QuietThinker

Now maybe if you can get beyond the negative part of the twi past (no matter how long you were "in") , possibly you can take some productive aspects of the spiritual Word knowledge you aquired and shape a better life for yourselves? This is the question, not to dwell in the past but to press forward...right? Are we not striving to achieve our spiritual rewards and glorify God in the process? If the best part of your future is behind you, you've lost, n'est pas?

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Well, things continued with Mr. Geer visiting us in Denmark, Norway and Sweden until about 1983 when the country coordinator for Norway killed two of his Norwegian believers (do you think he was possessed or was just a bad choice ?). Well anyway, that was the end of Bumpy at The Way and pretty much the organization in Scandinavia for Mr. Geer.

Here's a clue for you...the (blonde) Way Corps girl who came to Norway the year in question was from Colorodo and her maiden initials were LP. Amazing, no one knew about this little incident? I guess damage control at hq decided it wasn't necessary for the sheep to stop grazing and hear the news. It might have had a disturbing effect on the brainwashing in progress!

Bumpy

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Posted Today, 04:28 AM

Well, please first read what I wrote before you "doubt' my credibility. I said the "country coordinator" shot two of his Way fellow members, not Mr. Geer. Secondly, I don't really care what your opinion of me is, all you have to do is contact the Norweigian authorities. You should find what you're looking for during the years of '83 or '84. It was in all the Oslo papers. For sure there are people in twi who know what happened. But I'm not surprised by the reaction so far. Most of you were fast asleep!

I wonder if that incident is still stuck in Chris Geer’s ear? Also, I wonder if it was public knowledge amongst all you folks back in the USA?

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Here's a clue for you...the (blonde) Way Corps girl who came to Norway the year in question was from Colorodo and her maiden initials were LP. Amazing, no one knew about this little incident? I guess damage control at hq decided it wasn't necessary for the sheep to stop grazing and hear the news. It might have had a disturbing effect on the brainwashing in progress!

Bumpy

Bumpy,

I would like to respond to some of your posts.

My first point is this: This is a message forum board and, frankly, one with a great deal of liberality when it comes to posting. As someone whom has had direct dealings with TWI by associating himself within their "household", it seems to me that you should know better than to toss out a salacious tidbit of information without any background information or independent verification. People involved with TWI were fed a diet of unsubstantiated claims and rumor. Much of what we experienced, as I imagine you, yourself, experienced, was the ignorance that came from having the information we were fed controlled by a small, invested group of people. This systematic deception has ignited, in some, a healthy desire for fact checking.

I am not saying I don't believe you. I neither believe nor disbelieve you, since in the absence of credible sources: newspaper citation, public record of charges, or other independent source of verification makes it impossible for me to evaluate your statements.

Here, for example, is an inconsistency I see in your posts. You write: "until about 1983 when the country coordinator for Norway killed two of his Norwegian believers (do you think he was possessed or was just a bad choice ?)" and then you write: "the (blonde) Way Corps girl who came to Norway the year in question was from Colorodo and her maiden initials were LP" I can see this could be interpreted in two ways: First, the girl from Colorado is one of the persons involved in this matter, and if that is so, she is not Norwegian...yet...you reference two Norwegian believers. Second, I suppose she might not have been involved and you're simply trying to show a context for your statements. Either way...an inconsistency.

(Here I'm going to interject something personal. I've been a writer for a long time, Bumpy, and my native language is English...I do my best to edit out spelling errors and grammatical mistakes, but we ALL make mistakes, and your condescending correction of LikeanEagle's word "dought" when obviously "doubt" was intended was simply rude. Considering I've now seen you make spelling and grammar errors, in more than one language, I would suggest that you quit throwing that particular stone...it demeans your argument and makes you appear as though you judge the validity of someone's words by their spelling skills...n'est ce pas? You're not the grammar police, so stop it.)

Now, on to other points. You say you're not surprised at the reaction, because most of us were asleep? In 1983 I was twelve years old and could no more smell the way international on my horizon than right now you can smell the scent of my shampoo. However, I've been trained to think critically, and people are most definitely not sleeping. Do you, I wonder, ever peruse with interest the goings on of small churches in, say, Pennsylvania? Because that's about the equivalent of what Norwegian news garners. You have been involved with twi long enough to know that information was always censored before being disseminated amongst believers and yet you seem to scoff because there was some expression of surprise to your claims. Pity, I would have thought you would have used better skills yourself and instead of tossing something clearly meant to be an inflammatory statement (and by inflammatory I mean simply that to cause or accelerate a conflagration), that you might have said something along the lines of, "Would it surprise you all to know that this happened, and here is my proof." My partner has been a journalist resident in Copenhagen for many years, and reports on events in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark and Iceland. I've written at the International Press Center, too, and my observation is that the standard of proof there is very much the same here, so, you shouldn't be surprised.

You are not a professor, or an instructor--at least, I'm not in your class--so, giving clues to where to find information is rather demeaning. If you have a claim, then make it. If you have proof, in this case public record, then offer it. I don't believe you are claiming that this is personal experience, in that, you were witness to the event, are you?

I will end by saying this...the more we have learned about the organization with which we were all once involved, the more shocked and disillusioned some of us have become. It is the because of the very nature of the crimes and abuses that have been perpetrated on innocent people, Bumpy, that many of us are very careful in forming our opinions based only on a few unsubstantiated statements. If we, at grease spot, become a society which merely jumps on the twi-burning bandwagon, willing to believe anything and everything that comes down the sewer-lines of the internet, then we have simply reverted back to the habits we had cultivated whilst we were involved in the cult. The shocking and horrible truths to which I refer are based on evidence: eye-witness accounts, public record, corroborated statements. Every false or exaggerated claim diminishes the impact of every true claim. I like that sentence, so I'm going to say it again: Every false or exaggerated claim diminishes the impact of a very true claim. I was fed enough lies by the way international never to assume the diet again. If your claim, because it is murder and in all the papers as you say, has substantiation, I find it very sad that you'd rather laugh and watch people jump through hoops of your design rather than merely be forthcoming with the material.

Or is it that you don't have the proof in hand, like source citations, and are simply too busy in your own life to look it up?

Now, this is not a legal forum, and we're not following rules of law here...but, it seems to me that instead of being so superior in your attitude and lecturing on the supposition that "possibly you can take some productive aspects of the spiritual Word knowledge you aquired and shape a better life for yourselves?" , you might just try cutting the rest of us some slack. You're not qualified to comment on the quality of life of anyone here. And, I might add, we're all doing the best we can. Some of us, I should think, are of the opinion that we're doing very well, indeed.

Regards,

QT

I'm going to change my signature line, I think, to read: Show me your data and I'll show you mine--then let's talk about the hypothesis.

*edited to correct my own spelling mistakes, 'cos I ain't perfick

When is your birthday QT and dm?

Love You Quiet Thinker, RainbowsGirl

Hehehe, unlike dm...I don't have goodies in my signature line! And just because I should be doing homework and am not...I will procrastinate just a little more and tell you that my birthday's in January...A winter girl, me. I'll send the date itself along later.

Yours not-doing-homeworkly,

QT

I'll second that, David...

Happy Birthday, dear Rainbow'sGirl...so glad you arc'd over our way!

((((R'sG)))

Yours festiviously,

~QT

Called HP again today and ran over everything once again.

otherwise

they can send me a new drive without the restore if I give them my credit card #.

Still under warrenty.

Strange goin on's at HP.

Hrmmm....Credit Card....Hrmmmm

So what are you....an idealist or a realist and why?

Cowgirl

I would suggest that there is a difference between realism, pessimism and good, ol' fashioned meanness and spite which some people employ to drag down others under the heading of "realist."

For myself, I am by training and nature a ruthless realist. I enjoy thinking about ideals, and I'm happy to hear other people's dreams and note their aspirations. But, for myself and my life, definitely a ruthless realist. I am as aware of what I am not, as what I am.

I think this could be an excellent topic...looking forward to reading more.

Cheers,

~QT

So you like Clint Eastwood too?

The Outlaw Josey Wales

Pardon my uncharacteristic exuberance, but Sweet! I am off the hook!

...and yes, yes I do :-)

Have at it, CA...and congrats on all your posts!

Yours Baton-Passingly,

~QT

What say ye?[/b][/size]

Oh dear! I say, waaaaay too far outta my league. But you have my utmost sympathy and I will be hoping someone here or elsewhere can get you sorted, CWF.

Yours fingers-crossedly,

~QT

People can fake illness or anything else that draws sympathy to them. ....

<center>sudo</center>

Sudo,

I wonder if you are familiar with the "Naked Tomato Debacle" that was making the medical blog rounds last year? A young woman with some serious problems set up a blog upon which she portrayed herself as a pediatric resident. Her blogs were very in-depth and fooled many practicing "fleas" who linked her and with whom she built a nice on-line support system. Eventually, illness and other increasingly dramatic situations occurred...finally, however, she was exposed and the blog was taken down. Many of the real doctors she fooled refused to believe they'd been deceived at first. However, to their credit, the vast majority of those same doctors sent her well-wishes and hopes for a recovery and a real life of her own.

The article reminded me of that.

I never knew catmandu as catmandu, though I was warned when he returned in another guise...

An interesting article, indeed, and should give us all pause for thought.

Respectfully,

~QT

Right, then...

The Film is: Ryan's Daughter.

I really didn't mean to throw up a stumper. I just really like Robert Mitchum films!

OK, so...dialing it back in....

I haven't read back far enough again to see when/if this movie has been around the block, but, because I want off the hot seat...here goes!

"Now remember, things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is. "

~QT

Yeeha! Happy Birthday, GS!

A mixed bag, for sure...but never dull!

Celebratingly,

QT

Speechless, but very thankful

yours lovingly,

QT

I feel a bit silly about now, Raf...

I'm far too young to have seen it in theatres, but it's one of my favorite movies.

I should have thought more carefully!

Yours fumblingly,

QT

ok...I'll just post these last lines, probably the most well known of the flick...then, I'll just go hide my head in shame

"Rose, you're mistaking a penny mirror for the sun. Do you not see that?"

"I see you always digging a low pit for yourself...when you should be standing on a heap of pride."

"You coming in here and saying what you did just now is the only cause I've ever had for pride."

No, Raf...Sorry...I'm beginning to wish I'd picked something easy and less obscure...you know...like something from Sweden :)

~QT

Hey Chef...

Look above, at Greasy's announcement at the top of the twi forum here.

There's a link to the obit and to the memorial thread.

Cheers,

QT

my god, if only the non-corps people knew the stuff LCM would say on a weekly/bi-weekly basis... TWI would have been finished.

QT, thanks for sharing.

Thank *you* for starting this thread...it has turned out well, I think :-)

Cheers, Nandon

~QT

OK, ok, ok....

Everyone knows that PurpleCow saved my computer. But, do you know how much I appreciate it?

I'm writing this post from my laptop, revived and saved with the help of so many grease spotters...and I owe a special, public thanks to PurpleCow, for talking me through it all.

If you have someone you want to thank for something, too...just add it on as inspiration strikes!

Yours thankfully,

~QT

awww I think Connie is a cutie........at a distance! Rottie's dog groomer owned snakes for eons. He used to breed rats in his dog grooming shop til he finally realized that wasn't a good thing for business. I'll have to bring this up to him next time I take my grrl in to get her nails clipped. It never ceases to amaze me what we people are capable of loving.

BTW why is it not ok to handle a freshly fed snake? Now you've got me curious.

I'm a fan of rotties, too. So, right back atcha :)

and...to answer your question about freshly-fed snakes...

Well, first. Once the feeding instinct kicks in, snakes will tend to just strike first and ask questions later. So, you present a warm rat, and then 20 minutes later your warm hand...they will likely strike.

Second, snakes don't move well on a full tummy. They like to relax and digest. But, if a predator were to approach (and a big ol' human is a threat to most snakes, even if you don't intend to eat them), the snake would "dump and slither" so to speak...and there's nothing more gross than cleaning up partially-digested, puked-up rat!

So, discretion being the better part of valour...leave the cuddles for the next day!

And thanks for the links and help, guys. She's been behaving normally all day. I do believe the lil girl will be just fine!

Yours relievedly,

QT

2. Scanning for and deleting the files

Start your Symantec antivirus program and run a full system scan.

If any files are detected as Adware.IEDriver, click Delete.

PS - Norton is a historian - it finds stuff AFTER you've got it on your computer. Try McAfee - I used to run both on my PC and really liked the McAfee...

I looked up the same instructions as Chas before I saw this post. Found the same thing. I'd also heartily recommend NOD32 Antivirus. I use it everywhere.

Unfortunately, it cannot stop my hair from invading my laptop! (But that's ok, as I'm putting PurpleCow on retainer!)

I feel awful about picking this movie, now...I'm going to try to post the most obvious quotes!

How about this one, then...?

"No, it's not a hanging matter to be young, but maybe it should be for an old man to take the youth away from a young girl. Especially a man like me and a girl like you. Rose, you were meant for the wide world, not this place, not this. Me? I was born for it."

Yours thread-killingly,

~QT :(

That poor soldier in number six. :(

:P

Too right, David....

You'd never catch ME leaving my tiramisu behind for any reason.

Which one glance at me should make obvious!

I just want to say thank you to everyone for your kind words. I will leave the post in hopes it may help someone else.

thanks again,

Everyone.

And Rainbow'sGirl, PM will be heading your way from me.

Yours thankfully,

~QT

*snirk*

I have a similar list here on my wall by the PC, Greasy. Thanks :-)

I have debated whether or not to reply to this thread.

While I have posted openly about my son's condition, and the general response to it, there are some things I've not said. Because they fit with the main thrust of this thread, I've decided to comment.

The most hurtful and profoundly ignorant statement made to me, uttered by the BC/LC in the presence of my FC, their respective families and myself was simply this: "Your initial mistake, like Eve, was to question during your pregnancy that something could go wrong. Your second mistake was placing too much trust in the medical establishment. While it is good that you've acted on your believing and started to seek therapists to help, the fact is you are too knowledgeable about Autism and Biology to effectively believe in this circumstance. It is your pride that prevents his healing."

To understand the context, then, I will explain that my son's diagnosis came at the end of my marriage, for practical purposes--a relationship that has only improved under the tincture of time, frankly, since separation.

I, being familiar with twi lingo asked, "Why are you speaking to me alone about this? I assume you have no problem with then-hubby's believing. Isn't he the head of the family? Doesn't his believing cover?"

The reply was: "You've done something, somewhere...somehow you've undermined him and made his spiritual effect powerless."

These were things spoken to me, in my home.

However, at meetings, especially Limb Functions I was bombarded with phrases like by the. very. same. people.:

"Won't it be great when you wake up and your little boy is healed? We're all believing with you!"

"Deliverance takes time, but I just know that if we all pray for healing now, by the time he's 5 he'll be in regular kindergarten!"

"Don't really think about what his doctor's say; we have THE WORD and we can overcome them!"

By the time he was 2 and I'd forgotten what regular sleep was, I think if one more syrupy-smiled, doe-eyed do-gooder had come up to me and said, "Don't worry, QT! I've prayed about this and God showed me that your son will be healed!" ... I would have punched his/her/its teeth out.

Make no mistake, at first especially, driven by maternal instinct I'm sure, I wanted my son to be instantly "delivered from this affliction."

It has taken me years of study and observation to come to the conclusion that while his different wiring and neurological functions make it difficult for the general society to understand him, that he is a complete, functioning, whole little person. He is not afflicted. He is not possessed (I never believed that crap). He is himself. No more or less anything other than. himself.

Because he is not verbal in the sense that most of us understand, and because he is not interested in the same things most kids his age are, he certainly is different. The deficits and behaviors that he exhibits which place him toward the lower end of the Autism Spectrum mean nothing more than data points that taken together form a diagnosis.

However, to be lambasted for my specific knowledge was cruel and wrong. To lessen my son's humanity, to make of him a non-person (because, yes, my LC called him "A little beast, he's an animal, all instincts and no brains, no reasoning") was also wrong. TWI, like many groups wanted uniformity and conformity.

Many of the well-meaning, sincere people, with gentle and kind hearts motivated only by love were very happy to pray and "believe with me." None of them babysat for me once...not ever...unless I paid a teenager to do it. Of course, in paying them, I was "believing" to get a shower so I could wash my hair without worrying whether or not my son had managed to dismantle the door locks again. (He was an animal and apparently it must have been animal cunning that allowed him to work out how to do THAT, it certainly couldn't have been reasoning capability! )

I was asked, at first, to give progress reports...so that leadership could update the household on our believing progress. That stopped fairly quickly. I suppose my son wasn't a bright enough star to accomplish that, though.

Please understand, many many people really wanted to see us "delivered" from what they saw as a terrible tragedy. The did care. I'm not belittling that.

But...I saw those gleeful glances. Oh, yes. Oh, yes I did. Those expressions were very communicative. They said, "Here's our chance to activate the power of God and make this kid whole...then the WORLD will know! They'll know!"

I also saw the relieved, nervous glances that said, "I'm so relieved that's not my kid. I could never live like that."

Finally, I saw the less kind, more accusatory glances, and heard the words from top to bottom..."Poor kid, what did SHE do to make him turn out that way."

Speaking as the parent of a child with what people call a disability, and pretty severe one, I can say that what bothered me most was that my son became a symbol. His innate humanity, his unique individualism was discarded and he became nothing more than an opportunity for greater believing and potential example of ultimate deliverance.

Would I, a writer and science-geek, love to have long conversations in a language I can understand with my child? Yes. Would I like to know what's bothering him? Of course. Would I like to experience, even just one single time, the feeling of hearing him call me, "mom"? More than any of you who have not faced this situation will ever realize.

When I left twi, and left behind the warped sense of reality it came with, I was almost instantly able to connect with my son in a profound way. He does not speak meaningfully apart from a few words, but his expression shows every human emotion we can all experience. I am aware of his love and his desire to be a part of my life. I can easily see when he wants to be around his sister and when he wishes she would just drop dead. I have seen his exultant joy when he discovers something new, like today when he realized how to dismantle the refrigerator lock so he could eat ALL the pudding in the house while I was, again, in the shower.

When I left twi behind, I left behind the notion that my child is defective, broken, damaged goods. I've discovered that both of my children, without enforced way-robotics, experience the world in a unique way and, frankly, I learn more from them in what people might consider a "broken" state, than I would otherwise.

My family was delivered, all of us, from people who marginalized our existence and insisted that we were in need of changing.

Don't feel sorry for us. We're doing ok, and we'll keep on doing better...because we have each other.

My daughter chooses this song for our family. I think it fits.

Yours parentingly,

~QT

If you read this far...I'm amazed. I am still of mixed emotions about sharing this. I may decide to remove it later.

*edited to add The The tune

This is my little Colombian Red Tail, Connie...

Last night, something happened I have never experienced before, and I've had snakes for a while.

During feeding, she missed the rat-pup when she struck and caught her one of her teeth on her own skin. I watched her for a few minutes, as she extricated her jaw from herself. She was really very clever about it. Then, she struck the rat pup and polished it off quickly.

I inspected her this morning. (I never handle a freshly fed snake). She seems ok. I used blunt forceps to remove the tiny tooth lodged in her skin. The hole left behind is extremely small, pinhead sized. I am not concerned about infection, really, though I have increased the heat and humidity in her vivarium.

For any other reptile owners...has this ever happened to you? If so, were there complications? I think she will be fine...and I know many people are little more concerned with a snake injury than they are about swatting a mosquito. However, if there is anyone who's had this happen with a pet and had a subsequent complication, I'd be interested to hear.

She's my little buddy...I want her to be ok.

Yours herpetologically,

QT

Oh, yes it was George...definitely in theatres...but I don't think it's a give away to say not currently in theatres...

ok, another line...

"Aren't the police a dirty lot, hobnobbing with British soldiers!"

"I heard that, Maureen Cassidy"

"You were meant to, Constable O'Connor."

~QT