RainbowsGirl

I might add that your points are all good...and well founded. I too see the great necessary to investigate whether what I was taught by anyone is valid or not. I just sometimes wonder whether if in our quest we may be fogging the issues or clarifing them??? It appears to me that in many ways the devil has accomplished his purpose in dividing us as through out all history. This is only my observations; and I am quite aware that I have no ability to address doctrinal issues. The results of the present divisions sadden me!

It still all-in-all is the methodology of the devil; no matter who he employs to do it. I see your points. I just sometimes wonder why they have to be made. I don't mean any offense to anyone and I respect your knowledge and understanding and research.

That was an interesting quiz! I'm Inland North.....all that I would question would be the "pop" versus "soda" reference; most people here in WI say soda...my guess would be about 85%. Although, mostly we just ask by the name brand...we are very concious of name brand here....

Gee Ca dreaming,

That sounds very good...I'm going to try it!

Thanks!

Love You RG

Linda,

Congradulations on quitting! I quit 2 yrs ago cold turkey! I tried to quit different ways...but that was the only way that worked for me....cuz if it were a gradual thing I knew that I would and could always find really legitimate reasons to light up. You have to chose the method that helps you. It's been over 2 years and I rarely have cravings. I am with You in heart and prayer!

((((((((((((((((Linda)))))))))))))

Love You, RG

ILB, What a stellar idea! I like the samples and I'm only 2hrs away from your Madison, WI. I'll check it out and the RR. show!

Josh and I, Thank Michael B. in Kansas for his gift of love that we recieved yesterday! We'll protect it and enjoy it forever!

I thank that God too that you QT started this post and for the oportunity to meet so many wonderful Grease Spotters......and you especially QT! You're an amazingly brilliant person, and a great friend!

Who is pouring the coffee today???

I also thank dmiller for his birthday post and I love that he can make flashing animated rainbows and hides treats in his signature...I sure wish we could hear you play sometime.!

I thank freeatlast too for being such a loving friend too and share her heart with me!

And thank God your fame is spreading here Purple Cow ...it's so nice to know that when your in need Great Hearts Show up! Can't get better than that!

Dear Sharon,

Your in our prayers too!!!!!!!!!! (((((((((((((Sharon)))))))))))))))))))! Your courage is amazing..May God give you strength in all the measure you need! Love, You!

Quite actually someone recently pointed out to me <_< That Neccessity is the the Mother of invention...so I stand corrected. Ahhh but when neccessity rears it's head I use my imagination! Just for the future sake..Please for forgive all my future errors(a lot to ask ..isn't it)...and thanks for enduring them...I am still a work in progress!

Love You All, RainbowsGirl

Happy Birthday Grease Spot!

Thanks Lindyhopper!

My best Birthday wishes to you too! I hope your birthday was realistically Ideal...Like mine was! I am exhausted now...I had far more candle to blow out than You Lindy so I'm going to bed now...Goodnight All!

Love You, RainbowsGirl

Hey dmiller,

I now thanks to you share your love and admiration for his music. I would like to hear you play... I'll bet your very very good,,cuz the fiddle is quite a challenge to play! Hope You...Hide more treats so we can hear You play!

Love You, RainbowsGirl

Your in Our Prayers Temple Lady!

Dear Quit Thinker,

Everything I know on the PC I learned by trial and error! I can't wait to learn how to make animated things and have goodies in my signature line...Hey at least you're well ahead of me with the UTube! That all impresses me so much. Thanks...Have a Great Night and don't work too hard!

Love You, RainbowsGirl

Wow dmiller,

That was so great and so well done! Is that you with the fiddle? We love music....and if we could.. let me know if it is for sale and how to get it. Josh's avenue for knowing God is through Godly music....and I will play that for him tomorrow! Thanks for the birthday treats!

Love You dm, RainbowsGirl

Happy Birthay Lindyhopper!

Hope that it was very special in everyway!

Love You, RainbowsGirl

Thank You soooo much Quiet Thinker.

Thanks for the Birthday wishes. It truly is my pleasure to know such outstand people! I enjoy all of your thoughts and wisdom and I admire your love and strength. I feel somewhat like a misfit in ways yet, as I only have known the truth about TWI for about 2 months. In ways I am still reeling and shocked! Thanks for welcoming me!

When is your birthday QT and dm?

Love You Quiet Thinker, RainbowsGirl

Thank You dmiller,

For especially the beautiful rainbow birthday banner and all the great wishes! I wish you all could have been here. Josh and I had a grreat time! He is a party dude! He loves cake, music and people; especially ladies. He sure amazes me with his charisma. He has a girl in every store in town bringing him homemade treats..and most of them are married. Their husbands don't even mind...for a guy who mostly signs. he does right well in his communications; at time far better than me! Thank You again! It will be nice getting to know you and everyone here as well!

Love You dmiller, RainbowsGirl

]Well... I am realistically sure that I am predomanently an idealist. I love to see the goodness, the talent and the abilities in people. I love to act in love...even when it doesn't seem realistic. I love the movie "Man of La Mancha". I love to dream the impossible dreams I can realistically relate far better with optimistic people than with pesimistic people. I prefer to wear my rose-colored glasses. It's not that I am to dumb to see, the shall we call it "darkness of this world" and to avoid it or preferably to eliminate it as much as possible...but the darkness is ugly and the light is so beautiful....so attractive. They are both real. The light illuminates me and the darkness obsures things. When the darkness falls I realistically act out my idealism; I try to help in ways I can. I am a flower child of the 60's..Life is experimental in some ways to me. (Hey and I didn't do drugs, nor am I having hallusinations, and I missed the free love part... essentially...LOL) Although, I have "heavy" (like the hippies used to say..LOL) responsibilities. I deal with them both realistically and imaginitively....realism reigns me in, as well it should, and is the staple of all my decisions. Imagination is as they say the mother of all invention...and what Mother doesn't need it!

In life I think you have to be both..both are needed and useful..they often work well together. It is not so easy to face the harshest realities in this life. I like to have as many tools and resourses at my disposal as I can find....so after their cleared up or managed in some way; I can idealistically dream my dreams! I guess that's why I have been know to lack clarity...so if you don't understand this or have suggestions pm me.

Love to All, RainbowsGirl

I have debated whether or not to reply to this thread.

While I have posted openly about my son's condition, and the general response to it, there are some things I've not said. Because they fit with the main thrust of this thread, I've decided to comment.

The most hurtful and profoundly ignorant statement made to me, uttered by the BC/LC in the presence of my FC, their respective families and myself was simply this: "Your initial mistake, like Eve, was to question during your pregnancy that something could go wrong. Your second mistake was placing too much trust in the medical establishment. While it is good that you've acted on your believing and started to seek therapists to help, the fact is you are too knowledgeable about Autism and Biology to effectively believe in this circumstance. It is your pride that prevents his healing."

To understand the context, then, I will explain that my son's diagnosis came at the end of my marriage, for practical purposes--a relationship that has only improved under the tincture of time, frankly, since separation.

I, being familiar with twi lingo asked, "Why are you speaking to me alone about this? I assume you have no problem with then-hubby's believing. Isn't he the head of the family? Doesn't his believing cover?"

The reply was: "You've done something, somewhere...somehow you've undermined him and made his spiritual effect powerless."

These were things spoken to me, in my home.

However, at meetings, especially Limb Functions I was bombarded with phrases like by the. very. same. people.:

"Won't it be great when you wake up and your little boy is healed? We're all believing with you!"

"Deliverance takes time, but I just know that if we all pray for healing now, by the time he's 5 he'll be in regular kindergarten!"

"Don't really think about what his doctor's say; we have THE WORD and we can overcome them!"

By the time he was 2 and I'd forgotten what regular sleep was, I think if one more syrupy-smiled, doe-eyed do-gooder had come up to me and said, "Don't worry, QT! I've prayed about this and God showed me that your son will be healed!" ... I would have punched his/her/its teeth out.

Make no mistake, at first especially, driven by maternal instinct I'm sure, I wanted my son to be instantly "delivered from this affliction."

It has taken me years of study and observation to come to the conclusion that while his different wiring and neurological functions make it difficult for the general society to understand him, that he is a complete, functioning, whole little person. He is not afflicted. He is not possessed (I never believed that crap). He is himself. No more or less anything other than. himself.

Because he is not verbal in the sense that most of us understand, and because he is not interested in the same things most kids his age are, he certainly is different. The deficits and behaviors that he exhibits which place him toward the lower end of the Autism Spectrum mean nothing more than data points that taken together form a diagnosis.

However, to be lambasted for my specific knowledge was cruel and wrong. To lessen my son's humanity, to make of him a non-person (because, yes, my LC called him "A little beast, he's an animal, all instincts and no brains, no reasoning") was also wrong. TWI, like many groups wanted uniformity and conformity.

Many of the well-meaning, sincere people, with gentle and kind hearts motivated only by love were very happy to pray and "believe with me." None of them babysat for me once...not ever...unless I paid a teenager to do it. Of course, in paying them, I was "believing" to get a shower so I could wash my hair without worrying whether or not my son had managed to dismantle the door locks again. (<sarcasm>He was an animal and apparently it must have been animal cunning that allowed him to work out how to do THAT, it certainly couldn't have been reasoning capability! </sarcasm>)

I was asked, at first, to give progress reports...so that leadership could update the household on our believing progress. That stopped fairly quickly. I suppose my son wasn't a bright enough star to accomplish that, though.

Please understand, many many people really wanted to see us "delivered" from what they saw as a terrible tragedy. The did care. I'm not belittling that.

But...I saw those gleeful glances. Oh, yes. Oh, yes I did. Those expressions were very communicative. They said, "Here's our chance to activate the power of God and make this kid whole...then the WORLD will know! They'll know!"

I also saw the relieved, nervous glances that said, "I'm so relieved that's not my kid. I could never live like that."

Finally, I saw the less kind, more accusatory glances, and heard the words from top to bottom..."Poor kid, what did SHE do to make him turn out that way."

Speaking as the parent of a child with what people call a disability, and pretty severe one, I can say that what bothered me most was that my son became a symbol. His innate humanity, his unique individualism was discarded and he became nothing more than <gag> an opportunity for greater believing and potential example of ultimate deliverance</gag>.

Would I, a writer and science-geek, love to have long conversations in a language I can understand with my child? Yes. Would I like to know what's bothering him? Of course. Would I like to experience, even just one single time, the feeling of hearing him call me, "mom"? More than any of you who have not faced this situation will ever realize.

When I left twi, and left behind the warped sense of reality it came with, I was almost instantly able to connect with my son in a profound way. He does not speak meaningfully apart from a few words, but his expression shows every human emotion we can all experience. I am aware of his love and his desire to be a part of my life. I can easily see when he wants to be around his sister and when he wishes she would just drop dead. I have seen his exultant joy when he discovers something new, like today when he realized how to dismantle the refrigerator lock so he could eat ALL the pudding in the house while I was, again, in the shower.

When I left twi behind, I left behind the notion that my child is defective, broken, damaged goods. I've discovered that both of my children, without enforced way-robotics, experience the world in a unique way and, frankly, I learn more from them in what people might consider a "broken" state, than I would otherwise.

My family was delivered, all of us, from people who marginalized our existence and insisted that we were in need of changing.

Don't feel sorry for us. We're doing ok, and we'll keep on doing better...because we have each other.

My daughter chooses this song for our family. I think it fits.

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Yours parentingly,

~QT

If you read this far...I'm amazed. I am still of mixed emotions about sharing this. I may decide to remove it later.

*edited to add The The tune

Dear Quiet Thinker,

Thank You so very much for stating it so perfecting and eloquently how many of us have similarily felt concerning our similar experiences in TWI with our children or loved ones. I too thought reluctantly of responding to this topic.....as my poor arthritic fingers hurt and I am not eloquent; and just very glad that you did.... Specifically, I don't want sympathy either; so I'd rather not bring it up unless there is something I can learn!

My son Joshua (30yrs) has a rare chromosome deletion of the 6th chromosome...p23 to p24.3. He has damage to his fine and gross motor and speech processing with autistic traits and tendencies. Doctors said he would never walk or talk...be a vegetable...He walks and talks somewhat...etc. I have a question concerning healing. Through out his life we have recieved healing in areas of his life, but not total restoration. All throughout the gospels it was always a requirement that someone believed. It is difficult to believe at times for me circumstancially in Josh's case ... with all the unknowns of his condition and the given that I do love him as he is and learn from him as well! I may never get to the point of believing beyond a shadow of a doubt...but isn't that the goal???

Love to All, RainbowsGirl

Thank You Sunesis,

That is sound and wise advise and a very loofty goal for me. It appears to me that I have a lot of catching up to do to even come close to what you and so many other diligent Gr's know. I'll give it my best!

Thanks for You example, RainbowsGirl :)

Rainbow, welcome to the forum.

I'm sorry to hear the loss you have been through with TWI, I truly admire the stand you took with your son, many people would not have.

There are many of us here who still love God, but have "moved on" from TWI or its materials. The further away I've been and the more study of the Word and great Christian writers, I realize TWI did not teach us the basics of Christian theology and thought. There is much to learn.

God will put thoughts, questions and things on your heart to learn about, follow where they lead.

I think God is preparing you to move ahead, as you're starting to be a bit "bored" by TWI - maybe time for more than milk?

Dear Copenhagen,

I have been as "Dumb as a Doorknot" for the last 10 years about TWI and not nearly as Brillant or talented as these ones that you speak of; and hey God directed me......God will make a way for them as soon as they are able. That at the very least is my hope and prayer for them and all of us. I really enjoyed what you shared and how it changed your mind because of your great heart! I Look at Your beautiful Heart now and I think ...God is the searcher of all hearts and how much more infinitely exquisite our hearts are to him we knows all and is all power and authority. He's able!

Thank You RainbowsGirl

Last summer I went to a good friends house to help him fix a boat.

This is not exactually a nice looking boat. To me its old, smells funny has torn seats and

needs a paint job. To my friend this thing was the best ever built.

As I started to tackle the engine I knew we had a few problams but nothing I

can not fix.

As I tackled the engine all I heard was where it has been and what it had done.

It had logged a lot of hours over the years and seen better years.

After two weekends she was ready. I asked if the radio worked and if he had a cell

phone because I had no desire to break down on the ocean.

Long story short I fell in love with this thing of beauty, she hit every wave smooth, handled

like a dream and you had no fear of the water you knew she would take care of you. I felt

craddled in her seat like in my mothers arms when I was little.

A few months later I was hearing a teaching about each one of us has a gift and a longsuit.

Do not hide it, let it shine. Go out and help others with the word. You have so much to give.

The message was not holding back or letting any thing hold you back.

Then I started reflecting on all the people in our area and their longsuits.

Countless people who used to be fellowship cords, wow vets, way corp.

The long suits were termendous. Knowledge of the word in the old and new test.

Ministries of healing, love, witnessing and undersheaparding. Most I have seen on

a first hand basis.

All these people were put in a box by twi.

Busted back, dropped from status because of debt or silly rules that change on a whim.

Spirits broken if you can understand.

These are still good people who if the twi took the chains off spirtualy and emotionaly could have

5 new fellowships in 6 months.

I see my friends boat as these people. A little love and a chance and look out.

They just need a little love and fixing just like the boat. I thoght just buy new one

why waste money on this pos.My friend saw the beuaty and knew the small investment

would pay huge rewards.

All these folks are sold out to the twi and would love to shine again.

Sadly though the eat sh_t and still think what could of been or what might of been.

copenhagen

Thanks for your heart, too, Rainbowsgirl, and welcome!

The 2nd reply for welcoming me should have gone for you, but I messed up! hey and before i mess up anymore I am out of here !

Bye Bless You!