JeffSjo

Hi cinderpelt, this is jeffsjo.

I'm thankful for the topic you brought up and I'd like to share a few relavent experiences I 've had and things I've heard because the whole topic seems huge in a doctrinal sense and also close to home for me personally.

One thing I remembered hearing from someone about the old days was a habit of blaming the one being troubled by a devil spirit for the trouble they were in. I don't know for sure if this was a widespread view or the personal view of the one I heard talking about it but it didn't sound like there was any love in his telling of it, even rejoicing in the fact that someone was supposedly harrassed by one during a twig fellowship and that eventually led to that person leaving the fellowship of believers. The guy telling it had a smirk on his face as if the simple telling of the tale made him somebody. All I could wonder was why wasn't the one with the trouble delivered.

I was a part of a fellowship(after my days with TWI) that blamed me for two people that were troubled in such a fashion and one of them was my wife. I look back at the situation and see that what was really broken was the love and trust that should have existed in the fellowship to seek God's answer to the problem. The real problem was that there was no good fellowship between leadership and myself. Part of that was the result of me constantly(more or less) calling them on bad biblical workmanship and false prophesies. The other part was the result of them holding certain accusations against me that they never proved or confronted me with; after a few years of that, fellowship is pretty strained in a small group. I could not help my wife because there was pretty much no trust between us, and the situation between me and leadership was such that it pulled me and my wife apart. They never even told me what my wife said was going on with her when I was asleep. I am quite certain that I could have been part of the solution if my wife would have trusted me in almost any sense. After all, even Jesus Christ couldn't do much in his own hometown, and I'm pretty sure their unbelief amazed him.

I guess my experience shows me that when there is not a good working fellowship in the church and someone in authority chooses to blame instead of seeking deliverace it can get pretty ugly. Nobody gets it right in this field without walking with God and there are a lot of different ways for it to go wrong.

Thre was a lot more going on than what I'm able to post here. Some of the issues with my wife go all the way back to 1987 when we were dating, and trouble beteen leadership and me go back to the early 90"s when I was a young believer with some big problems. I hope what I've shared is helpful. Maybe it's good for me to be able to dicuss it. There don't seem to be too many places where this kind of thing can be discussed in a loving and helpful manner.

I can say with certainty that I know how it feels to be "tagged" with a false accusation. For me the biggest loss seems to be the loss to the whole fellowship when one person who has something to give is taken out. I mean we're one body, right. The thief cometh to steal..... If anybody is taken out and cannt give where he has grace to give then the loss is not just to the individual, but to the whole church.

hi paw, this is jeffsjo. I'm glad you posted this for questions, especially as I have a couple. I,d like to know how to post a message of a more ptivate nature to a member. I understand the need for privacy on the net even though I'm new to it in general. All a person has to do is listen to the news to understand that.

For the kind of fellowship that I think may develope here it seems there may be a need to talk to someone or leave a message for someone that I wouldn't be comfortable posting publically. I'm not sure if that kind of capability is built into this site and if it is I certainly don't know what it is or how to do it. If you could get back to me on this I would certainly appreciate it.

Thanks

Hi Nero, I hope you're making progress with your seeking answers to you unsettling thoughts. I have no doubt in my mind that wondering whether or not we're speaking truth in any setting is a good question, perhaps one we'd all be better off thinking about after we've speaking.

My best answer to your question is that we are not blashpheming when we're speaking by the spirit of God as His word teaches. Everybody that spoke the scriptures into existence by the spirit of God spoke for him too.

There is a lot about what you were taught in terms of practice that I don't know because I wasn't there. Since my days with twi I've tweeked a few of the details but nothing's changed my mind that these manifestations are scriptural and a really GOOD thing when done with a heart that's seeking to love God's people.

I hope things are well with you.

Hi sunnyfla,

For me to it's obvious that Jesus Christ had half brothers and sisters, and I think I can relate to the need to develope new manners of talking to people. One thing I think about often is, "What's the profit in this conversation for them." Am I adding to their confusion, am I just looking to show off what I know, will this talk actually bless them?, are some of the things I consider. I'm sure there are many other things that would serve the function as a "check up from the neck up" as one is speaking God's word.

Right now some of the things I'm considering the most is that as far as speaking God's word is that it's not about convincing them as much as it is about pleasing God. But thinking that in no way means that I have the right to speak the truth in any manner except love. Please note that I'm saying that I'm thinking about it and definately not that I've mastered anything.

I hope things go well with you sunnyfla.

Thank you everyone for the great responses. I'm able to get to the computer today,much sooner than I expected. :) But I probably won't be here long. I think the pictures looked very tasty, it was very easy to almost taste them. I do not know how to send pictures back, but hopefully it won' take me to long to learn. If there is a way to privatly respond to response postings I would like to learn that but there is no time for me to do that now. Thanks again everybody.

ps I was just messing around with trying to add a picture and now I'm not sure what this will look like when it's posted,,,,,,,wel here it goes.

I am not only new to this site but am also very new to computers in general and am only muddling through even now. Such terms as "post","e-mail", & "chat room" are very challenging to me, especially as far as using these things. My net access may be limited to weekly or even less often so I'll give this a try. I am very thankful to be a PFAL grad, and I am thankful for Dr. Wierwille. My perspective is as a person who did not see the darker things that obviously went on perhaps farther inside the workings of the ministry than I ever saw.

A lot of what I learned in the classes has stood the test of time as far as I'm concerned. As far as the hard times go, speculating on what went on back then, for me, seems foolish and dangerous. However,I don't think any situation as it may relate to anyone I know, or get to know can't be dealt with. It just has to be very personal in order to not speak about things I really don't know anything about.

My most recent experiences have been very hard on me, but I do think I've come out of them with a clear conscience. It did cost me a lot though. In many respects my life is broken. But the experiential knowledge I've gained from being on the recieving end of some very bad treatment has me thinking that perhaps I have something to give. I don't seem like "very much" by any objective angle I can think of, but my experiences haven't ruined my love for God's word. And I believe that that's enough for God to work with, even yet.

My observation is a simple one, God's word is painfully honest about his peoples shortcomings, I think that is very easy to read but hard to handle when the faults belong to self, leadership, or anyone that is closer to me than words in a book.

I hope my first ever posting anywhere on anything isn't blatantly offensive to anyone, I'm really just looking for good fellowship.