Listener

To my way of thinking, if God was truly giving revelation about all this stuff to me, why should I care how people react to it. If God said it, it's going to happen, or be true, no matter what. I should just relax and speak, knowing God would cause His Word to come to pass. My rantings aren't going to make a hill of beans difference.

Of course, the reality was that they weren't speaking for anyone but themselves...God and His love seemed like the furthest things from their minds.

Exie, I love how you cut to the chase! Yes, insane and reprobate.

Looking back on those years when I was in, and thinking about this topic, I have come to the realization that...

over time, leaders began to believe that their normal human thoughts were, in reality, revelation. Delusional, i think. (sp?)

I recall vp becoming more and more angry when any resistance to his statements was encountered.

As time went by, his patience shortened, reproof became very hurtful, and access to him, without appointment, became rarer and rarer.

LCM learned this extra well, since his mental disposition lent itself to mindless imitation. In his attempt to further

the "goals of the ministry", he just intensified the emphasis on doing what he saw vp do when times got tough...beat up on the

lowest level believers.

I didn't know lcm as well as I knew vp, but they both seemed to believe that their thoughts were always revelation.

You know, the old "first thought is from God" crap. I remember being taught that, and was always analyzing which thought actually came first!

What a waste of energy and time that was. What a waste of energy and time THEY were!

Hey, Cap't...are you practising asking questions?...or what? :unsure:

May I suggest a statement. Might get a little more mileage.

10-4 on that beer!!

Thanks for the T-shirt invite...but, wifey is frowning.. :huh: ...maybe a game of Hearts?!?!

Wouldn't you know the decision would be based on financial concerns instead of human concerns?

How pathetic.

Eyes - I just knew it! Your writing skills ARE real! Best wishes on your books. May God bless your efforts.

:eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:

I absolutely agree with Ted. That "live by the sword, die by the sword" rebuttal shows the ignorance of the writer.

Ted is not proposing that WE live by the gun, he's pointing out that the BAD GUYS are living by the gun!! And therefore, if we are armed,

THEY will die by the gun!!...as it should be.

Thanks, D. i appreciated seeing that list.

I knew a bunch of those people. Nice to see they're still pickin'.

Well, isn't it proper etiquette, after all, to cover one's tail while in public?

Yeah, Ham, I agree. Re-evaluation would be pointless if the same procedures are used as when the initial valuation was done.

I did some reading of past threads and see that "debating" him is completely pointless.

I see no profit in engaging him, any more that I would in engaging a brick wall, in conversation.

T'was good for a laugh, though.

Who would expect to have a fulfilling, exciting life living with a servant?!?! Not me, that's for sure. My wife is independent, outspoken and has different opinions on many subjects. And, yes, that leads to some pretty heated discussions, BUT, she is her own person. And she expects me to be my own person. We respect each others' individuality, and in fact, that's in large part what keeps the "spark" alive. TWI's practices and teachings repressed that spark of life...the individual's uniqueness!!

That individual uniqueness is what makes us so very precious to God. What I can't do for Him, someone else can. The person I can't help, someone else can. That's the Body. That's the Church. Each of us has traits and abilities that can interact with others to make God's love living and real. But, with all that uniqueness, the one common bond that unites us is that love, God's love. Why wouldn't I want that same kind of relationship in a marriage? Why wouldn't I yearn for that to be the way my brothers and sisters in Christ live?

vp never got that part right. He never saw the real beauty of accepting people for who they were in Christ and helping them grow. And I think that was because he never accepted Jesus Christ as the Head of the Body of Christ. His version of the love of God was to enforce conformity and obedience. He tried to control us into walking for God...like little robots. He could never let go of the reins and allow Christ to direct his people. He really blew his ministry because of this. It shouldn't surprise anyone that he would demand the same practices of married couples, should it?

Ahha. I get it. I couldn't believe anyone would make such a goofy statement.

vp writing the "New Word of God" replacing the bible?....what incredible foolishness!

I thought I'd heard some out-there statements at TWI, but this one beats them all!!

:biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Whoops, my bad. But what do you expect from a relative newbie.

Well, maybe that's the "something new" I learned today.

Mike, are you really saying the PF*L books are equal to, or replace, the bible? Sure sounds that way.

That's great, Eyes, thanks about the cut and paste thing...and......Thanks for "the rest of the story"......finally!

Oh, hey.....that reminds me....I meant to mention this one, little, ity, bity, thing you said.......

Michael and I had a rough time getting back to Emporia. At one point we ended up on a deserted highway and had no idea where we were (but that's another story all in itself, and right now I cant for the life of me remember how we got there on that highway in the middle of no where.) We spent our $10 on what I don't remember but on the last leg of the trip home, and we were cutting it way too close, we got picked up by a local Emporian. He asked us how much time we had and we told him, so he sped up. He asked if we still had our money, we had to tell him that we did not, he gave us $10 and dropped us off at the gate with about 25 minutes to spare. He wished us Gods speed and drove away. (You think that was cool, just wait for the deserted highway adventure...that was really cool!)

Note the highlighted words......YOUR words!! What are you trying to do here!!! It's been TWO SLEEPLESS DAYS now, reading your story....and before you even finish it......

YOU SET US UP FOR ANOTHER ONE??? Well......there go.. ...(snort) :unsure: ...uuhhhh...what?...oh, yeah....there goes more..slee..p...le....ss...nigh... ...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Many thanks for an exceptional accounting of those events.

AAAHHHHHHHHHHH! I can sleep tonite.

I'm gonna cut and paste this story so I can read it in one sitting...if you don't mind, Eyes. I REALLY enjoyed it...very revealing, indeed.

What a great job of story-telling. And what a great expose' of TWI Brain! I think you handled that meeting on the commons very well...very mature.

I think I would have been much less polite, and might have caused another hospital visit to occur!!

Aarrrggghhhhh!! I thank God, more and more, that I got out whan I did.

YES!!!! Great post!!

:eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:

Thanks, Belle.

"foot kickers" in my post was supposed to be a$$ kissers. I don't know if there is a filter here on the board or if I made ONE hell of a Freudian typo. Either way it is very ironic and appropriate, in a strange way.

For the sake of extreme accuracy, and biblical interpolation......and to help Fullcircle.....

The term "a$$ kissers", in the original manuscripts, is most often used regarding those individuals who, in the effort to enhance their spiritual standing in the community, would swear an oath to the leader by falling to one knee and placing a gentle kiss upon the posterior of said leader. This action, by the individual, was thought to greatly endear the leader to view the person as one who possesed great spiritual depth and discernment, and fierce loyalty.

In the greek texts, this was often loosely interpreted as "foot licking". But this form of the term is actually based upon the more pedestrian usage which required one to fall on his face and lick clean the foot of his leader, thus displaying to all present that the individual was most interested in performing any task asked of him regardless of the moral implications of said act, and therefore further displaying his submittance to the leader in all things spiritual.

Furthermore, the term was later modified into the more current usage, "foot kicker", whereby, while falling on his face and licking clean the leader's foot, one would also kick outwards with his right foot indicating his animal-like obedience to the leader, and thus not requiring mental involvement or intelligence in the performing of requested duties by the individual. This practice was popularized by certain of the leadership in cults and gangs of the late 1900s.

(excerpt taken from the Book of Werwillian Life, pg. 666, chapter 8, "If Life Were Mine To Give") :wacko:

Ooohhh.........I think I have too much free time!!! :(

:biglaugh: (all in fun, y'all, not to mock.)

Oh, my God!! Can we take up a donation to hire a moving company...so you can continue????

I don't know if I can make it thru the night waiting for the conclusion!!

Dear God, help us!!

The waiting!

The waiting!!

The intolerable waiting!!!

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Up Next.....the Adventures of HOPALONG CASSIDY. Stay tuned!!!!

I bet Eyes is typing furiously to continue the story and give us our "fix".

Dang, this is addicting!!

This is like those cliff-hanger TV series I used to watch when I was a kid!! :huh: uuhhmm....a very, very little kid, that is.

The days wore on, each day progressively worse. Each day more and more people limping. The soggy boots, the wet socks, the red feet with white edges and toes, the tears of pain and frustration. And still we wouldn't quit.

Oh!! The suspense!! The limping!! And the SOGGY BOOTS!!! THE TEARS!!! :o

Whatever will become of the dauntless mountain climbers?!?!?!?!? (cue oohs and ahhs)

(in a deep masculine voice)...Tune in next hour for the next exciting episode of........LEAD!! 1986!!! (in booming voice)

(cue theme song.....cut to commercial!)

:biglaugh: couldn't resist, sorry.

Eyes, you should write books! You're good at this storytelling!! BRAVO!!

:eusa_clap:

Yes, the basic unit of worship is the family, but right now my family and I are involved with Rev. Geer and his ministry and I enjoy the way he has things set up; no 'root' locale, just many small groups of people that are completely independant. The abundant sharing stays in each area rather than being sent to 'headquarters', and is used to address needs in each area as they arise (i.e. one family has an unexpected medical expense, another family has a fire in their home, etc. etc.). It seems to me that was the way TWI first started out but later turned into a big corporation.

I've always thought the basic unit for worshipping God is the individual, and the basic unit of a society, or church, is the family.