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    Getting answers about TWI and Healing and If I can Helping!

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  1. Congratulations to You both!!! Enjoy the Journey;leading and walking with and following Your child through all the many stages of growth!!!Every moment is precious in its own way!!! It's unfortunate that no one has of yet found away to bottle the unique smell of a beautiful newborn baby; yet it is still a smell that your heart always will keep and remember!!!
  2. Why would a Good God send people to an everlasting hell? In conclusion now that many angles from all participants have been represented, I would like to clarify some points and issues and make a few closing remarks. Sounding like a defense attorney without the proper credentials; I well suppose? Not really, but I will be using it as an analogy. A Christian is to always be ready to defend the gospel with scriptural evidence. Scripture is; from a bible based Christian standpoint, GOD’s testimony and evidence of Himself. GOD states that he is His Word and that Jesus Christ is the Word in the Flesh. Scripture is God’s testimony and His evidence. Without scripture we would only have speculative, segmented and subjective accounts of GOD’s attributes, Will and Ways. It would be difficult to see or understand why a Good GOD would send people to an everlasting hell. The why, needs to be satisfied by evidence from GOD; and as a Christian I am to represent that testimony and evidence to the best of my ability. Not all believe!!! That is a separate issue. 1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Phl 1:7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. Phl 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel. We have a defense attorney and I might just add the perfect defense attorney in Jesus Christ …the word in the flesh…our Savior; which most men can only hope that their earthly defense attorney will be to them, in their time of need. 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Romans chapter 8 discusses this : Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God. A Good defense attorney makes their case in accordance with the laws and statues of their jurisdiction. Man has his rules, laws and jurisdiction and likewise so does GOD have His Rules laws and jurisdiction. Whenever the attorneys case is weak he uses age old strategies, techniques and tactics to dissuade, confuse or discredit his opponent’s evidence; such as misrepresentation, mischaracterization, gas lighting, misleading partial quotes and exurbs in an attempt to dismantle the credibility of the evidences presented by his opponent. GOD states that his Word and Ways are perfect and flawless; that makes His case perfect. He needs no extraneous strategies techniques or tactics to win. He has already won. He has always known the outcome. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He wishes all to believe Him; even unto salvation; but He allows man to choose for His reasons. Some we understand and some we do not! Everything that pertains to life and godliness is in the bible for anyone who wants it - as He GOD is and wants it to be. If GOD doesn’t exist for anyone or only exists by your own definition so be it; none of what I say will matter in that case. It is also well known that those who reject scripture as evidence reject it as believable testimony; So they should not be upset if I am wrong. The Issue of this thread is: Why would a Good God send people to an everlasting hell? The Why of this is the issue that I presented. It is not how hell is defined and it is not whether or not those sent to hell are destroyed in eternal death, or are absent from the presence of GOD for eternity. They pertain and anyone can bring them in as they wish to. This is a doctrinal thread, so I am representing GOD’s scriptural testimony and evidence concerning WHY?. It is anyone’s choice whether they believe it or not. It becomes a question of GOD’s integrity with man. I will use this example as it was eluded to, that I have “way think” Example: In PFAL we were taught that Man’s basic spiritual problem is, was and will always be the integrity of HIS, GOD’s Word. I am a student of the bible and a Christian, so I check the relevance of things that I study. TWI plagiarized a lot, and doctrinally twisted it to suit their agendas; but they did not invalidate the scriptures themselves…often only their application and intent. So looking at integrity and its definition: in•teg•ri•ty [ in téggrətee ] noun Definition: 1. possession of firm principles: the quality of possessing and steadfastly adhering to high moral principles or professional standards 2. completeness: the state of being complete or undivided ( formal ) the territorial integrity of the nation 3. wholeness: the state of being sound or undamaged ( formal ) public confidence in the integrity of the voting process I see this statement as true. The spiritual battle between man and GOD is to whether man believes the scriptures are true or not, whether they are God breathed or not, and whether or not there is a right dividing of them. When I stated that GOD is a black and white thinker I was referring to his absoluteness and his objectivity, being relevant to His unchanging standards as they are set in His Word. He stated of Himself that he does not change from being “I am that I am” I was in no way indicating that he is not loving , gracious, merciful, forgiving, patient and kind and all the far to many to count wonderful attributes of God; but they are set in accordance with His set standards and not man’s often ever changing standards. What GOD testifies of Himself does not change. What does change is the interpretation by the interpreter of what GOD says. I study to endeavor not to privately interpret GOD’s Word and Will. I want to know the whole picture of GOD; with all of. His Why’s, His Wherefores and all of His perfect attributes. I LOVE Him just the way that he is Perfect Love and Perfect Light.
  3. It is my belief and understanding that it is GOD's Word; Not all believe GOD; but I am convinced and believe HIS testimony concerning Himself and HIS Word!!! 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
  4. GOD is absolutely black and white, truly and thoroughly unwaveringly objective about what he says; Where on the other hand most men are not...that is the reason for the gulf between man and GOD!!! Man likes to be his own god and/or hew out his own gods, and live by his own rationales, ideologies, religions, and justifications. Jesus Christ is GOD's solution. Man's solution is to innovate their own individualized solutions!!! How You use your free will choices are entirely up to you; that won't change one iota or jot and tittle of GOD's Word, HIS Ways or HIS Acts!!! Have a Nice Man's Day!!!
  5. Why Would A Good God Send People To An Everlasting Hell? 1. What is hell? Not a place of high thermal output (though some conservative scholars disagree) but being “away from the Lord’s presence” : 2Th 1:6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power: 2Th 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ (2 Th 1:9) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;-cut off from intimate union with God (Rev 21:3; & Rev 22:4 : Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: Rev22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads. Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings [are] faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. Hell’s darkness and flames (which, if literal, would cancel each other out) are figurative, portraying anguish and hopelessness without God. Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt 25:41)-: Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Spirit beings, which are unaffected by physical fire. Let’s address some hell-related questions that unbelievers and believers find troubling. 2. “Isn’t God unjust to punish persons forever for sins committed during a limited earthly existence?” Those in hell have committed the ultimate, infinite sin-not simply a string of finite sins-in rejecting a relationship with the self-giving God. Also, hell is the logical outcome of a mindset to live apart from God-not simply committing individual sins. The punishment fit’s the crime. You want no God, you get no God. There are two kinds of people: Those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, “Thy will be done” (C.S Lewis). 3. “But wouldn’t persons in hell really want to be with God if they knew what hell is like?” No. Those who have resisted God on earth continue in their hard-heartedness thereafter (just as those living for God on earth continue to enjoy him). God’s holy presence would truly be “hell” for those wanting their own way. We have no hint from Scripture of repentance in hell Rebellion, hate, and selfishness continue. The rich man in Hell (Luke 16:19-28) is remorseful, not repentant-not wanting to change, but to find relief! Remorseful: A strong feeling of guilt and regret. Repentant: 1. To be Sorry - To recognize the wrong in something that you have done and be sorry about it. 2. To Change – To feel regret about a sin or past action and change your ways or habits Rebellious: 1. Opposing or defying authority – Opposing or defying authority, accepted moral codes or social conventions. 2. Fighting to overthrow government or authority – fighting to overthrow government or other authority…rebellion against GOD is idolatry Idolatry: 1. Idol worship – The worship of an idol or false gods. 2. Extreme admiration – Excessive admiration or love shown for someone or something Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom. Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence. Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Thus we testify for GOD and pray genuinely out of Godly love for all!!! (RG) 4. “But how can people be sent to hell without knowing it’s full implications?” Even if one isn’t fully aware of hell’s anguish, this doesn’t mean our choice is too much to bear. God is ready to equip anyone for salvation (John 16:8): All will be made aware, All Will have freely chosen beforehand!!! Jhn 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. Jhn 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. Jhn 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. Jhn 16:4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you. Jhn 16:5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? Jhn 16:6 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Jhn 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; Jhn 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Jhn 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. All will be made aware, All Will have freely chosen beforehand!!! Though the full consequences of our embracing or rejecting God aren’t fully apparent to us now, grace to choose responsibly is available to all. What prevents the salvation of everyone? Individuals’ choosing freely to reject God’s grace. We can always resist the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51 - 60). Act 7:51 Ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye. Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your father’s persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Act 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept [it]. Act 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with [their] teeth. Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, Act 7:58 And cast [him] out of the city, and stoned [him]: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. God doesn’t send people to hell; they freely reject him, condemning themselves by not acknowledging their guilt. (Unto true repentance!!!) 5. “Why didn’t God make the world in such a way that all people would love him?” While a world in which everyone loves God is theoretically possible, it is not feasible. Whatever possible world with free creatures God could create, it may be that none is sin-free, and God’s love isn’t forced. Hell-the absence of God’s presence-exists because, like Milton’s Satan, people would rather “reign in hell than serve in heaven.” God isn’t unloving but rather has gone to great lengths to show grace to everyone. Should God not create at all because many freely resist Him in the world God created and thus deprive many others of the greatest good possible? 6. “Why did God create people He knew would reject and be separated from Him forever?” Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 2Cr 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. Hbr 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Despite God’s desire that all be saved (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9), many still resist. 7. What if some become more resistant no matter how loving God is? Isaiah 5:4; & Matt 23:37? Isa 5:4 What could have been done more to my vineyard that I have not done in it? Wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers. Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren. Mat 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ. Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Mat 23:17 [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? Mat 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. Mat 23:19 [Ye] fools and blind: for whether [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Mat 23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. Mat 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Mat 23:24 [Ye] blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Mat 23:26 [Thou] blind Pharisee, cleanse first that [which is] within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness. Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous, Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Mat 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city: Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous bloodshed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord. 8. Should God not create those who would respond to His love simply because others would refuse it? Luk 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. God’s will supersedes mankind’s will both selectively and collectively; whether we regard it believe it, or fully understand it!!! Luk 11:3 Give us day by day our daily bread. Luk 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. 9. What if God created a world in which a maximal balance of least condemned and most redeemed was realized? This is not unloving. He is all knowing ever present and omnipotent. What we do and decide to do with our Free will is known from the beginning to the end by the Alpha and Omega. He sees from the outside of time and space contingencies and restrains, the boundaries given to man, because our knowledge and wisdom is limited and finite (RG.) Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. 1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief. 1Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 1Ti 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 10. “Why wouldn’t God, from the start, make us like heavens saints-loving God while unable to sin?” “Even Angels and heavens host have free will! The Devil and a third of the angels fell for trying to usurp the throne of GOD. Every idol that mankind puts before GOD is at enmity with the only true Holy Creator and only REAL GOD!” (RG.) Exd 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, Exd 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Exd 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exd 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Exd 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; Robust freedom on earth-to embrace freely God’s grace or resist it-is a requirement for arriving at one’s final destiny. Our earthly direction is “sealed” in the afterlife; our heart’s desire is finally granted-God or no God. So God couldn’t have created a heaven-like state in which the redeemed no longer sin without damaging this vitally important freedom. (Or perhaps, rather than “sealing” us from sin in the afterlife, God simply foreknows that no saint will actually freely sin, guaranteeing a sin-free condition in the final state.) Finally, because God has so fully given of Himself to make salvation freely available through His Son, we can confidently entrust any lingering questions about hell to His excellent character. By: Paul Copan ( is in Italicized blue print excerpts) Those in hell have committed the ultimate, infinite sin-not simply a string of finite sins-in rejecting a relationship with the self-giving God. Also, hell is the logical outcome of a mindset to live apart from God-not simply committing individual sins. The punishment fit’s the crime. You want no God, you get no God. There are two kinds of people: Those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, “Thy will be done” (C.S Lewis). This bears repeating Yes a Good GOD will absolutely do as He says He will do! He will do this for perfectly just reasons, that are higher than a total accummulation of all mankind's, in total, reasonings, religions and ideologies...simply because HE is the Creator, The Alpha and the Omega, the only wise GOD and All knowing and All powerful!!! He has and continues to demonstrate His LOVE and will unto the end Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
  6. Oak, This is not personal so please don't take it that way. I thought I read you are a neopagan? Is that right? The bible is very well documented more than any other ancient book. They would have been very careful in copying it down. We have more copies than any other old book. We are even finding more. What is it you trust so about the oral tradition in Paganism that leaves some much room for doubt in the written documents we have for the bible?
  7. Oak,I was not addressing Abigail, and I stand by my statements to Doojable for the reason I stated!
  8. It all depends on how much evidence you need....it is not like Jesus came in the flesh to declare GOD or anything. :)
  9. Oak, Biblically objectivity has withstood the test of time, when it it not intermingled with subjective doctrines of men it has been historically documented by biblical researchers (not TWI, as their research was a farce). This is not to say that there are no errors in translations by the handling of men, but biblical scholar's are more often than not able to point out these added or substracted by men errors. These errors have usually been incorporated into translation to line up with the varying subjective doctrines of men! An example I will cite is the book of Daniel (old testament) was written long before the book of Revelation and it actuatly lines up with scriptural references of then yet future events that are refered to in Revelation and beyond the Bible history. Both Daniel and Revelation make reference to Alexander The Great: [edit] Four Persian Kings In Daniel 11:2-4, the angel Gabriel informs the prophet that there will be four Persian kings before the coming of Alexander the Great. And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven. Since the author of Daniel wrote during the reign of Cyrus (Daniel 10:1), this would then make him the first Persian king of Daniel 11:2. Cyrus defeated Babylon in 536 BC. Alexander took the kingdom from the last Persian king in 333 BC. This gives us 203 years for the Persian reign. Split among four kings, we get an average of about 51 years each, which is somewhat excessive. There were nine Persian kings from Cyrus to Alexander. They are: Cyrus (549 - 529 BC) Cambyses (529 - 522 BC) Darius I (521 - 485 BC) Xerxes (485 - 465 BC) Artaxerxes I (465 - 425 BC) Darius II (425 - 405 BC) Artaxerxes II (404 - 358 BC) Artaxerxes III (358 - 338 BC) Darius III (338 - 330 BC) The author of Daniel may have been misled by the fact that the Old Testament only mentions four of the nine Persian kings - Cyrus (Ezra 1:1), Darius I (Ezra 4:5), Xerxes I (Ahasuerus - Ezra 4:6) and Artaxerxes I (Ezra 4:7).[9] However, Xerxes I, the fourth king from the time of history in the book of Daniel, did in fact invade Greece and instigated the Greco-Persian wars, in which he was ultimately defeated.[24] Since it is normal in prophetic sections of the Hebrew Bible to have no mention of large chronological gaps between historical events, the predictions regarding the fourth king of Persia warring in Greece and that of Alexander the Great are not necessarily to be understood as one immediately following the other.[original research?] The successive sentences indicate a successive thematic relationship, i.e. the struggle between Persia and Greece, rather than a chronological one Old Testament Bible prophesies concerning Jesus Christ shows the objectivity and inerrant accuracy of GOD's Word. Jesus Christ fulfilled all the old testiment prophesie concerning himself True Christianity is a logical faith...You either believe it or You don't we can't just dismiss the bible out of hand....... IT IS a phenomenon in and of itself The Bible was written: over a 1500 year span (from 1400 B.C to A.D. 100) over 40 generations over 40 authors from many walks of life (i.e. - kings, peasants, philosophers, fishermen, poets, statesmen, scholars) in different places (i.e. - wilderness, dungeon, palaces) at different times (i.e. - war, peace) in different moods (i.e. - heights of joy, depths of despair) on three continents (Asia, Africa, and Europe) in three languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek)
  10. Oak, They, Pluralistic viewpoints are not objectively True; which is without bias and without being influenced by personal feelings and opinions. Subjectively is based on opinions and feelings rather than facts or evidence Subjective is not at all indicative of truth. Pluralistic viewpoints have no real measure of accuracy. Interesting usage of :1Cr 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. "Now I know in part" what I need to know to receive eternal life in GOD's presence based on GOD and the Bible. The Thread is: Why Would A Good God Send People To an Everlasting Hell?
  11. Thank You Linda, And this once and again demonstrates: Just what is our excuse anyway for not walking in Love and Light???
  12. Thank You RumRunner, and Geisha This Father, Mother and Son know and truly understand the depth and riches of GOD’s perfect Love. It strengthens them to endure every obstacle or cruelty laid in their paths. They Live Love. When You Live Love you can understand GOD’s Love and constantly be infused and strengthened by it. For GOD is perfect Love. Perfect love casts out fear...fear of anything!!! 1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. GOD’s Love taught that man not to reject his own son to fight for him and to learn from his sons special abilities, love, energy and strength. It was GOD’s Love that casts out fear. It is GOD’s LOVE that has opened their eyes to see with their hearts as well as their minds and to walk in that Love. They see a whole picture, and a whole family knit together in LOVE. GOD wants us to see his heart His love, His grace, His mercy, His joy, His judgments, His justice and all his other attributes as he shows us in His Word. It declares Him as a whole; so that we see the whole picture and are a whole family knit together in LOVE GOD is LOVE and He created us in that LOVE and by that Love. That love is shed abroad in our hearts. That is the reason we know how to love, and can love or even understand love. GOD is light and there is no darkness in HIM...no darkness at all!!! When we take things, people or GOD apart from the whole of them we become knit pickers and judges of their parts and see only a part of a part; and separated in part. Seeing only what we want to see and how we choose to see it!!! There is no truth in that examination and that dissection without knowing the whole as the sum of it's parts; wrong is concluded and propounded!!! A fragmented view misrepresents the whole!!! Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. The wholeness of Love heals and sustains us against any odds!!! 1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins. 1Jo 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 1Jo 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world. 1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us. 1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 1Jo 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
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