starbird

he that has seen Me has seen the Father. because he was in his image not because he is god, he was carrying out gods will..on earth. if a child looks like a parent you here people say he's/she's the model of her/his mother/father. yes i agree about the same species thing...but they are different as in roles..they are not the same being..god is the father jesus his son

plain and simple jesus is gods son.... thats how god identified jesus.. all the human points of view on this subject does not change that.. "concerning that day and hour nobody knows, niether the angels of the heavens nor the son {jesus} but only the father" {matthew 24:36} if jesus and god were the same being, jesus would know the day and hour. but here he specifically says he does not know, only the father knows.. "look! also, there was a voice from the heavens that said "this is my son, the beloved, whom i have approved" {matthew 3:17} "a revelation by jesus christ which god gave him to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place" {revelation 1:1}

ROTFL.. :) starbird x x x

apparently they do believe in heaven and hell..it differs slightly from how christians believe in them..but they do believe in both starbird x x x

so what religion was moses and abraham.. satan was around at the begining {if you believe the bible} dont those who practice judaism believe in the old testament? "then jehovah said to satan " where have you come from" at that satan answered jehovah and said "from roving about in the earth and walking about in it" {job 2:2} starbird x welcome eyesopen love your pic starbird x x x

yes nadia good points they have been noted...i wouldnt have organs... starbird x if you dont mind, can i ask why you would still rather not have a transfusion starbird x x x

no it dosnt mean blood tests.. jws have to be well informed so that they can make their own conscientious decisions. e.g: cell salvage...reduces blood loss.. blood is recovered during surgery from a wound or body cavity. it is washed and filtered and then, perhaps in a continuous process returned to the patient... hemodilution...reduces blood loss.. during surgery, blood is diverted to bags and replaced with a non-blood volume expander. thus the blood remaining in the patient during surgery is diluted, containing fewer red blood cells. during or at the end of surgery, the diverted blood is returned to the patient. heart-lung-machine...maintains circulation.. blood is diverted to an atificial heart-lung machine where it is oxygenated and directed back to the patient. dialysis...functions as an organ. in hemodialysis, blood circulates through a machine that filters and cleans it before returning it to the patient. epidural blood patch...stops spinal fluid leakage... a small amount of the patients own blood is injected into the membrane surrounding the spinal cord. it is used to seal a puncture site that is leaking spinal fluid. plasmapheresis..treats illness.. blood is withdrawn and filtered to remove the plasma,a plasma substitute is added , and the blood is returned to the patient. some doctors may use plasma from another person to replace that from the patients blood. if so this is unacceptable for jehovahs witnesses. labeling or tagging...diagnoses or treats illness.. some blood is withdrawn mixed with medicine and returned to the patient. the length of time ones blood is outside the body may vary. platelet gel; autologous{meaning made from your own blood}..seals wounds, reduces bleeding some blood is withdrawn and concentrated into a solution rich in platelets and white cells this solution is applied on surgical sites or wounds.. {in some formulations a clotting factor taken from cows blood is used}so before having this treatment this would have to be checked the reason for not storing own blood is the amount of time it might be stored outside the body. the flow being interupted..again this would be a personal decision of conscience. it is each ones own decision on what treatment to recieve {apart from someone elses blood} and no one is critisized for what ever decision they come to..the decision must be our own..{apart from someone elses blood} "each one will carry his own load" of responsability. {gal.6:4,5} starbird x x x

hang on a minute...hold your horses... what was the first religion...judaism.. if you believe in god then you believe he created the earth the whole adam & eve thing. in the very begining satan {the original serpent} was around then... before the egyptians. other false gods came into the equation later..as a way for satan to take people away from worshipping the only true god..look at all the different gods that egyptians had, the romans, the greeks, the babylonians.. "for this is what jehovah has said, the creator of the heavens, he the true god, the former of the earth and the maker of it, he the one who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited; "i am jehovah, and besides me there is no one else" {isaiah 45:18} "for all the gods of the peoples are valueless gods as for jehovah, he made the heavens" {1 chron.16:26} starbird x x x

i dont think the jehovahs witnesses are corrupted..but thats not to say none of jehovahs witnesses sin we all sin every day they know that as much as anyone.. i put my faith in god...not the watchtower society.. i have regard for them of course.. because i think they have the right doctrine of the bible.. i read the bible more..i study the watchtower and other books as an aid to the bible. what i mean by mans traditions is patriotism..etc i think the watchtower and other study books are written by men who are inspired by god. by inspired i mean motivation by divine influence. so the bible is more inspired as god and jesus actually spoke to the prophets and writers of the bible its not that you need a watchtower to explain the bible...the writers of the watchtower write on subjects that are relevent for things that are happening... of course god dosnt want to destroy anyone he loves us all we are his creation "however let this one fact not be escaping your notice, beloved ones that one day is with jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain repentance" {2peter 3:8,9} "i jehovah, am your god the one teaching you to benefit yourself, the one causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk. O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! then your peace would become just like a river and your righteousness like the waves of the sea. and your offspring would become just like the sand and the descendants from your inward parts like the grains of it. ones name would not be cut off or annihilated from before me" {isaiah 48:17-19} starbird x x x

"to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols AND from blood AND from things strangled AND from fornication. if you keep yourselves from these things you will prosper. good health to you" {acts 15:29} i know what its says in acts the reason i didnt put the strangled and fornication bit was because i was just making the point that the blood thing was still important to early christians. it says all four things should be abstained from. your other comments have been noted....as i said earlier i'll take my chances, you take yours.... as i said i'm not judging anyone i'm not worthy to judge anyone.. its my belief so i wrote a post about it.. its not your belief..thats fine. starbird x

although jehovahs witnesses do not donate or store their own blood for transfusion purposes, some procedures or tests involving an individuals blood are not so clearly in conflict with bible priciples. therefore, each individual should make a conscientious decision as to whether to accept or reject some types of medical procedures involving the use of his or her own blood. starbird x x x

erm excuse me i have answered many times how i came to be here..... if you hadnt noticed i've been a bit snowed under.... i didnt duck that question at all why should i.....i told you on chat and many others. how i came to be here.. the reason i was on that ex jw site was i didnt realise it was ex jw at first. untill i read through a few posts..it dosnt say ex jehovahs witness on the title it just said jehovahs witness discussion..when i realised i left... and to think you were so nice to me on chat.... starbird

yes i was aware that they gave a date in the 70s.. and obviously were wrong.. they pinpointed the start of the last days 1914...i think that is about right when you look how things have panned out since then though.. i havent any ties with the way i came here by accident if you like.. i clicked on someones link on another forum something about mormans, and because i was involved with them i wanted to see what it was about.. and here i am... i'd never heard of the way before then.. how i look at the dates thing "no one knows the day or the hour" and we {people} can only go by the things that are happening and give a rough estimate. and as things in the world are unfolding i'm even more convinced.. people have said to me whens babylon going to fall..i think its already started.. nothing i see on the news surprises me anymore...especially whats happening with the muslim religion and other religions..now its like i'm half expecting things, when they happen. how long were you a jw for? if you dont mind me asking. starbird x x x

i've looked into and been part of many religions in the past, but i'd always be questioning certain things... then i started to talk to the jws...and that was it something just clicked, i read somethings especially on the propecies on the last days {world powers etc} and my blood would run cold.. i'm going back 25 yrs...things i learnt - slowly i could see starting to happen.. i'm convinced now absolutley convinced... i didnt go into it easily i gave them hell to start with.... for me, they are right. i looked into it took it apart and examined it. that was that... starbird x x x

i believe when we die we are dead/asleep. then after armaggedon the dead will be resurrected to life on earth. "the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all" {eccl.9:5} "his spirit goes out, he goes back to the ground; in that day his thoughts do perish" {ps.146:4} "we do not want you to be ignorant concerning those sleeping in death; that you may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope" {1 thess.4:13} "do not marval at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his {jesus} voice and come out" {john 5:28,29} "evildoers themselves will be cut off, but those hoping in jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth....The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace......The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it" {psalms 37:9,11,29} "happy are the mild tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth" {matthew 5:5} starbird x x x

:D :D :D starbird x x x

i'm getting so that i'm scared to say anything here by resurrection i mean....to be resurrected from death to life on earth. starbird x x x

why thanks belle for engaging with me where you might not normally. this place safe...you are kidding. i'm not claiming to believe, i do believe. so if i were catholic there wouldnt be a problem? for they defend what they are taught, as do methodists and others.i did lots and lots of research and thinking...in other so called religions i belonged to..thats what lead me to the jws.. you know the exact same thing happened to me while i was in the thick of being a mormon, this fog began clearing from my brain, as i kept questioning and defending their doctrine. i too kept running into roadblocks in my ability to defend it. as i said before im bound to talk in a way thats in line with my beliefs. you believe in the trinity- i dont..you believe we go to heaven when we die - i dont. you believe blood is ok - i dont.. its obvious i'm not going to talk as a catholic...because thats not the doctrine i follow. i'm sorry if you find me robotic and not very passionate.. but you're wrong on that & i'm very passionate about what i believe..and yes i'll defend it. the same as you all defend what you believe here. but when others say what they believe..nobody bats an eyelid..but when i do well thats it.. in for the kill.. starbird x x x

mark 7:15 dosnt say mouth and viens.... you are saying that the blood thing is just old mosaic law and all these scriptures here say its ok basically to do all the things that were once wrong.. "for the holy spirit and we ourselves have favoured adding no further burden to you EXCEPT THESE NECESSARY THINGS to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols AND from blood....{acts 15:28,29} so here the early christians did view this issue as still important. john 6:53. are you saying you litrally drink jesus's blood...and eat his flesh. do you think that jesus meant this litrally... "as they continued eating jesus took a loaf and after saying a blessing he broke it and giving it to the disciples, he said "take eat this means my body also he took a cup and having given thanks he gave it to them saying drink out of it all you for this means my blood of the covenant which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgivness of sins" {matthew 26:26-28} romans 14:3 says not to judge what another person eats/drinks i certainly dont judge what you or anyone chooses to eat or drink..that is your choice..you should not judge me and others what we choose not to eat/drink either. read a little further romans 14:11,12 for it is written: as i live says jehovah to me every knee will bend down and every tongue will make open acknowledgment to god. so then each one of us will render an account for himself to god. romans 14:14: only where a man considers something to be defiled to him is defiled. it wasnt man that decided that blood was wrong to eat or drink it was god that decided that.so here i dont think they were necessarily talking about blood. starbird x x x

sorry i misunderstood what you were saying...i thought you meant jws were not growing.. i dont see organizational growth as an indicator of divine approval.. i was just pointing out that they are increasing... starbird x x x combination please can you clarify starbird x x x

to gorp...... means to look at :) starbird x x x

bit of both :)

belle you really must keep up dear the blood thing: i have already answered the question how i see blood transfusions as bad as eating /drinking it. on my original thread. here it is again just for you.. if something is bad for you its bad for you.. if a doctor said that to eat a certain thing was bad for you do you think he would think it safe if it was given to you intravieniously... e.g heroin is bad for you we all know that right its like saying to an heroin addict its bad for you to snort heroin, but if you inject it its ok it wont be bad for you then. if something is bad for you its bad for you no matter how it gets there. the blood thing must be important to god for him to keep warning about it. the reason i bought up dna was just to show how our blood is unique to us. thats all. heres that bit again.. you and i may have the same blood group/type.. but our blood is different because of the dna..it was just to say our blood is unique to each of us thats all. i dont think i can contribute to a post more than anyone else. doctrine- a principle or belief; a teaching of a person school or church.. and seeing that all things on this doctrine forum are religious i'd presume...church..in this case. john 5: only goes up to 47...so which john do you mean? i dont see what matthew 15:11 has to do with blood.. matthew 15:8 " this people honours me with their lips yet thier heart is far removed from me. {9} it is in vien that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines {10}with that he called the crowd near and said to them listen and get a sense of it {11}not what enters into his mouth defiles a man; but what proceeds out of his mouth that defiles a man" if your saying this means the blood...you're saying jesus contradicted his father.. jesus here was talking about traditions eg not washing hands before a meal {matt 15:2} read the whole conversation belle from matthew 15:1 to matthew 15:11 starbird