circle of friends.). FEAR of being blackmailed by a leadership who'll go at any length to dig up dirt or spread BS to tarnish a person's name, dignity and reputation. FEAR of the world outside the box as described by same leadership. Finally... the FEAR (that leadership place on everyone) that people who leave the ministry always have something terrible happen to them.

he then said he has a huge spiritual radar so that if anything was going on (spiritually) he would have known about it.

I guess his radar was jammed when he was caught with his pants down.

I guess his radar was disabled when he got the boot from being the Prez.

I guess his radar was down when he was served with a lawsuit.

I bet his radar wasn't working when he got slapped silly for berating a fan at a bowl game in Orlando where his favorite college football team was getting its foot whooped. (Those who were there knows what I'm talking about).

I cannot imagine making a 4 to 6 hr drive for STS, then drive the same amount time to reach home really late and going to work the next day.

It doesn't make sense, but since when did LCM say anything that made sense?

FFC, it's funny how perspective changes when one gets married and has kids. That long term financial security and good school district thing becomes a lot more important then, doesn't it? ;)

You got that right, Belle.

Too bad it's too late for that person to tell it to the people that left the twig that person was coordinating.

Nicely said Belle and very true.

Another thing I thought of regarding why some wierwillites won't respond and choose to ignore is fear. Being part of a cult and waybrained, they may have bought into the lie that those who don't buy into their beliefs are possessed!!!

Like a little kid they'll put their hands over thier ears and say "I'm not listening, blah blah blah" or like an ostrich sticking it's head in the ground to avoid hearing anything that differs from their belief. Because they may think that if they listen, they might get possessed when in reality, in some cases it could be just the opposite. They could get set free, Jesus Christ taught the truth sets us free, well wrong doctrines can put you in bondage to a certain degree. I'll continue to pray for these folks in the hope they will see the truth and be set free.

I also agree. Belle really hit the bullseye on the topic.

I admit that I was amond those who were fooled.