WOG

By the way, it seemed to me that when he spoke in tongues in the class, he was saying the same thing over again. "Lo shanta, ala ma seeta...etc. Gosh, I hope I didn't spell anything wrong in that last sentence.

I heard him ONCE. And the above is exactly what it sounded like. I remember thinking it sounded just like him in the class (memorized?). It definitely sounded, the thought I had at the time was, immature and like he hadn't had much practice.

i'm putting this discussion here because it has a lot to do with the way international in my life because the way international made fun of charities and giving to charities or doing charitable work so much that i saw a lot of people being very hard hearted about giving and would tithe and give offerings only if they were "operating believing" to get something back from god like he was a geenie in the magic lamp to command or something, not like giving was a gift to the giver more than it was a gift to the receiver, but anyway this also has a lot to do with being asked "where is the compassion" and feeling like i was in the way international again and being cornered and badgered into making myself accountable to somebody else's definition of acceptability and that somebody else had no clue about me and my life whatsoever, and i had the feeling that some others felt the same way, so i thought about what if people had the chance to blow their own horns a little bit?

so even though i don't get on here or anywhere else and shout it from the prayer forums or any other forum or anything, i go to hospice and i also go to the "welfare" hospitals and sit with "unclaimed" people that have no visitors or support outside of the hospital staff and stuff like that. it's something i started doing when i grew up after experiencing up close and personal all my life how the way international abandoned sick and dying people after having isolated them from friends and family for decades. and it's hard work a whole lot of the time because people are dying and are very sick and when i'm the only person they have to talk to or am the last person to hear their last words, well that's hard a lot, but it's also a place of honor in their lives that they will let me in like that, and it's like very holy and i get to see glimpses of what i can only imagine might be the closest thing to a supreme being i'll ever get and it's scary and it's holy and it's moving and it's draining and it's hard and it's intimate and it's beyond the sum total of them and me every single time. so that's my horn to blow. what's yours?

I think what you are doing is admirable and I'm sure you are doing it for completely altruistic reasons. I applaud you! For me, I have spent some time taking care of myself in recent years. At some point, I'm sure I will get back into volunteer work of some sort and find a way to give back to the universe. Your experiences remind me of an incredible book I picked up at the library about a month ago that got me thinking. It's Stan Goldberg's Lessons for the Living: Stories of Forgiveness, Gratitude, and Courage at the End of Life. It was in the new book section. I pretty much devored it. Being a companion to the dying has got to be tough work, but Goldberg said it was probably the most revealing and enlightening window into his own soul that he had ever experienced. Good for you for discovering a way to give that also gives back and enriches your own inner wholeness.

have you ever heard the term "recipe for disaster"? so i'm thinking "it takes a recipe to make the koolaid so why would anybody put those ingredients together ever again?" why do people want to rekindle friendships, make new friendships or even marry people that were in the same or even another cult? i've always wondered how it worked out for such people and the one example i've got to "watch" is showing that it makes the koolaid. i just don't get it.

Yet, there were so many GOOD people involved with the way international! I hear what you're saying, brainfixed, and understand it! To search out people who used to be affiliated with the way, for that reason, wouldn't make sense. And I don't! But, true friends, as someone said, are truly a gift of God. Those friends are some of my nearest and dearest, and I would never desert them. In fact, my life would not be the same without them.

Finally found this thread again. Excellent point Groucho. It should be a "individual and private journey", shouldn't it?

Toxic relationships, toxic jobs, toxic faith; all should be examined privately, as well, and determined personally as to what is and is not in our own best interest.

I didn't do the quiz in this thread, don't need to. And I appreciate the reality of growing older and stronger in my own ability to make my own choices and take my own actions. Nice place to be.

Yes, it is!!!!!

Here are just a few:

The mafiosos who were "hiding" at hq because the mafi@ would kill them for becoming Christians if they found out.

The branch leader who taught everyone in the way home about there being 150 different kinds of weeds in the yard that we could eat if we had to if the illuminati took over.

The next branch leader who had extreme b.o. ... didn't believe in using antiperspirant...and ended up marrying someone from Poland. Are still blissfully together by all accounts :)

I vividly remember "doctor" teaching MLK, Jr. went to communist party meetings several times when he was young...the implication being that he was one.

I also believe that any church should be working both in its community and at least donating to other groups who are helping the poor and/or spreading the gospel. They should also be helping their own when they have a need. Any church or ministry that is not doing this is not really following the word as I understand it. It's interesting when Judas left the others thought he was leaving to give to the poor. Why would they think that if it was not something that they regularly did?

Good point. I think it's pretty safe to say that no one would mistake a splinter ldr leaving with the intent of giving to the poor.

I'm sure I'm the only one who fell for this one...free pastry with beverage b4 10:30am tomorrow at Starbuck's. Right????? :B)

What have I done with what I knew. Hmmm, maybe become a two-fold child of hell than they are themselves.

:huh:

Great topic, Tazia.

In addition, I've often wondered to what degree do people in cults suffer from obsessive compulsive tendencies? In other words, once we/they find something interesting to them, they find it difficult to disengage and move on to the next topic? I think I lean in this direction sometimes.

We do what we can, JT. Nice to see you and thanks for saying thanks!

QUOTE

Yes, there was more doctrinal error than I ever realized while I was in TWI, and there was corresponding practical error that became more evil than most of us involved ever imagined. Yes, many precious people were terribly abused. Yes, there was dishonesty about Scripture, there was plagiarism, and there was rampant sexual sin, all of which contributed to many people choosing to turn away from God and His Word.

Great post, skyrider. I assume this quote was from JAL. Just one clarification. THe rampant sexual sin was within the top tiers of leadership. The majority of the regular corps and believers didn't even know it was going on.

very nice, Roy.

Nice!

Anyone know how to get in touch with Bert?

Horrors!

Picture this: As an adult, I allow other adults to be between me and Jesus...AGAIN!

CES and its offshoots call it your "covering."

Reality: Same lemonade stand. Different sign.

Result: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

ROFLMAO, Hamm!!!!!

...how interesting...

It's so refreshing to think for oneself, isn't it, and not want to fit in...

having a monopoly on God is tongue in cheek I suppose...

is if anyone could...

sounds like you've learned...drum roll...you have no monopoly on God......

I highly approve :B)

Well.. I kind of think of it as a model. It is a strange mixture of some eastern philosphy, mathmatics and some Budhism, plus a few other philosophies. At the moment, the model is about the best fit to the world as I see it.

So many different opinions, maybe that's why I don't exactly fit in at any one place..

I can usually can find at least one point where I would agree with anybody..

why not?

I have a few other theories about some of this..

"ham's theory of light, and the repulsion of the same kind of forces"

For what it's worth..

I think we are beings of light, and were once one entity.. now we're fragmented. We long for the "belonginess" we had, but we also desperately need our individuality. I think existence here is a paradox of sorts.. we need the oneness, yet we also require the individuality to exist in this particular life. So there is a repulsion of sorts.. and the repulsion is slightly greater than the attraction.

I think the connection people desperately want, they can't truly have.. not in this life.

*so ham goes, wearing his protective tin beanie, muttering to himself as he goes..*

Well, my tin hat is not inferior to anybody elses here..

What religion is that? Is this one you just made up?????

While I was there I...

Slapped water on my face to wash away the shame

Clapped away devil spirits during a public declaration

And when the conference was ending,

I received a "double portion of blessing" for picking up all the ripped up papers that the audience had written their sins on and cast them to the floor

My challenge...

Can you top this?

While you are probably thinking about recommending a good counselor for me right now, let me tell you about my fortune cookie I just opened...

You have an ability, to sense and know higher truth.

(That's deep :))

Imagine, I think you've hit on something here. All of this is BIG with Evangelicals now. Are they finding a need in people and filling it or do they get people into all of this to disarm them?

Christians, they stress, must be in a submitted relationship to be taken seriously. In other words someone must be above you or between you and the Lord. And to be submitted you must go to them for advice. Sound familiar?

What was it Martin Luther stressed? The Christian per the scriptures can go directly to God and does not need the Catholic Church to do it for them.

Hum, direct relationship with, to, between you and God, Jesus.

Is this what The Way took away from us while we were with them?

They told us we had a NEED to have someone between us and God, didn't they?

Well, that's what Evangelicals do too. Lots of the same stuff in their meetings....

I agree with that.

but they presented themselves as the Family of God so we would...help me out here...feel bound to them??

I'm exploring the relationship between the concept of reflection and illusion...

could it have been that the illusion they presented somehow dovetailed as the reflection of the love, hope, purpose, stability that we hadn't articulated but always wanted??????

Thanks JavaJane, Act2,

Bluegrass festival sounds fun, Act2.

Churches, groups that offer stability, "THE answers", and are rather adamant that they are indeed "right".. I just can't go there.. I think the stability of the beliefs are an illusion..

pretty much think that the connection and stability these groups claim to offer is not real.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Nicely put. "The stability of the beliefs are an illusion."

The stability IS an illusion.

Hum, the stability is an ILLUSION...

forgive me, still chewing on this one...

So you needed the support system of an extended family so to speak?

That's what it felt like to me and maybe that's what I thought I needed the second time too.

Just thinking out loud...

...still trying to figure it out...