Eyesopen

You are right, I am upset that he had the nerve to post what he did and just like Paul did I am confronting him to his face! Let him answer for himself. It is not about you please do not take it that way.

I'm not taking it personal. But I'm also not answering for him. Please do not assume that I am. He's a big boy he can take care of himself. As can I.

Have a nice evening Neo, I truly hope you get the confrontation that you are looking for...your words not mine.

That reply was not meant for the majority here at grease spot. I am only talking to one person! Let him answer for himself!

Wow, you seem to be wound a little tightly. I dont recall anything in my post that was "answering" for DWBH it was simply an observation. An observation that I made on a post that you placed in a public forum. Now you dont want anyone to comment on it? Seems like perhaps if you want to talk to DWBH, you appear to know him if so then why not just give him a call? Why address your concerns in public if you dont want an audience?

thanks garth

ps. billy sat next to me in class and when we came in on monday, sister clotilde had placed a HUGE BLACK CROSS on his desk

(that's just besides the point) although it does kinda' go with cruelty

Actually I think that is kinda creepy....

I am sorry for not replying to this sooner! Who do you think you are? How dare you come in here and puke your garbage! I for one believe what Dr. taught, and if you have a problem with that why don't you tell the others who you are? If anyone should apologize it should be you! In addition, maybe you need to learn how to write! Go back and reread what you wrote! Bless you! :off topic:

Reminds me of Whoopie in Sister Act..."Bless you, Eddie!"

The parallel I'd make is that both were adulterers, both had great messages, and the messages are worth considering and repeating despite their sins.

Hmmm...seems to me that to have that in common with someone is personally embarrassing but for others to know that you had it in common and were talking about it 20+ years after you had died is pathetic.

Since we are speaking of things in common Dooj noted:

And both messages are viewed both with admiration and disdain - depending on who you speak to.

The same could be said for Marx, Hitler, Paul the Apostle and Jesus the Christ. But I am fairly certain that the last three were not adulterers...I could be wrong. But they all had a message that someone thought was worth listening to. So lots of folks have stuff in common...BFD...can we get back to the topic now?

BTW, I still have my camping gear. I'm not sure what that means... :blink:

Eyesopen, thanks for your comment about my personal experiences. It is appreciated.

Regarding Rascals posts, has it ever occured to you that my attacks against Rascal's posts are giving them credence and respect enough for a detailed response? As opposed to your statement, "you are not worth that much energy to me". Well for me, Rascalian Theology is worth responding to! I think that's better than putting her posts on ignore or saying her posts aren't worth that much of my energy.

You are welcome OM, I always endeavor to give due credit and remain fair. In light of that please notice that I did not say that your posts aren't worth that much of my energy, the context was looking up old posts looking for specific items. That would be a very time consuming task and the benefit does not outweigh the effort.

I still don't think that "Rascalian Theology" is appropriately named, nor do I think that the focus on Rascal has much to do with honest interest in her views. But if you insist on jumping on that train then be my guest, however please be aware that I will diligently point out the obvious whenever it presents itself. And just for the record I always find Rascal worth responding to irregardless of her theologies or anything else. I also find your imput interesting as well, when it does not appear that you are just stiring the pot to see what rises to the surface.

DWBH...I see no reason for "reproof" in fact I agree with Exie, Wow! Very nicely said. But if you want I will slap your hand for you...just hold it out to the nice little shark...

Eyesopen, if you saw love in a person, joy in Christ, peace in Christ, gentleness, goodness, etc. and Rascal who wasn't even there said it was a counterfeit; I think you too may be asking many questions and seeking specific clarification of that position.

The bottom line is, and I'll say this as nice as I can: Rascal doesn't know what the heck she's talking about with respect to my experiences.

OM, I will grant you that as the truth. She doesnt know anything about your personal experiences. This truism applies to everyone. Including you, who I have personally seen tell others on this board that their personal experiences are not valid. Regardless of what you say concerning "Rascalian Theology" not being a personal attack I for one am not buying it. Rascal's theology is not so different than many posters here and yet you have chosen to brand it as Rascalian which implies that she is the author of it. That is very presumtious. Time and again you have singled out Rascal's posts and disregarded dozens by others to attack only hers. That Sir is personal. Call it what you want.

And before you do your usual twist and shout...no I will not bother looking up the many posts in which you have attacked others because simply put...you are not worth that much energy to me.

Rascal I and many others do not seem to have any trouble understanding you. You are quite clear. So the reason that others do not understand you can be for two reasons that I see...either they simply cannot understand for some unrelated reason or they choose to simply not understand because of some unrelated and personal reason. Either way there is little you or anyone else can do about it.

And to WTH...all I can say to your post is What the Hey! Wow! After all this time and you still cling to a man and his erroneous doctrines. I'm just shaking my head here in utter disbelief or rather in sheer wonder.

Wow I lay low for a few weeks and lo and behold this thread goes nutso...great for squirrels but..

I don't want to throw too many dogs out into the fight but I had to point this out as it is becoming a distraction from the topic. Both OM and Mike have repeatedly asked Rascal to "define" her doctrine. They also asked some others to define their issues. To WW this was said by OM concerning his doctrinal "take" on things.

Even if we don't agree, it's good to hear folks clarify their position about it.

Rascal, it isn't straight forward when you say someone is viewing a counterfeit and you are viewing the genuine. You haven't explained how to detect the genuine. All you did here was list fruit of the spirit from scripture without showing how to identify that fruit. Until you do, its more hot air.

Isn't it interesting that when Rascal quotes a section of scripture that seems fairly straight forward and has been hashed and rehashed in this thread and many others it is considered "more hot air" by Om? Yet others have pointed out the same obvious points concerning these verses time and again just in the last few pages, (WW and Dooj come to mind) and the same comment is not made to them.

Am I the only one that is recognizing a personal attack here? Perhaps Rascal should just read for a while and see if OM and Mike have anything that they would like to address from other posters? Just a thought from the couch...

Carry on.

Like what's the big deal? It's next to England...right?

This is very cool Paw. Thanks I'm looking forward to hearing it and reading the book.

I was like Oak, I never scratched things out so I could no longer read them. My bible was a gift from a dear friend. It sits in a place of prominance on its own stand in my bedroom and I use it often. For the most part I ignore the colorful notes in the margins in part because they were written with younger eyes and my aging ones find the words difficult to make out.

I have all three of the bibles that saw me throught my time in twi and all three were gifts. They are all well cared for like any other book in my house. I suppose if some phsyc class wanted to study my margin filled bible they would be welcome to do so but for me I still use the darn thing for my own study. The way that I view it today has changed from what twi taught me, but it is still a valuable tool and I treat it with respect.

Now. This is an amazing thing. Do you know, Excathedra how things here would go down if I were to say to you the same thing, as in this manner?:

If I were to say that to you, I think that Pawtucket just might kick me out for that.

Okay, so you think I am on a path of destruction. I will just say that I hope you have a nice day! Mmwwaahh! :)

Jonny I'm not sure that Exie is saying that you are Now on a path of destruction. I think she was refering to your comment about having been on one and Sunesis and folks like her helped you out of it.

At least that's how I read it..

I left the way in 1999 and since then I have often questioned the authenticity of what I was taught about speaking in toungues, is it real, is it a real gift of God and proves my salvation? I still speak in tognues from time to time but how do I know it is real? And what about the other manifestations? Are they what we were taught them to be. I have thought on these things and wrestled with them so heavily that I know have to be on antidepressents because I am unsure if I am even saved. I believe there has to be a God, but since I left the ministry, I feel like I have no connection with Him, was this all a sham. anyone please help me here, I am at my wit's end.

You have some serious questions here my friend. There are a ton of things written about these very subjects here on this site. But you obviously want answers now or you wouldnt have started a thread. So my opinion is speaking in tongues is real. Some have admitted to making it up all those years ago but that does not negate the authenticity of it. VP taught us that the manifestations were given to every man as he the man willed. That is not true it was as God willed. Hence not everyone gets all of them, in fact there is not much reason for everyone to manifest all 9 all the time. That was a pile of you know what. When one is recieving word of wisdom why would one need to interpret tongues? It never made any sense the way twi taught.

We were all of us scammed by a master scammer. But the Bible is not a scam nor is God. Again this is my opinion, others do not share it.

Are you saved? I think that this should be likened to the analogy that if a man asks if he is crazy then he is not. If you are earnestly asking and desire a relationship with God then you probably are born again. But this is a personal journey that you must take on your own.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to ask. There is also a great deal of information floating around this site that may help with some of your questions and confusion. Try the search feature at the top right of your page or the front page of the site. Both are wonderfully helpful. I hope you find your answers.

I wonder if they got the idea from my little write up..

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...+good+men+women

Well if it all goes to he!! in a hand basket we will know which hunting season is open...

OKCity, I'm sorry I misunderstood your time line when I read the original post. Thanks for clearing that up. Sounds like you did what you could with the information. I was just wondering, not attacking. Believe me if the shark decides to attack you will know it and this is not what I am doing right now.

In fact this whole idea that you have brought up about "revelation" or something similar has me thinking about the whole "profit" angle that vp taught. If (and that is a big IF) vp was correct that revelation is given when there is profit then is it safe to assume that the profit could be for the individual and who they may personally touch in their lives? As an alternative not opposed to the thought that the profit was only for the entire body or for the sole purpose of changing the outcome of the vision. You may recall that vp gave the example of J. D!xon when she got the vision that Kenn@dy would be shot. He said that she got the information from ds because she chouldnt do anything to stop it. I dont know if I believe all that stuff now but you get the idea of where I'm coming from.

So what's all this got to do with the orginal topic? I dont know, it was just a question.

Waysider, I have never for one second disbelieved you when you related what you saw. That it was a vision and not actually physically seeing the man do these things made no difference to me. I actually physically saw him do something that to me was far worse than giving me the bird but it amounted to the same thing. I did what you did, I told someone and consequently was told to renew my mind. I totally relate to your acceptance of what they told you was correct over what you knew was correct. That's what I did, but I never forgot what I had seen. I just disregarded it.

I just love how you got into the manifestations, so natural and comfortable. I think that is how it is supposed to happen. Somehow I just cant picture Paul running a class to get people (those who can) to SIT.

As for the young VP, I have read the site and his personal page at "that other site". He sounds like he really wants to help people. If some of you have some advice to give him I think he would listen if it wasnt laced with arsenic. Remember he only bears his grandfather's name...

I gotta say that this is a crazy thread!

So having read the entire thing I have this question of Mr. OK City: Upon receiving such a vivid revelation what did you do with the information? Did you run away, did you dismiss it as too much rat poison in the kool-aid? What did you do with it?

I am not trying to attack you but I am wondering because of what twi taught concerning such "revelation". Where's the profit? Isn't that what we were taught? If you didnt try to change the vision into something good or could not change the vision then why were you given it? Kind of makes a person rethink everything twi taught concerning the manifestations.

I do not disbelieve anyone when they tell me that they got some revelation that manifested in a vision. But I am curious what a person does with such a vivid vision. It would have scared the daylights out of me.

Now as for Jonny's little "revelation" of that website...all I can say is "And the beat goes on..." Unbelievable.

On the other hand, if he really is trying to help some folks then I agree that he needs to dump the Corps principals and go with something a bit more from the heart and perhaps more "Spirit" minded. But I could be prejudice here.

Edited 'cause Swatratra took my ability to spell when she left...

(Sorry I couldnt find a spot for any spiders...but she'll do)

Deja Vu!

And THAT was just going from memory? Very nice!

Thanks, I think that was the most succint explanation of that particular clause that I have ever read.

(Having said that, it's far better to stress on what is common vice what splits us and then move forward)

Now that is a wonderful idea! BYOB= bring your own Bible!

That is incredibly good news! Congratulations!

Jeff if I had time to tell you the entire story behind this guy and all that he did...but I thank you for taking me at my word with what little I have told you and how little you actually know me. That is something that I personally havent experienced in quite a while. Thank you.

Truly some of the folks in that twig would have probably resorted to violence had I not "stolen" them away and he did not fight me at all in the matter. He was probably glad to see us all go. As it was a few years later (after I had officially left) he kicked my aging mother out of twig because she wouldn't stop talking to 10 of her 11 children, including me. He was a real gem!

You know that hypocrite had the huevos to attend her wake? Grrr!!!

Ok so...sorry about the derail...continue on...

I saw legalistic elements right from the start. But I thought they were either rare, or specific and for a good reason, or something I could fix from the inside out. --- I was wrong on all counts.

Join the club.

So Jeff wants some stories huh?

Ok, I've got a few minutes...

One time in band camp...wait...wrong story....Ok here we go...

One winter not too many years before I departed, I was attending a fellowship with mom just to be with mom. The fellowship folks suggested that we go out and do some pre-"ho ho" caroling. Our TC got out a Christmas song book and passed it around. "Let's choose some songs to sing". It was all very cozy. We had all known each other for many years and although I had been in the Corps I was not trying to take over anything (I was as I said on my way out). But my indifference allowed my TC to be somewhat comfortable with me there.

Anyway, several fellowships passed and each time the caroling idea was brought up it was promptly forgotten by the TC. Finally the entire fellowship cornered him after twig one night and asked him if we were going to go caroling together or not as Christmas was fast approaching. Basically he told us that we didnt sound good enough to go out caroling and he would be embarrassed to be seen with us. He was very good at acting superior.

One could not be seen in public if one was not dressed correctly, including the expensive shoes and if one opened their mouth one must not draw disfavorable attention to oneself. It was the law here for quite a while. There were lots more laws, like: never get caught by another believer in a casino (So why was he/she there to catch you? The whole "I got revelation" thing didnt fly with me.) We weren't allowed to work in a casino for any reason. But we had to find enough money to purchase our clothing at Macy's.

Shortly after this incident I started my own twig again and took a good portion of his twig with me. I didnt ask. I just did it. Who was the BC that was going to argue with me the former AC? Is that elitism or using the power that they gave me to do what I felt was right?

So how far am I?

The one thing that twi was very good at was taking everything, good and bad, to the extreme. Hence if it wasnt bad to begin with...you sure were wondering about it later.