dancing

And yet here we are, able to dismantle that which does not work.

And actually say with all honesty that 'i do not know'.

Which is a step into knowing the truths that have been waiting to be revealed in you.

Being Born Again is a process of letting God work within us.

Without men dictating to us what to believe.

who can really prove their faith?

show me your faith by works James says

what work is he talking about?

the fruit of this faith is seen

but not the faith itself

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JCOPS and JCOP were mainly the work of one Walter Cummins with plenty of documentation in the back of the book and footnotes about where they got the information.

There are of course conclusions drawn in those books.

So you have to watch that part of it.

The conclusions that are not acceptable to you that is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith

Some things I just know.

Some things are shown to me.

I care little what others think about it.

But I will take it even further then even I thought.

Reason and rational thinking is underestamated.

As is Jesus Christ.

Neither one has limits.

if one can take a step into irrational thought

without leaving the rational

could it be possible to see rational logic in this irrational thought?

to take for instance that our rational thinking

might be just a taste of what that seemingly irrational thought is

like the outside of an inner being

or the inside of an outer being

waiting for an investigation with rational thought

and when these two-rational and irrational meet

would it be wisdom and understanding kissing in the midst?

would it be an understanding of more then thought that is rational

would it be the wisdom that has been sought by many and found?

the wisdom of God confounds the wisdom of this world

must be another world where wisdom is seen differently

must be another reality that will blend with the present-your present

or have we come to a stop sign saying you can not go further then this

still wondering what is beyond that stop sign, that stops so many easily?

Let's see here-

To date I've been accused of telling people what to believe, when I've been presenting evidence for anyone to take or leave. That's been almost 3 years now.

Been accused of being a Mystic, a pagan, a poet , a speaker of flowery language and more.

Been accused of telling people what to believe-yeah.

And I get people dictating to me what to say and believe.

Kind of funny in a way.

I do hope this thread continues with the many beliefs here without insults.

I have insulted no one. If one takes offence at what I say then who's fault is it?

I have a deep respect for everyone here including George.

If I say what I believe, does that mean I'm trying to convince someone else to believe like me?

No.

I let the Lord be Lord.

I didn't say George was wrong in what he believes Belle.

I just pointed out what he believes.

George is the one trying to insult other beliefs.

I have no intention to change anyone-not my job.

Why Should I Be a Christian

How about why should I believe that which is seen in my mind?

And if it's seen in the mind it can be seen in the physical.

Why?

To know what happens when we die.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Apparently one can have faith before being 'converted'.

converted-

1994 epistrepho { ep-ee-stref’-o}

from 1909 and 4762; TDNT - 7:722,1093; v

AV - turn 16, be converted 6, return 6, turn about 4, turn again 3, misc 4; 39

GK - 2188 { ejpistrevfw }

1) transitively

1a) to turn to

1a1) to the worship of the true God

1b) to cause to return, to bring back

1b1) to the love and obedience of God

1b2) to the love for the children

1b3) to love wisdom and righteousness

2) intransitively

2a) to turn to one’s self

2b) to turn one’s self about, turn back

2c) to return, turn back, come back

I'm not being tolerant or intolerant, just stateing what George believes.

And he can stay that way if he wants.

But I said there is substance,and George says it's an excuse.

Then uses the idiotic phrase of the skirt thing.

I can tolerate the phrase but it's not the truth in any sense of the phrase.

Personally I find "faith" to be simply an excuse to believe in something that you have no proof for whatever

Hi George,

I guess you have faith in that statement and could never be shown otherwise.

faith is seen by works

what works

speaking is work-sort of

'out of his belly shall flow'

flowing don't sound like work

but getting to the point that it can flow can be a task

love is not work either

but getting there can be

and is this faith something that is unchangeable?

well yes and no imo

seeing only a part is not seeing the whole

believing one thing is not an automatic for something else

where does this faith come from

the inner heart

that which is written in the soul

and continues to be written

like waking a sleeping giant

slowly at times and quickened at times

Yeah, I don't go for the telling God what to do.

I do things and reap what I sow.

It wasn't-

By Abel faith

By Enoch faith

By Noah faith

By Abraham faith

Through Sara faith

It was 'by Faith' they did these things.

Reading the records it was not there will but God's will.

Sounds like what Jesus said.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

hmmm...believe that he is....

and I don't think $ is the reward

finding him is

speaking for myself

i haven't stated what i believe

just that there is substance to faith

i'm not anywhere near twi doctrine

and they didn't come up with the concordance

i just used it to make a point

anyways i still don't take offense Belle

i'm cool....

and no i don't even think I have a way...

No problem Belle.

talk substance and ignored

talk the unseen - ignored

no matter

don't change nothin anyway

Nice work year.

Then to see it in action is a hell of a ride.

1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

substance

5287 hupostasis { hoop-os’-tas-is}

from a compound of 5259 and 2476; TDNT - 8:572,1237; n f

AV - confidence 2, confident 1, person 1, substance 1; 5

GK - 5712 { uJpovstasi" }

1) a setting or placing under

1a) thing put under, substructure, foundation

2) that which has foundation, is firm

2a) that which has actual existence

2a1) a substance, real being

2b) the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing

2c) the steadfastness of mind, firmness, courage, resolution

2c1) confidence, firm trust, assurance

evidence

1650 elegchos { el’-eng-khos}

from 1651; TDNT - 2:476,221; n m

AV - reproof 1, evidence 1; 2

GK - 1791 { ejlegmov" }* & 1793 { e[legco" }

1) a proof, that by which a thing is proved or tested

2) conviction

On a side note-interesting that it says 'worlds'.

faith is the substance...

the evidence of things not seen

so hebrews says

so this substance can be examined by yourself

or with the help of another

this can be done without a quarrel or any such thing

but faith is spiritual yes..unseen

unseen..what does that mean?

like a car or house?

or can it really be seen

we see things all the time

a mind without limits

only those we place on ourselves

so when we see are we limited to what we see?

or can there be more-deeper wider greater then first believed

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Going to be fun to see, when we realize that men cannot change what is already done, has been done from the beginning and will be performed by the grace of God, G-d, Jesus, Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus.

Not many care to search out the Spirit that is still moving upon the face of the waters.

Pieces lie in many places. Of our minds. From Mormonism too.

All coming from the same place.

Blink and you miss them.

Seek and you will find.

Knock, and I mean KNOCK and it will be opened.

This religion, that one, or AA or anything else.

The hand of God is in them all.

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