happyheart

This was also during the same timeframe that every single person was REQUIRED to submit

an agenda of their plans for the entire week.

Filled out in 15-minute increments.

And if the actual day ran differently, you were expected to file an update with the corrections.

And this didn't chase ALL the people out. (Some, but not all.)

It's like the story that says that if you put a frog in a pot of water, and increase the temperature

very, very slowly, he won't notice the difference and jump out when it gets hot.

Yuck...fifteen minute increments. I had to fill those out but not in 15 minute increments. But it was still a PIA. And then there was a time I had to send in a weekly report of what I did and what I learned. Another PIA. This was all to keep God's hedge of protection around us. Keep us safe blah blah blah blah blah.

But here's the irony-as a SINGLE FEMALE FC I was called by my MALE LC in the middle of the night because a believer in my twig had been arrested. He said it was my responsibility to go and bail him out even though they lived closer to the jail than I did. So as a single young woman, I went to the seediest part of the city in the middle of the night to find a seedy bail bond guy then to go and post bail; to get this man out of jail. Took hours then I had to go to work the next morning exhausted. (This LC was full time paid staff and watched the Young and the Restless during the day with his wife. :wacko: )

I guess God's hedge of protection really was around me. It protected me when this lazy A**h*** sent me into an incredibly dangerous situation. But hey, at least he was safe at home monitoring all those reports.....

Are you certain that we didn't grow up in the same family?

Well, it is funny. Your earlier post where you said you were a Christain before and even had the speaking in tongues thing? Me too.

Ahhhh, yes, the internet can be a valuable thing!

Here's a link to study materials some of our Greasespotters use.

Here's a great review of the PFAL class.... an excellent place for baby / bathwater questions.

WayDale and Greasespot have been invaluable to me and, if it weren't for WayDale I might still be sitting in a fellowship somewhere grinding my molars down to stubs and wishing there was some way I could put my finger on all that was wrong with TWI.

HappyHeart, I think our personal background affects most all of our decisions in life and how we react/handle decisions.

Don Miguel Ruiz wrote a series of books on "The Four Agreements" and in those books he talks about how we believe what others tell us about ourselves, when really is is only their perception of those things. However, by believing that what others see in us is true, we behave in such a manner as to "fit" into their image of us.

For some of us, TWI found us when we were at our weakest, at a crossroads or just plain fed up with life. They swooped in and took advantage. Not all of us were taken advantage of this way, but some of us were.

Thanks for the info Belle, I'll look it up. The book sounds interesting too. I was confused about what to do with my life, not knowing where I fit in. They seemed so sure and I wanted that too. I wanted answers. But my background was why I kept putting up with all the insanity. I have this strong sense of loyalty and stay in relationships longer than I should sometimes.

Speaking of the net, I agree that it is a great tool. I was not around when Craig was claiming it was devilish.

Craig and many others had great reasons to fear the internet. It took away the control they wanted over everyone. It also made it possible for everyone to see some of the stupid or vicious letters they sent to people.

So he did the only thing he knew; he acted out until we were dismissed.

He did you a favor. Also, it's good he brought that with him-he knew to stand up for himself. Good for him.

The best thing I can think of to do with troubled children is pray for them in a good light and then just love the daylights out of them!

Right on. You got it. It takes time to recover from what your son went through and it sounds like he's getting there. He's going to be just fine. He's a treasure you found.

My greatest regret is that we didn't leave much sooner. Son and I have talked and he has forgiven me, but forgiving myself for not standing up for him better is going to take a while.

WG

Just the fact that you have been open and honest with him is so great. If you had tried to pretend it didn't happen he would probably be a very angry kid today. I know what you mean about having a hard time forgiving yourself for not standing up for him. You were doing the best you knew, he seems to understands that. I made mistakes with not standing up for one of my kids-I had become confused about some things (non twi related) then realized I was being jerked around. I too had a hard time forgiving myself. But I'm fierce about protecting all of my kids now-and that has helped me to forgive myself.

Those leaders in charge of the FWC really showed just how ill equiped they were for all their bragging and self promotion. Talked about healing but were clueless about it. They were so inept they couldn't even help a hurting child. Rather than acknowledge how dumb they were they blamed the child. What a bunch of cowards.

You sound like an awesome Parent to me, Watered Garden.

My story is a lot milder than some. I got in because I wanted answers. I wanted to be right.

twi convinced me they were right, and had the answers.

When twi convinced me they weren't right, and didn't have the answers, I left.

Pretty fast.

It helped a LOT that this was in 1989, when 80% of the active members got up and

left. Locally, everybody I'd hung out with had left at the same time.

(I would have left without them, but this made it easier.)

I still thought what I'd learned was the best out there.

Of course, I was young and foolish.

And the internet has REALLY made learning otherwise a LOT easier.

I'm still a Christian, and I think Christians worldwide should consider the internet

to have IMMENSE benefits, both for communication, and information.

Of course, that's just my opinion-everyone else has theirs.

Thanks Wordwolf. It seems like you have probably always had a strong sense of self and been a clear thinker. I admire that. It was smart of you to leave when you saw it wasn't right. I'm intrigued with why a lot of us did not do the same. I remember being impressed with how right the twi seemed and thought I'd really found the place with the answers. I too am still a Christian. Over the last several years I have really enjoyed other Christians and have made some great friendships. It was very liberating to stop thinking they had nothing to offer just because they were not with twi. I've seen how stupid and limiting that mentality was. I agree with what you said about the internet. I think it also can help people from getting isolated. Thanks again.

I feel sorry for the kids who had to live with the fall out from these personality doctrines. I remember DM once saying in a teaching that L had come home late because the teacher had kept them longer than she said they would. DM called the teacher and told her that because of what the teacher did L was grounded. L got in trouble for something she couldn't control and DM was adamant about her being on time anyway. Yuck. I remember sitting there thinking I would never do that to one of my kids, yet there were other people there nodding in agreement. I could only imagine how angry my daughters would be if I tried to pull that on them. <_<

For what it's worth, happyheart, I don't think your post was off topic at all.

It describes a perfect example of the subject at hand.

IMO

Thanks Waysider I appreciate that. I want to make sure I'm not being a boor....they're terrible to have at parties.

Happened to us too, Copenhagen. Post FWC we were told to dis-adopt our son, who was having a lot of behavioral problems. Seems LCM had decided that anyone who had trouble getting pregnant should "focus their energies in other directions" and no longer would he permit adoption. This also had to do with a WC grad's difficult pregnancy and subsequent death due to complications.

However, several years before all this happened, we had adopted our son. The "no adoption" decree had not been doctrine then, not that we would have cared all that much. Now, all of a sudden, we were supposed to have known of this decision by the Great Man of God, even before he made the decision, and were being held responsible and told to throw a troubled child out like a mad dog.

What heartlessness. What an unreasonable bunch of boogers they were!

WG

PS: please be assured we DID NOT comply!

Wow, Watered Garden. Just when I think I've heard it all, I hear something worse. That's disgusting they would tell you to dis-adopt your son. Who the hell do these people think they are? What about the teaching where adoption was a bigger commitment than having natural children and that you could give away your natural child before you could give away an adopted child? That really p---es me off. I have step children and if someone ever told me to get rid of them I would be furious. I'm so sorry to hear they did that to you and I hope your son never finds out.

I think I saw the height of this stupidity when I was in Family WC at Rome City.

WG

Hi Watered Garden,

Your salsa story brought back some memories...

I once was vollunteered to put together packets for WIB. The first day the main guy in charge of this brought in boxes of of papers to be put in folders. When we started to assemble the packets, I realized that materials were not for WIB. It was stuff for welcoming people to HQ and the rules of staying at Founders Hall. I pointed this out to the guy in charge. He said that we needed to keep putting those packets together until we were given further instruction. I went along with it for a while, but it started to bother me since we were supposedly under a deadline to have the WIB packets sent off. So I brought it up again and his response was that this had to be right because Em had given him this stuff and she wouldn't have made a mistake. He then said that the letter welcoming people to HQ simply meant that wherever the Trustees went, the heart of HQ went with them even at a hotel. I started to roll my eyes and walk out to go and find Em and ask her. He followed me out, grabbed my arm and told me that the sin of rebellion was as witch craft. We spent the rest of the day putting together the wrong packets. We were called back in later that night when it was discovered the wrong packets had been put together and had to start all over again. We were there really late. Stupid.

I think I got off track of the subject.... sorry

I see Greasespot as sort of a rehab for a lot of people, the informal discussions we can have about our past might help restore many for the future. To censure those who are recovering would not be supportive in our little “group therapy”, those who would say get over it, or lets just talk about the good times, would be “blocking”, and not contributing to good sharing. Any good rehab will always bring up the past and take the skeletons out of the closet.

Very good point. It is rehab for many. Before I posted here I read things that were healing and helpful. And funny, like "you know you're in a cult if.." that really cracked me up and laughter is the best medicine.

I believe most leaders in twi were very fearful to have honest conversations. They avoided it all costs.

Tried to make it seem like you were having a renewed mind problem for wanting to even discuss something that had occured. Saying things like "What's the profit?" As if you were wasting your time and theirs with something "negative". Like they had such a spiritually renewed mind and you did not.

Turning it around on you.

But then acknowledgement may lead to accountability and some of them couldn't fathom owning their behavior. When there was no choice but to acknowledge something within the twi, they still tried to control it. Like when those tapes came out telling us about Craig affairs and then resignation etc...We had no idea when we arrived that we would be listening to that. We all sat around the table and listened to the tape. Then we were all given two minutes to share about what we thought. No warning, no time to let it sink in, no time to think. For a group of people who wouldn't dare criticise the MOG. So we all basically said how much we loved him and made excuses for him. Blaming all the spiritual pressure he was under. The other tapes that followed was pretty much the same drill. We all got two minutes to deal with it. Then it was never to be brought up again. One leader even said "don't expect any apologies." That was all the respect we were given for having been loyal to this man and then having the rug pulled out from under us.

I remeber telling my roommate later that I wished I had said something in my two minutes that was honest, showed some anger. But it took me a long time to feel free enough to do that. Too much fear of reprisal. I'm very thankful that GS is here for people. It's OK to talk about things and necessary. It's just history. No need to be afraid of it unless we let it repeat in our own lives. Thanks for the rehab.

Funny how you just described my life (not including my parents). I always thought that it was strange that the youngest should be the peace maker. But there it is. And to your question; Yes my past played a big part in why I stayed and how I endured. But in like manner what I endured helped me get the job that I now have. All things work together for good for those that love God.

Welcome to the Spot!

Thanks Eyesopen. You just kind of described my life too. I am the youngest and what I endured also helped me get the job I have. Interesting. For as difficult as the past was, it led me to the life I have now and my own family which I wouldn't trade for anything.

Thanks for sharing.

Hi Everyone,

I was wondering if any of you feel that your own personal backgrounds contributed to why you joined twi in the first place, or why you continued to stay even when things became increasingly bizarre.

For example, I grew up in a family where it was expected that I be the peace maker. I had family members that were acadamy award winning drama queens. Constantly exploding and exagerating stuff. There was unreasonable expectations, put downs and guilt trips. I was constantly running around trying to "fix" their problems and make them happy. Sometimes I could make things seem right, but it never lasted long and then the process would start all over again. It always seemed to be at my expense and they resented any attempts I made to enhance my own life.

So I think this may be why I was not alarmed like I should have been at some of the things that occured in the twi. Why I kept thinking things would get better. Why I was so loyal. Why I could endure all of that verbal abuse and face meltings and still come back for more. Why I did not ever make myself a priority and allowed leaders to convince me my needs did not matter.

(Well, having said all this I must say that I still loved my family and I know they loved me. There were many good times also and I am thankful for many things. Families can be complicated, but within the dysfunction there can still be closeness and love. I still try to see the good side to them even though their over whelming personalities sometimes made doing that difficult)

Anyone have any thoughts for this thread?

Thanks,

Happyheart

You can click on the little plus at the right hand side at the top of this page where it says shout

Thank White Dove.

Hi there, happyheart

All you have to do is type in the box under the shouts and then click on the word "shout" that is directly to the right of the box. There's a "smilies" option to the left.

If you want to edit a "shout", click on the "ShoutOut" in the upper left and it will put the shouts into a page form where you will find an edit option.

Thanks Waysider.

Wow, lots of new people at the booths lately.

Welcome!!

Welcome HappyHeart!

Thanks Belle. I've read some of your posts. Well written and well said.

Its where you shout at the computer because of a misplaced post.

OK. Thanks. So how do I shout at the computer and how do I read what everyone else is shouting?

Hi,

What is Shout it Out and how does it work?

Thanks.

(qoute)

We hear how paranoid some of TWI leadership was ...

I remember being paranoid myself actually. Over reacting to every day occurences and deeming them "spiritual" But looking back it all seems so silly now.

I'm sure I'll see a few of my posts edited, as they should be... but I have a hard time seeing other people attacked on not jumping in... guess it's the opposite of what I was expected to do in twi...

but I my main point of wonderment is: some people refuse to believe people were victimized, and want to talk about the grand times they had, so why don't they just start their own threads? posting in a thread with the intention of correcting people's testimonies tends to put them on guard. in twi if leadership told you "this is why you did it" or "yeah I reamed the guy but he was possessed" you didn't question if you wanted to stay, and of course we wanted to stay because leaving meant horrible consequences... so we're out now and find a place where we can talk about what happened to us, but some people don't want to listen. that's ok, but they don't need to be defenders of twi's integrity, either. maybe they can just show some respect and let us talk. that would be nice.

I'm trying to respect the experiences of people who had a good time in twi, after all, everyone's experiences were different. some were much worse than mine, and I almost lost my son. some had great lives, I guess. they were the lucky ones... but I still wonder why they're here if it was all puppies and rainbows.

Potato,

I wonder the same thing because it reminds me of how we were shut down if we tried to have an honest conversation about what was going on. We were either reamed out at worst or at least dismissed with "what's the profit?" If the person couldn't use those two things to avoid acknowledging what happened then they would claim amnesia. An exercise in frustration to try to get any type of resolution with these people. I think it's curious that some people still imitate that kind of behavior.

But then the people who let me talk and honestly acknowledged that things were wrong were a different story. I found that I was able to let it go and not be angry about it anymore, no matter how bad their behavior had been. I didn't feel the need to talk about it anymore because we had handled it.

For me, I don't appreciate it when people would rather have me think I'm crazy and imagined everything than just say something simple like "yeah, that wasn't right."

But sometimes people don't have that in them to give, for various reasons.

Maybe they learned.

Alarmingly large numbers of people who left twi DIDN'T.

(Most, I think, DID learn, either immediately or eventually.)

"When the Nazis came for the communists,

I remained silent;

I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,

I remained silent;

I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,

I did not speak out;

I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out." - Hans Neimoller (translated.)

That's deep. And how true. I'm going to have to look up Hans Neimoller.

Thanks Wordwolf.

What they said what they did, this topic got me thinking about a post I saw here on GS. A woman and her son had been treated visciously by a leader and then M&AD. From what she said, I'm pretty sure I know who this leader was. These leaders had a son who ended up being M&AD so they resigned because they refused to M&A their own son. Couldn't practice what they preached. Hopefully they changed for the better after they saw what it was like to be in someone elses shoes. I don't know what happened to them.

Welcome, happyheart.

Sounds like they said they cared, and that they were supposed to care,

but what they did was heartless and UNcaring.

Not everyone has such a horror story (I don't, WD didn't), but that doesn't change

what they did to you.

At the time, I guess it was a horror story because it was well, horrifying. But it was a long time ago and I now have the advantage of looking back on this event that changed the course of my life through different eyes. At the time, I really believed that we should go to our leaders with everything. Interestingly before I did, another believer warned me to be careful who I shared my heart with. I agreed with this believer, yet when the time came I talked to this leader even though alarm bells were going off in my head. I really wanted what she was portraying to be true-so I went for it and then Bam! But I was at least able to move and get away from this person. The next year people who had "issue's" in this area were told to stay so they could be under the over sight of this awful couple. Eeeesh!

Welcome, happyheart.

It's up to you to decide your own opinion (Gee, already with the non-twi stuff! :) )

but it often seems that-when someone posts about something someone bad in twi did something,

someone else IMMEDIATELY comes along to derail the thread completely, or to try to

bury the information in a flurry of posts, generally claiming the person's post didn't reflect

reality. They rarely come right out and honestly say "I think you're lying", but the intent

is the same, just phrased with prettier words. Then they can honestly say they never called

the person a liar, although the words they used said they thought the person wasn't telling the

truth. (In effect, they called them a liar, but didn't use the WORD "liar" to do so.)

Some people (the ones who are believed to do that) will be quick to say that they're trying to

support "the truth" (whatever that means to them), and that they are trying to uphold some

noble standard, and are immediately set upon whenever they speak, or when they recount

some pleasant memory.

Which is true?

Are they both wrong?

Well, you should read things and decide for yourself.

(I say the first paragraph is correct, but others would not.)

Thanks Word Wolf, sounds good.

I experienced something along the same lines. I think the woman who did it to me loved to hurt people. she seemed to get a kick out of the power.

I'm glad you're here, happyheart.

I experienced something along the same lines. I think the woman who did it to me loved to hurt people. she seemed to get a kick out of the power.

I'm glad you're here, happyheart.

Thanks Potato, I'm glad to be here.

Hi Everyone,

I am new here and I wanted to thank you all for sharing. Potato, you seem to be very intelligent like you belong to Menza or something. I really enjoy your posts. There is one thing I don't understand though. Is White Dove a representitive for the way International? What about Bumpy and Pond? Do they still fellowship with the way? Potato, is that why you respond to them so much? Just wondering. Don't want to insult anyone, just trying to understand. I feel ike this web site is very healing to those who have been hurt by the Way International. Thanks for having this web site and for all that you contribute. It has truly helped me.