George Aar

I think they were LOTS of folks who knew, but they were carefully chosen, probably because they were thought to be capable of keeping a lid on it. I'd heard some vague references to stuff going on from some 1st-year Corps folk back in 1980. They didn't know a lot fo specifics, but they had been indoctrinated with the approved rationalizations ("If someone really NEEDED sex, what would be the LOVING thing to do?" and other such tripe).

It sounded peculiar to me at the time, but hey, I was just a lowly Twigite. These guys were in THE CORPS, right next to the MOG, they MUST know better, right?

What a farking waste of life it all was, REALLY...

It was a close race for me. The much vaunted "Law of Buhleeving" and "The Bible is the Revealed Word and Will of God", both exited from my radar at about the same time.

Don't miss either one a bit...

I have started to believe in recent years that the planet earth, together with various life forms, will survive man. I think humans and most other land-dwelling creatures will die off, much as the dinosaurs did, while other species (perhaps insects and various marine life) will remain. Who knows?

Yes, in my in-depth textual research, I've discovered in Matthew 5:5 that the word "meek" in the "the meek shall inherit the earth" is more properly translated "cockroaches".

There ya go...

Composer, I think I share a lot of your viewpoint - with the one exception - I don't try to lay blame for the world's ills at the feet of an imaginary being. I really don't think it's helpful to try, and probably is quite the opposite.

I think if we simply view the world as being subject to a whole lot of capricious, undetermined, dispassionate, uncaring, fate it explains a whole bunch more than cleaving to some sort of "prime mover"-overlord model. "Why do the evil prosper while the just suffer" and assorted other overarching questions become quite academic once you adopt that mindset...

Yeah, I guess I'm just trying to determine what the criteria are for what constitutes a "good" soap. Just about any soap I've ever used seemed to work fine. I don't like the ones that are heavily scented or that have slimey lotion additive, but as far as just getting myself clean, I don't think I've ever encountered a soap that didn't work well in that regard.

No big deal really, the concept just sorta struck me funny when I thought about it a bit...

The REALLY distressing thing to me is that BP apparently had/has NO backup plan if something goes wrong. Hundreds (thousands?) of highly/overly paid executives to oversee the workings of the corporation and not one of 'em thought enough of the safety concerns to implement any sort of program to remedy the situation if the unthinkable happened.

What the hell? Is this like WestWorld, where nothing can possibly go #rong? I notice one of the main cheerleaders for drilling our way out of energy dependence, Caribou Barbie, is somewhat silent these last few days. I guess it'll take a while to come up with a suitable bumper-sticker slogan to cover this eventuality...

I think Dr. Bronner edged out Mr. Wierwille in the "incomprehensible blatherings" department. Though VPW was pretty adept in that as well.

But what is it with religious gimps and sexual predation? It seems like almost a given that most any religious "leader" is going to have some serious skeletons in the closet in that regard. Odd...

And, yeah, I guess the soap is "good". But, exactly what does that mean? I now buy "Ivory" soap by the economy-sized bagfull and don't note any deficiencies in the performance of that. It doesn't have any heavy fragrance or overly harsh alkali "burn" to it though. Is that the difference? Just wondering...

I watched a program on T.V. once with a number of Holocaust survivors who asked very similar questions. It strikes me that religion is in the business of denial and playing the P.R. publicist for The Almighty.

In a much simpler vein, how can one reconcile the supposed all-loving, all-powerful God of the New Testament and just ONE dead baby? I really don't think you can without resorting to all sorts of intellectual dishonesty. So that's what religion does. The God of The Bible isn't living up to what His book says about Him, so we have to improvise. "Well, He HAD to let that baby die or He wouldn't be a just God", "We don't know the mind of GOD, there must be a really important reason that He allowed that to happen", or the old favorite "It's all part of God's PLAN" - yada, yada. Yeah, it's pretty thin soup, but people have a lot riding on the "All-loving, Father God in the Sky" model, so we keep playing.

I think when one takes few steps back and REALLY, dispassionately, looks at relgious tenets, and their OBVIOUS blindspots, the only logical conclusion you can reach is that it really IS a lot of superstitious blather, and we're only wedded to it because our ancestors were. If we'd have been exposed to it AFTER we'd grown and matured in body AND mind, we likely wouldn't pay it any mind at all.

Death is still a Mutha-farker though. And the urge to believe that it'll all be pie-in-the-sky-when-we-die is still very tempting. There's damned scant evidence of that, though. Oh well...

A simple solution:

Just post a notice on your porch "Disfellowshipped Apostate", and they'll give you a VERY wide berth, and never to call again...

While I - no doubt - would be infuriated by such a POS email, just look at what the sender has to endure. They have to spend their LIFE walking around with their head stuffed full of the lukewarm dogchit that passes for Wayfer Theology. Now THERE'S a pathetic life.

Wishing the best for you and yours Shellon...

How's your supply of tinfoil hats holding up?

Oh my Gawd...

Honestly, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. The poor guy must have some serious mental issues.

And he's drawing a salary as a representative in the U.S. Congress? (why isn't there an emoticon for a shaking head?)...

Yes the corporate church. The blind leading the blind into a ditch. One person standing up in front of 500, most without a bible shaking their heads in agreement to every thing the tradition taught teacher is teaching. Home style fellowships were what moved the word over asia minor. Well since you don't believe in home fellowships, you probably believe miracles prophecy and other manifestations of the spirit aren't real too. Just keep saying your hail marys and let the corporate elders pat you on head. Well done, now your approved by man.

My, but your magnanimity overwhelms me.

Personally, I think you're maybe just a teensy bit too proud of a superstition (or your particular brand thereof) with so little to substantiate itself to begin with.

I'm terribly afraid of the monsters under my bed, but did you know there's people who think that if they step on a crack in the sidewalk they'll break their mother's back? Boy, are THEY stupid!

It's the same bait in every cult and MLM that's ever been. The cult of the "secret knowledge". You want to know the secrets behind everything in creation? The secrets to REALLY succeeding beyond your wildest dreams (you know, stuff that "they" don't want you to know), and the secrets to overcoming ANY eventuality that life may throw at you? Well, if you play your cards right I can get you into this really exclusive, special, elite, unbelievably blessed group of people who can show you the way.

Then, once you've been initiated into this chosen group, and have the secret knowledge - the regular, accepted, "normal" knowledge is so obviously inferior, that it can (and SHOULD) be derided and ignored.

There ya go. Indoctrination is now complete. You will not only NOT be dissuaded from paying obeisance to a blatantly nonsensical, POS line of reasoning, you'll be more than eager to try to convince others of it's veracity.

Human nature definitely has it's shortcomings...

I was digging around in the pencil drawer of my desk, and lo and behold, what did I find?

Yes, my own personal piece of "The Class".

Shee-it, I was kinda hoping that the eBay seller had gotten a few bites. I just might be able to part with this historic relic for the right price...

Hey Waysider,

Did you ever have to take the top off of one of those things and hold a pen against the loop of tape so the damned thing would feed properly? 3 hours a night for two weeks got mighty old, I'll tell ya...

The one overarching question I had from first hearing of the "POP" paper till when I finally left WayWorld (about 3 years later) was "What the hell IS wrong?".

We constantly heard how screwed up the BOT was and all the Corps and various and sundry leaders and how "spiritually" we were just all F-ed up, but specifics were damned scarce. All we ever got was a whole lotta vague. We were all "off the WURD" and Geer doubted if we'd ever get right again. BUT WHAT EXACTLY WAS WRONG? We were just supposed to know.

It was so childish and stupid. I still blush in utter embarassment for the fool I was played for. Honestly, to be middleaged and STILL playing a ridiculous, real-life game of "The Emperor's New Clothes", really it's almost shameful to be that credulous. How could I be that farking stupid.

Regret is a mutha-@#%ker...

I had the cap AND the T-shirt. I think everybody did on my street.

Funny how he played the same roll with the exact same costume for two entirely different characters, but what the hey, nobody knows for sure what either Daniel Boone or Davey Crockett looked like anyway.

R.I.P. Mr. Parker...

I've got a hunch this lady is one most men would cheerfully ruin their lives for (been there, done that). It doesn't get any better than this:

Hi Ken,

I'll bet you don't remember me, but I showed you how to "cope" baseboard mouldings once upon a time when - IIRC - you were having your home recarpeted. I worked in "WayBuilders" dept. (which was pretty much a skeleton crew by that time- '87-'89).

Anyway, FWIW, you always seemed like a nice folks to me, and your wife as well. Hell, most all the people I knew on staff were nice folks. It was just that we were all toxically credulous IMNSHO.

So yeah, welcome. Personally, I've pretty much relegated The Bible and any other Holy Writ to the same shelf as Dr. Seuss, Grimm's Fairy Tales, and Holistic Healing Methods. That is, I think it IS just superstitious fables written by an ignorant and primitive people and has no more real relevance to life today than any other garden variety mythology.

That said, if you want to spend your time researching and teaching stuff that's been worked over by more theologians and God-seekers than one can count, man, be my guest. I think it's an utter and complete waste of time, but then, I would. Doesn't your effort stike you as just a teensy bit redundant though? Un uh...

Well, it's not like relationships without the "cult" baggage are any more likely to survive. So, what the hell?

I think the only really logical or safe thing to do is to forego relationships entirely and plan on a life of self-abuse. Uh un...

No matter the denomination or even religion, God cannot be expected to explain Himself clearly and concisely. No, no, no! He MUST remain vague, cryptic, and inscrutable - otherwise it spoils all the fun...

Really it's more like win,win,win. They produce nothing, there's no real accountability (nobody comes back and says "Hey, this holy spirit is the wrong size!") and they pay no taxes on what they make. Just make vague promises of whistling and fishing in Heaven and pass the plate. Not a bad gig if you have no shame whatsoever...

O.K., this has little to do with the topic, but to my knowledge there is no newspaper around here with the name "Seattle Washington News". There's the "Seattle Post Intelligencer", but that's gone strictly online now, and then there's the "Seattle Times".

But I've only been here for 50 years now, maybe I'm missing something...

one time there was a corps week where people were invited to the microphone and i can't recall exactly what happened but all hell broke loose because people were honest

does anyone remember ? it was really something !!!!!! i'm still laughing about -- if only i had a frikking memory

***

truly, it was very sad

I think I was at that one. I think it was '85 or thereabouts. They set up the mic and then there was the usual litany of azz-licking lackies heaping praise on the BOD for their faithful stand and diligence, yada, yada. Then somebody got up and gave some sort of statement of how he saw things and asked an honest question of Craig or Don I think. The veins proceded to pop out in Craig's neck and he went into a blistering tirade about what a debased, unthankful, dipchit that guy at the microphone was, and shortly thereafter the meeting was dismissed and no mention was made of it again...

Sorry I don't remember any specifics, but I do remember being entertained by it all...

Geeze, if it wasn't for snarky comments, I'd have nothing to say at all...