happyheart

Thanks for explaining Wing. I had a hard time explaining what I was trying to get at in that post. Later I thought I could have made it shorter by asking "What upsets you more about your involvement with twi? Top leaders, leaders you were directly involved with, your family, other believers or yourself? I probably come across as pretty mild at times. It's because I am. I was angry for a long time-but I'm not anymore, for the most part. It took a while. I'm still working through why I allowed myself to be abused and used. Why I sacrificed my well being and friendships with people who cared about me to please people who did not care about me. I think it's important no matter what stage we are all at that we discuss what happened. We can help each other. We were in the same boat for various reasons. It helps me to explore that. Have a great day everyone

??????? Don't know what you mean by that.

I was thinking that I don't hate LcM. I don't appreciate the damage he caused by any means. But I think the bigger problem was the people closest to him that encouraged his insane behavior. If my husband ranted and raved out of control in public, I would do something about it or hopefully our friends and family would do something. I would at the very least be embarrassed, not standing by applauding. It seems like LcMmOg was unstable with a narcisistic personality disorder. I think the people closest to him let his behavior go unchecked because they were busy promoting their own agenda's behind the scenes. He provided an effective distraction. He wasn't the brightest crayon in the box and I think they knew that and used it to their advantage. (Seriously, didn't he clue into the fact that just about nobody in this world thinks preachers having affairs is acceptable? I know he watched the news. How dumb do you have to be?) I just shake my head at how I believed he was the MOG and that I followed his whacky advice. But if I think about some WC leaders and what they did-I actually hold them more responsible for the viciousness that went on. Instead of being friends, they were users and abusers. They had closer access and used what they knew about good people against them. I remember the crazy rantings from teachings, but the actions I saw leaders take were the hardest to get over. Especially some limb coords I knew-they were horrible human beings. I know some believers who are mostly angry at top leadership and some who are mostly angry at their families. Just wonder what the feelings are others have on this.

Hi Everyone, A friend asked me to join this with her. It's a best selling book by Eckhart Tolle that a lot of people say is wonderful. I skimmed through my friends book today but I need to buy a copy and read it this week if I'm going to do it. The online class starts Monday 3/3/08 and goes for 10 weeks. It's an interactive web event and both Eckhart and Oprah will be taking questions. There will be a chat room and discussion groups. Is anyone else going to do this? Does anyone have experience with this type of internet class and/or Eckhart Tolle? Thanks.

It's amazing that they couldn't see what wonderful friends they had in front of them. Really, for as bad as it was for you-they are the real loosers. They could have relaxed and had some wonderful believers as friends. I bet she was influenced by all the wrong doctrine on child rearing and suspicious since believers were not encouraged to adopt. I'm glad you have a grandson. It's awesome being a grandma, isn't it? God bless you Watered garden.

I can see where that would be difficult to determine at times. Or if some of it was just every day kid stuff that most people go through. Issue's can sure get clouded when inept busy bodies interfere with a family. But you're right, love covers all of that and the sin of leaders who abused the trust of faithful believers and their children. Seems like your son knew the Nazi Way Corps were nuts. Probably smarter than most adults running the show at the time. Good for him.

I thought this was a very good post. I have wondered the same things, because even though we are doing OK now, financially we are years and years behind our peers. I worry about the opportunities my kids may have missed also. Thanks for sharing, well put.

Makes me wonder if LCM's kids mark and avoid him, if he is getting a taste of his own medicine. They were so harsh against families-as if twi were going to take care of us in our old age. Thanks Rascal.

I tend to click on the heart icon whenever I post. I like hearts. I may have inadvertantly put one in the wrong place. Jonny, I think I may have met you. Were you the Rev. with a really funny sense of humour?

Hi Watered Garden. I have found your previous posts very insightful. But do you mean that your relationship with him is ruined now? I thought from a previous post, all was forgiven between you. I hope that's the case. You seem like such a wonderful parent to me, and he a wonderful son. I like that your son fought against them while you were in the family corps. I think he did you all a favor by acting out. It sounds like he could see through all the bs that was going on. He is a treasure that you found. Those leaders in the family Corps were so inept to deal with a child that they tried to cover up their stupidity by telling you to get rid of him. What a bunch of cowards and idiots. I'm glad you adopted him and stuck by him. Do you ever wish you could tell those morons off? God bless you WG. I think the Qualtieri family had it all together. I still think of things I learned from them. But from a post from Peter's daughter-he was treated terribly on his death bed. He didn't deserve that.

I'm wondering what you all think about how your involvement in twi affected your kids. Are some of your kids still with twi? Is your relationship strained with them if they are? Were they mad at you about your involvement and have things healed between you? Or do they pretty much not care? If you were a kid raised in twi, are you angry with your parents for it or did you understand their intentions? I hope it's not too personal a question to ask. I'm just wondering about the potential long term impact on the kids.

LOL-that would be perfect. But seriously-does anyone besides me think that Kelsey Grammar (Frasier) looks like Loy?

Actually, it depends who the listener is. Some people are able to have a conversation with someone about the twi and not label them bitter. These kind of people have been helpful to me. Like if we discuss what happened at Pearl Harbor, doesn't mean I am bitter against the Japanese. It's just discussing history. Sometimes I wonder if it's a residual affect from all of the years of leaders accusing us of not "renewing our minds" or "being negative" whenever we tried to have an honest conversation about something. I'm not bitter, but I am fascinated with why we all said and did such stupid things and thought we were being Godly. It's therapeutic to talk over the "history" of twi.

Well put George.

I knew a limb coord and his wife who watched a ton of TV. Law and Order, the X-files, and Friends were their favourite. (There were many more in addition to these that they watched) But they really were into the Young and the Restless. The husband once told me that watching this soap together made them closer. He even said he admired the character of Ryan McNeil and had learned things about being a man from him. I'm not kidding. Yet they were the first to rage on about how others spent their time. I didn't have the time they did to watch TV. But they'd give me an earful about wisely stewerding my time if I wanted to visit with my family on a holiday. They were both full time paid staff, and they often required us to come over to clean their house and babysit. (For free of course) I worked full time, and ran a twig and attended all those twi meetings but they wanted me to have an "opportunity to give." The idea for stringing chairs is a symptom of OCD.

We also had to be up and "in the word" by 7:00 AM. My Wow brother (also the family coord) would occasionally throw open my bedroom door (a room I shared with my WOW sister) to make sure we were really awake. If we had fallen asleep, he would yell at us about our commitment. One morning he threw the door open to catch us and my WOW sister happened to be naked. He was mortified and never tried to catch us again. What a bonehead.

I remember something funny that happened. When I was a WOW- I think we had to witness forty hours a week. (But I don't remember how many hours for sure.) My WOW family coord. had us write down how many hours we had accumulated. One week I was two hours short. It was about 9:00 pm on the last night of the week and he was angry I would be two hours short. He told me we needed to go out so I could keep my commitment. But the problem was, I wasn't felling well and I was exhausted. I didn't think I could stay awake. I tried to tell him this but he told me to renew my mind. So we went out door to door. One man, a jehovah witness let us in. He was very nice to us. We were sitting in his living room talking to him when I fell asleep on his couch. My WOW brother kept shaking me awake. But I would just fall back asleep. So this man just finally put a blanket on me while he and my WOW brother debated things about God. It was 11:45 when my WOW brother drug me home. He actually thought this guy the jehovah witness was the wierd one. I thought we were wierd for going over there so late and for me falling asleep on the couch of a perfect stranger. But my WOW brother said that what was important was that I had kept my commitment. (I slept through most of it.) We saw this man again, and he wasn't interested in comming to our twig. What a shock. LOL

I've been thinking about something concerning this so*ers* website. I hope it's not just another turf war. Like the relatives of VPW thinking they should have the rights to the 5 corpse pricipals. If the thing is born of spite or entitlement issues then it will be just another ego fest. Maybe the kid is trying to honor his Grandfather, who knows? Some of my experiences with twi leadership remind me of a kid in the middle of two immature parents divorcing. Listening to leaders boo hoo about each other and resenting people who don't follow them. I just know I don't have it in me to be involved in that kind of drama anymore. Too much time was spent playing follow the leader.

So Mr. Lingo, Are you going to sign up for SO*ERs? I understand what your saying that we shouldn't assume the guy has a bad heart-he may very well have good intentions. But on the other hand, you don't really know much about it yourself. Maybe you don't realise this but you kind of sound like you're promoting it. Do you want to take on that kind of responsibility? What if you do inadvertantly encourage someone before you understand it yourself? So Mr. Lingo, Are you going to sign up for SO*ERs? I understand what your saying that we shouldn't assume the guy has a bad heart-he may very well have good intentions. But on the other hand, you don't really know much about it yourself. Maybe you don't realise this but you kind of sound like you're promoting it. Do you want to take on that kind of responsibility? What if you do inadvertantly encourage someone before you understand it yourself?

Not worked up at all. Just thought it was icky.

Hi Jonny Lingo, I agree with you that we fared a lot better than the people who died at Jonestown and I'm thankful. But I do remember thinking at one point when I was so conflicted that it would be a relief if they wanted us to drink the kool aid because then it would give me a reason to leave without shame and guilt and convince others to leave too. I know that sounds really wierd, but whenever a tragedy happened to people after they left twi-that's what they attributed it to. That leaving the twi was the reason calamity occured. It was very manipulating. I watched the History channel last week and there was a documentary "Jonestown-Paradise Lost." They interviewed a lot of people including the son of Jim Jones. Like I said, I agree with you that we fared better than them. But I did recognise something. Jim Jones did remind me of Craig to some extent. Jim Jones thought everyone needed to go down with him. Craig thought anyone who didn't "stand" with him deserved the worse life had to offer. They both had incredible ego's and they didn't seem to care that satifying their ego's came at the expense of others. Just some thoughts.

It was a problem for women too. I was never succesful in the athletic world. So all of those teachings where using athletics as a point of reference didn't work for me. I couldn't relate to that. It didn't inspire believing images of victory for me because I'd never had any and didn't understand sports all that well. Variety is good. I get a lot out of some TV evangelists that talk about personal every day things I can relate to or have experienced. Things need to be mixed up if it's going to work for everyone. Speaking from the B string......

LOL. It was like we were all unpaid amway reps.

I learned the hard way that going to leadership for help was a disaster. They just ended up using whatever it was against you. Some help that was. I remember Craig saying "Why would you pay someone $200. an hour to care about you?" (Referring to therapists) I guess it's better to pay 18 % of your income to have people b--tch slap you when you admit your not happy. :huh: