Tzaia

I haven't been a part of TWI since 1987, so I can't speak for practices after that time, but my experience was that someone communicated numbers back and forth from HQ to twig leaders. We deliberately mailed our checks to HQ so that our twig leaders would not know how much we were giving. We never shared what our income was with anyone. Not that we weren't asked.

One of our children was born early and had a lot of health issues because of prematurity. When I went to our twig leaders to request prayer, I was told my baby's issues were a result of our "lack of giving". Once I recovered from that remark, I wanted to know how that person could possibly know how much we were giving as we never gave through the twig. That's when I was told that the information was communicated to them from HQ. I went home and called HQ and told them that under no circumstances was our giving anyone else's business.

That was the only time we were actually "confronted" about giving.

We only went once. I can't even remember what it was for - not a SNS - too far away to drive there and back. I was amazed at the size of the building for the area. When I walked into that auditorium and saw all those people in really bad blue suits and ill fitting clothes polishing brass and glass as if there was nothing better to do, I just thought "What in the heck were they thinking when they put all this in here?" And the looks on their faces. I halfway expected someone to slip me a note telling me they were being held against their will. I wasn't getting a more than conquerors vibe. It was more like I've been conquered. I found the whole experience very disturbing.

and to think that some people haven't figured out that all the programs in TWI were never designed to help one become a disciple of Christ, much less Christlike.

I only have anecdotal information. I do know that in AZ at an event I did not pay sales tax on bookstore purchases. I do know that in another state I did. When I asked about it that's what I was told. I can only surmise that AZ has different non-profit state laws that make it compelling for TWI to register there as a corporate entity, but not in other states. It is pretty clear from the Ohio Sec. of State documents that they are incorporated in OH, and their main entity has not switched over to AZ incorporation in 1980.

Like I backtracked earlier - it's clear that Ohio is the state of origin. It looks like all the other states (that I looked up so far) became foreign entities between 1980-82. Arizona doesn't have a sales tax that is paid by the consumer. Vendors are taxed on gross receipts, so the taxes are built into the price of the goods. That is how gasoline is sold in my particular state, which was a godsend when that change was enacted.

From my understanding they do not do this in every state, but in some states their state bookstore is a seperate incorporated entity. This allows locals to purchase books without paying sales tax.

That's really not the way it works. As an incorporated entity that offers goods as well as services, I am required by law to collect sales tax for the state I'm incorporated with for any taxable goods. I'm not required to collect tax for out-of-state sales. A business can operate in another state as a "foreign" entity and thereby collect sales tax in that state on behalf of that state. If the bookstores are operating as separate legal entities from TWI, the only reason why I can see that happening is it is easier to do so in that particular state, not to avoid collecting/paying state sales tax. TWI is an active foreign entity in every state I've looked up so far, except California, where it is acting as a DBA. What I cannot find is any registration in Ohio, which makes sense. (thanks, chockfull)

As an entity, I don't pay tax on any items purchased for resale, but I do have to give my reseller's tax ID to do so. Anyone who is tax-exempt has to present a tax-exempt form, which is kept on file.

Every document I've pulled up (so far) has coincided with the Arizona incorporation in 1980.

Another sidebar worth noting - TWI carefully worded its classes (complete with books) as "donations" to not only avoid paying state sales taxes on the books, which were included as part of the cost of the class, but to allow people who itemize to write off purchases as charitable contributions. This is standard operating procedure in church organizations.

Thanks Chockful I believe you, but I couldn't find a filing in Ohio. All organizations, non-profit or otherwise are supposed to be listed on the Secretary of State's website. I'm just curious. If you happen to have an answer that would be great, if you don't, that's fine too.

Anyway, someone suggested the cost of settling the Allen lawsuit could be calculated by comparing different financial statements. I don't think so, the information listed here is pretty vague. I believe we would need to see either a P/L statement or an earnings statement.

My understanding of incorporation is that it is only done in one state. Arizona may have been chosen due to the ease of incorporating a not-for-profit compared to other states, or because it was not an obvious choice - like Ohio. The original filing is in Ohio. All the others that I've looked up, except California, are registered as foreign entities, including Arizona (whose wording is confusing to the casual reader). California's entry looks like someone was on something when it was filed.

Just an FYI, not-for-profits are REQUIRED to provide 3 years of federal tax filings to anyone who asks for a reasonable fee. Not-for-profits are encouraged by the feds to have public financial disclosure statements.

vpw was fond of all sorts of wild ideas. Part of the purpose of having a Board of

Trustees, according to "Uncle Harry", was to curb in a few of the crazier ideas vpw

had and rein him in on the crazy stuff.

Among the crazy stuff that victor paul wierwille said that did get past was the idea that

twi would allow people to build houses on-grounds to retire on, do all the construction

work/pay all the construction work, all the furnishings, upgrades, etc,

then live in them until they died,

but that the way international would then get full ownership of the house.

(That was one of his ideas for "the Sunset Corps". "The Sunset Corps" never got off

the ground, possibly because few people were that stupid.)

Was that *his* idea, or was it an "upgrade" of Jim Jones' thing where older people gave him their homes and in return he gave them a nice place to live until they died?

There was another idea about some new invention of a new type of snowmobile,

then there was that idea he had about a restaurant....

and so on and so on. Few of his ideas were practical.

The materials used to construct some of the buildings- like "the Corps Chalet"

that lcm stole and called "the Presidents Home"- were completely wrong for the

weather for Ohio, and lots of money went in to build them, then to rebuild them

and try to mitigate the damage that would never have been there if vpw's plans

were competent.

The snow rescue snowmobile thing in Gunnison was about the most hare-brained thing I'd ever heard of for a "Christian" ministry to be spending money on. Didn't know about the other things - thankfully.

I'm not defending the man, but he was not about being practical. Practicality was not a virtue in TWI-land. My experience was that practicality was a sign of lack of believing. So the more outlandish an idea, the better it was from a believing perspective.

what site are you referring to?

STFONLINE.org

ORIGINAL works of fiction.

BTW, for anyone who has to cite according to APA format constantly (or MLA) this website rocks (but may make you FAST): SON OF CITATION MACHINE

I write a lot of papers, and this saves me a heckuvalota time.

APA Style was my best friend before I switched to MS Word 2007. After that I had to switch to Endnote.

I suppose that figure doesn't include "benefits" like health care, trips to warmer parts of the world to "teach da word" and such..

I believe it includes health care, but not trips. Trips would be part of the office expense.

I guess then we can assume that TWI's publications are works of fiction?

I don't think the "keys" were bad. I imagine, though, that had someone just given me a copy of How to Enjoy the Bible, I'd have done as well.

George

I have it. It's based on a set of premises which may or may not be correct an is (IMO) one of many possible viewpoints.

I'm still conflicted on whether to applaud people who are so all-fired sure about a future that is predicated on a prediction, or smack them upside the head.

I've done a bit more digging - JB is office manager. JaSp is assistant office manager.

At least 2 of the 5 board members are also paid staff. It's probably more like 3.

There are 4 additional full time staff members and 5 part time.

There are 3 women working in the office - 2 full time.

There are 2 contract laborers and outside computer consulting. It appears that the inside guy is gone.

Salaries, wages, and benefits totaled $555,300 last year. While there was no breakdown of who gets how much, the AVERAGE wage including benefits was $46,275. Draw your own conclusions.

Isn't pretty much anywhere one is sent is like going to hell?

"I'll be forever grateful for the accuracy of god's word that I received in TWI."

How many times have I (we) heard (read) that one?

Might I suggest that the gratitude is misplaced? Might I suggest that the "keys" we received were the wrong set of keys?

Just sayin'.

MP's job title is "Executive Assistant to the CEO".

JB's job title was/is(?) Assistant to Dan Gallagher (who is the CEO).

There does not appear to be any overlap in job duties.

It was my understanding that JB was being groomed for "management" and mentored by Dan himself. Maybe he still is, but it does not look like he got a promotion.

STF is not being archived as of April 2008 - not that it's any big deal, but it does make long-term comparisons a bit harder.

MJ is nowhere to be found.

JaSp, who if I remember right was a JAL hater, is taking on a more prominent role.

Here's the case concerning MG and JB:

http://tinyurl.com/m8qc8q

This appears to be closed.

The case between JAL and the G's appears to be open.

https://www.civicnet...courts/civil_ia

Not anymore. Yesterday it showed it had been Re-docketed. Today it showed it as dismissed or disposed.

It's my understanding that the population of active TWI members is diminishing. If TWI has a finance department I'm sure they see the trouble ahead.

Seeing it is one thing. Admitting it is another. Doing something is even more problematic. Most hard-core TWIers or offshooters are up to their eyeballs in denial.

They should just go back to the way they did it in the early years--------throw darts at a dartboard.

Whaaat? and leave it to "chance" or gasp - the holy spirit?

NEVER once in my almost 20 years in TWI did I ever hear anyone pray for God's will to happen.

Kinda flies in the face of "not my will, but your will be done," doesn't it?

I have decided I am just going to say that that money was what we had to pay for my husband and I to find each other and have our daughter. That is one thing the Way did that was a good thing for me. Without them I never would have met my husband (the love of my life), and my daughter (the light of my life) would never have been born. If I look at it that way, it's not so bad.

You can't really put a price on that.

However, lessons learned are rarely cheap.

I'll be believing for your deliverance.

Absent Christ followed by praying and worshiping Jesus is not idolatry. Law of Believing. Then Body - Soul - Spirit. Dispensations<-- recent

Things I never bought into:

Tithe

Devil possession

The "household"

Things I no longer care about:

Trinity or not - this was huge

Whether dead is dead

bible inerrancy

I remember being told by one WC jerk that he wouldn't remember any of the bad thing he had done when we were gathered together becuase we would have perfectly renewed minds. I think that is how he dealt with the guilt from being such a jerk for God. I never understood that if we were going before the judgement seat.

How convenient.

Date & Switch----That's what got me to sign The Green Card.

Were you sad yet "grateful" for the "word you were taught"?